Tombstone Vs. Wyatt Earp (Ep. 0046)

A movie podcast walks into town... The Western may be the most flexible and dynamic film genre. It's survived over a century while experiencing new forms and shapes, all built on its undeniably effective tested-by-time formula. Not only is Tombstone one of the most beloved versions of that formula but it is also considered the best Western of all time by a large contingency of six-shooter-loving move-goers. And then you have Wyatt Earp...a film that, on paper, had all the makings of a masterpiece. Suffering the critical success of Tombstone, which was released just months pryer, the film was slammed by critics and flopped financially. That being said, it seemed fitting to seize the opportunity to compare two films that tell the same exact story from different perspectives. Get your mustaches on and draw...it's Movie Wars.

TOMBSTONE

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MOVIE INFO

Wyatt Earp (Kurt Russell) and his brothers, Morgan (Bill Paxton) and Virgil (Sam Elliott), have left their gunslinger ways behind them to settle down and start a business in the town of Tombstone, Ariz. While they aren't looking to find trouble, trouble soon finds them when they become targets of the ruthless Cowboy gang. Now, together with Wyatt's best friend, Doc Holliday (Val Kilmer), the brothers pick up their guns once more to restore order to a lawless land.

Rating: R

• Genre: Western, Action

• Original Language: English

• Director: 

George P. Cosmatos

Producer: 

Sean Daniel

, 

James Jacks

, 

• Bob Misiorowski

Writer: 

• Kevin Jarre

• Release Date (Theaters): Dec 25, 1993  Wide

• Release Date (Streaming): Jul 1, 2014

• Box Office (Gross USA): $55.9M

• Runtime: 2h 7m

WYATT EARP

The epic biography of western lawman Wyatt Earp, who at an early age, is taught that nothing matters more than family and the law. He becomes a respected sheriff in Dodge City and Tombstone. Joined by his brothers and Doc Holliday, Earp wages war on the dreaded Clanton and McLaury gangs.

Rating: PG-13

• Genre: Biography

• Original Language: English

• Director: 

Lawrence Kasdan

Producer: 

Jim Wilson

, 

Kevin Costner

, 

• Lawrence Kasdan

• Release Date (Theaters): Jun 24, 1994  Wide

• Release Date (Streaming): Jan 1, 2008

• Box Office (Gross USA): $24.6M

• Runtime: 3h 11m

• Distributor: Warner Bros. Pictures

• Production Co: Warner Bros., Tig Productions

Thank you Rotten Tomatoes!

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Movie Wars Episode 0046 Tombstone vs. Wyatt Ain't nothing okay about this corral, let me tell you what Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode 0046 of the Movie Wars Podcast We're back! We are back! Skin that smoke wagon and see what happens, this is Kyle 46? We've done 46 of these? 46! I'm your Huckleberry, and I'm Drew.

[00:00:33] Show me a man who has no enemies and I'll show you a man who's never stood for s**t. Lot of quotability here. We are doing Tombstone, Tombstone versus Wyatt Earp. What a fantastic matchup. On paper, that is. On paper, on IMDb. Listen, we work so hard to be fans, not critics. But, uh, we'll get to that. Like Drew said, we will get to that.

[00:00:57] It really is so pertinent that we're doing this [00:01:00] pair of Westerns. We just did Lethal Weapon 2 vs. Bad Boys, and we kind of went on about just how prolific and long lasting the buddy cop genre is. I feel like it's funny we're doing Westerns, because Westerns are like the most pliable, flexible. genre of film ever.

[00:01:13] It's one of the oldest. It has survived all these years, and there are, like, you look at the modern era, the golden era, there are so many great movies that you can point at. Uh, uh, any year that westerns were made, a stranger walks into town. It just works every freaking time. And that's what I love about westerns.

[00:01:28] And I actually, you know what's funny? funny is I give a lot of credit to Red Dead Redemption 2. I, I grew up hating westerns. Going back to my grandparents, my racist grandpa liked westerns so I f**ing hated them. And you know, I actually still think that over time he probably became racist after he kept choking down my grandmother's dry cookies.

[00:01:47] That rotten b**ch. Yeah, and he just every time he choked down one of those godforsaken oatmeal cookies He's like I hate this world. But anyway, I do give red dead redemption to a ton of credit I had zero interest in westerns, but because rockstar made [00:02:00] it I played it. I've played that game three. That's not a movie, right?

[00:02:02] Yeah, I know it's not a movie. That's what i'm saying though, man The time I saw red dead redemption in theaters opened my mind to watching western Okay, because the game you've played it. I know it's not your style, but you've played it's incredible Um, it's just an incredible story and it kind of got me it opened me up to that genre And then I finally watched the dollar series Clint Eastwood.

[00:02:17] Obsessed with those three movies. So I'm totally into it now. One thing that I love, and Drew you would like this point, I feel like westerns, one thing they do really well, a good western does this, is they almost present their, whoever the gang is, or whoever the stranger that comes into town, almost like they have a myth It's like a mythical superhero.

[00:02:34] We don't necessarily know a lot about them, but there are superheroes that are super bound by rustic reality. And I love that about it. Cause like when you're watching tombs, no wider and doc holiday, they do feel like superheroes, just like realistic down to earth superheroes. But the way that they glorify the protagonist and these really incredulous villains and Westerns, it's just such a classic formula that never gets old.

[00:02:53] Um, so I love that. We're kind of tag teaming it after a buddy cop series, which buddy cops have the same thing, this tried and true kind of [00:03:00] almost algorithm that if we do a good job, if we get a great cast. A great duo, some good dialogue, some good action, a great director with some great set pieces. Like, this is gonna be You just described making a good film.

[00:03:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, but with the buddy cop duos. But yes, you're right. I did just describe every good movie. It's like, if it's got a good plot and good acting, good direction. Holy s**t, this is weird. This is a good movie. Good actors? Might be pretty good. Budget? It's got a Budget, a director, what, they got a f**ing director on this movie!

[00:03:26] Yeah. If they had cameras. f**ing cameras! I love that you said the buddy cop thing because not only is Tombstone a great ensemble movie, it's a fantastic buddy movie in that I love the way that Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer play off each other. I think they have a lot of that kind of buddy cop chemistry all throughout, which is interesting.

[00:03:43] You're so right, and it's interesting, one does it better than the other, right? I mean, you don't get all the history just for the listeners. Now, I read, did a lot of reading. I read some Tombstone and some Wyatt Earp biographies to prep for this because there's so much. Fact and fiction. I wanted to, didn't get to.

[00:03:55] Yeah, I read one, I'll tell you the author later. But there's a book called Tombstone. Then it has a long [00:04:00] subtitle about dispelling the myths of tombstone and, but um, anyway, there is so much kind of like moving of fact and fiction and Tombstone is obviously more fiction, but it's really interesting, me, to me, from a storytelling perspective, how little background we have in Tombstone.

[00:04:13] So say you've never read anything about Wyatt Earp. You watch Tombstone and the way they perform it and wrote that and play it, you get that, those two have this kind of bromance, this really tight relationship. You don't necessarily. On the other hand, Wyatt Earp, they try to give you more background. I bought it a lot, a lot less.

[00:04:29] I just did not believe they didn't earn it. And it's just amazing, and it just shows you kind of like we have, and that was my next point. This is kind of the first time we've taken two films that tackle the same exact subject matter, right? It's the same story at a certain point, like exactly the same.

[00:04:42] And they choose, they had different, made different choices as to when to drop you into the story, but it ended up being from the middle, at least the middle to the end was the same. Yeah, they drop you in in a different place and it's really interesting and really the, the defining factor is that one really tried harder to be factual, but that in that situation they ended up, [00:05:00] it almost like they were reading the facts off of a cue card and Tombstone is very fiction, but you buy into it so hard because it's almost romantic.

[00:05:07] I would say there's a romantic kind of umbrella over Tombstone. Yeah. Well, forgive me if I'm stepping on randos, but Costner was originally attached to Tombstone, and he didn't like that the script went more after the ensemble. He felt that it needed to be a Wyatt Earp story. So he left Tombstone to do Wyatt Earp.

[00:05:25] Tombstone kept it about the ensemble and ended up being a much, much greater movie, even though on paper, Wyatt Earp should have been right there, you know, with it, if not better. I personally know probably a dozen people who count Tombstone as their favorite film of all time. Oh, it's, yeah. Yeah, it's.

[00:05:38] Definitely top 50, but probably top 25 for me, maybe 10. Yeah, like when people ever talk about Tombstone that know the movie, it is like an important film to them. There's important themes in that movie pertaining to loyalty and brotherhood that I think really resonate with people. It's one of the most quotable movies I've ever watched.

[00:05:59] I mean, it's, [00:06:00] there are funny. Quotes there are powerful quotes. I mean it really offers all of it and every character is quotable The quotes are coming from every bill paxton's bringing in elliot elliott's bringing him in kurt russell even billy bob dobrocious Yeah, they're just yeah, even the villains michael bean, you know longer longer It's so great.

[00:06:19] It truly is two different tales and what's funny, you hear all, and you guys know, probably the biggest pet peeve I've recurringly mentioned on this podcast is that I hate big, dumb cast. And when I say big, dumb cast, giant ensembles that don't do jack. Monuments Men has always kind of been the movie that I use as kind of the, the slaughterhouse for that idea.

