Before The Devil Knows You’re Dead
Mozart Gabriel
00:00:00.160 - 00:00:00.820
Foreign.
Kyle
00:00:12.560 - 00:00:21.224
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast. We're back with my friend Seth, and we got an amazing guest here, Mozart Gabriel. How you doing, my friend?
Mozart Gabriel
00:00:21.312 - 00:00:22.232
Doing fantastic.
Kyle
00:00:22.296 - 00:00:23.384
We're so glad you're here.
Mozart Gabriel
00:00:23.472 - 00:00:24.024
Me, too.
Kyle
00:00:24.112 - 00:00:25.438
Tell our people who you are.
Mozart Gabriel
00:00:25.544 - 00:01:00.496
Hi, everybody. My name is Mozart Gabriel. I'm Navajo, and I'm Taos Pueblo Native American. I'm a filmmaker. I went to Chicago, Columbia.
But for high school was the Chicago Academy for the Arts for Film and Storytelling, and then Columbia, and then after that, it was Vancouver Film School and a graduation of cinematography and Production design. That school is very intense. It's from.
You work from 8am to midnight every single day, including the weekends, and your longest vacation is three days, and half of the students end up dropping out.
Seth
00:01:00.568 - 00:01:00.960
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:01:01.040 - 00:02:08.530
And you have to work every single position. I think that in term two, we have to work every single job once a day. And so it's intense. And after that, I got into Sundance.
I was a writer for Sundance for a long time, a colorist for Sundance. And, hey, then I got a master's degree in stop motion animation and another master's green color grading and another master's grade in color grading.
And then I got my latest video that I did get to work with was In a Maratha by Metallica, which was a really intense project. Metallica's wonderful, gorgeous, wonderful. Thank you. Absolutely fantastic people to work with. And. Yeah.
And I've been working in film professionally since I have to sound very douchey about it. Here we are at the Filmmakers Lounge, and I've been working on film professionally since I was 11 years old.
I worked for galleries for the Smithsonian, Harwood, and professional museums in the United States.
Seth
00:02:08.910 - 00:02:13.290
And he also painted our most prominent set piece right there. Get that slap, y'all.
Kyle
00:02:14.580 - 00:02:38.572
Yeah. With each word, I got more excited about the perspective that you're going to bring. I just. Because I just nerd out.
And I like that you clarified the professional thing, because I've. You know, we've interviewed a lot of people for this podcast, and I also know a lot of people. Like, I have friends that moved to LA to do it. Right.
There really is a distinction between the career aspect of it and people that say they have a career. And I know a lot of people that post. Post about their career in it, and I know they ain't doing.
Mozart Gabriel
00:02:38.676 - 00:02:39.360
Yeah.
Kyle
00:02:41.460 - 00:02:49.700
So I. I actually really appreciate the distinc. Well, welcome. We're so glad to have you. This is a good movie to have you on, too, by the way.
Seth
00:02:49.740 - 00:02:49.956
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:02:49.988 - 00:02:50.484
Yeah.
Seth
00:02:50.612 - 00:02:52.260
I Am this weekend. Next week.
Kyle
00:02:52.300 - 00:02:54.132
Yeah. Oh, Brazil.
Seth
00:02:54.276 - 00:02:57.300
I can't wait. That's gonna be preview for next week, y'all.
Kyle
00:02:57.460 - 00:03:21.014
Even though we film these back to back. But you don't know that until now. I am so stoked. I've had this movie on my list forever before the devil knows you're dead. This movie caught me is.
You ever watch a movie in, like. So I like to do this sometimes I will just go straight in. I won't read a summary. I don't do review.
I don't look at the cast, although you can see on the box. But I. Sometimes I just like going in cold.
Seth
00:03:21.062 - 00:03:21.462
Yeah.
Kyle
00:03:21.526 - 00:03:54.652
And this was one of those. And it ended up being just one of the most pivotal movies of my life when I did that. Philip Seymour Hoffman is one of my favorites of all time.
And after he died, I didn't realize, like, a lot of people felt that way. And this was at an interesting time in 2007, because we had Capote, and that was a really big deal for him.
That was kind of a launching point because before then, Philip Seymour Hoffman had done a lot of work, but he had. He was all over the place. He had done Twister, like we were talking about. And a lot of people like, that guy's weird. He's funny, kind of a weird guy.
But he had a lot of supporting roles.
Seth
00:03:54.716 - 00:03:56.764
Yeah. Flew very under the radar for a while.
Kyle
00:03:56.852 - 00:04:16.680
Yeah. And then he does this movie. And I have to say, there is something. You know, there are actors who.
They have a thing that only they can do, that subdued anger.
When he's at the table with his brother in the restaurant, he's, like, interrogating him, and he looks like he's about to literally explode, but he's. He's still quiet.
Seth
00:04:16.760 - 00:04:17.256
Yeah.
Kyle
00:04:17.368 - 00:04:23.480
That quiet. Just anger. And that was literally the moment was like, he's one of the best actors of all time.
Seth
00:04:23.520 - 00:04:23.784
Yeah.
Kyle
00:04:23.832 - 00:04:25.496
Just the way he did that, especially.
Seth
00:04:25.568 - 00:04:44.160
Like, right after, because you see him so angry. And then that moment, as soon as he gets all the answers he wants, he's, like, still mad, but he's showing love to his brother.
He's like, all right, we're good. You're good.
Obviously, still hitting the fan, but it's like that weird double side where he's, like, so pissed, but then he's like, you're still my brother.
Kyle
00:04:44.240 - 00:04:44.544
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:04:44.592 - 00:04:50.336
There's also that famous performance when, you know, he finds out that his. His wife cheats on him. Right.
Seth
00:04:50.408 - 00:04:50.944
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:04:51.072 - 00:04:54.432
He just pours the rocks over the glass. Right.
Kyle
00:04:54.616 - 00:04:55.664
It's just Visual.
Seth
00:04:55.712 - 00:04:57.136
That moment was so good.
Kyle
00:04:57.288 - 00:05:01.504
I forgot, too, when I rewatched it, like, oh, my God, this. He's not saying anything, but he's saying everything.
Mozart Gabriel
00:05:01.592 - 00:05:02.496
Yeah, yeah.
Kyle
00:05:02.608 - 00:05:03.808
Literally at the same time.
Seth
00:05:03.864 - 00:05:35.516
Yeah. This. I'd never heard of this movie until you told me about it. And same with you. I purposefully didn't look up anything. And I.
I didn't even know Ethan Hawke and Philip Seymour Hoffman and Melissa Tomey were all in it until I just opened it up on itunes, like, oh, wow. Okay. Lots of good people in this movie. And, yeah, it completely blew my mind. Like, it was. It was.
It's so well written, so well directed, so well casted. Everyone. Everyone's doing their job in this. It's.
It's always refreshing after starting with the Crow series to, like, see a movie I've never heard of and it actually be good.
Kyle
00:05:35.588 - 00:05:37.980
Yeah, I know, right? You've had a lot of nasty surprises.
Seth
00:05:38.060 - 00:05:44.260
I'm very wary with this guy whenever he tells me to watch any movies because I'm like, is this gonna be another shitty of Angels? Like, what are we doing?
Mozart Gabriel
00:05:44.720 - 00:05:58.648
Well, the other great thing about the film was the. The music. Right. It's the same composer who's done every, like, Coen Brothers film.
When I was listening to it, it was reminding me a lot of, like, who's this composer? And I thought a lot of Fargo.
Seth
00:05:58.744 - 00:06:03.288
Yeah. You know, I still need to see. Yeah, I've seen quite a few. We did the Big Lebowski not too long ago.
Mozart Gabriel
00:06:03.344 - 00:06:03.768
Nice.
Seth
00:06:03.864 - 00:06:04.776
And, yeah, there's.
Mozart Gabriel
00:06:04.808 - 00:06:11.116
There's so much I looked up on IMDb. The music composer done everything. Even the Twilight movies.
Kyle
00:06:11.228 - 00:06:11.564
Yeah.
Seth
00:06:11.612 - 00:06:12.460
Oh, wow.
Mozart Gabriel
00:06:12.620 - 00:06:13.360
Yeah.
Kyle
00:06:13.700 - 00:06:14.220
Yeah.
Seth
00:06:14.300 - 00:06:15.212
That's fantastic.
Mozart Gabriel
00:06:15.276 - 00:06:20.012
He's done, like. I was looking, I was like, wow, you literally are just the go to dude.
Seth
00:06:20.076 - 00:06:20.364
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:06:20.412 - 00:06:20.828
You know?
Kyle
00:06:20.884 - 00:06:36.316
Yeah. And huge range. The director, Sidney Lumet. No. You know, he's passed, unfortunately. This was his last film, but Serpico.
12 angry men, murder on the Orient Express. That's right. I would. I don't think this is an exaggeration. Hundreds of films on his resume before he passed.
Seth
00:06:36.348 - 00:06:45.998
Yeah. Stretching. I think it was a 50 or 60 year career, which is absolutely insane for anyone in Hollywood to have a fulfilling career for that long.
Kyle
00:06:46.134 - 00:06:49.694
Yeah. And to have so many. How did you encounter the film?
Mozart Gabriel
00:06:49.862 - 00:08:19.950
I thought so. I was. I was watching it, and I'm always. I'm always very confused about certain aspects of certain things.
The first thing is, is that we get into the film and they're having sex. Right. And I always think it's really interesting about the way that we use sex and. And especially during that time. I feel like sometimes when we.
When we watch sex, it becomes distracting. The one thing I will have to say from the, from the get go. When I was a kid, I was lucky enough to work with Ron Howard.
I got to be in one of his films called the Missing. You'll see me for like two seconds as an Apache captive. But I got to talk to him about certain amounts of things.
And one of the great things that he told me is it's like, so you want to be a filmmaker, right? I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, great, great, great. Did you do a lot of editing? I was like, yeah, I'm working with Final Cut.
And this is me at like, I think 10. And he. Yeah, I'm about 10 or 11. And he's just like, great. So the most important thing you're going to have.
There's two important things I have to tell you. The. The first important thing is, is when you're editing, make sure that an edit stands on its own.
Start watching movies without sound because, you know, sound is going to be key for everything. But if your cut and your edit can stand by itself, then that means you're a very good editor.
It's just like a great example is, have you ever seen the Italian Job that just came out?
I was like, yeah, well, those guys are actually only driving 5 to 10 miles an hour, but it's the roaring engines that make them sound like they're driving 100 miles an hour.
Seth
00:08:19.990 - 00:08:20.350
Yeah.
Kyle
00:08:20.430 - 00:08:21.598
I was like, whoa.
Mozart Gabriel
00:08:21.694 - 00:08:46.568
Blew my mind. And that's what, like, inspired me. And I'll go back to whatever this is that we're gonna talk about. So keep the editing in mind.
And then the other thing is, the other thing he said is, it's like the other thing is, is, is your script a page turner?
And, you know, that's such a brilliant thing to always think about because sometimes we get into film school, sometimes we write movies, and we're just like, oh, just wait for it.
Seth
00:08:46.624 - 00:08:46.904
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:08:46.952 - 00:09:05.776
Oh, just wait until the end. Oh, you just have to wait. Oh, we'll get there. Don't worry. It's like nobody wants to wait.
You know, everybody wants to see if we want to turn the page that. Is this gonna sell the book? This film that we're all talking about was a great example. Is it's. It's a page turner.
Seth
00:09:05.808 - 00:09:06.528
Yeah, yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:09:06.624 - 00:09:15.040
It's. It's cut and the editing is cut like a page turner. You know, there's The. It's got like the Pulp Fiction kind of method of editing, right?
Seth
00:09:15.080 - 00:09:19.486
Yeah. I kind of like the Rashomon almost style, how it's edited together.
Mozart Gabriel
00:09:19.558 - 00:09:24.158
Yes. And I thought it was very, very, you know, like, it's all cliffhanger.
Seth
00:09:24.254 - 00:09:24.814
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:09:24.942 - 00:09:29.614
Every. It doesn't give you the result because you're following everybody's path.
Kyle
00:09:29.662 - 00:09:30.174
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:09:30.302 - 00:10:54.062
And it goes back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And it's just teasing you every single moment, building the tension higher and higher and higher. I thought that was really brilliant.
The only thing I did think about was I felt. I felt bad. You know, I love. Love female characters, and female characters, for me, are always so important. Miyazaki is one of my favorite filmmakers.
I love teaching feminist screenwriting, and I like teaching feminist screenwriting because there's a lot of people who don't know how to write really great roles for women. And I just felt like the wife was there to look hot. I mean, she was.
There was a moment, I think he's in the hospital and he's about to go take some drugs and watch the movie again. And you'll see her performance. And she's just like. He's just like, I gotta get going. And she turns her head and looks, like, really sexy.
And she starts biting her lip, making all these sexy faces. And I'm just like, what's. And I rewinded it, and I showed my girlfriend. I was like, what do you think of this performance? Let's watch her.
And he's like, why is she making that hot, horny, sexy face? And I was just like, I know, right? And it's like the. The sad thing about it is that it. She is totally. What a great actor. Right? She's amazing.