[00:06:36] There is a new one in town and it is called f**ing Wyatt Earp. Um, and that big, that cast was huge. So big it hurt. Really impressive. When I just, as the credits were rolling at the beginning, during that long, completely unnecessary foray into the cornfield, while Wyatt was a b a child, who cares. But I was, they were list the only interesting part about that is they were listing the cast, and I was like, wait, her?

[00:06:58] Wait, that guy? Just over [00:07:00] and over again, I couldn't believe how many people were in this movie. Your girl, Tia Leone, we just talked about her. I know, I was so stoked! She's just popping out of nowhere. Yeah, she's a whore. Yeah. Ha ha ha! Dirty Rodden. Uh, Catherine O'Hara. From Home Alone? Was this the movie? We all in this room just watched Home Alone with our kids.

[00:07:15] I mean, fricking Bill Pullman. I mean, everybody from the 90s was in that movie. Yeah. It just reminds you that you can have a cast or you can't. It all comes down to directing actors. And that's why people like Scorsese and Coppola, they continually do great work. And I read this about both of them. It's like, these movies wouldn't be great if it wasn't for them, because they know how to actually, not just direct a film, but direct actors.

[00:07:35] It felt like in Wyatt Earp, and again, we are fans, not critics, but I feel like Wyatt Earp deserves the s**t, we're gonna give it, they, someone didn't know how to direct actors. They all were dry. They were all monotone. Yeah. Anyway, we haven't got to impressions yet, but the last point I wanted to make, what's interesting about what you said about Costner not doing Tombstone is that they were, there was an overlap for about six months where they were both being filmed at the same time.

[00:07:56] And you'll, you'll both I do believe [00:08:00] it was Wyatt Earp. And that one came out first? Nope. Other way around. Sorry. Wyatt Earp came out six months after Tombstone. And this is, you'll love this point. In the 90s, there was this period, and you'll probably both remember this, where there were these twosies, where movies would be about the same thing.

[00:08:13] For example, we had Armageddon Deep Impact, Wyatt Earp and Tombstone, and then we also had Dante's Peak and Volcano during the giant catastrophe film. Dante's Peak and Volcano came out within months of each other. Well, because I think, like, if you do something like that, you have the potential to piggyback.

[00:08:28] back on the zeitgeist, just the general awareness of people about that subject matter. And if they loved the first film, there's a good chance that they're kind of like invested in that concept or that subject matter on some level. And they're maybe going to go spend money and go see your other film.

[00:08:41] And I think that's what that was. It was just like, Oh, Universal is making this movie about meteors coming at the earth. Well, now Sony's going to go make a movie about meteors coming to the earth because people want to see meteors, you know? So it's all based on market research and data that is telling, Oh, people are into this now.

[00:08:56] Okay. Oh. Yeah, Westerns are back. Okay, we got to make our Western really [00:09:00] unfortunate. You got to wonder and you kind of mentioned this because Phil was on a flight. You flew to LA, watched Tombstone. Great flight. You flew back to Nashville, watched Wyatt Earp. Horrible flight back. That was, it was the, the craziness behind that was, yeah, I, I watched Tombstone on my flight out to Los Angeles, which flying from Nashville to L.

[00:09:18] A. is a much longer flight than flying from L. A. back to Nashville because of like the whole spin of the earth thing, like to the tune of like an extra hour. And so the flight home, which was a shorter flight by a not insignificant amount of time, felt like it took forever because I was watching Wyatt Earp the whole time and I started it when we took off and finished it when we were landing and I've never been happier to get off a flight.

[00:09:39] And it was just because that movie just dragged three hours and 10 minutes of Kevin Costner using the same. Good. to a piece of dialogue when his brother gets shot as he would taking a f**ing s**t. Yeah, man, I, you know, hate to like, go down the critic path, like, for real, and I know we talk s**t about films and, you know, actors and actresses on this and, you know, and then we, you know, dance around with the whole we're not critics, we're fans thing, [00:10:00] but it's really, really hard to talk about this matchup and not talk about what A bizarre and pretty undebatably inferior film, Wyatt Earp is.

[00:10:08] Just in the grand scheme of films. It is not a good movie. Is now a good time to dive into what happened? Here's what we do know. Kasdan was coming off of some major career wins. Obviously, he did. He wrote, you said, Return of the Jedi. Like, how do you Because he was never in the director's chair for any of those.

[00:10:23] I mean, just like, well, that's true. He just wrote them. Yeah, he wrote Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Bodyguard, Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, Force Awakens, and Solo. He wrote all of those. Oh my gosh. So he's a great director. Great screenwriter. Great screenwriter. He directed, though. He does have other, so he directed Dreamcatcher, the Stephen King adaptation, which I thought was mediocre, but better than this.

[00:10:42] Silverado. Well, Wyatt Earp may have been a good script. It's hard to know, because the line delivery was so horrible. I mean, it certainly didn't, didn't have the quotes that Tombstone had. I mean, the pacing in Wyatt Earp was just atrocious. Well, I tried to do a lot of research. You guys know how much research I do.

[00:10:57] I read books, and I always try to watch the special features. None [00:11:00] of these movies had a commentary available. Really? Yeah. Not even Tombstone? Not even Tombstone. I think they are repackaging one for 4K. Dude, I'll stand in line for that 4K Tombstone. Like you said, I'm looking for a movie to kick off my list to put Tombstone on there.

[00:11:12] Cause, you know, on my list of 50 great films, that's actually, uh, you know, probably 200. I have 200 top 50 movies in my, yeah. I think they call that a top 200 list. Who's they? I want to meet them. We call that the Big Ten. We call Hey! Nice. Bazinga. So yeah, but you know, I couldn't find a ton of research. In fact, in all the research I did, Tombstone had a more tumultuous Yeah.

[00:11:35] Yeah, it was more Our Boy Cosmatos. Right. Again, got ghost directed. Yeah. Again, just like Cobra. Okay. So, okay, so still right . So it's that just like Cobra. I was gonna say, 'cause Kurt Russell waited until George p Osmos died to, to basically tell the world that he was writing everything. Like he would hand him a shot list every day and say, this is what we're getting.

[00:11:56] Kurt Russell dragged a tombstone. Well, but wow. To add to that [00:12:00] drama and we, you'll go, we will cut this for randos. I mean, because this is definitely my randos, but this is great conversation. What else happened was Michael Bean. off and refuted that because he was friends with the original director, Kevin Jarre, and he backed off because he was not delivering the film on time and he was starting to go over budget and he didn't feel like he could finish and direct it under the circumstances he was under.

[00:12:19] So he left. Michael Bean then wanted to leave, um, because of that. And so, but he ended up staying, but he got pissed. I don't know if he got pissed, but he refuted. He said, Kurt Russell did not direct Tombstone. So he actually refuted it, which is weird. Like, you know, you don't hear a lot about Michael Bean wars, you know, Michael Beans being dramatic again.

[00:12:36] Like, you don't eat. He's like, when does he Pop his head up. Do we want to go and go into impressions? I feel like we already offered them, but yeah, I think we already offered them. Yeah. Tombstone. I mean, I saw that when I was a young kid, I don't know, probably too young, but both my older brothers and my dad loved Tombstone.

[00:12:50] And I think it's something to do with kind of the family aspect, the brotherhood, you know, that it meant a lot to kind of our family growing up. And so I already, I always knew that I liked that [00:13:00] movie. And so revisiting it for this, I was blown away. Like I could not be more, I probably enjoyed it more now, like just being a grown man and kind of like tapping into kind of, I don't know, I don't want to say their life experiences, but being a provider and someone that's like taking care of a family and you know, that has a wife and brother, whatever.

[00:13:18] I couldn't believe how like emotional it was and how like the line, it was funny. It kind of offered all, all that you want from a movie. Like there was great romance, there was, you know, adventure and action and loss. And like, it was, it was a thrill ride. And there's so many quotable lines. The villain was absolutely lovably hateable.

[00:13:38] Oh, yeah. Curly Bill, dude. Oh, I just loved to hate that guy. And Val Kilmer, that, that performance is one of my favorite characters of all time. Like he just absolutely. Wyatt Earp I watched for the first time for this podcast, and I, I mean, I had modest expectations. I obviously had seen the Rotten Tomatoes numbers, and I had heard some people talk about it.

[00:13:58] I mean, I was, I was disappointed. [00:14:00] Like, it, it, the pacing was absolutely horrible, the acting was stale, you know, the soundtrack seemed almost non existent. Which is so sad. I feel like in a Western, like the soundtrack is all, needs to play a character almost. Gotta have Rodeo, baby. And it just didn't, uh, it didn't deliver.

[00:14:16] I found myself like really hoping the movie would be over. And that's another thing, like Tombstone, the pacing was just like popping. I mean, maybe you could, you can make a case that like the theater scene could have been cut down a little bit. And there was some minutes that they could have trimmed off, but it was pretty tight.

[00:14:29] Two hours, 10 minutes, kind of what you want from a movie set in the West, but. Wyatt Earp, good lord. It's a whole extra hour. Probably should have been a mini series, like the way that it was paced and set up. Like, they should have just spread that s**t out and put it on Netflix. Yeah, you're taking all my points.

[00:14:44] It could have been a mini series. I put that in my notes. Yeah, I'm sorry. No, that's great. It just seemed like it was Two, they were trying to accomplish way, way, way, way too much. I love the creative choice that tombstone made to just drop us in the action, baby. Like just right there in the gunfight. Like, whoa, we're here, we're in it.