Kyle
00:10:54.126 - 00:10:54.830
One of the best.
Mozart Gabriel
00:10:54.950 - 00:11:23.188
She's just there to be a hot piece of ass, like, when she leaves. And because I was trying to understand. This is what I mean by starting a film with sexual. It's a distraction for me to get into the mood.
You know, sex is such a intense thing. It's the. Everything around us is sex. You know, music is sexy. The pop stars are sexy.
We're gravitated, Instagram filled with, you know, hot working out people. It's sex.
Seth
00:11:23.244 - 00:11:24.228
I mean, sex everywhere.
Mozart Gabriel
00:11:24.324 - 00:12:26.594
It sells. And so are we just selling attention for this first scene? And the way that it's shot, too, it's really only focused on Philip Seymour Hoffman.
We see her getting, you know. Sorry. We see her getting pounded from the back, and then we see his face, and then we see the back of her Head.
And we don't really see her reaction to the side. But then all of a sudden, she gets depressed at the very end of the scene. That's the cliffhanger is where we leave.
Which tells us the next story of being like, okay, next sequence, let's go on to something else. And we'll come back to her in her moment. But when she leaves the house, you don't really get a resolution or anything for her. And she's kind of.
I don't know. I did like the fact that, you know, she's sleeping around with the brother because then it shows the two brothers. But that's what I mean.
I feel like she's a pawned to execute, you know, the two brothers storylines.
Seth
00:12:26.642 - 00:12:27.138
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:12:27.234 - 00:12:35.634
Rather than her being her own person, which I would have loved to see as her being her own person, because it shows that this family's already fucking dysfunctional.
Seth
00:12:35.682 - 00:12:35.954
Yeah.
Kyle
00:12:36.002 - 00:12:36.322
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:12:36.386 - 00:13:15.140
I'm sorry if I can curse. I don't know. So the two brothers are already dysfunctional. They're kind of rats. Yeah. There's no loyalty in it all. And I thought that the.
The second thing is, is that I thought the music composition, there's that theme. It's so darn good. And it comes in at the right time and places of the. Of it all. And I just.
I thought that was really, really great because you see him screaming and there's the music that stands on its own, but he's in the car after his mom gets shot by his. By his. By his friend, and. And then it comes back and certain elements, and you're just like, let's get back to that feeling.
Kyle
00:13:15.260 - 00:13:19.300
Yeah. It's almost a. It's not Locrian mode, but it's almost a Locrian.
Seth
00:13:19.380 - 00:13:19.828
Yeah.
Kyle
00:13:19.924 - 00:14:27.880
Approach. Whereas, like, you know, the unresolved seventh, I'm gonna have to cut that out because no one gives a. About that. But, you know, the.
The idea in Locrian mode is the unresolved seventh. And even though it's not technically Locrian, it has that feel to it. And. And the music doesn't actually resolve either. So a lot like.
A lot like the characters. I thought there was a huge reflection between that music where when it ends, you don't feel settled. It didn't end on a major one.
It didn't end like, where you thought it would. It doesn't end, and it kind of just fades and you're just left.
And that's what the theme of this movie is, is you are left to deal with the unresolved emotions that are just exploding in various climaxes throughout this film. But the danger and the. The.
The edginess and the misshapenness of their emotions and how they permeate in other people's lives, and that's like kind of that cyclical emotional thing.
And so I thought the music perfectly reflected that because, just, like, you know, this was one of those movies, even though it's one of my favorite, I got to be in a good mood to see it because it's like, all right. The right mood, because, like, I gotta know that, like, there's not gonna be a resolve to goodness or a resolve to. This isn't a hero's journey.
This is a. This is literally, like, just descending in the madness. Yeah.
Seth
00:14:28.040 - 00:14:32.952
Someone's life completely unravel and get even worse as you think it's hitting rock bottom.
Kyle
00:14:33.016 - 00:14:36.824
And the score perfectly. I don't know what you think, but it just perfectly reflected that to me.
Mozart Gabriel
00:14:36.912 - 00:14:55.864
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I thought the score was brilliant. And like I said, I think it just reminded me a lot of Fargo from.
From the, you know, the Coen Brothers Fargo film. And I think that. I mean, the movie does feel like one of those.
Those really bad nightmares, you know, that you feel like you're in trouble with something.
Seth
00:14:55.952 - 00:14:56.216
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:14:56.248 - 00:14:56.680
You know, like.
Kyle
00:14:56.720 - 00:14:57.128
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:14:57.224 - 00:15:11.034
Like when you. Nothing but are late on your taxes. And then you're like. You're really. You're.
You're sleeping at night, and then you start having a bad dream that, like, oh, am I in trouble or something? And that's what the film feels like, which is. It executed it super well.
Kyle
00:15:11.122 - 00:15:14.362
You leave the envelope on the counter for a long time before you open it. Right.
Seth
00:15:14.466 - 00:15:24.470
I still have nightmares where I'm like, in the dream, and I'm like, oh, shit. I didn't, like, turn in this assignment for this class. And I'm like, wait, I've been in high school in 15 years.
Kyle
00:15:24.930 - 00:15:34.450
Yeah. No, I have that nightmare all the time. If you got a friend who is thinking about robbing their parents or send this to them.
Seth
00:15:34.490 - 00:15:34.706
Yeah.
Kyle
00:15:34.738 - 00:15:35.778
It doesn't turn out good.
Seth
00:15:35.834 - 00:15:36.162
Yeah.
Kyle
00:15:36.226 - 00:15:52.978
Share Movie wars with your friends. We got an amazing guest here. Share it with your friends. Thank you. The questions. The question, the questions.
Andy is pretty damned accurate at shooting people through a pillow. Two for two. He shot two people. Two bullets through the pillow killed them both.
Seth
00:15:53.034 - 00:15:53.410
Yeah.
Kyle
00:15:53.490 - 00:15:54.370
Pretty good, huh?
Seth
00:15:54.450 - 00:15:56.354
That's. That's a solid, solid track.
Kyle
00:15:56.442 - 00:16:05.352
How does he become such a great pillow marksman? Where does. Where does one. Where does a real estate person who works in an office and does heroin. Where do they get the impetus to.
Seth
00:16:05.456 - 00:16:07.272
I'm just surprised that he knew that trick.
Kyle
00:16:07.336 - 00:16:10.200
I know. He's literally 100 accuracy.
Seth
00:16:10.280 - 00:16:10.940
Yeah.
Kyle
00:16:11.600 - 00:16:15.128
And he's having withdrawals at the same time. I mean, it's a very weird thing.
Seth
00:16:15.184 - 00:16:16.648
Yeah. Oh, my God.
Mozart Gabriel
00:16:16.744 - 00:16:22.500
It was quite brilliant, too, because that face he made, too, and the way his body shakes before he, like, shoots. And he's like.
Kyle
00:16:22.960 - 00:16:23.336
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:16:23.368 - 00:16:26.568
You know, he's just like. He's building the curses. Do it.
Kyle
00:16:26.704 - 00:16:27.128
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:16:27.144 - 00:16:28.644
It goes. And it's.
Kyle
00:16:28.772 - 00:16:29.124
It's.
Mozart Gabriel
00:16:29.172 - 00:16:55.502
It's. It's nice. It's. It's a beautiful choice from Philip Seymour Hoffman. I'm going to tell you both something really, really exciting. Okay.
He used to come to my school, Chicago Academy of the Arts. And so he used to come and visit us and see and talk because he was friends with one of the students.
And so we got to see him a little bit before he died. And very, very, very sweet, incredible, creative person.
Kyle
00:16:55.606 - 00:16:56.446
Yeah.
Seth
00:16:56.638 - 00:17:05.182
I've literally never heard anyone say a bad thing about him. Like, everyone who's come into contact with him throughout his life was just always that. He's just the greatest guy.
Kyle
00:17:05.326 - 00:17:06.078
I posted it.
Mozart Gabriel
00:17:06.134 - 00:17:08.690
Besides. Besides his withdrawals and drugs. Yeah.
Kyle
00:17:10.790 - 00:17:32.074
Yeah. I posted to our Instagram one of the.
One of the most popular videos we had was just kind of this Ethan Hawke interview about working with Philip and just talking about how he was such a serious professional, but also such an. Like a deeply artistic professional, too. And he had this crazy balance of work ethic.
And one thing we'll talk about more later is this film was a great example. Like, Sydney lit talks about how, like, at most, three takes.
Seth
00:17:32.122 - 00:17:32.298
Yeah.
Kyle
00:17:32.314 - 00:17:37.178
For a scene. They never went beyond two to three takes per for any scene in this movie. Yeah.
Seth
00:17:37.354 - 00:17:59.492
You texted me that.
And I was like, that's what happens when you, like, actually rehearse and actually sit down as a director and get everyone in the mindset they're supposed to be in. You can get it done in as few. You don't have to kubric it and do 158 takes. You can sit there and be like, are we all on the same page? Cool.
Let's do it. Get two or three little. Little changes maybe, and then there you go. You can move on.
Kyle
00:17:59.516 - 00:18:00.068
Like, it's.
Seth
00:18:00.164 - 00:18:02.132
It's not that hard if you do it right.
Kyle
00:18:02.236 - 00:18:18.740
It was weird hearing in the commentary because, like, he would say that about, like. Like the scene that I thought that table scene in the.
In the bar where I was like, that's one of the most emotional and complex scenes I've ever seen. Yet it was two takes. Yeah, I'm just like, that's. That's a professional, but also someone that deeply understands the craft.
Seth
00:18:18.820 - 00:18:19.500
Absolutely.
Mozart Gabriel
00:18:19.620 - 00:21:23.120
Totally. And I think that the more I've learned from being a rock musician as well and recording rock music.
Our producer, Kenny Ken Riley, he's worked with Green Day, Paramore. He was the engineer for Michael Jackson, Mariah Carey in his younger years.
And, you know, he did corn and switch for Switch Foot, and, you know, so many other great bands. And he says rock music is energy. And you're only allowed to do this three times. Vocals. And so if you. If you're gonna do it more like.
Like, I would do it once. He says, that was pretty good. Do it again. And then I did it the second time. It's like, all right, you're fucking done. Get in here.
And I was just like, wait, let me try. He's like, nope. I was like, but I feel like I can do these. It's like, no, this is rock and roll. I was just like. He's just like, you can't fake it.
You can't recreate it. It's like, you don't go on stage and redo it again. It's like, this is where it's at, and you gotta trust me. And I was just like, let me just try it.
Me throwing a tantrum, you know, And I go back into it, and he's just like, you can do it, but I'm not gonna use it. And I was just like. And I'm just like, okay. And I listen, and he's right, you know, if you nail it that one time, then you're supposed to use it.
And, you know, it's. It's about energy, vulnerability, honesty, being in the moment, not trying to recreate things. Rock and roll is not meant to be perfect or perfected.
It's not. It's not a beautiful Billie Eilish album. You know, it's, like, great for her. You know, I love her music. And, you know, there's.
But I think she also admits it in her documentaries, too, is that she knows the whisper singing. It's like when she can't hit those high notes and she can't project because she's been so comfortable in this being her space. Yeah, it's.
That's her venue. But, you know, when you get to the point where you want to expand your venue, you know, reach out and branch out.
But I think that's what I realized when we worked on without A darker reflection. Working with Geth and Anthony, there were moments that I felt, as a director, it might have been frustrating how many takes we had to do.
And that wasn't his fault. That was our fucking dp's fault. You know, adjusting the camera. And I've. I've been there, too, as. As a cinematographer when I was.
I don't know, maybe in the mid of my career. I've had to make adjustments and I said, let's go for another take. Rack focusing. You know, rack focusing is always hard.
Just trying to get the rack focused and working with a new team. Sometimes the dolly pusher is moving too fast and your AC is not getting the right moment of it. And then we have to go for another take.
And then the actors are like, am I doing everything okay? It's like, no, actually, you're perfect.
Seth
00:21:23.200 - 00:21:23.660
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:21:23.760 - 00:21:34.708
And I think that's the heartbreaking moment. If you do not have a strong team to capture something like what Philip Seymour Hoffman is doing, then you'll lose it.
Seth
00:21:34.764 - 00:21:35.188
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:21:35.284 - 00:21:50.466
And. But it also speaks volume for the energy of an environment, of a crew. You know, if you're. If you're messing it up, then. Then.
And if everybody's not tight in that form, then you're losing it.
Seth
00:21:50.548 - 00:22:50.302
Yeah, that is.
That is something very interesting because that particular scene, it's so simply done, like, they purposefully keep the camera in, like, two or three spots. It never really moves. It just follows certain action. But it's not. They're not trying to do anything complicated.
They're trying to let the emotion and the weight of that scene speak for itself. And I think.
I think that's probably what lended it to be able to be done in two or three takes, was the fact that they weren't trying to be all fancy with it. They weren't trying to do anything complicated. They just wanted the actors to be able to do their thing.
Like, that was something I noticed throughout the whole film is, yeah, there would be some complex movements as far as, like, where the camera's going, some of the choreography of, like, this guy's got to bust his way through a window after just getting shot. Like, there was some complicated things, but when you really got to the heart of the performances, the camera was almost never moving.