[00:14:59] [00:15:00] Who are these guys? Okay. They're good, they're bad. Let's go. Rather than like, okay, why? It's a small lad with his children, you know, siblings in a corn field. It's like, it just was. I was asleep 10 minutes in. More or less echo everything Drew said. Tombstone, this was actually the first time I'd ever seen it.

[00:15:15] I had pretty high expectations going into that film, because like I said before, I could pro I have like at least a dozen people I know that count Tombstone as their favorite film of all time. Some people, it's like a, a lifestyle thing. They derive so much meaning from this movie. And so I went in kind of expecting it to be great, and it was.

[00:15:33] Like, I loved that movie. Unfortunately, I had to watch it on a Which meant, you know my phone screen, which is small So i'm looking forward to watching this again on like a bigger screen Hopefully when they do the 4k release, but man, what a great movie Like drew said it had everything that you would want.

[00:15:46] The pacing was great. The acting was really fun to me It's a perfect example of like you don't need to be historically dead on with everything to pay proper respects to a really [00:16:00] interesting life story, and I think that Tombstone is one of the best examples of being respectful to somebody's life story who was an important figure in American history without like boring everybody with the details and on, on, on the flip side, Wyatt Earp, I think there was probably a lot of good intention there, like you don't make a three hour and 10 minute western epic with the budget they probably did that on and with the cast that they had in that and with the shots that they got and everything unless you're trying to like give even more respect to somebody's life story.

[00:16:26] But the problem with that movie was it tried to be everything for everyone by covering history by covering interesting plot points by covering literally the entire life of this prolific figure in American history that, like, single handedly influenced an entire movie genre, um, whose, like, pallbearers at his funeral were Western actors at the time.

[00:16:44] Wow. The people that were carrying his casket were, like, emotionally destroyed because this man was the foundation for their art or whatever. Fascinating. Yeah, I didn't know that. He consulted, and when they first started making westerns in the nineteen Like a mythic legend of, uh, western lore. In the [00:17:00] early 1900s, he started consulting on films.

[00:17:01] John, John Wayne credits his walk, the way he walks, to Yeah, like, Wyatt Earp was around as, as late as the 1920s in the U. S., and so, the movie industry was booming, and westerns were a thing. thing and they were one of the earliest genres and the most prolific Western actors at that time carried his casket and so like, you know, there's a, there's a lot of ground to cover with that and I think the movie Wyatt Earp tried to do that, but when you try to be everything for everyone, you end up being nothing for anyone and that's kind of, I felt like what Wyatt Earp was.

[00:17:26] That was well said. They were trying to do, like Drew said, they'd have been better off turning it into like a three movie trilogy or a mini series, which that was a big thing in the 90s too. They had mini series on like PBS and stuff. Those were a thing. That movie was just a swing and a miss. But it's still important to cover because it's rare that you find two films released at the same time that cover the exact same story.

[00:17:47] There were some shot for shot identical situations in those films. There were several times like, I remember this scene, but with the other cast, you know what I mean? Like even Bill Paxton died better. He got shot better at the pool table. He [00:18:00] was, you know, yeah. Like right when they're, he goes to shoot that pool ball in wider.

[00:18:04] Cause I'd already watched tombstone. I was like, Oh, I know what's going to happen here. And it does. And it's like the same. So it was interesting to see those same historical points, uh, shown from two different perspectives. I'd say that's really the positive from wider. This is another perspective, maybe.

[00:18:17] Usually what we do, um, under most circumstances, and just a little, just, you know, how the sausage is made, is if we get a feeling that one movie is either gonna be a landslide, or one movie's actually bad, um, cause, you know, sometimes you've seen the movie, but it's been a long time, you don't remember.

[00:18:30] You've, it's been glorified a bit in your memory, you know. Yes, but we kept this because, like, what Phil exact, said exactly. These movies came out at the same time, about the same exact story, different perspectives, but the same story. Both. Casts, whatever you want to say about Kazdin and Cosmatos both have their own Cosmatos was also accused of being a ghost director on Cobra because in Stallone, Stallone did openly admit to directing that, not him.

[00:18:55] Regardless, at least competent people on paper, everything [00:19:00] was good to go in to see how wildly different they are to see how you can see two different casts. Performed so differently is, is a really interesting case study. I'm glad we kept it. You know, tombstone, like I said, as a, as a kid, I didn't love westerns.

[00:19:12] My grandpa, who I do not like, loved westerns, so I didn't watch them for a long time. I played Red Dead Redemption too. Kind of opened my mind and then I was like, you know what, I'm in a CI went through a Clint Eastwood thing, kinda like you went through your Al Pacino thing, where you watched everything he did.

[00:19:25] I was like in, I was watching Dirty Harry and then I was like, oh, am I really gonna watch Fistful of Dollars? Dollars? I don't like westerns. Watched it in love. with the Dollars Trilogy. Just love it. The westerns, I just, I just love them. Especially Clint Eastwood. Unforgiven. So it's, it's something that I actually is, has transformed.

[00:19:40] I, I like, you know me, you've known me since 2006. I like the same stuff that I liked when I was young, and if I like new stuff, it's old stuff that I'm just undiscovering now. Like a couple years ago, I love the Rolling Stones, you know, been around since the 60s, but they're new to me. I love them now.

[00:19:54] That's kinda how I'm built. Tombstone, it just felt so fresh. The dialogue, it's [00:20:00] snappy, the chic. I love the Fashion everything about it was just in the pace. Yeah hats and mustaches and suits and vests. It's really the boots It's a whole thing very interesting unique aesthetic and you know It's a good movie when like it pulls you in so much You're like kind of would like to have lived during that time, especially now with cell phones and yes Now the way I exist today would not survive well in that environment But i'd like to think if I was born during hard times i'd be a harder man, you know But who knows it's easy to glamorize the west in the West, especially for men, because there's gambling, there's brothels, there's whizzes, there's you know, guns, boots, horseback, I mean it's, it's like, kind of like a male fantasy in a way.

[00:20:41] And you literally, there's no, there's no way to like, there's no blood evidence of anything. It's like. It's like, I didn't kill him, Jimmy saw it. Jimmy, is that true? Yeah. All right. You're innocent. Yeah, exactly. I felt that was actually a really comical part of both of those films. It's like the trials were like straw man bulls**t.

[00:20:58] Like the whole time. Like, well, [00:21:00] what'd you see? Well, this, what'd you see? I don't know. All right, you're good. There's no forensics. What the hell? You know, and what's funny is, is when I read the book, uh, the tombstone book about just kind of demystifying all the stuff in the movie, like it was just so common.

[00:21:14] Like, um, the Clanton family, one of the interesting things I read about the Clantons is like when all, a lot of these criminals ended up in tombstone because they were, because Texas was becoming more progressive and Texas was starting to deal with less. Uh, criminality, and they were starting to formalize the law.

[00:21:28] They wanted less outlaws, less cowboys. And so a lot of the people in the Cowboys gang in Tombstone were derivatives of people that, like, went through Mexico, heard about Arizona being part of this forging into the West as they started to discover California, and populate and build out California. And so a lot of these people took a gamble and literally went to Arizona and Tombstone, and Tombstone was kind of this, kind of seen as this weak area because they were trying to be progressive.

[00:21:51] They were embracing European fashion, and they wanted laws. But they were also didn't have a lot of infrastructure. The Clantons literally went to [00:22:00] Arizona, squatted on land, stole, they, they, they think stole. They had 700 heads of cattle. And a lot of people thought that, they're like, oh, this is great, they're bringing beef.

[00:22:09] They're like, they're bringing beef to our region. We don't have a lot because it's a new region. They stole all this beef. They didn't even buy the land. They had no record of buying the land. And half of them aren't even really Clantons. Like, half the game, that wasn't even their name. People would say they were married, but they weren't married.

[00:22:22] People would change their name. There was literally no record. Yeah. Anything. Yeah. So I don't want to ramble on much longer, but just to kind of paint the picture of the region and I don't know what this has to do with my impressions, but anyway, it's more just kind of, you know, waxing about the point that, you know, and we've talked a little bit about this when we cover Braveheart, but to make a great story and to tell a great story, I'd almost rather you fudge some things.

[00:22:45] Yes. I don't need a documentary on true events and what, like we can study that and books in school and stuff. But like, if you're just entertaining me in two hours, like, just tell me a story. Sure, base it on true events, cause that, that brings allure and kind of, like, makes you want to [00:23:00] explore the subject further, but.

[00:23:01] Yeah, totally. Let's keep it fun and tight and make some things up along the way. The biggest point I have besides the big dumb cast on Wyatt Earp is that they, they, the big dumb, I love saying that. That's like a thing now. That's like my thing. That's my biggest pet peeve. Like, when they, when you have like Heat, when you watch Heat, you're like, Incredible.

[00:23:15] They had a giant cast. It's perfect. Yeah, well, it can go both ways. That's the thing. Yeah, exactly. Like, there are some movies that do it incredibly well and other movies that you're like, Eee. Yeah. How did no one throw the flag here? There were like a million elite professionals as a part of this film. How did it turn out so bad?

[00:23:28] None of them were in the same movie. What I'll, what I'll close with on my impressions is W Earp tried to be more factual. They did fudge some things and they, they chose interesting areas. But by all, in all, with all the, with the biographies that I read and the books that I read, they were more closely aligned, like not fully, but pretty aligned on a lot of facts.