It was always making sure that all of the focus was on who is talking and what they're saying.
Mozart Gabriel
00:22:50.406 - 00:23:14.298
You bring a great point because, you know, teaching cinematography, there's that scene where he goes. And he goes to go shoot up at that guy's place, and he's sitting on the chair and he's talking about his job.
And before that guy says, get a wife or get a. Get a therapist.
Seth
00:23:14.394 - 00:23:14.762
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:23:14.826 - 00:23:22.122
But that scene, that is exactly one on one, like, great education of how to use a jib shot.
Seth
00:23:22.186 - 00:23:22.618
Yes.
Mozart Gabriel
00:23:22.714 - 00:24:00.610
That jib shot is so subtle and beautiful and perfect. It levitates down. That is one of my favorite new jib shots in history. I mean, my favorite gib shots of all time are the Mulholland Drive.
David lynch inside the cafe.
It seems like it's floating, you know, and it seems like you're out of body observing and you're like a ghost, you know, I think that that is brilliant because it's storytelling itself. That gyp shot was so subtle of just laying down, heading over to his face and then revealing the guy behind him. And it was just so beautiful.
Seth
00:24:00.690 - 00:24:18.438
Yeah. That whole scene in general, I just, I love how there were like some very clear steps.
Like he walks in, he says the one thing over here, then he takes off his jacket and then he walks to the other corner and he's looking out the window. And then he takes his. His over shirt off and then he goes to where the bed is.
Mozart Gabriel
00:24:18.494 - 00:24:18.886
Oh yeah.
Seth
00:24:18.918 - 00:24:38.448
And like takes his belt off and just like start like. It's just the, the process that he goes through. Again, so simple, but it's like all of the subtle little details are what make it so good.
Just that one scene, I just, I like took my breath away while I was watching it because it was so simple but so powerful.
Kyle
00:24:38.544 - 00:25:14.330
And what's interesting is Sidney Lumet in all the scenes that take place in the. The drug den apartment, which is like a beautiful apartment called a drug den. It's not like what you would think of a drug den.
But if you notice too, and I didn't notice until they pointed it out on the commentary. All the shots of the. The high rises out of the windows are foggy. And there was like someone did in cinematography, did challenges.
Don't you want to like have a better view here? Like the sunset? He's like, no. He was like, yes. These should be like historically beautiful views of New York City.
But I want the foggy shots because he's like the obstruction of their view. That even when you look out and you should see this beautiful high rise, it's symbolic.
Seth
00:25:14.410 - 00:25:14.714
Yeah.
Kyle
00:25:14.762 - 00:25:17.690
That not even. This can be like a moment of purity.
Seth
00:25:17.770 - 00:25:18.074
Yeah.
Kyle
00:25:18.122 - 00:25:29.862
You know, for them, like it's going to be foggy. This isn't the, these aren't the. The high rise views you would want up here. And so even that choice in those shots to keep foggy.
The foggy New York high rises was. It was intentional.
Seth
00:25:30.006 - 00:25:30.710
So good.
Kyle
00:25:30.830 - 00:25:31.222
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:25:31.286 - 00:25:31.670
Nice.
Kyle
00:25:31.750 - 00:25:40.982
Yeah. Really cool touch. So, yeah. God, that. God, that hurt me. Even when he said. When he said get a. Get a therapist or. Or get a wife, that I was.
Seth
00:25:41.006 - 00:25:43.862
Like, oh, God, he has a wife.
Kyle
00:25:44.006 - 00:25:57.200
He knows. He knows he has one job. He's like, I want to give you heroin and then you're going to get the out of here. Like, stop talking to me.
I was just like, always like his own. He's the only source of vulnerability is to the drug dealer who doesn't care about him.
Seth
00:25:57.240 - 00:25:57.456
Yeah.
Kyle
00:25:57.488 - 00:25:58.784
It's just like, that's when he's vulnerable.
Seth
00:25:58.832 - 00:25:59.184
Yep.
Mozart Gabriel
00:25:59.232 - 00:25:59.584
Yeah.
Kyle
00:25:59.632 - 00:26:01.856
It's wild. Yeah.
Seth
00:26:01.968 - 00:26:03.520
So many good details in this movie.
Kyle
00:26:03.600 - 00:26:34.040
Small, simple, small details. So this one, this got me too. I think these guys are in real estate, right? Like in this office.
So for being two brilliant guys that have this beautiful office and wear suits to work every day, was robbing your parents jewelry store really the only idea? Was that. Was that the only one? It was like, that was the first idea. And, and Ethan Hawk's character is like, sure.
You know, this is like no brainstorming, no, like, you know, even a Ponzi scheme. Just something a little less, you know, violent.
Seth
00:26:34.120 - 00:26:40.808
Yeah. Bloody. I mean, I guess. Wasn't he also embezzling, though, from the company? Like he was stealing money from the company. Like he's tried it all.
Kyle
00:26:40.864 - 00:26:59.354
I thought. But I also, like, of course this is an old idea, but you remember when old movies would have the idea of petty cash?
It's like, oh, get the petty cash. And it was like, every. For some reason, every person that works in office has a 10 can full of cash. Like, I was like, is that a call back to.
And if, I mean, if you think about it, Lumet's old here and he's directed 100 movies. Maybe he's like, oh, yeah. Petty cash.
Seth
00:26:59.402 - 00:26:59.722
Yeah.
Kyle
00:26:59.786 - 00:27:00.170
I don't know.
Seth
00:27:00.210 - 00:27:00.698
Still a thing.
Kyle
00:27:00.754 - 00:27:01.946
I didn't know if that was embezzling.
Seth
00:27:01.978 - 00:27:04.842
But, oh, no, it was 100% stealing from the company.
Mozart Gabriel
00:27:04.946 - 00:27:05.626
Totally.
Seth
00:27:05.738 - 00:27:06.362
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:27:06.506 - 00:27:14.122
Well, I thought. I thought that the. It does seem like the safest thing and to go and steal from your parents.
Seth
00:27:14.186 - 00:27:14.910
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:27:16.010 - 00:27:43.844
That's funny that you asked that question. The reason why we asked that question in film is because we didn't get to showcase the relationship between the father and the sons.
We heard a small little dialogue of it, but this would be executed better if it was a TV series. So if we were In a TV series, we could do the episode of building that kind of. That trust between the. You know, how the dad wasn't really there.
Seth
00:27:43.932 - 00:27:50.068
Yeah. That kind of Ozark style. Jump back to before everything, like, all the shit hit the fan. And have that one episode.
Mozart Gabriel
00:27:50.164 - 00:28:07.924
Yeah, yeah. And so, like. But it's interesting. I forgot what. Filmmaker. Screenwriter. Oh, Aaron Sorkin. Aaron Sorkin says you're not supposed to.
Don't tell the story of side things that need to be happened. Tell the story of actually what's happening.
Seth
00:28:07.972 - 00:28:08.538
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:28:08.684 - 00:28:16.942
And, you know, we don't need to know the backstory behind this person or that person unless if it's relevant to what's actually happening.
Seth
00:28:17.006 - 00:28:17.342
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:28:17.406 - 00:28:37.568
And taking his master classes is so, so damn good. And I just. You know, there's such a beautiful rhythm within his dialogue, especially, like, when you're hearing, like.
And there's a style to the way he does it, too. And, like, I mean, because I love the Social Network, I can't tell you how many times I love watching that movie.
Seth
00:28:37.664 - 00:28:48.016
That one's incredible. I absolutely loved the Newsroom. Like, I love the. Not even quippy, but, like you said, just the rhythmic dialogue between all of the characters.
It's so well done.
Mozart Gabriel
00:28:48.168 - 00:29:06.752
Yeah. And so I think about what Aaron Sorkin says in the. In, you know, just tell the story of what's happening. The story isn't really a.
About his relationship with his dad. You know, the story is about them robbing their parents.
Seth
00:29:06.816 - 00:29:07.248
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:29:07.344 - 00:29:41.482
And so that's. That's. That's our focus on this film. So we can forgive those. Those moments. Yeah, it does make sense, because. And I feel like this.
This film does it really well once again, with showing how scummy the brothers are having sex with the same girl. And I think that that's. That shows that they don't really have respect for each other or they really don't care for each other. And.
But, yeah, like I said, there's. There could have been a lot more to. To kind of give to personalizing other people.
Kyle
00:29:41.586 - 00:29:42.010
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:29:42.090 - 00:29:46.106
I always. Always have a problem with people using other people as pawns.
Seth
00:29:46.138 - 00:29:46.442
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:29:46.506 - 00:30:10.170
In a film, it's. It's always such a missed opportunity for development. And I forgot to mention why I love Miyazaki so much is because I say when.
When I teach people, it's like, I don't know how to write female characters. Say, well, just write yourself. And then later on, imagine casting a female for it.
Seth
00:30:10.210 - 00:30:10.522
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:30:10.586 - 00:30:11.850
I mean, that's true equality.
Seth
00:30:11.930 - 00:30:31.518
Yeah.
I mean, that's one of my favorite details from Alien is that when Ridley Scott wrote the script, he did not have a gender in mind for any of the characters. And then he auditioned everyone for every character, and that's when he started picking that.
I mean, literally, there was no reason other than she was the best for that character that Sigourney Weaver got to play, the person who survived the whole thing.
Mozart Gabriel
00:30:31.574 - 00:30:31.806
Yeah.
Seth
00:30:31.838 - 00:31:03.562
And I think it's just.
It's so good when that happens because we talked about this a little bit, how Joss Whedon, before all of the shit with Justice League went down, he was kind of considered to be, like, the male feminist director in the industry. And. And I remember there was one interview that. That someone was like, why do you keep writing all these strong female characters?
And he just goes, because assholes like you keep asking me that question. It's like, they're fucking people. Like, that's why I write. I write them like they're people, because they are. And it's.
Kyle
00:31:03.626 - 00:31:05.098
And then he went on to harass those people.
Seth
00:31:05.154 - 00:31:25.504
Yes. Then he went on to be just one of the biggest sexist, racist pieces of shit. Like, it's hilarious to me, but it's like, despite all of his.
His downfall, like, that is such a powerful instruction for artists, is like, stop thinking about it as I'm writing a female or I'm writing a male or whatever. You're writing a human being.
Kyle
00:31:25.592 - 00:31:26.352
Write a story.
Seth
00:31:26.456 - 00:31:26.928
Yeah.
Kyle
00:31:27.024 - 00:31:30.272
Write a powerful. Just. Just write. Write the power of it.
Seth
00:31:30.296 - 00:31:30.704
Exactly.
Kyle
00:31:30.752 - 00:32:00.184
And then assign later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get. And I get.
I wanted to respond to something you said because I get crucified, like, for sounding pretentious when I say this, but you were talking about the. The background aspect of characters, like, once. That is why I love film, because I. You almost.
I view each character as an entity, and I got absolutely grilled for using that word, you know, by somebody I can't remember, like, oh, you're so pretentious. I'm like, just some rando dude, Internet person that their pick. Their profile picture was probably like, you.
Seth
00:32:00.192 - 00:32:01.832
For calling realistic tones.
Kyle
00:32:01.896 - 00:32:29.730
Yeah. The deaf tones. You know, but you truly like. And I think Finney, Albert Finney, the dad here, is the best example of that.
Like, we don't get a lot of the backstory. You get it here and there a little bit, but the way he's performing that and acting that, like, I think he's.
He's filling in the gaps, you know, and it leaves it up to your imagination, and you're connecting with your own experience. Like, you're like, you're looking at him, you think you understand it, but you can only understand him as much as your experience allows you to.
Seth
00:32:29.790 - 00:32:30.074
Yeah.
Kyle
00:32:30.122 - 00:32:44.490
And so that becomes your lens. And that's why not. And there's a place like, I like backstory in some films, depending.
But in this instance, each is their own entity and they're colliding. And these, their past, their present, all of it is colliding. Like they're filling in the gaps for me pretty, pretty well here.
Seth
00:32:44.610 - 00:33:51.098
And this is another one of those stories like we've talked about before, that it just, it. Everything unfolds. You don't know when you start the film. You're even within the first 10 minutes of the film.
You don't know who these people are or what exactly is happening. And every layer just unfolds and you get that next part of who this person is, who this person is and how they're related and how.
Because even like when we were, when we were talking about people using people as pawns, like, I find it so interesting that even him bringing his brother in to do this was a total act of selfishness. Like completely. If he had been able to do it himself, he would have.
But he realized like, well, shit, I can't go up there because everyone's gonna just recognize me because I've been up there so much over the last few months. So him bringing Ethan Hawke in was completely self centered. It had nothing to do with him actually wanting to help him out.
He was like, I, you're just someone I need to make this happen. And, and so I'm gonna, I'm gonna use your situation. I'm gonna dangle that in front of you so that you have to do this. But this is still 100% me.
Kyle
00:33:51.154 - 00:33:59.706
And then in 10, 10 seconds of dialogue later with the dad, you find out it's because he envies him, because he hates him. He's jealous of how he was treated. Like. And literally just 10 seconds of dial, like, Holy.
Seth
00:33:59.818 - 00:34:00.202
Yeah.
Kyle
00:34:00.266 - 00:34:01.178
Like, okay.
Mozart Gabriel
00:34:01.274 - 00:34:07.994
And also I, because I remember I wanted to bring this up. The. The script writer is the same guy who did the script for Snowpiercer.
Kyle
00:34:08.122 - 00:34:09.930
Oh, Kelly Masterson's. Yeah.
Seth
00:34:10.010 - 00:34:13.002
Oh, okay. Oh my God. What another great movie.
Mozart Gabriel
00:34:13.066 - 00:34:22.360
I love that movie. Oh, love Snowpiercer. I know some. Always. My little sister who doesn't like Snowpiercer because. Cause she's just like, movie's so dumb at the end.
Seth
00:34:22.480 - 00:34:31.320
There's just a, there's just a polar bear going. It's beautiful.
Mozart Gabriel
00:34:31.400 - 00:34:37.304
It's just like that Polar bear is a sign of hope in life that you know that there's something beyond humans.
Kyle
00:34:37.432 - 00:34:38.380
Margot.
Mozart Gabriel
00:34:38.960 - 00:34:45.432
Like, what is everything about the human race? We're Native American. We also need to know that we live with animals on this planet.
Kyle
00:34:45.576 - 00:34:53.910
Fuck sake, Margo. Damn it. I haven't met you yet, but damn it, Margot. It's just fun to say. Damn it, Margot.
Mozart Gabriel
00:34:55.130 - 00:34:59.682
My sister is incredible. She's. She's. She's one of the most bougie people I know.
Seth
00:34:59.706 - 00:35:03.202
Though she was so funny to have on set. Like, it was just such a great time.
Mozart Gabriel
00:35:03.306 - 00:35:23.196
We've. We've been there for each other a lot through creative adventures, and it's been really incredible.
She's been through so much of my filmmaking journey. If anybody had to, like, talk about what it's like to see a dyslexic creative disaster, sometimes, she would understand it. Probably the best.
Kyle
00:35:23.348 - 00:35:25.760
I take it back, Margo. You're awesome.
Seth
00:35:27.700 - 00:35:29.004
Damn it. You're awesome. Margo.
Kyle
00:35:29.052 - 00:35:33.532
Damn it, Margo, you're so great. You're a great sister. I wish I had a sister like.
Mozart Gabriel
00:35:33.556 - 00:35:36.760
You at this moment. If she's watching, this is like, that's right.
Kyle
00:35:38.340 - 00:35:44.694
I have to meet her. I have to be this person. Sounds amazing. And actually, that was a great segue into our rando.
Seth
00:35:44.742 - 00:35:45.350
Rando.
Kyle
00:35:45.430 - 00:36:16.130
Because my first rando is about this. This gave me hope as a. As a hopeless, dying creative. Kelly Masterson's was. He was 50 when he wrote this. This was his first accepted screenplay.
This is his first property he sold at the age of 50. And then he did Snowpiercer. So I, as someone who's 37, thinking that I've passed, but all of my opportunities have died and I will never succeed.
And I will be stuck in the corporate structure until I die at my desk and weeds grow out of my back. That gave me hope. So, anyway, he was coming and share.
Seth
00:36:16.170 - 00:36:18.002
This podcast so that we can get him out of tech.
Kyle
00:36:18.066 - 00:36:21.670
Get me out of. Please, God, help me, Margo.
Mozart Gabriel
00:36:26.570 - 00:36:47.570
Right? Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. No, especially with opportunities and whatever it is I've done. I have talk about. Let's talk about pretentiousness.
You know, somebody just to let everybody know who is a filmmaker, who watches film, who's. Anybody who's, like, obsessed with film? You're all pretentious.
Seth
00:36:48.070 - 00:36:48.590
Yes.
Mozart Gabriel
00:36:48.670 - 00:37:05.598
And I am too. And that's. That's okay. I mean, I. I've tortured so many girlfriends. I feel so bad for them, for them. To us talk about.
Here we are at the filmmakers lounge, and we're Going to just talk about so and so. But what about the lighting? Oh, that was an F stop of, you know, like, it's just.
Seth
00:37:05.654 - 00:37:06.862
Look at those 20Ks.
Mozart Gabriel
00:37:06.926 - 00:37:27.314
I know. Oh, my God, I love me a 20K. You know, it's like a little clothes pin is called a C47. That's how pretentious we are as filmmakers.
If you don't think you went into. You went into it being pretentious. Who calls a little tiny clothes pin? It's like, can we get some C47s on this white promise?
You know, it's like, I need a.
Seth
00:37:27.322 - 00:37:30.630
50 foot stinger firing.
Mozart Gabriel
00:37:31.610 - 00:37:34.034
And so even if it takes you.
Seth
00:37:34.042 - 00:37:37.546
To 50 to get it out there, like, hold on to it. Don't throw that stuff away.
Mozart Gabriel
00:37:37.658 - 00:37:38.522
Absolutely.
Seth
00:37:38.586 - 00:37:39.050
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:37:39.130 - 00:37:48.510
And you know, it's okay for us to. For, for some of us, like, we. We just talked about how we don't. I heard you hate cgi. Yeah, I hate cgi.
Kyle
00:37:48.930 - 00:37:50.186
You know, like over it.
Mozart Gabriel
00:37:50.258 - 00:37:54.218
Me too. And some people just love cgi. That's not for you and me.
Kyle
00:37:54.274 - 00:38:06.752
No, bro. No, it's not. Again, I got crucified for that, too. Oh, my God. Thank you for inviting me to the dramatic world of Snyder fans, by the way. I.
I was like, oh, cool, cool. Seth wants to do Snyder stuff. I've never really cared, but let's do it.
Seth
00:38:06.776 - 00:38:07.856
I told you it was going to be volunteer.
Kyle
00:38:07.888 - 00:38:18.576
I'm in a world of hurts. Someone called me fat on Tick Tock on one of our videos because of my opinion, like, fat guy doesn't like CGI. I don't. And I've lost 40 pounds. 40.
Seth
00:38:18.728 - 00:38:30.432
My favorite is still us talking about Henry CAVILL and the one just guys just like, yeah, those three guys have a combined testosterone level of 0.56. And I just responded, that's still 0.55 more than yours.
Kyle
00:38:30.496 - 00:38:36.860
I've made four children. Four. I've been married for 15 years. Talk about testosterone.
Mozart Gabriel
00:38:37.440 - 00:38:39.016
That's incredible. Congratulations.
Kyle
00:38:39.048 - 00:38:40.168
Thank you, brother. I appreciate that.
Mozart Gabriel
00:38:40.224 - 00:38:41.960
Beautiful thing. Yeah, that's really good.
Kyle
00:38:42.000 - 00:38:57.944
I love it. It's my life. That and Seth and you now welcome. Welcome to my house. Next, rando Cindy Lamette. I actually wondered about this.
The scene where Marissa Tomei's trying to leave, you know, and she's toting the bag.
Mozart Gabriel
00:38:57.992 - 00:38:58.456
Yeah.
Kyle
00:38:58.568 - 00:39:15.730
The reason that was so awkward, he filled it with weights because metaphorically, he wanted it to be like, the weight that she can't handle of the situation. And so he loaded up and that's why she's like. And he didn't Give her directions on how to leave the room. He said, here's a really heavy bag.
Just figure it out.
Seth
00:39:15.770 - 00:39:15.986
Yeah.
Kyle
00:39:16.018 - 00:39:24.082
And so that was her actually as an actress, never having done it, just trying to figure out how to get up these awkward stairs. You know, she's going sideways. Yeah. And Philip Seymour Hoffman just.
Seth
00:39:24.266 - 00:39:30.474
I love that moment. It's that moment where she, like, almost gets the door and then just stops and like, I need money.
Kyle
00:39:30.562 - 00:39:31.258
Yeah, I know.
Seth
00:39:31.314 - 00:39:32.010
I love that.
Kyle
00:39:32.050 - 00:39:53.328
So I was like, oh, my God. So, going back, I love what you said about the intro sex scene earlier, because I'm not a big fan of, like, using it as a certain mechanism either.
It is. It can cheapen art, I think, sometimes, depending on the context.
But originally there was a new ending or there was an original ending that Kelly had written where Gina and Hank were going to be in Rio together.
Seth
00:39:53.514 - 00:39:54.068
Oh.
Kyle
00:39:54.164 - 00:40:09.220
And so. And that was the original ending. So it was like a bookend. So it was going to be like them talking about Rio at the beginning.
And then Hank and Marissa after. After Andy dies, they were going to go to Rio together. And he actually did not the first time he saw it. He did not like the new ending.
Seth
00:40:09.300 - 00:40:13.780
I was about to say that. I don't know. I don't know if that would have made it any better.
Kyle
00:40:13.900 - 00:40:14.196
Yeah.
Seth
00:40:14.228 - 00:40:27.054
Like, I do like the idea of bookending it and having that. That. That contrast of. Of the two of them there first, then the other two or her there with the other brother. But I don't.
I kind of think this ended really well.
Kyle
00:40:27.142 - 00:40:27.454
Yeah.
Seth
00:40:27.502 - 00:40:42.846
As far as, like, this is the end of this moment. We're now leaving the story. Like, we don't need to know what happens to everyone after this moment. And I.
I think it kind of would have cheapened things to have, like, that happy ending kind of situation where. Where Ethan Hawke's character.
Mozart Gabriel
00:40:42.878 - 00:40:44.276
It would have justified it.
Seth
00:40:44.398 - 00:40:45.608
Yeah, yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:40:45.704 - 00:41:08.440
It would have justified everybody's actions if that was the case. And the way that we. We tend to think, who should we blame?
The script was really well done because then, you know, the fault all ends up with Philip Seymour Hoffman. And, you know, he was the one who killed everything. He's the one who started everything. It's nobody else's fault but his.
He started it and he ends with it.
Seth
00:41:08.480 - 00:41:08.792
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:41:08.856 - 00:41:12.066
And that's why the script ends up so well the way that it is.
Seth
00:41:12.138 - 00:41:12.386
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:41:12.418 - 00:41:14.450
I agree with that on this also.
Kyle
00:41:14.490 - 00:41:25.682
Did anyone else? Like, maybe this is my dumb brain, but, like, the first thing I thought was Frankenstein because he.
It's like he killed his own monster because he made him the way he is. Because the way he raised him, it's like he put his own monster out of his misery.
Seth
00:41:25.746 - 00:41:27.266
Yeah, I like that.
Kyle
00:41:27.338 - 00:41:34.690
I was like, holy.
Like, that's like he made this monster by raising him the way he did, and then he closes the book on him and puts him out of his misery that he created.
Seth
00:41:34.770 - 00:41:40.672
What a moment, dude. Just that moment with the pillow over his face and, like, you see it all on the dad's face.
Kyle
00:41:40.776 - 00:41:42.384
Sick. I was literally sick to my stomach.
Mozart Gabriel
00:41:42.432 - 00:43:17.256
It was so funny because, like, there was. There was so many, which was really, you know, they tried to make a great plan and everything messed up. And here's the dad with the best plan.
It was that simple. Let me just put these on my chest and my body and then suffocate you and then put it back on.
I was like, wow, that is really masterful than everything else that his kids did. And that even speaks volume in a different direction. But yeah, I thought the. The scene when they're separating and she's heading out with the bags.
I thought because I'm. Because I just. I just got through a divorce and I'm still friends with my ex. My ex wife. I love my ex wife so much. It's just not working for us.
But I remember when we had to separate and she's not financially stable, and sometimes I have to be under. Here's the thing. I've been. My ex wife never cheated on me, but the other women. I've been cheated on by like 63 different people.
And I just finally got to a point where I'm just. I'm not jealous and I don't get upset when stuff like that happens. And it really has made me understand a little bit more about.
I think that's what I love about being a filmmaker too, is when you get to experience so much of life, you start to understand all perspectives. And that scene where he's just sitting there being all like, well, the love is gone.
So it's honest in his performance of just saying, like, I can't be mad because I literally just don't love you.
Seth
00:43:17.328 - 00:43:17.896
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:43:18.008 - 00:43:31.448
And it's just like. It's not like why she wants. She goes.
And you can see at that one moment, she was sleeping with the brother because she wanted incredible amounts of emotion from him.
Seth
00:43:31.504 - 00:43:31.832
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:43:31.896 - 00:43:32.824
Any kind.
Kyle
00:43:32.992 - 00:43:33.800
Anger.
Mozart Gabriel
00:43:33.960 - 00:43:35.848
Anger would have been amazing for her.
Seth
00:43:35.904 - 00:43:36.280
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:43:36.360 - 00:43:47.048
Because the.
And I know I've been in relationships too, where, you know, my significant other wants me to be angry because something is happening in their life and that's a distraction for them.
Seth
00:43:47.184 - 00:43:53.102
I mean, even that moment where she's like, he loves me and you just. There's no change in Philip Seymour Hoffman's.
Kyle
00:43:53.216 - 00:43:53.554
Yeah.
Seth
00:43:53.602 - 00:43:57.314
Like he clearly, like you said, is just mentally he's over it and the.
Kyle
00:43:57.322 - 00:43:59.074
Way he plays it so good.