[00:23:45] They had this information, they had this giant cast. Somehow I felt like I didn't buy any of it. The giant skips bothered me. Like, I love how at the end we just skipped to Alaska 17 years. I mean, it, it was kind of a cool, the ending was the best. Seen in the movie Arbitrary. Seven years [00:24:00] later. Yeah, 17 years later.

[00:24:01] Six. Six months. Little bit early in the movie. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Seven years later, six months later, 17 years. It's like, what? Yeah. Why is a life story? Yeah. They didn't spend enough time on, on anything to make it interesting. And the time that they did spend on things, they didn't make it interesting. Yeah. You know, like they just.

[00:24:15] In general, it was a big old ball drop from top to bottom. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't buy it at all that Wyatt Earp had become more grizzled, you know, by his experiences, because that's what happened to the real Wyatt Earp is that he did go through some stuff. He had a, you know, his wife died and, um, you know, a lot of the things are true in Wyatt Earp, but like the way, and I love Costner, you love Costner, like we have covered him a few times on this pod and I love, I love his work.

[00:24:35] But I just didn't buy the transformation from Wyatt Earp who was in love and infatuated with a girl that died of typhoid fever. He was so monotone the whole time. He was the same guy. And it doesn't make any sense. I mean, you look at Costner coming off a field of dreams and dances with wolves, right? I mean, this is a guy that's kind of like on the apex of his career.

[00:24:53] Robin Hood is on the horizon. And he delivers that. It just, it doesn't add up. He's the same the entire time. There's [00:25:00] no energy. Okay. There's a couple of Joe's and wider that I thought were improvements that on tombstone, which maybe I should say this supporting cast, Joanna going, I thought was a better, um, Josie.

[00:25:11] Oh, just more attractive. Well, not only that the girl, okay, this was, I was texting you guys this and I couldn't remember. f**ing name. Josephine from Tombstone was insufferable. Like that was my really only my main gripe with that movie was that girl. She felt like she was like a nineties mom that they just like wholesale transplanted.

[00:25:30] Like she was like a favor casting. Like, you know, you get those in some films where you're like, you don't fit at all. She sucked. Yeah, that makes sense. And then the other one was Bessie, her name is Jo Beth Williams. She was the first woman, she was one of the wives, when they kind of colluded, the wives, and they were like, we don't want to leave, and stuff.

[00:25:45] I thought she was the first character, outside of Dennis Quaid's character, that brought any energy, and any kind of like, finally, I was like, actually paying attention and leaning forward when she was talking, because like, wow, she's, she's actually good, and brought, like, she was kind of in her own movie, she was doing her own [00:26:00] thing, and nobody was matching her level, but I thought she was great.

[00:26:02] It's really interesting where in Wyatt Earp the brilliance came from, when there was there and Quaid was one of them and then the, all the female actresses actually were pretty much a step up. I mean, hot take, I honestly personally thought Dennis Quaid's performance of Doc Holliday was superior.

[00:26:15] Interesting. We've got a category for that. Save your juice. I enjoyed his performance. It was good. I mean, I don't have any quips with it. The only quip I have with it is that he was, he looked odd in it because he was doing so well and everyone else was s**tting so bad that he looked strange. He was, yeah, he was so good.

[00:26:29] Cause he was actually acting. Yeah. He wasn't like Costner who like rolled out of bed, went to makeup and then stood there in front. I. Cue cards and was like. I don't know what we're gonna do. Josie, okay, I guess I'm gonna go here now. I'm sad. It's like, what the f**? This is not an interesting man. Randos.

[00:26:46] Man, it feels good to say that again. It's been a while, huh? This is really great. So we talked about Val Kilmer. He's kind of known as, not, not full on Method. He's not Daniel Day Lewis. It's Marlon Brando level of method, but he's, you know, he's got some method to him. Um, he asked that his deathbed be filled with [00:27:00] ice so that he would shake in his deathbed.

[00:27:02] So I guess he couldn't shake on his own. So he needed the ice to do it. Really? Mm hmm. And so that, that, which I love. Interesting. I love. As a polar plunger, you appreciate that. I do appreciate it. As a, as a cold plunger. Yes. Yes. Me and my 25 pound ice blocks in my water. I do appreciate that. And you're going to love this.

[00:27:17] Texted you this as like a, like, you're not going to believe who was going to be cast as Doc Holliday. Originally, Willem Dafoe was supposed to take that. No way. That You texted me that? I must've missed that. Well, I texted you, I was like, you're not gonna believe, and you never responded, so I didn't do the reveal.

[00:27:28] I don't wanna believe either. You know what's funny, Phil? I cliffhangered him with that question, and then he cliffhangered me by not responding. I'm just like, all day, like, is he gonna respond? Should I just say Willem Dafoe? Come on! That's when you react to your own text message. Like, with a question mark.

[00:27:45] Yeah. That's, that's a dick move. Especially for your best friend. I'm a terrible Willem Dafriend. Yeah. Oh my god, that's Defer to defriend. Um, but yeah, and the reason he didn't take it because he actually, there was a [00:28:00] little bit of a stain on him after he did The Last Temptation of Christ with Martin Scorsese.

[00:28:04] He actually, there was a long tail of kind of like protests and Oh right, oh right. I'm glad they didn't cast him as much as I love. Yeah, the distribution company said they would pull out if Defoe had took that role. That's why they passed him up. They didn't want to distribute him after Temptation of Christ.

[00:28:18] Last Temptation of Christ. I hear that. Sometimes you gotta let some time pass. Wyatt Earp actually, uh, so he died in 1929, uh, as we mentioned, but in 1915, he had become a consultant on Westerns, so they started to use him. So he came on set, talked about his life, and talked, and so he, in a way, not only did his life shape the, what Westerns would look like by his stories, but he actually was on set teaching actors and things like that, so that's really cool, full circle.

[00:28:41] That is cool. It's interesting because so much of his life has been mythologized. That's something I've learned in these books. There are thousands of different versions. of the stories we see in these movies. Yeah. Like, there's just so much mythology. Like, the OK Corral shooting. That was actually more about Virgil Earp.

[00:28:55] Like, Wyatt was there, but that was actively Virgil taking the lead and doing that. But in neither of [00:29:00] these movies was he, was Virgil a predominant guy. It's all about Wyatt. But, dude, Virgil and Morgan were both just as legendary in real life. Yeah. Um, so really interesting he came full circle. Um, I love this.

[00:29:11] I'm a huge Billy Bob Thornton fan, and when, every time I see him in Tombstone, I'm like, they just got Yeah. Just randomly, Billy Bob Thornton's gonna be this guy. Um, they didn't give him any lines. They didn't give him any script. They had like an idea. It's kind of like taxi driver Robert De Niro when he's looking in the mirror.

[00:29:24] They just said, we're not gonna tell you what to do. Here's the idea. You just go do it. I don't know about you guys, but given that fact, he crushed that. He is such a dick. Oh yeah, he was He changes his tune real fast though. And equally as good performing his tail being between his legs. Like, I bought that, that full circle, like, when he tells him he's Wyatt Earp, he's like, yeah, right, and the moment he realizes outside the saloon that he is, in fact, Wyatt Earp, he looks like his stomach had been ripped out of his body.

[00:29:50] It was great. Typical standing up to the bully thing, you know? Yeah, I love it. And he was kind of riding on the glory of, uh, of Sling Blade. So he was, he had gotten a lot of notoriety, and so they had given him that opportunity to ad [00:30:00] lib his way through that scene. We've talked a lot about the facial hair.

[00:30:02] We have a category for this later. This may be dumb to say, but you, I did ask myself, are those mustaches real? In Tombstone, those Mustaches are in fact real. I was wondering that too. They look real. They look good. And that was at the behest. Uh, Cosmatos demanded that. That's great. If he did actually direct the movie and not Kurt Russell, he did demand that they grow their own mustaches and they look fantastic if I don't mind, if you don't mind me saying so.

[00:30:23] I can't grow a mustache. By the way, if you're not in the room, Drew has a magnificent beard. Every time I see him, his beard is just filling in. I'll be honest with you guys. I strongly considered shaving my beard, but leaving my stache. Just, uh, when you opened the door tonight, I was like, in character. Oh, that would have been.

[00:30:37] You should have kept them, like, handlebars, like, straight up. Why didn't you do it? Probably because your wife would have hated it. Like, you would have, she would have hated a stache. Well, then I would have to shave the stache, and then I'd have no facial hair. Yeah, and I can't grow facial hair. This is, I literally haven't shaved in, I don't know, two weeks.

[00:30:50] Are you serious? Yeah. This is my Filipino blood. Maybe it's the ice plant. If I didn't shave for two weeks, I'd be like full. It would happen. Yeah. It's my Filipino blood. It doesn't work for that. Oh, I've met some [00:31:00] hairy Filipinos. My brother in law is one. This is the last rando for tombstone. We've already kind of alluded to it, but, uh, it was rumored for, uh, after, like you said, cause models died, who directed our beloved Cobra, one of my favorite films of all time.

[00:31:11] He was the ghost director on that. And if you remember our Cobra episode where we went against raw deal, uh, when Stallone would randomly not be directing, which was rare cause models would come on and bully people and scream at people because he felt like, intimidated that he wasn't actually directing the movie.

[00:31:24] Well, we don't actually have any evidence, like Cobra, where we do have a lot of evidence. We don't have the actual evidence here, because Kurt Russell said that, uh, when Cosmodus died, that he actually directed Tombstone. What's interesting, though, so Val Kilmer alluded that he did, Kurt Russell said he did, but Michael Biehn was friends with Kevin Jarre.