Mozart Gabriel
00:43:59.162 - 00:44:19.426
Yeah, yeah. And so I thought that that scene was really interesting.
But like once I said before, I feel like, thank goodness she's such an amazing actor, you know, because like it. That performance really translates a lot for all the missed opportunities. We could have had her be more of a developing person.
Seth
00:44:19.498 - 00:44:32.946
Yeah. I mean, just straight off the script that she could have been such a pathetic character.
And I think she brought enough weight to it that even though it could have been, she could have been written better. She brought enough weight to it that she still ended up standing out.
Mozart Gabriel
00:44:33.018 - 00:45:03.910
But that's what I mean about females in the industry, especially during that time. You know, when they got that one scene, they knew I have to. This is my one scene and my one chance for me to get better roles in the future.
You know, it's because it's like the first scene she's having sex. The second scene we see her in her. Just her titties, you know, the third scene is just her looking hot.
And then like when she's observing out the window, she's still just looking hot with some titties. And you know, and then it's disappointing in that sense that I'm just like.
Kyle
00:45:03.950 - 00:45:34.956
Ah, you know, going into the rando for the second half of that scene. So when he's destroying things. We talked about it earlier. So this is. I actually didn't pick up on this till the commentary.
He only directed Philip Seymour Hoffman to destroy things that belonged to her because he wanted. So the rocks, that was her, apparently her decoration, the lamb, the plant. Because they. He wanted to show how concentrated his anger was.
He can't feel any emotions, he doesn't express any emotions. But he's like an expert at anger. He's so concentrated and focused that he only sought out her things and destroyed those things.
Seth
00:45:35.028 - 00:45:39.468
I love those details where you don't know it as a viewer.
Kyle
00:45:39.564 - 00:45:39.884
Yeah.
Seth
00:45:39.932 - 00:46:05.704
But clearly, I mean, it goes back to like how Johnny Depp wrote like a 50 page character outline for Jack Sparrow. Like so many things that we as viewers will never get to see.
But because he has that depth of knowledge, it comes across whether you realize it or not. And that. That moment. Yeah, I didn't realize that, but that makes so much sense that he's walking around and.
And now that she's gone, he's able to let that anger out because he doesn't want to let her win.
Kyle
00:46:05.792 - 00:46:10.648
Yeah. It's like building a vocabulary to pull from. You may not use all the words, but having the foundation there to pull from.
Seth
00:46:10.704 - 00:46:11.144
Exactly.
Kyle
00:46:11.192 - 00:46:15.666
Like, same with improv comedy. Same with, like, all that. So last it was.
Mozart Gabriel
00:46:15.738 - 00:46:18.914
It was nice because he was so gentle.
Kyle
00:46:19.042 - 00:46:20.242
Yeah, yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:46:20.306 - 00:46:21.810
He was gentle about his tantrum.
Kyle
00:46:21.890 - 00:46:22.290
Yeah.
Seth
00:46:22.370 - 00:46:33.730
That is. The thing is, like, most. Most of the time, you'll see scenes like that, and they're just throwing shit and screaming and everything.
He's so calm, but you can feel the anger as he's doing everything that he does. He's just so calm in that moment.
Mozart Gabriel
00:46:33.810 - 00:46:37.522
That's. That's a great example of being. Stay true to your character.
Seth
00:46:37.586 - 00:46:38.018
Yeah.
Kyle
00:46:38.114 - 00:46:52.726
Yeah.
It's funny you say that, because I, like, just when I subconsciously think about this character and, like, when I'm not watching it, I think about him as such an angry character, but he really is stunted anger. Like, he won't. He's screaming at Ethan Hawke at the table, but he's not screaming.
Seth
00:46:52.758 - 00:46:52.966
Yeah.
Kyle
00:46:52.998 - 00:47:01.958
You know, I mean, like, he's angry, he's foaming, but he's still, like, anger whispering. You know what I mean? Like, he's angry, but it's so, like, capped. It's so weird.
Seth
00:47:02.054 - 00:47:02.374
Yeah.
Kyle
00:47:02.422 - 00:47:02.982
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:47:03.126 - 00:47:46.410
And that's. That says a lot about it about an actor, too, because he did it so well in Punch Drunk Love. Right. He did the anger so fucking powerful.
Like, when he yells back at Adam Sandler because you think Adam Sandler is like this. Like, yeah, he's got it. He's got it. He's the angry guy. And then you meet Philip Seymour Hoffman, you're like, oh, no, he topped that.
He won the lion's roar in that one. And so it's fantastic to see that he didn't just go with what he knew in another role or, like, something else. It's like he did this. This way.
And that's. That's awesome. It's awesome.
Seth
00:47:46.490 - 00:47:46.890
So good.
Kyle
00:47:46.930 - 00:47:50.394
And then a different version of that, like, more subdued in Magnolia.
Mozart Gabriel
00:47:50.522 - 00:47:50.970
Yeah.
Kyle
00:47:51.050 - 00:48:01.970
Like another Paul Thomas Anderson film. Like, his character was so interesting. That too. He was more, like, kind of, like, narrow in terms of his.
His emotional scope, but like, just a totally different version of that in that film.
Seth
00:48:02.130 - 00:48:03.410
Yeah. So good.
Kyle
00:48:03.530 - 00:48:28.652
I know. Sign. Sign me up for the Paul Thomas Anderson fan club Last rando.
Steven Spielberg called Sydney Lumet after this film came out and said he was blown Away by the movie because from scene to scene, he literally shifted his sympathies between characters every scene. Like, he, like, went from that's the good guy to that's the bad guy. I put my sympathy here.
And he said even though it was frustrating, every time new information was revealed, he, like, picked a new person to put his. To put his chips on. So.
Seth
00:48:28.676 - 00:48:29.052
Brilliant.
Kyle
00:48:29.116 - 00:48:29.596
Yeah.
Seth
00:48:29.708 - 00:48:32.956
Like you said, like, every moment of this is a page turner.
Mozart Gabriel
00:48:32.988 - 00:48:33.868
Yeah. It's like. It's.
Seth
00:48:33.884 - 00:48:34.284
Your script.
Mozart Gabriel
00:48:34.332 - 00:48:35.036
A page turner.
Seth
00:48:35.068 - 00:48:38.860
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That was. I love that. Ron Howard said that. He.
Mozart Gabriel
00:48:38.900 - 00:48:39.900
Oh, man, he's.
Seth
00:48:40.060 - 00:49:02.918
That dude has had. We're. We're talking about eventually doing a series of, like, looking at directors, and they're just absolutely absurd careers.
And I think Ron Howard is, like, up in the top of that. Starting off as fucking Opie in. In the Andy Griffith show and then going on to direct things like A Beautiful Mind or.
Or even the Heart of the Sea, which I. I thought was a visually insanely beautiful movie.
Kyle
00:49:03.014 - 00:49:03.286
Yeah.
Seth
00:49:03.318 - 00:49:09.606
But, like, just everything he did in between is just. It's so crazy to watch out where he came from.
Kyle
00:49:09.758 - 00:49:11.030
Shall we rob our parents?
Seth
00:49:11.110 - 00:49:11.638
Let's do it.
Kyle
00:49:11.694 - 00:49:32.204
Shall we? Shall we scream quietly at our brothers? Let's war. As a reminder. Yes. We love it. We dig it. Rio, because that's the beautiful haven wherever.
Apparently they had a good relationship. And then Chico, because Michael Shannon was absolutely frightening when he called. When he called Hank. Chico.
Every time his eyes, I'm like, oh, my God, that's not a good Chico.
Seth
00:49:32.252 - 00:49:37.532
What a terrifying motherfucker. Every time I see him in one of those roles, I just love him more and more and more.
Kyle
00:49:37.636 - 00:49:46.474
One of the best. Yeah, one of the best. All right, Top Bill, cast Philip Seymour Hoffman, Ethan Hawke, Albert Finney as the father. What do we think?
Seth
00:49:46.572 - 00:50:21.300
I mean, I gotta go. Rio, obviously, like, as we have been discussing, everyone just brought 100% of what they needed to. To the characters.
And it's like, as we've even been talking about it, the characters themselves are not that complex. They all have very simple, specific motivations for doing the things that they're doing.
But each one of those actors really took that simple motivation and let it bloom into something incredible and something that felt way more complex than it actually was. So rio, for me, 100, we think same.
Mozart Gabriel
00:50:21.420 - 00:50:45.750
I mean, that was just insane looking at that cast. I mean, I love. I love all three of them. And, you know, it's like everyone in that film was incredible. Yeah. You know, it speaks.
Speaks volume to see such Great performances from a great director as well, you know, because it's, it's, you can have a good actor, but then also having the right script and the right, you know, director is always going to help.
Kyle
00:50:46.130 - 00:51:36.490
Love it. Same Rio. I think there's a lot of emotional complexity being, being displayed simply.
I think there's not a lot of fanciful anything here, but there's some really strong performances that are kind of actually. And when you look at the whole movie, it's quiet, it's a pretty quiet movie.
There's not a lot of like loud moments to this movie, but the emotions are loud. They feel searing and like you're feeling it. And that's because these performances and Ethan Hawke's another guy. Like I love Training Day.
It's one of my favorite movies of all time. But I really didn't get deep on Ethan Hawke. You know, I kind of thought that's who he was, you know, you, you kind of, that's how it is with actors.
Like you kind of think they, who they are based on what you've seen. Yeah, you can't watch everything all the time.
I, we're watching the Northman for, for next and I'm re watching it and then I forgot Ethan Hawks and that. I'm like, God, like having, having just watched this and then watching him and that. I'm like, God, this guy's got some, some dynamic range.
Seth
00:51:36.570 - 00:52:30.424
Well, last year I saw the before trilogy for the first time. We were talking about this on the way over and those are such densely dialog based films.
And yet watching as his character changes because each one was shot like nine years apart and they take place with, you know, that nine years separation and watching, watching what he brings to. It's nothing but dialogue. Like, like very little actually happens in those movies outside side of them.
Discussing all the philosophy and about love and everything and watching him in something like that and seeing that he can handle the weight of nothing but dialogue and then move over to something like this where he, I, I feel like he doesn't speak even as much as some of the other characters do and he's still like, you feel every moment of his anxiety throughout the whole film. I just, I, yeah, I think he killed it. He's so good.
Kyle
00:52:30.512 - 00:52:48.824
Love it. One to zero. We're hanging out in Rio at the moment. Supporting cast, here we go.
And there's a long list, but I'm gonna stick to the, to the hits here, Marissa. To who I absolutely love Aunt May. Yeah, well, hey, my cousin Vinnie, she got the Oscar and she deserved it. She was fantastic in that.
That was a long ass time ago.
Seth
00:52:48.912 - 00:52:49.580
Yeah.
Kyle
00:52:50.640 - 00:53:03.894
But she blew my mind in that movie. It's one of my top 50 for sure. Aleska Palladino as Chris. Michael Shannon as Decks. Oh, yeah. And then Amy Ryan is Martha.
And then I'll give a shout out to Rosemary Harris as Nanette the mom.
Seth
00:53:04.062 - 00:53:22.518
Yeah, yeah. Rio for me, again, it. It.
Even down to the smallest details, Michael Shannon probably had the least screen time of every single one of those and probably had the most memorable, memorable performance. For me, as far as the supporting cast goes, that three minutes of screen time was terrifying.
Kyle
00:53:22.614 - 00:53:23.126
Yes.
Seth
00:53:23.238 - 00:53:34.942
Just so good. Again, as we said, even though her character was kind of just written to be sexy on screen, I think Melissa Tomy brought so much gravitas.
Kyle
00:53:35.006 - 00:53:35.342
Yes.
Seth
00:53:35.406 - 00:53:48.238
To the way that she portrayed herself throughout the whole thing. She took what could have been a very ditzy, simple, mediocre role and. And really brought depth to the whole thing. So Rio for me.
Kyle
00:53:48.374 - 00:53:49.454
Love it. What do you think?
Mozart Gabriel
00:53:49.542 - 00:53:58.258
Yeah, yeah, I thought. I thought everybody's casted wise was. Was really good. I don't think anybody did a bad job and I think they had the best that they could do with it.
Kyle
00:53:58.314 - 00:54:23.044
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it because I feel like this was one of those movies where it's simple enough to. Where everybody matters. Yeah.
And every performance matters and no one drops the ball here. It's just there's a consistent emotional tone being set. You can feel it even in the supporting actors. But, yeah, going back to Michael Shannon, just.
Absolutely. We raved about him because it was weird watching him in the Snyder trilogy.
Seth
00:54:23.092 - 00:54:23.460
Yeah.
Kyle
00:54:23.540 - 00:55:08.636
Because I love him in more independent films.
Like, the first time I saw him was Take Shelter, and that's a 2011 film by Jeff Nichols where he plays a paranoid guy who has a dream about the end of the world coming. So he builds. He spends all of his family's money on building the shelter. It was also an early Jessica Chastain film.
And, you know, at this time, he wasn't. He wasn't quite prominent yet. You know, he hadn't had a lot of, you know, key roles like that.
So for him to come out in that three minutes and do what he did, it's still like his eyes. Like, his eyes are still seared in my brain. The whole, like, you got my money, chico? I'm like, oh, my God. Like, so fantastic cast across the board.
Two to zero living in Rio. Here we go. Writing Kelly Masterson at the age of 50 with his first hit. What do we think about the writing?
Seth
00:55:08.748 - 00:55:21.520
For me, I, I am going to have to say this is a squeak over into Rio for me. I, I think that the script ended up being better because of the cast.
Kyle
00:55:21.600 - 00:55:22.320
Okay.
Seth
00:55:22.480 - 00:55:52.256
I think if you had the wrong cast and if you had a mediocre director, but the exact same script, I think this could have been a mess. And while I do think there's a lot of positives in the script, I just don't, I don't see it being that like top tier script.
I think it took a lot of other talent to elevate it to the place where it is. So for me, it is a Rio, but it's, it's barely squeaking over as a Rio for me.
Kyle
00:55:52.328 - 00:55:52.864
Okay, cool.
Seth
00:55:52.912 - 00:55:53.232
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:55:53.296 - 00:56:08.384
My goodness. Well said. I didn't even think about that. I, I 100 agree with you.
I, I was thinking about it too, because there's moments where I was watching the movie and I was like, you know, this is like, this could have been like a really bad, you know, TV movie.
Seth
00:56:08.432 - 00:56:08.928
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:56:09.024 - 00:56:15.350
And I was just like watching it most of the time and there's, there's some like really blown out film scenes, you know.
Kyle
00:56:15.650 - 00:56:18.250
But are you a real. On writing, you said a squeak by like him.
Mozart Gabriel
00:56:18.290 - 00:56:20.538
So you said, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
Seth
00:56:20.634 - 00:56:25.738
It was, it was just good enough that it gave everyone the tools to make it better.
Mozart Gabriel
00:56:25.874 - 00:56:36.570
But yeah, yeah, I always, I always think about too with scripts, is that like, how do we introduce family without having to say it in the dialogue? And I was just like, yeah, of course I'll help you. You're my brother.
Seth
00:56:36.650 - 00:56:37.002
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:56:37.066 - 00:56:49.848
You know, you know, it's like, it's always interesting. How do we, how do we introduce situations without having to say it?
Just like, you know, just like, oh, yeah, you're my friend with the glasses and the watch.
Kyle
00:56:49.904 - 00:56:52.392
You were born at 12:43am in New Jersey.
Mozart Gabriel
00:56:52.536 - 00:56:56.424
Those are some things that drive me nuts about Woody Allen films.
Kyle
00:56:56.472 - 00:56:56.888
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:56:56.984 - 00:56:59.900
Oh, my goodness. What is it? Vicki in Barcelona.
Seth
00:57:00.480 - 00:57:08.424
I've only seen Annie hall and I hated that movie so much that I have purposefully avoided anything else that he's ever done. So I don't know.
Mozart Gabriel
00:57:08.592 - 00:57:32.272
The one thing that drives me nuts about Vicky Barcelona. I think that's what it is. There she is sitting on the green couch as she's reading her book and she is going to drink her coffee.
I was like, we see that happening. We see it happening. You don't have to, you don't have to, man. Explain the whole entire thing. Like, I was just like, it's it's ridiculous.
It's just like she's about to pick her. We know, dude.
Kyle
00:57:32.336 - 00:57:33.776
Yeah, yeah, we know.
Mozart Gabriel
00:57:33.848 - 00:57:34.624
We get it.
Kyle
00:57:34.712 - 00:57:35.056
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:57:35.088 - 00:57:38.948
Like, don't have to expect. Explain. Spoon feed us.
Seth
00:57:39.004 - 00:57:39.284
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
00:57:39.332 - 00:57:47.524
That's what I think we called in film school and writing is that you don't have to. Food. Food speed. Like, here you go. Here's the next scene.
Kyle
00:57:47.652 - 00:58:11.554
Yeah, that's interesting. I agree. I agree with some of what you guys said. I think the reason I go hard. Yes. On this one. Hard Rio on writing is because there. I agree.
But there's also this era of filmmaking that.
And it makes sense that Sidney Lumet worked with Kelly on this and also directed 12 Angry Men because a film that I actually thought of and Tell me, this is weird, I thought of Glengarry Glen Ross a lot during this movie.
Seth
00:58:11.682 - 00:58:12.226
It's.
Kyle
00:58:12.338 - 00:58:38.130
They're not similar, but the dialogue, the almost who's on first? The trade off style of dialogue. There's.
There's conversational dialogue and then there's like, we just got done with the Snyderverse, which is tons of exposition and explaining the history of aliens. And then you have this where it's like, who's on first trade off. Like, you talk, I talk. Like, it's almost as tit for tat style of writing.
And it definitely plays into Serpico, 12 angry men, some of the films that Sydney Lumet, even though he directed it.
Seth
00:58:38.170 - 00:58:38.434
Yeah.
Kyle
00:58:38.482 - 00:58:50.386
I think Kelly Masters. Kelly Masterson's writing maybe drew Sydney Lumet for that reason because it has that Glen Gary, Glenn Ross almost, boardroom style of interaction.
So I, I felt that here.
Seth
00:58:50.458 - 00:58:50.754
Yeah.
Kyle
00:58:50.802 - 00:59:03.328
And it's, It's. Even though it's not my favorite, I do like how it's portrayed here.
And it did make me want to go back and watch some of those older tit for tap dialogue type films. Yeah. So on the list. Yeah, absolutely. You haven't seen Glenn Gary, Glen Ross.
Seth
00:59:03.344 - 00:59:05.248
I have not. I also haven't seen 12 Angry Men.
Kyle
00:59:05.304 - 00:59:08.208
You've probably heard the phrase coffees for closers, though. Yeah, that's.
Seth
00:59:08.304 - 00:59:13.136
I've heard. I've heard of the film and I've heard a lot of the references to them, but. Yeah, I've just never seen it.
Kyle
00:59:13.208 - 00:59:27.280
Although we're squeaking by in Rio. Winning Rio. Squeaking by. We are three, three to zero here directing Mr. Sidney Lumet, the man that's directed hundreds of film. He's dead.
Rest in peace. Serpico, 12 anger men, murder on the Orient Express. Some of the hits I put here.
Seth
00:59:27.320 - 01:00:10.018
Yeah. I mean, as I said earlier, I think he. The way he directed it was the key, or one of the keys to really give weight to the story. I.
If I was going to rate it out of 10, I would probably rate his direction on this like a 7.5. Yeah, it was very good. Some technical things that we'll talk about in the next section. Like I. There. There are some questionable things that he.
And as a director, it would have been his job to make those things happen. And if they look blown out for whatever reason, like, that was his artistic choice. Sure. Questionable in my opinion. But no, I think.
I think he did a very solid job with this. And so, yeah, I'd give it a Rio.
Kyle
01:00:10.114 - 01:00:11.550
Yeah. What do you think?
Mozart Gabriel
01:00:12.010 - 01:00:13.730
I agree with everything you said.
Kyle
01:00:13.850 - 01:00:15.042
You too. On the.
Mozart Gabriel
01:00:15.146 - 01:00:15.778
We're on the same.
Kyle
01:00:15.834 - 01:00:18.430
The Emerald Couch committee over here.
Mozart Gabriel
01:00:18.890 - 01:01:00.336
It's like, well said on all of it. Because I'm with you on all of it.
Like, the only thing I'm standing for is the giving, you know, female characters a better role at that, at that time. It doesn't ruin the film for me. I still think the film. Movie is great. Yeah, I just. Just saying missed opportunity in the sense.
There's like, it's just like I said, it's just that that's the only funny thing about it. Everything else was. Was really good. And I said it before that, you know, great cast.
But I think the direction really, really, really helped a lot for the actors. And putting it all together, I don't. And yeah, I can't really complain.
Kyle
01:01:00.448 - 01:01:20.474
Yeah, Yeah, I go Rio here too. Not to just, you know, put the frosting on the cake here, because I love this movie so much. But one thing I like, there's. There's.
I have like two schools of thought. Like, and I think Nicholas Wending Refn being the most extreme and my favorite version of this because he's a top five director for me.
But, you know, that filmmaker, he's incredible.
Mozart Gabriel
01:01:20.522 - 01:01:20.938
Love him.
Kyle
01:01:20.994 - 01:01:28.026
He's incredible. I'm trying to get him on for an interview and we're like, we had one and then he had to go to Tokyo. Like, we're this close. He's.
He's going to come on the show.
Seth
01:01:28.098 - 01:01:31.434
What an asshole. No, I go to Tokyo for work. Okay.
Kyle
01:01:31.482 - 01:01:38.590
I love you, Nick. You can do whatever you want. You can do it. You can say no to me, call me fat, whatever you want to do. Not you trolls.
Seth
01:01:39.650 - 01:01:40.314
Read it.
Mozart Gabriel
01:01:40.402 - 01:01:43.498
If you ever do get him, please, please just call me. I'll be. I'll be here.
Kyle
01:01:43.554 - 01:01:44.666
I'll call you And I'll.
Mozart Gabriel
01:01:44.698 - 01:01:46.486
I'll bring my, my two fancy cameras.
Kyle
01:01:46.518 - 01:02:42.428
And let's do it. Like, I would love it. I'd love to have. I would actually. You could help me write better questions, that's for damn sure.
I'm gonna feel like a simpleton. Be like, I really like your movies. But he, he's top five from. But he leans into his exaggerative. Like, he. And he talks about this.
He's like, he knows that he's a lot. And he knows. And he talks about being self obsessed. Like those are his words. Like, you watch drive the commentary.
He's like, he's like, I care about my vision more than anything. He's like, I'm obsessed with my thoughts, my. And he wants to live in that. I also think I.
As much as I love that, there also is this limited idea too where like this movie could have. Like, there are a lot of moments where it could have become a. Like an iron ran style.
Like, you know how when you read like Fountain Head or Atlas Shrugged, like it's a good book and then in the middle of there's a 50 page. Like it's like she cut and pasted out of a philosophy book and it's no longer, it's no longer a piece of fiction. It's like a philosophy class.
Like there's a way to weave stuff in.
Seth
01:02:42.484 - 01:02:42.956
Yeah.
Kyle
01:02:43.068 - 01:02:58.364
And.
And this movie could have gone to that territory, but I saw a lot of like him limiting that inhibition and staying on message and really letting the performances. That's where I think the biggest directing thing here is that he, he let the performances deliver that message.
Seth
01:02:58.412 - 01:02:58.684
Yeah.
Kyle
01:02:58.732 - 01:03:01.612
Not a lot of backstory, not over. Not too much exposition.
Seth
01:03:01.676 - 01:03:02.012
Yeah.
Kyle
01:03:02.076 - 01:03:05.132
Literally just the facial expressions, the space, the breathing.
Seth
01:03:05.196 - 01:03:22.840
Like it's a very real feeling movie. Like it, it, it. It feels like it's taking place in our world versus how we were talking about Drive a couple months ago. How. How Drive.
While it does feel like la, it feels like a very shiny version of la, almost fantastical version.
Kyle
01:03:22.920 - 01:03:24.424
An empty neon la.
Seth
01:03:24.512 - 01:03:42.650
Exactly this. Even though you're not really ever in the city, most of it is taking place like outside in the suburbs. Like, it all feels very real.
Like I was looking at the setting where the jewelry store was and I was like, this looks like where I grew up in Canton, Georgia. Like, this looks like there's an Aldo shoes.
Kyle
01:03:42.730 - 01:03:44.810
Yeah, I know. I bought shoes there.
Mozart Gabriel
01:03:44.850 - 01:03:46.234
I was like, Aldo and Express.
Kyle
01:03:46.322 - 01:03:47.274
Yeah, yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:03:47.402 - 01:03:50.778
Just makes you feel like, oh, yeah, I've been everywhere. Yeah, you're right.
Kyle
01:03:50.834 - 01:04:17.268
Yeah, it really Does. It's like, it's like in for a second. Like now I go to a bar and I'm sitting at a table.
I'm like, I wonder if anyone's like, gonna rob their parents and are planning it in here. I'm like, you know, it's very real. So we are rolling right along. It is 4 to 0 here. I think so far it's going well for this film.
But now we're getting to a very technical category with two very technical filmmakers here. What's in front of a cinematography, production design, sound, costumes, editing.
Seth
01:04:17.364 - 01:05:09.140
Yeah, so I, I, this is going to be a squeak under for me. I am going to say chico on this one. But I can't, I can't pan it because there were so many cool things.
Like, as far as the editing goes, I think the editing is, is kind of simplistic overall until you have those moments where it goes back in time or changes who it's focusing on for the story. And you have those cool, like, cut between moments. But to me, that wasn't enough for me to just fall in love with the editing.
And then like we were talking about with the way that the, the physical shooting of it so much in the background is just completely overexposed and blown out. Like, again, it's not egregious. It's not bad, but it's not good enough for me to say it's good. So I am personally gonna go on a chico on this one.
Mozart Gabriel
01:05:09.440 - 01:05:19.030
Yeah, I'm totally uninspired by the color grading. As a colorist, I would never go and say this is my color grading reference difference. Yeah.