[00:31:39] I hope I'm saying that correctly. It's J A R R E. Is it Jarre or Jarre? No idea. We'll just say Jarre, because we're in Tombstone and we're influenced by Europe. He likes jars. Hey! Jarhead Marine Corps Bean came out and said he didn't direct it, and that's because he was friends with Jar and he, he accused, uh, Russell of lying about that, so.

[00:31:57] Wow. Okay. That was, uh, Mike, he sounds like they [00:32:00] got beef, so this is really cool. As bad as the movie is and some of the closeup scenes where Kevin Costner's holding the revolve revolver, if it was an extreme closeup, that was why it Herps actual revolver. Oh wow. They took it outta the museum and so for closeups, they didn't use it for active action or anything, but they did let him hold it.

[00:32:16] For those scenes peacemaker. Imagine if he just dropped it for peacekeeper, which was it? Yeah. I don't know. You would know more than me, but there was a lot. There's a lot written. Well, he had his, it was like a custom handgun that he had. Mm-Hmm. . That was a revolver. Yeah. It said peacekeeper or peacemaker or something on the side.

[00:32:29] Well, there was a lot written because during the Civil War that gun became such a popular general's weapon. Mm-Hmm. . So it was a really big deal that all sudden. Oh, it was probably the cult Single action Army. I think that is what it was. Col. Yeah, that was, yeah. I almost said Smith and Wesson, but I don't know anything about guns.

[00:32:42] I love it that we have, you said we 46 episodes, we're now getting into like. themes that we see little trends. You remember our Crimson Tide versus the hunt for red October episode, Gene Hackman, again, 10 minutes of screen time, third billing for his 10 minutes in wider third billing. He was on the poster.

[00:32:58] The man got paid. I called it. [00:33:00] It was, it was a cult single action army. Yeah. Phil was not. Yeah, no, it's amazing. And do you remember who, who was it? He got in a confrontation with about his name being on the poster. Was it Crimson Tide? Was that Denzel? Oh no. I can't remember, but he was frustrated about his name.

[00:33:15] Oh no, that was the firm. This is the third time we've covered Gene Hackman. It was the firm where he was mad that Tom Cruise got top bill because Tom Cruise was still coming up. And so there was this whole big thing about him not having his name on the poster. Hmm. So this is a recurring thing with Hackman.

[00:33:28] He's getting paid like a third bill and he was only on there for 10 minutes. He's really a Hackman. Get that iPad! Uh, lastly, Dennis Quaid, uh, for your preferred doc holiday, lost 30 pounds, um, for his tuberculosis. Nice. So, Val Kilmer didn't. He's the tuberculosis with the tuberculomimosis. Yeah. Damn it, f**.

[00:33:46] It's hard to say. Tuberculosis or not to tuberculosis, that is the question. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I was gonna say Dennis Quaid looked really skinny in that movie. I didn't. He honestly didn't look like himself. I wasn't in my mind that that was Dennis Quaid. It took me a minute. I went into cold, I didn't look at who [00:34:00] played who and I had been watching Dennis Quaid in the movie thinking, when is Dennis Quaid going to be in the movie?

[00:34:05] Yeah, it took me like a while. And finally just one angle of his face, I'm like, that is Dennis Quaid! Yeah, because he was younger and thinner than we know him. Shall we stone? So shall we become tombstoners here? Yeah, shall we give each other the herpes? I think I did say that. Should we give each other kidney stones?

[00:34:22] I'm getting tombstoned tonight! I tell you what. Why not? Why not? Why not? Get out there! We're gonna go to the tombstone! We're gonna be influenced by Europe, but we're gonna have weak infrastructure, we're gonna allow the cowboy gang to come in via Mexico and the judicious oversight of the state of Texas and they're gonna flood our state and they're gonna, they're gonna do stuff to our people man!

[00:34:42] Great! Get that iPad! Oh s**t. That was so long and good. That's been my thing lately, is with the iPad rant. Oh my f**ing iPad and this other motherf**ing s**t! That top bill! How about this? We'll call this the top curly bill cast. Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer versus Kevin Costner and Dennis [00:35:00] Quaid. Ooh.

[00:35:00] Phil. Oh, this isn't even close. I would say in Wyatt Earp, Kevin Costner was at the pinnacle of his acting prowess. He was just out there Costner ing his best. He was composed. He was boring as f**. No one wanted to watch that s**t. No, I'm just kidding. Dude, the, uh, Kurt Russell and, uh, Val Kilmer. It's a landslide in that situation, like even though there, I don't know what it was about the Dennis Quaid performance of Doc Holliday that I thought was Val Kilmer's performance was super over the top.

[00:35:27] I felt like, but it worked for the film because the film was really fun. I had no issues with his performance in that film. I thought Dennis Quaid felt more like what Doc Holliday was probably like, and he was easily the best actor in, in Wyatt Earp the film, but um, as a combo, uh, Kurt Russell and Val Kilmer were just.

[00:35:44] The Tombstone crew was a lot better than the Wyatt Earp crew, and it wasn't even close. Like, Kevin Costner's performance, like we've talked about a million times, to me, it felt like he rolled out of bed, they slapped a cowboy hat on him, and stuck cue cards in front of him, and he's hungover the whole time.

[00:35:55] Well, that was a valiant assessment. Drew. I'm sorry, I [00:36:00] can't help it. They're all coming to me right now in droves. We'll start with Tombstone. Kurt Russell. I just believed him as kind of the centerpiece of that family. He totally sold that he was like, kind of the golden boy brother, um, and we already waxed eloquently about Val Kilmer as he waxes poetically on everything in the movie.

[00:36:17] That depiction of Doc Holliday is absolutely legendary. I mean he was just this like, gentry, southern, slow talking, I mean he was juggling a lot from being this like, rugged cowboy to being this guy from Georgia but with a little class But also being like classless, but also like having tuberculosis and dealing with all the sweat and having to, he just was able to manage a lot and, and just deliver absolutely legendary lines perfectly.

[00:36:45] Couldn't say less about him. Uh, he was phenomenal. Dennis Quaid's depiction of Doc Holliday, actually, I was pleasantly surprised about. I thought, wow, this is a different thing, but also very good. Unfortunately, it will always live in the shadow of Val Kilmer, but I think that does not [00:37:00] take away from Dennis Quaid's delivery of this character.

[00:37:01] I thought he did a great job. Uh, Kevin Costner, I'm confounded. At, at what happened there? I just Because you're a Costner fan, I love Kevin Costner. I mean, currently I love Costner in Yellowstone, but going back to field of Dreams and dances with Wolves and Robin Hood, and I mean, in the nineties, he was fantastic.

[00:37:16] So I don't know. This was one of the few films I hadn't seen of his, and I just. don't understand what happened. I was trying to get to the bottom of this while I was watching Wyatt Earp because I was really confused by Costner's performance because prior to Wyatt Earp, I held Costner in pretty high regard and still do.

[00:37:32] I mean, everybody gets a mulligan here and there. Sure. The thing that I was trying to compare it to was Thinking about his performance in Field of Dreams, which is one of my favorite films and probably my favorite Costner film. And honestly, Kevin Costner's personality and portrayal of the guy in Field of Dreams wasn't all that different from Wyatt Earp.

[00:37:48] The difference is in Field of Dreams, that worked. Like he was the right casting, this kind of low key, chill dude who was just kind of like hearing from the voice and building his baseball field. And people were confronting him and he always was real even keel and chill. [00:38:00] Because actors That's his thing.

[00:38:01] Often times portray some version of themselves. Kevin Costner just didn't work for that role. Like, he shouldn't have been Wyatt Earp. It didn't work. What's crazy, I guess the counterpoint to that is, and I know it's been 30 years and he's evolved, but his character on Yellowstone would have been perfect in this movie.

[00:38:18] In fact, I wondered if there was a correlation. The disgruntled, his voice, he's absolutely just grizzled and hardened, and this like, kind of crusty, salty guy. That would have totally worked. But he's like, to your point, he was super even keel. I don't want to say Soft, but just like super laid back for what Wyatt Earp should have been.

[00:38:36] Yeah. And Costner in all of his movies has usually been pretty laid back. And that, and that works if you want that. But for Wyatt Earp, there was, should have been more gusto, you know. Um, but that's, I completely forgot that he's in Tombstone, or sorry, Yellowstone, f**ing stone movies, man. , other stone tombstone, Yellowstone stone, field of stones, blue stone, field of stones, rolling stones, f**ing field of these f**ing things.

[00:38:57] Um, yeah, so it's there, but it's also, yeah, like you said, this. [00:39:00] That's 30 years later, and, you know, there's a lot of growing and maturing and Yeah, he's lived some life. Yeah, so, that's an interesting point that I had not thought of. You've said a lot of great things. I I definitely go tombstone here. And here's the thing, I want to give Dennis Quaid a ton of credit because, like I said earlier, the funny thing about Quaid was he was The best actor in that movie and he is, he did a fantastic job.

[00:39:21] In fact, I would say it's one of the best roles I've seen Qua in, unfortunately, for him. And I actually feel this way about the score too. Even though the score was repetitive, I thought the score was actually really good. It's just too bad that the score would always build up and reveal. Reveal something very mediocre.