Seth
01:05:19.930 - 01:05:21.778
Someone with two master's degree in color.
Mozart Gabriel
01:05:21.794 - 01:05:58.752
Grading, you know, for anybody who is, who is interested in the society. Oh, I totally disagree with that. You know, I thought the color grading was really nice in those darks and, and the overexposed. It's, it really like.
Please elaborate more, please. I mean, like, it's, it's distracting. It's distracting on the overblown. There's, you know, you have ND filters.
You have, you know, it feels almost lazy, rushed. It seems like you put so much. Are you. With people pressed for time? The fact that I'm asking these questions is a bad sign.
Seth
01:05:58.856 - 01:06:00.672
Do you know how long it took them to shoot this?
Kyle
01:06:00.776 - 01:06:01.376
Eight weeks.
Seth
01:06:01.448 - 01:06:01.888
Eight weeks.
Kyle
01:06:01.944 - 01:06:02.320
Sorry.
Mozart Gabriel
01:06:02.400 - 01:06:04.096
I don't know why I said press for time then.
Seth
01:06:04.168 - 01:06:27.232
So, yeah, that sounds just like a little under average for shooting of a film of this scale. Yeah. I don't know, because, like, it almost seemed like they were trying to go with a modernized noir look. But it never felt purposeful.
It always felt like you got to have it consistent. Yeah. And it always felt like they wanted to get the person lit correctly and then said, fuck everything else.
Mozart Gabriel
01:06:27.376 - 01:06:38.906
Yeah.
And that's the thing, is that if you're going to, you know, because some of the shots look so raw, and if you want to do raw, continue to make it raw. Like Bamboozle.
Seth
01:06:38.968 - 01:06:39.302
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:06:39.366 - 01:07:27.942
You know, Bamboozle is a great example of, you know. You know, Spike Lee taking, you know, that. That. That way of making it feel so raw but cartoonish and. And it feels really, really consistent.
The whole entire time, this was kind of all over the place. And there are some beautiful shots, and then there are some shots that were like, oof, pretty. Pretty bad. And, you know, there could have been a.
Yeah, the color grading was all over the place. Like, you know, it's really funny because, like, lighting wise, I don't think there's really any color grading in this film.
Lighting wise, there's like. You go in the office, and then it's, like, pink and it's green. Like, lighting wise, going through there, and you're like.
But then you see, like, outside stuff. That's just.
Seth
01:07:28.046 - 01:07:39.410
Yeah, that's where I'm like, it just was under a 5 for me, but it was. I can't say any of it was just egregiously bad, but, you know, most of it wasn't incredible.
Mozart Gabriel
01:07:39.490 - 01:07:45.954
You know what it was? It was like the overexposed shot of him yelling in the car. The performance is too good.
Seth
01:07:46.042 - 01:07:46.530
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:07:46.610 - 01:07:53.698
I wouldn't say let's re. Let's relight it, or let's put an ND filter and capture that. The performance was great.
Seth
01:07:53.754 - 01:07:54.034
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:07:54.082 - 01:08:07.224
As a filmmaker. As a filmmaker or as somebody who is a producer or a director, I'd be like, I talked to my crew.
It's like, no, that shot's great, but the exposure is bad. I don't fucking care. Yeah, that performance was great. We're keeping it. Yeah.
Kyle
01:08:07.272 - 01:09:03.324
Yeah. And that's. That's totally. And, like, when you look at the films that.
That Lumet made, that's the difference between him and, like, a Kubrick, because Kubrick is a real time light person. Like, he's like. He doesn't just do 150 takes to get performances. He's doing performances.
But also, he was well known for, like, he would add a light, take away a light, dim a light, put a cover, like, every. Like, if you were to look at 150 takes, you would probably see 100 different, 50 lighting concepts because he was constantly tuning the lighting.
I just don't think Lumet's that kind of guy. He makes raw New York movies. Overexposed or not, this is what you're gonna get. And it's very much.
Serpico was kind of the same way, even though it's a much older film. But I, I, I actually did go Rio here. But the only thing that kind of had me back.
I don't have the technical gravitas that you two do to talk about this, but I love how you talked about the one shot in the drug dealer's apartment where it's kind of the. The what? The jit. What is he called? The jib. Jib shot.
Mozart Gabriel
01:09:03.372 - 01:09:03.900
Beautiful.
Kyle
01:09:03.980 - 01:10:10.050
That was a beautiful shot. I feel like this scene, this movie needed one or two different because almost every shot is square in camera.
All actors and, and maybe second position first, you know, second position, you know, like in the scene in Chico's apartment. Or not Chico, Michael Shannon's apartment. Like here, there, here. And it's kind of like that's in everyone. Like just some.
Even when he's walking, when he's walking to get some heroin. And it's a cool zoom out shot. It's almost a sitcom shot, honestly, of like that really raw New York street. It's not a sexy part of New York.
It's not Times Square. There's like a fish market and a Chinese market. Like there is, it's not a special part of New York. But he's walking.
I thought it was cool, but it was like just one shot to give me just a little bit of variance.
Just to say, hey, like, here's the, here's almost like here's a crazy story happening in a small crazy story happening in a giant place, you know, And I never, I like it for being. And we have a category for this, actually that I made.
But like, I like that it's a New York story, but at the same time I'm not feeling all of New York here. So there's like just something to give me a little more so as a squeak by for me on the other side. Rio. But you guys get it here four to one.
Seth
01:10:10.090 - 01:10:10.930
Did you go under?
Kyle
01:10:11.050 - 01:10:12.930
Oh, wait, would you go Chico?
Mozart Gabriel
01:10:13.010 - 01:10:31.212
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, but the other thing is, is that, but also just to give another compliment, but also I thought was really interesting is it's the following.
The dad following the taxi cab of the two brothers before they go out to somewhere. That scene is so long and it feels so student filmish.
Seth
01:10:31.276 - 01:10:31.692
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:10:31.756 - 01:11:25.330
And I kind of love it. And I kind of was also just been like, this is hilarious. It's just like I'm watching it. It's like. It's like real time.
So it's like this one shot, real time. It's a really long shot. It doesn't need to be that long. It really.
But I'm also just becoming more and more of a fan of longer shots and real time shots because I'm so frustrated with social media and how fast we have to be and how add things have gotten. I think I talk. Me, my ex.
Me, my ex wife, we love to still watch movies and trying to show her a video and she's like, okay, what's happening is like, can you just. Can you just. I was just like. She's like, I know, I know. I'm so sorry. This is exactly.
You know, your social media is making you feel like you can't even enjoy anything anymore.
Kyle
01:11:25.410 - 01:11:25.842
Right?
Mozart Gabriel
01:11:25.946 - 01:12:47.352
And like, I. I love tripod filmmaking. I just. I love it so much. I miss it so much.
I really despise all you filmmakers with your tech and all your fancy fucking movements. I don't give a fuck about your nail polish fucking technical abilities because it drives me nuts. It's shallow, it's lame.
And it's like, this is what I say when I'm teaching filmmaking. You want to be a good filmmaker, Use a tripod and allow the cinema. The movie is not about the cinematographer.
Yeah, you're a great cinematographer if you. If everybody forgets that you are doing your job. Yeah, you have mastered the craft.
You know, if you want to become a fancy cinematographer and get well known for it, make music videos. Yeah, I make music videos all the time and I love making the shots that I do.
But like, if I get to write a film, just keep it, you know, you don't have to keep it simple, but then set your deck a little bit different, you know, and build your shot and work with your production designer. But, you know, if you want to do all these fancy camera movements, you are overcompensating for the fact that you don't know how to direct an actor.
Seth
01:12:47.416 - 01:12:47.960
Yeah, right.
Mozart Gabriel
01:12:48.000 - 01:13:00.808
Because you could have a bad actor. You're like, oh, I'll just fix it with my fancy cinematography. And you know why I know that, Michael Bay.
Yeah, and the reason why I know that is because I said that 4 to 1 here.
Kyle
01:13:00.944 - 01:13:09.100
Now we're getting into my homemade categories. My bro categories. This, you're gonna love this. Ready? This one's called Heist. Heist. Baby.
Seth
01:13:11.920 - 01:13:13.992
That'S so much better than Snyder. Barely know her.
Mozart Gabriel
01:13:14.016 - 01:13:15.464
Yeah, Snyder.
Seth
01:13:15.592 - 01:13:16.664
Barely know her.
Kyle
01:13:16.752 - 01:13:23.186
Because this is. Oh, my God, I'm so stupid.
Mozart Gabriel
01:13:23.328 - 01:13:23.774
They.
Seth
01:13:23.862 - 01:13:28.254
He made me say that in four separate podcasts. Affirmative.
Kyle
01:13:28.302 - 01:13:30.750
Especially because he loved it so much. He kept having to say it.
Seth
01:13:30.790 - 01:13:32.126
Yeah, I love it.
Kyle
01:13:32.278 - 01:13:50.038
And I kept getting this. Not say it. It was amazing. It was the form of torture that I.
It was my only joy from making those episodes because I sat there and edited them going, God, I hate these movies. Heist. Heist, baby. Though the reason I made this category is because I was curious about how they categorize this on the commentary.
They very much refer to it as a heist film.
Seth
01:13:50.094 - 01:13:51.958
Okay. I mean, I would agree with that.
Kyle
01:13:52.014 - 01:14:07.654
Yeah. And it's. It's light on the. On the heist, but it is a heist movie. So I was like, you know, you got heat. You know, you got this.
I'm just like, how we look at this as a heist film. When you look at the characteristics of a heist and what that would make. So how do we go on that?
Seth
01:14:07.822 - 01:14:25.002
I. I'm gonna give it a Rio on this because I think it is a very unique take on a heist.
I like how after that opening sex scene, the very first thing we see is the actual heist. We know absolutely nothing about what is going on, but we watch that moment and then we watch Ethan Hawke leave.
Kyle
01:14:25.066 - 01:14:25.402
Yeah.
Seth
01:14:25.466 - 01:14:40.442
And then what is it? Maybe like 30 minutes later we come back to it from Ethan Hawke's perspective.
And now that we understand what's going on, we're still seeing the heist happen in our heads as we're out here with Ethan Hawke.
Kyle
01:14:40.506 - 01:14:40.890
Yeah.
Seth
01:14:40.970 - 01:15:05.730
And so I actually really enjoy that take on it. And especially with, like, we've been saying, it is a very simple, character driven film.
It doesn't need to be Inception level heists, you know, where everything's super crazy. We're focusing on two brothers. And to keep it that simple and still have such a creative way to showcase the heist itself.
I think he did a great job with that.
Kyle
01:15:05.850 - 01:15:06.670
Love that.
Mozart Gabriel
01:15:06.970 - 01:15:52.420
I love Rick and Morty so much. I love Rick and Morty that it's because heist movies have been permanently stained for me. And that heist episode of Rick and Morty, it's so good.
It's everything. I've always. The minute you say heist, I say, you know, it's like, that's all I think about in heist.
And then when you mentioned heist for this movie, I thought it was like, this movie is a comedic version of a heist movie. This would be funny. Like, imagine like, I was like this big heist film director. Like, yeah, I make heist movies, and then he watches this movie.
Like, you call this a heist? It's like, this is a joke of a heist.
Kyle
01:15:52.840 - 01:15:53.620
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:15:54.200 - 01:16:28.622
And like, I, I, I love everything you just said again. And I was just, like, I was just thinking, like, you just.
You said everything that should have been said, and I wanted to say something that was just, like, off from all of it because it's, It's. For me, this, the, the Hollywood Standard is so far from not the highest movie. It's. It's. It's an epic failed heist film focused on.
On the things, like, if I was a big heist nerd. And I mean this in the way that, like, how I hate the Walking Dead.
Kyle
01:16:28.766 - 01:16:29.230
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:16:29.310 - 01:16:31.614
Like, you know, it's like, oh, I fucking love zombies.
Kyle
01:16:31.742 - 01:16:32.894
It's like, yes.
Mozart Gabriel
01:16:33.022 - 01:16:34.974
Oh, I've got a big boner for Zombies.
Kyle
01:16:35.102 - 01:16:36.526
I got 12 seasons of them. And then.
Mozart Gabriel
01:16:36.598 - 01:16:37.998
And then I watched the Walking Dead.
Kyle
01:16:38.014 - 01:16:40.126
I was like, fucking hate zombies.
Mozart Gabriel
01:16:40.238 - 01:17:09.198
No, I would be like, where are the zombies, man? Where are my zombies? I was like, I'd be so pissed. I, like, I watch, I watched. I'm just like, oh, great.
Just a bunch of humans and dudes just complaining and whining, bitching inside a cab. Like. And then there's these slow zombies that don't even run, and they're really stupid. Like. Yeah. It's like. It's just like.
It's the worst missed opportunity point for zombies. It's not. It's a drama.
Seth
01:17:09.294 - 01:17:09.566
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:17:09.598 - 01:17:19.772
You know, it's like, it's a. It's like a soap opera of just people being bad people. You don't real. You could have the show Walking Dead without the zombies.
Seth
01:17:19.836 - 01:17:20.124
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:17:20.172 - 01:17:21.212
I'm gonna be honest.
Seth
01:17:21.276 - 01:17:21.564
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:17:21.612 - 01:17:35.532
Like, please. I mean, like, it's bare minimum. And that's like the other thing that drives me nuts about, you know, the Last of us too, man.
I wish we could talk about the last of us for hours right now because I just got done watching Children of Men again.
Seth
01:17:35.636 - 01:17:40.428
Oh, I need to see that. I've heard so many good things that I'm so.
Mozart Gabriel
01:17:40.564 - 01:17:55.670
I thought Last of Us was the best video game in the world, and I still do think so. And I. And I always said it's like, video games are some of the greatest storytelling. There's nothing else. They're like, the last of us.
And I was like, oh, shit. Children of Men is the last of us.
Seth
01:17:55.710 - 01:17:56.022
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:17:56.086 - 01:18:01.302
There would be no last of us without children the way every. Just watch it. But have you guys seen it?
Kyle
01:18:01.326 - 01:18:01.750
Yep.
Mozart Gabriel
01:18:01.830 - 01:19:04.056
Yes, all of, all of it. And so I, I, that's how I feel about. If we called this a heist movie, then I would feel that's what. Yeah, it's a joke.
I used to have this film teacher who's like, I think is. I don't know if he's watching, but I used to make jokes about him, but he'd be like, what do you think about this movie?
Well, it's interesting that you have to say maybe the stubbles of the film actually bring of something to sorts of, you know, this, that and the other. And is this really a heist movie or is this really a family movie? Who is one to say if one is the other? I used to make these jokes.
It's like, hey, would you like want to go eat some lunch? It's a very interesting subject, lunch.
Whoever is one to say back in the 1900s, in the 1800-1100s, who is to say breakfast is lunch and lunch is not dinner? The problem is, do you want a burger or pasta? The interesting thing about burger is like, okay, Ben, I'm dishing you.
You know, like we could go on for hours and.
Kyle
01:19:04.118 - 01:19:04.452
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:19:04.516 - 01:19:07.716
Sorry for all the jokes. No, it's great jokes over here.
Kyle
01:19:07.788 - 01:19:09.796
No, it's great. So you go Rio here.
Mozart Gabriel
01:19:09.868 - 01:19:10.164
Yeah.
Kyle
01:19:10.212 - 01:19:27.828
Okay. I like what you said because, you know, I'm trying to get a book published, right.
And like one thing that I experienced like with my agent, like trying to fit stuff into a. They, they have like 12 descriptions for books now.
Like there's three kinds of fiction and it's just like you have to figure out how to fit your book.
Seth
01:19:27.884 - 01:19:28.244
Yeah.
Kyle
01:19:28.292 - 01:19:33.118
Into that. Like there's, there's literary fiction, there's upmarket fiction.
Mozart Gabriel
01:19:33.214 - 01:19:33.662
What?
Kyle
01:19:33.766 - 01:20:05.434
Yeah, and there's, and there's YA fiction. Those are like the three categories of fiction. And, and like sci fi can't be fiction. Sci fi. Sci fi, yeah. It's just like.
And you're just like, my book is none of those things. It's kind of family saga. It's like, well, you can't really be fiction be family. So, you know, it's like, it's just horrible.
So anyway, I love how you said that because I was thinking instance. Like it's a hilarious heist film in a depressing family psychological drama film. Oh yeah. But I do go Rio here.
And the reason being is that film doesn't have to be heat level and Heat's in my top 10. Like it's incredible.
Seth
01:20:05.482 - 01:20:07.290
But it doesn't have to be Ocean's 11.
Kyle
01:20:07.410 - 01:20:08.810
It set the tone.
Mozart Gabriel
01:20:08.970 - 01:20:13.830
That's why I'm laughing the whole time like you were saying all the things I wanted to say. And I'm just like.
Kyle
01:20:16.770 - 01:20:21.898
The emerald couch is hot over here. It's hot. Hot with connection.
Mozart Gabriel
01:20:21.994 - 01:20:39.102
We worked so well together. It was the best AD ever asked for in our production. It was. It was hard. And he really. He really saved my. My mental health. And the best.
In the best way. I couldn't. Couldn't speak anything highly of. If anybody ever needs anybody to work.
Seth
01:20:39.126 - 01:20:42.130
With, please some high Praise over here, Mr. Seth.
Kyle
01:20:42.550 - 01:20:43.970
I like him. Okay.
Seth
01:20:45.190 - 01:20:47.150
Until I make him watch Snyder movies.
Kyle
01:20:47.230 - 01:20:49.694
Yeah. Well, that's what I got for making you watch Wicked Prayer.
Seth
01:20:49.742 - 01:20:56.770
It's true. It's. I literally texted him in the middle of that, you for making me pay $20 to watch a shitty movie.
Kyle
01:20:57.190 - 01:21:06.286
But I like you. What you said actually. And kind of you. Yeah, it nailed. You nailed it. Like it's the first thing you see after the intro.
And it told me that this is a movie about fuckups.
Seth
01:21:06.318 - 01:21:06.670
Yeah.
Kyle
01:21:06.750 - 01:21:10.638
And. And up people up scenarios. People that can't do anything right.
Seth
01:21:10.694 - 01:21:11.118
Yeah.
Kyle
01:21:11.214 - 01:21:16.750
And like you get that from the heist even. It's not fancy. Although I love it when the. When the old lady shoots them.
Seth
01:21:16.790 - 01:21:17.102
Yeah.
Kyle
01:21:17.166 - 01:21:23.664
That was cool. At least before she dies. She got one shot in. She got two. Yeah. And they hurt.
Seth
01:21:23.712 - 01:21:24.080
Yeah.
Kyle
01:21:24.160 - 01:21:34.192
And he's trying to drag himself out. And I just love that like immediately is like, I don't know exactly what this movie is, but the people in it are fuck ups. Yeah, we know that.
And I thought that was beautiful.
Seth
01:21:34.256 - 01:21:34.880
Yeah.
Kyle
01:21:35.040 - 01:21:56.930
One more category. It is five to one and it's too late to. To cast dispersions here. But last category. New York, New York. Sidney Lumet's a New York filmmaker.
In the commentary, they're very. Talk about how he's one of the best New York filmmakers when he talks, you know, makes movies in New York.
How do we feel about this as a New York movie? New York being a character in the movie.
Seth
01:21:57.090 - 01:21:58.930
I am actually going to go chico on this.
Kyle
01:21:58.970 - 01:21:59.378
Yeah.
Seth
01:21:59.474 - 01:22:34.636
Because I couldn't have told you it was New York. When I. Like I said when I watched it, I literally was like, this feels like where I grew up in Atlanta. It could just any city with a suburb like it.
It's interesting because like I'm so used to a New York film being like a Scorsese kind of situation or. Or Woody Allen kind of situation or even like the show White Collar where New York is the character of the, of whatever the project is.
This, it's, it's weird. Like I genuinely would not have realized it was a New York film until they at one point said New York.
Kyle
01:22:34.708 - 01:22:35.052
Yeah.
Seth
01:22:35.116 - 01:22:39.564
One time in the movie. Otherwise they kept saying in the city or in the suburbs.
Kyle
01:22:39.612 - 01:22:41.180
Got to go back to the city, go.
Seth
01:22:41.220 - 01:23:03.274
It was just the city. It. So I didn't even realize it was a New York movie until probably 60% of the way through the movie.
So for me is interesting that, that it is a New York film, but I, I don't think it utilized, if they really wanted it to be a New York film. I don't know that they utilized it in such a way that, that it would have spoken that louder.
Kyle
01:23:03.322 - 01:23:03.722
Sure.
Seth
01:23:03.826 - 01:23:06.298
So for me, I, Yeah, I gotta go under. I gotta go chico on that.
Kyle
01:23:06.354 - 01:23:07.150
Chico.
Mozart Gabriel
01:23:09.010 - 01:23:51.760
The exteriors, like the, the car things, the, that felt very New York. The rawness of it kind of felt like New York. The dad following or them going outside those moments felt like New York.
Because when I lived in New York, there's just those simple, basic streets. And it does feel like really simple, basic streets. It just feels like, do you have a really interesting location?
No, I just like, this street will be fine here. And that's what it felt like. Which is a choice. And I thought that maybe the interiors felt more LA than they did feel like New York.
I mean, I'm living in New York too. I just. None of the, none of the apartments felt New York at all.
Seth
01:23:51.800 - 01:23:52.064
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:23:52.112 - 01:24:17.608
You know, and I think, I don't know, maybe. Maybe I've just been in too many artistic looking places in New York.
But everything in New York feels like artists are art, artistic apartments, you know, a little bit more grungy, a little bit more lofty. And then this all kind of just felt like. Yeah. California.
Seth
01:24:17.704 - 01:24:18.024
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:24:18.072 - 01:24:25.352
And in, you know, the, the place where they rob in that suburb. Oh, yeah. That just felt like, you know, Denver, Colorado.
Seth
01:24:25.416 - 01:24:25.800
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:24:25.880 - 01:24:55.192
You know, it didn't feel like New York. But hey, that's cool. If he's a New York filmmaker and he found these locations that didn't feel like New York, that's pretty rad, you know, like.
Right. At least like he's showing a range of it and you know, that's the New York he knows. If he's New York filmmaker, I'm not gonna question him.
You know, it's like that's, that's what he knows. And I think that's. That's really cool that he showed us a different perspective. An observation of that.
Kyle
01:24:55.346 - 01:25:32.310
So you go up Rio. That's awesome. I actually surprised myself with my selection. That was a beautiful explanation.
I actually did go Chico here, which was hard because on one hand, I felt the same way. Like, I admired the rawness and I appreciated showing a side of New York. I do think the. The.
I do like the simplicity of the story, but there was a dimension missing somewhere. And part of me was like, if this happened in a small town or in this story, like, elevates a lot because, you know, there's this. I mean, this could.
This probably happen, you know, could happen 10, 000 times a day in New York if you wanted it to.
Seth
01:25:32.350 - 01:25:32.662
Yeah.
Kyle
01:25:32.726 - 01:25:47.488
Also, it's a city filled with vices, but I'm like. It's, like, interesting. They didn't lean on that. And maybe it's because it is. He didn't want to go stereotypical because it is the New York he knows.
But I do think one. One thing that could have added a new dimension was if it wasn't in a place like New York.
Seth
01:25:47.544 - 01:25:48.160
Yeah.
Kyle
01:25:48.320 - 01:26:02.224
A place where, you know. You know, typically, like a suburb where things are fine, but you got this chaotic family.
And again, they don't have to explain it, but New York being a backdrop here, didn't, like you said, the interiors didn't necessarily feel like New York.
Seth
01:26:02.312 - 01:26:05.952
Yeah. I almost would have preferred it to have been set in, like, Woodstock, Georgia.
Kyle
01:26:06.016 - 01:26:06.304
Yeah.
Seth
01:26:06.352 - 01:26:08.544
Like just some random ass little town.
Kyle
01:26:08.632 - 01:26:16.800
Yes. Yeah, exactly. Because it starts off and, like, out in the country of. Of the state of New York with Aldo and all that. That's where it starts.
Seth
01:26:16.880 - 01:26:17.540
Yeah.
Kyle
01:26:17.880 - 01:26:30.336
And so I kind of liked that. I kind of like, oh, that looks like where I grew up, you know, and.
But then it goes back to the city, and so that's the only reason I gave it Chico again. I do love how he. He doesn't necessarily focus on the sexy veneer because there's tons of that out there.
Seth
01:26:30.408 - 01:26:30.704
Yeah.
Kyle
01:26:30.752 - 01:26:33.408
But I thought there was a dimension of the story that could have been locational.
Seth
01:26:33.504 - 01:26:33.920
Yeah.
Mozart Gabriel
01:26:34.000 - 01:26:34.544
Yeah.
Kyle
01:26:34.672 - 01:26:37.184
Five to two. Yeah, five to two.
Seth
01:26:37.272 - 01:26:39.248
I think that's still a pretty solid rating, though.
Kyle
01:26:39.304 - 01:26:47.808
Really solid. Philip Seymour Hoffman's performance here, mind boggling. Some really. Just really strong film here. And I enjoyed talking about it with you, too.
Seth
01:26:47.864 - 01:26:48.128
Same.
Mozart Gabriel
01:26:48.184 - 01:26:49.168
Thank you. Yeah, I agree.
Kyle
01:26:49.224 - 01:26:52.000
And thank you for coming and talking about it. Your perspective was amazing.
Mozart Gabriel
01:26:52.080 - 01:26:52.784
Rock and roll.
Kyle
01:26:52.832 - 01:26:54.352
Yeah. Love y'all. I'm Kyle.
Seth
01:26:54.416 - 01:26:55.184
I'm Seth.
Mozart Gabriel
01:26:55.312 - 01:26:56.224
Mozart. Gabriel.
Kyle
01:26:56.272 - 01:26:57.376
That's Mozart. Gabriel.
Seth
01:26:57.408 - 01:26:59.180
Love y'all, See you next week.
Kyle
01:27:01.240 - 01:27:01.960
Movie war.