[00:39:34] And sometimes qua would be straight up acting and everyone else is just monotone and it makes him look like he's almost overacting in some cases. But I step back and think it's not because of that, it's 'cause no one else. Everyone else looks like they're reading off cue cards. Um, so I do want to give Quaid credit.

[00:39:48] I don't necessarily blame him for, for what Wyatt Earp is. Costner is a guy who definitely has a thing. I've never seen him really transform a character in any movies I've watched him in. He kind of, in, he [00:40:00] takes on roles typically where he's very much the same at the beginning as he is the end. But that being said, in later years, like you said, he has shown range, not just Yellowstone.

[00:40:08] And this movie really flew under the radar. It wasn't great, but it's a fun movie. Mr. Brooks, with Dane Cook and Kevin Costner. Did you see that? no. He plays this, like, extreme, philanthropist, beloved doctor by the community. He's retiring. He's also an insane killer, like blood thirsty serial killer, and he actually showed some dynamic in that.

[00:40:26] Now that was later in his career, but he has shown the ability to, to have some dynamics to his acting, but everything he did, I mean, don't you guys think from the jump from when he burns the cabin down and becomes a hobo on purpose and goes through this process that transforms into this hardened lawman, that something would change, like, but nothing he does.

[00:40:45] Yeah, no confidence. No, that's why I said they rolled him out of bed, put a hat on him and stuck cue cards in front of him is what it felt like. And going back to Tombstone and Quaid is closer. He is a much closer to the real Doc Holliday. Based on what I read, still didn't nail the whole thing. Doc [00:41:00] Holliday was a was an unhinged killer, which, you know, yeah, nobody liked him but Wyatt Earp in real life.

[00:41:05] Interesting. And the reason he remained untouched was because of his relationship with Wyatt Earp. The real Doc Holliday was, he was, the reason he was no longer a practicing dentist, not only was he a horrible gambler, but he was a drunk. And he was a drunk dentist, and he was performing dental work drunk.

[00:41:19] And so, in real life, he was actually pretty deplorable. That being said, like you said earlier, I don't give a s**t how much fiction's in Tombstone. Val Kilmer as a guy, he, the Huckleberry line has been around since he said it in that movie. People will randomly say it that you don't expect. It is a line that's, it's It's embedded in our culture and Val Kilmer did a great job and Kurt Russell is so snappy so dominant My favorite scene not just in this movie But I decided one of my favorite scenes of all time is when he is like deriding Billy Bob Thornton skin that's really good Every line is he just slaps the s**t out of him his beady glazed eyes that mustache He's just staring a hole through him.

[00:41:55] He's like you're gonna just Kurt Russell, best performance I've [00:42:00] ever seen from him, and I love him. Absolute landslide, maybe a competition if Kevin Costner helped Dennis Quaid out, but this is Tombstone. All the way. All day and all the way. And I've got supporting cast, I know that by Supporting cast for Tombstone.

[00:42:13] Sam, you guys ready? How much time you got? Sam Elliott, Bill Paxton, Powers Booth, Michael Biehn, Charlton Heston. Jason Priestley, John Tenney, Stephen Lang, Thomas Hayden Church, Dana Delaney, Paula Malcolmson, Lisa Collins, Dana Wheeler, Nicholson, Joanna Pakula, and Michael Rooker. Also known as every, every white person that was available that day.

[00:42:33] I mean, between these two movies, if you just got the, the library on, of all of the actors in these two movies, you'd have a fair amount of movies to watch for the rest of your life. Cover about 50 percent of the Screen Actors Guild that day. Yeah. Wyatt Earp, Gene Hackman, David Andrews. Linden Ashby, Jeff Fahy, Joanna Going, Mark Harmon, Michael Madsen, Catherine O'Hara, who was unfortunately not dealing with Kevin McAllister, but Kevin Costner.

[00:42:58] [00:43:00] Kevin McCostner. Isabella Rossellini, Tom Sizemore, Joe Beth Williams. Say Mayor Winningham. Tom Sizemore died this year, right? Didn't he? Uh, yeah, he did. He was only 61, I think. Yeah, battle What do you think? You can go first here, Kyle. Battle drug addiction, I think. Here's the thing about Tombstone. They, they stake their claim in the character.

[00:43:16] Yeah. Even in the old westerns, like going back to the Dollar's Trilogy, like, even supporting cast and the villains, like, they It was often overdone, but they stake their claim. It's, they're minimalist movies. You know, there's not a ton of dialogue, they're snappy, it's kind of jovial, but it's very serious, some of the older westerns, but they're memorable, like, you just can't help but remember the villain from A Fistful of Dollars.

[00:43:35] But here, like, they're just like, there's so much boilerplate here, and like, looking at all these great actors, but they didn't do any, like, they, Catherine O'Hara was pretty good, but I'm just like, she didn't ascend, you know, she didn't like ascend, whereas Tombstone, like, No, she fell on death's ears. Yeah, and what's funny is we've seen her in Schitt's Creek, and she's very dynamic in that, don't you think?

[00:43:53] Oh, yeah. She's hilarious in that, like, it's also a little unfair, even though we do You have a good supporting cast in Wyatt Earp, Tombstone. If you're [00:44:00] gonna put Sam Elliott, Bill Paxton, and Michael Biehn in there, that's pretty heavy lopsided. Especially on this podcast where we love Michael Biehn and Bill Paxton.

[00:44:07] What is this? How many Bill Paxton, Michael Biehn's is this for us? And now they're in the same movie again. How many movies have we done where they're in the same movie? Quite a few. Terminator? Terminator and Aliens. Yeah. And now they're What is with those two? Can we just talk about Michael Biehn and how he should have done more with his life?

[00:44:22] Yeah, why did he kind of disappear? I mean, name another Michael Biehn movie, other than the three that we just listened. That's a good point, he's great. He's fantastic. I know! What happened? He was the lead in the biggest sci fi movie in the frickin early 90s? Well, two of them, Aliens and Terminator.

[00:44:36] Terminator was the biggest of the 80s. the lead in that, but yeah, he was the lead in probably the second movie. Yeah, it doesn't matter, but he should have done more. Yeah, I agree. And Ringo is great. I think Ringo is actually maybe my favorite non Core Erp holiday character. I love it how he says Lunger.

[00:44:51] All right, Lunger. You know, he's dark. He's very dark. He's mysterious. He's got this kind of brooding. Yeah, it was kind of weird to see him as a villain, like a [00:45:00] bad guy. Seems like he's kind of usually someone you pull for, if not the hero, at least kind of the anti hero type. So yeah, this is Easy Tombstone.

[00:45:07] I hate to say it, a lot of great actors on the supporting cast, but, on Wyatt Earp, but none of them did a damn thing. Yeah, I guess, big picture, the reason that it goes to Tombstone is, Tombstone is a quintessential ensemble movie. It's set, that was what it intended to do, and it nailed it. Specifically, I mean, we've, we've mentioned a lot of specific characters already, but I have to just quick shout out to Powers Booth.

[00:45:27] I think his role as the villain just was so phenomenal when he's just sitting there like he's so cold hearted. He's like jovial about evil, but it's like funny. Like when you're watching it, like you hate him and you like despise who he is, but also you got a smirk on your face because he's so freaky entertaining.

[00:45:44] Yeah. When he's when that guy died and he likes right where he was sitting there and they rode past him, he goes, well. Bye. Which is like a really iconic gif, by the way, that I use anytime like anybody says they're not coming or they're leaving or a sports team that was supposed to win loses, I send that gif.

[00:45:59] And [00:46:00] didn't he look perfectly like a western villain? Like his face, everything about him looked quintessential to that role. He was phenomenal. Yeah, Wyatt Earp, I mean, and then I guess conversely, Wyatt Earp was supposed to be about Kevin Costner, uh, and his character, and not only did he not deliver, the cast also didn't deliver because it wasn't supposed to be about them.

[00:46:18] Who the f** played Curly Bill again in that movie? I don't even care anymore. That was another thing. There was no compelling villain. Curly Bill in the book too, what's interesting about what they did with him in Tombstone is that in the book, maybe one reason he got lost is because he is the most mysterious, out of all these characters in both movies, he is the most mysterious.

[00:46:36] Like he had a lot of different names, he lived in a lot of different places. They haven't really nailed down a pertinent mythology about Curly Bill because he had a lot of identities. He lived in Mexico after he got ousted of Texas. He was, but what they did with him in Tombstone was perfect. And he was, we can't remember who played him in Wyatt Earp.

[00:46:53] So, yeah, there's nothing I can say that hasn't already been said. But, uh, as far as the supporting casts, uh, never has [00:47:00] so little been done with. so much in Wyatt Earp. Therefore, Tombstone. Also, dude, Sam Elliott, you want to talk about like quintessential Western looking guy. Dude, Sam Elliott, like he was strong in Wyatt Earp for, or sorry, in Tombstone.

[00:47:12] He could have tipped the scales for that movie on his own from the sheer fact that very little was done with the most plentiful supporting cast resources ever in Wyatt Earp. And so therefore I go Tombstone. I love Elliott. He was, he had to have been born a 55 year old cowboy. I know he, yeah, he just looks wasn't he?

[00:47:29] Yeah. He, he honestly. of all of the people in that film feels the most organic with his like Western delivery. Like he feels like he just belongs there because there's still an awareness in Tombstone that these are actors acting and it's kind of it's fun and there's some over the top deliveries and some tongue in cheek stuff.

[00:47:44] But Sam Elliott just felt extremely authentic to that time period in that whole situation. Yeah. And he was in, uh, I'm just now getting in the Yellowstone, Drew's recommendation. He was in one of the side movies, right? 1923. 1425. 1780. Didn't he [00:48:00] play Nero? No, he played, he was in 1883. Okay. Low key, uh, Sam Elliott recommendation, non Western, thank you for smoking with Aaron Eckert and Katie Holmes.

[00:48:08] He plays the Marlboro Man. Love that movie. It's hilarious. It's also very satirical. This is gonna be a great category. Let's talk about facial hair for a minute. Oh. Best stashes. Now, you can include some of the beards, cause there were very, like, what's the interesting, uh, the, uh, there's a character in Red Dead, Javier has it too, the mustache.

[00:48:24] Mustache, but it's shaved in the middle. Yeah, it's the, it's the opposite of a Hitler mustache. It's shaved in the middle, and you got two wings above the, uh, crevices of your lip. What is that called? I don't know. But yeah, it's, it's, yeah. These gets got the little, the side part there and the middle's clean.

[00:48:38] It's super weird. Yeah. I don't know about that mustache, but we mustache have two movies filled with Stss who wants to go. That mustache is kind of the equivalent of wearing a button up shirt and only buttoning the top button and just kinda letting it, yeah. It's opposite of how you, you did it wrong. You did it backwards.

[00:48:50] Yeah, what the f**? I mean, dude, Kurt Russell alone wins Tombstone with his, like, glorious face piece there that he had growing from his own [00:49:00] body that they styled to perfection. And it's real. That was an epic ass mustache. Look at that thing. That is unbelievable. Like, are you kidding me? Not even close. I was just about to say.

[00:49:09] Yeah, Tombstone keeps skinning that sidearm or whatever the f**. Skinning that smoke wagon. Skinning that smoke wagon over and over again. Shoving guns up people's asses with its superiority. I totally agree. I think it goes to Tombstone because Kurt Russell, I mean, it's a work of art what he's got going on his face.

[00:49:25] It truly is. Truly. And also low key, like to your point, uh, Sam Elliott, I think he didn't just grow it for this movie. He's just been growing that for his whole life. Like that's just his look. He is the man of the stash. It works for that man. There's something about the vibe of the wardrobe on these gentlemen in Tombstone that is just a little different than Wyatt Earp.

[00:49:44] I don't know if they're just, if the blacks are blacker or if the coats are longer or just something about those guys. What outfits just pop on screen. Yeah. I mean's mean the lighting or the coloring or something. Costume design and lighting. Yeah. It's fantastic. It doesn't, it just, it didn't click for me on white ear.

[00:49:59] Mm-Hmm. . [00:50:00] Well, this is one area where they really leaned into and, and it's partially true. I couldn't read anything that said that the Earp brothers embraced that fashion. But in the movie Tombstone, they actually, during this time, because they were trying to be. more progressive compared to the rest of the outlaw country at the time, post civil war.

[00:50:16] They wanted to embrace European style, fashion, politics, so they were trying to do all that type of stuff in Tombstone. Ah, that makes sense. It feels European. Yeah. At the time, in real life, they were, they were actually importing clothing from France to Tombstone via, you know, ship and all that. So that, that is one thing that's true, but I do think in Wyatt Earp, they probably did dress more like What the herps would have dressed like.

[00:50:38] I go tombstone too, and, and I hate to to to say it this way, but I actually think they did a really good job with the STS and the wardrobe and, and I think they look more prolific in tombstone, but I also think it's because the lips that are under those are delivering great dialogue in lines, whereas the lips underneath the mustaches and wired herp are dead on arrival.

[00:50:58] you know, such a milk. [00:51:00] Toast, uh, movie that even, even giving them credit for the great wardrobe, I think the wardrobes were very accurate and probably more representative of what it would've looked like in Tombstone at the time or wherever they were in, in the White Hart movie. But it's at the same time, the mustache, like you said, like Kurt Russell's, like I'm staring at it when he's belittling Billy Bob Thornton.

[00:51:18] I'm just staring at that stash like, boy, that stash is dishing it out right now, baby. It's just, they become characters of themselves. It's also interesting now that just listening to you talk sparked this thought because of the hats and the stashes. There's not a lot left to look at other than the eyes, and they picked two guys, Kilmer and Russell, that just have absolutely extraordinary eyes.

[00:51:38] Those two men, I mean, like, I'm a happily married straight man, but those two guys have amazing eyes! Like, I just, there's not, you're just locked in on those two guys eyes because, you know, you can't look at the hair, you can't really look at their mouth much because it's covered up. I noticed that too, and it's, again, going back to that scene with Billy Bob Thornton when, and you can see it throughout the movie, when Kurt Russell gets angry.

[00:51:58] He gets that little beady eyed [00:52:00] squint, but his eyes are a little glazed over, and they're just like little black slits. Mm hmm. And he just actually looks like he's gonna freaking go off the handle. That's transformation. That's character transformation. That is showing us the change from point A to point B in a character.

[00:52:14] Right. And this is going about as well for, uh, for herpes as I thought here, uh, three, I mean, you know, that's, that's where kind of our format might struggle a bit when we match up two movies that are telling the same story, but one is just not very good and the other is way better and really, and I tried to come up with categories that gave her a chance.

[00:52:31] I didn't, I didn't pick landslide getting what it deserves a beat down. He say, why it God, why? Mushroom stamp on his fricking inferior. Not much of a gunfight. We got here. Yeah, no, it's more of a cockfight. Tombstone is taking wider. Yep. But maybe this flex category will help. You know, flex categories can demolish the card.

[00:52:50] How many do we have? Uh, we do seven. And we are at number four here. Biggest flex, and this is really more just cause I had to talk about this at some point. I thought this was comedic for all the wrong [00:53:00] reasons. Earp burning his own cabin down after his wife died in pursuing a life of hoboery. Hobo, hoboery.

[00:53:06] Hoboery. Hoboery. Homelessness. He went to the haberdashery I love that you worked hobo Why I understand it would be if my wife died. I would be I had the same thought I'm, like so you're gonna burn your house down not even sell it become a hobo and start sleeping and you're like a well to do Man in the society like you're in like and you're just gonna start sleeping in people's barns It felt like a cheap way to communicate that he was depressed So biggest flex him burning down his own cabin when his wife died and purposely becoming a hobo or mr Fabian played by Billy Zane delivering Henry V speech while getting shot at on stage with a statue and doing it with a straight face.

[00:53:44] Ooh. I'm trying to even the playing field here. That was also a fairly equally dumb scene. Yes. I picked the two dumbest scenes in the movies. Well, that's a good category. Honestly. I once again go Tombstone here and I'm not trying to homer for Tombstone. But when that scene happened and, uh, the [00:54:00] guy like let off a shot at Billy Zane's character and it hit the little post to his right, and he just doesn't even flinch and keeps going.

[00:54:07] I was like, that dude is a f**ing badass. He just won that whole room with that move. Yes. He like went out there. He knew what he was going to be facing because like the guy right before him went out there and got shot at and he ran off the stage and was like, Oh my God, they're shooting at us. Billy Zane walks out there having just seen this happen, takes a shot, and just keeps going.

[00:54:24] I was like, that was a pro ass move. It was the only time in the movie where all those characters were united. And everybody was like, enraptured by his performance. And it was a funny, like, side view on how celebrities are born. Because, like, people just are really, I think throughout history, have always been really fascinated by someone who can get up on stage and own a room.

[00:54:43] And that's really what it's about. And he did that, and he became a celebrity in that town. So it was kind of a cool, sideways case study on, like, how How some random dude that just got off a wagon becomes a celebrity in Tombstone. And it was because of that decision to, you know, the show must go on. And f**ing badass.

[00:54:58] It makes me think of a side question real [00:55:00] quick, side, side vamp, because we've never covered Billy Zayn on this, which eventually we gotta get to Titanic somehow. Alright, Drew, what do you think? Biggest flex. We're trying to even it here. Even it out. I think burning your house down is a bigger flex. I mean, dude didn't just burn it down, he lit a friggin liquor bottle on fire and heaved it through the window.

[00:55:18] He made a makeshift Molotov cocktail. There's gotta be easier, less dramatic ways to start a fire than like, making a Molotov cocktail and throwing it through your front window. Yeah. At that point too, what's funny is, we hadn't been far enough in the movie yet to know how bad it was gonna get. Like, I still had a little hope.

[00:55:33] And I actually thought, oh wow. This guy's reckless, like, he's out of control, we're in for a treat here. Like, that scene actually, it was stupid, but at the time it didn't seem so stupid, it's like, oh, he's gonna go off the rails and this is what's gonna turn him into a hardened lawman. The fact that he was in love with three different women in this film is crazy, right?

[00:55:51] Because his first wife died, and then he has a second wife, and then he has an affair on his second wife. It's like, how long is this movie that you can be in love with three [00:56:00] different women? All these men in the books I read. That's a big flex. Oh, yeah. All these men had, uh, had lots of sex with three women in one film.

[00:56:08] Yeah, and didn't procreate. Well, he did have a one of his wives did have a miscarriage in real life, but they didn't cover that here. I go this. I actually give this to Wyatt Earp. Reason being, it's just it's it's madness. We had to give it something. I tried to find categories that would give Wyatt Earp something.

[00:56:21] I couldn't help but laugh because I was thinking, well, what if I got fired and I burned the building down or what if my wife left me and I burned her car down? Like, I'm just like, where where else? And I had a thought when that happened. If that was because of the perception around how contagious that disease was.

[00:56:37] And I wonder if that was like something he just had to do because I like he did that, like as if it was a dutiful thing, like he didn't do it like, man, f** this s**t and just throw the liquor bottle. I didn't even think of that. I think he burned his house down because her mom was trying to get in and he said we can't we have to quarantine It wouldn't be like it wouldn't be fair to the town to let people in.

[00:56:59] Yeah, [00:57:00] I think they hadn't admitted bleach yet Yeah, I think they perceived was it typhoid fever as like it was in the wood in the house So the house, like imagine that s**t. You're somebody in your house gets sick and dies. And you're like, no, I got to burn my whole f**ing house. We would have burned every house that I know.

[00:57:14] Yeah, sure. Some people were a step away at that point. Um, but I'm pretty sure it was because of the typhoid thing. I feel really dumb now. That makes total sense. He didn't play it in a way where it seemed to make any sense. That was also just harkening back to a massive failure on the part of the storytelling and Wyatt Earp that this was another thing I don't think we've covered yet.

[00:57:33] As I was watching that film, I. felt like the director expected you to have a vested interest in the story of Wyatt Earp and have some background knowledge yourself going into that because they just glazed over everything like they moved at light speed through that entire story and didn't spend enough time on anything to give enough context to make it interesting like when the Curly Bill scenes are happening I didn't even realize who that was until he was out in the middle of the street shooting and only because I'd seen Tombstone, not because like they made it [00:58:00] clear as to who that guy was or what his f**ing deal was or what he was on about.

[00:58:03] Like I don't blame somebody for being a little confused as to why he threw the burned his own house down because I only came to that conclusion because I was like thinking through like why the f** would he do this? Oh, maybe typhoid was seen as really contagious and you got to burn your property.

[00:58:16] That seems extreme, but like that was a big plot point that they just that they just f**ing flew past. And then my first thought was, why wouldn't he just sell it if he doesn't want to live there anymore or whatever. But I guess it was the wild west. They didn't have like real estate agents and appraisers and like, they weren't like making sure the house was Hey Jim, Betty died of typhoid fever.

[00:58:33] I'm thinking about moving the property. What are the values? What are the interest rates? I don't know. It's Missouri. It's, it's 1869 or whatever it was. Yeah, but honestly that makes too much sense. to me is a, is a failure on the part of the storytelling and why that's, that's expecting me to know a lot about typhoid fever and how it's perceived.

[00:58:51] And that's what that movie expected from the audience. It expected you to know more than anyone watching a movie like that would ever know. So wider. I've got one. Yeah, we [00:59:00] got it. And the, uh, you know, flex. Most categories are good at leveling the playing field. I pull them in sometimes when I need to do, you know, do some damage here.

[00:59:06] These are LODs work. Now, I don't, I don't do this category to belittle or shame the 8, 700 deaths a year that occur from tuberculosis now that it's, you know, it's much lower key. It was much more prevalent at this time. The great Arthur Morgan from Red Dead Redemption 2 has tuberculosis. It's very common in Westerns.

[00:59:22] Best depiction of tuberculosis. It's a very interesting category because Val Kilmer and Dennis Quaid both played their tuberculosis off. Very differently for both having the same disease. One was like, green, and shaking and sweating all the time. The other was very emphatic, smoking, running around, and he would occasionally cough really hard.

[00:59:42] I don't really know enough about tuberculosis, and I don't know, like, what we're qualifying as best, necessarily. That was the one. Other than how much I disliked the Josephine or Jocelyn or whatever the f** her name was character in Tombstone. That was my only other big gripe [01:00:00] with Tombstone was how Val Kilmer would suddenly just be like paper white out of nowhere and sweating his ass off.

[01:00:06] Like when five seconds earlier he'd been fine. So that was like a little intense for me. So I'll give this to Wyatt Earp just because I did like a lot of the more of the subtlety in some of the Doc Holliday stuff. stuff that they had going in that film, including the tuberculosis thing. Like, obviously, that was a big deal.

[01:00:22] That was why he went west. It was because he had tuberculosis in the drier air or whatever. Looking for a better climate. Helped him function better. I could be wrong, but it just felt extreme that he just, like, would turn ashen white and sweat all over the place. Suddenly, it just was a little weird to me.

[01:00:35] And still wear a coat in the Arizona desert when hunting Johnny Ringo down, wearing his pea coat with his sweaty tuberculosis sweat. Mm hmm. I don't know what tuberculosis does, so I assume that this is just a really vicious disease. It makes you a great sharpshooter. Everybody was, like, calling him names the whole time.

[01:00:50] I'm like, man, this must be a horrible, hideous disease that, like, takes over your body. And so I bought it. I believed it. I think that Tombstone wins, hands down, just because I mean, [01:01:00] his role could not possibly be overshadowed. The way that he delivered everything, in spite of being, also pulling off the fact that he was very sick and making that believable felt impressive to me.

[01:01:10] So, apparently, people infected with tuberculosis don't have symptoms. When symptoms do occur, they usually include Glut cough, uh, weight loss, night sweats and a fever. Nothing about turning green and shooting people nothing. Okay. Drawing your weapons Very well. Apparently Johnny ring. Apparently one of those things today that you just take an antibiotic for are nearly good to get side effects of tuberculosis medication.

[01:01:28] Include shooting Johnny Ringo with your trench coat on in the desert. Yeah. But this is a man that was living very hard while having these things. Mm-Hmm. I mean, dude smoking, he was drinking. f**in he was, I mean, he was livin hard. He's f**in Big Nose Sally or whatever. Big Nose Nancy. And she liked that.

[01:01:43] That was real, by the way. Big Nose Nancy was, that was her name. Was it Nancy? That was her real name. Big Nose I don't think it was Nancy or something else. Whatever it was, Big Nose, like, she was totally fine with that name. Dude, yeah, I know. Everyone else calls me that. She thought it was a term of endearment.

[01:01:55] I love that we, that everyone had a nickname. Yeah. Curly Bill. Curly Bill. Big Nose. [01:02:00] That should've been my opening question for us. What would our Western nicknames been? Killer Kyle. The Bald Falcon. Yeah. The Bald Falcon. Falcon Phil, you know. Shorty something. Yeah, they would have called you like, tall.

[01:02:11] Something big like, uh. Ain't you a tall? Drew the Giant, and you show up and it's like you're 5'7 Aren't you a tall drink of water? Yeah. Drew the Giant. God, what would my name be? I don't know. I'd be crazy something. Crazy, crazy stuff. It's Confrontational Kyle. Confrontational Kyle. I also Curly Bill. That's the weirdest name.

[01:02:28] Lil Kyle. You know, maybe it's, uh, me trying to give Wyatt Earp credit here. I go Tombstone, but I thought that this was the one, and this isn't an issue with Quaid, it's an issue with the writing, that he was maybe too active for his tuberculosis. And I do think Val Kilmer maybe was a little exaggerated too, but that dude was drinking and gambling for days on end.

[01:02:48] Like, didn't they say in one scene in Tombstone he'd been awake for 36 hours? Yeah, and the doctor was like, you gotta stop drinking and And I am under the belief, I, I do think he's one of the most underrated [01:03:00] actors of our time. Because I do think he ended up doing a lot of, like, B movies, cause he, you know, was hard to work with.

[01:03:04] And then he got throat cancer, and I think if he would have been a little easier to work with, he probably would have gone on to do more heat caliber films, more tombstone caliber films. He kind of fell out of contention in that way, but I do think it plays into the character so much. He doesn't do a lot.

[01:03:21] Besides when he's shooting people, he's not physically active. Well, we tried. We tried, Wyatt Earp, but, uh, not even tuberculosis could save you now.

[01:03:33] Why is that so funny? It's five to one. It's five to one and I had to save this for uh, oh wait, no the irony of that statement Yeah, that's exactly right I had to say I had to save this one for last and i'm not trying to be tongue in cheek Which Wyatt Earp was the better Earp the character themselves which Earp really?

[01:03:52] I know, we can change it, but I, this, in any other type of matchup like this, this would be a great category. If we had two, if we [01:04:00] had two jokers, for example, we would be like Jack Nicholson versus Heath Ledger, this would be a great question. We have to make a case for the one we don't believe in. That's how we're going to do this.

[01:04:08] Yeah, okay, let's focus on the So we're going to try to defend Costner, all three of us? Yeah, let's defend Costner here. Defend your boy. I don't have anything. He, um, he got paid to do this movie. It came out. It was released. It was in theaters. It flopped. Did it? Really? Yeah. Did it do poorly? And, and what I read in my research was because it did come out after Tombstone and it was just like, people were not, people weren't having it.

[01:04:27] They weren't going to go see a three hour, ten minute movie with Kevin Costner or after the thrill, the absolute thrill ride that Tombstone was. I'm not going to make a case for Koster, but I think you could make the argument that he had less to work with in terms of the script. Less direction.

[01:04:42] Apparently very poor direction. No soundtrack behind him to help the moments feel better. And really no memorable lines. But he didn't do himself any favors is the problem. It just, it seemed like everybody must have been like tired or sleepy on set or something. That's what it felt like, yes! And nobody, it just felt like none of [01:05:00] them truly believed in this.

[01:05:01] Project yeah, what it felt like which is weird because I know that probably isn't the case But that was definitely what was coming across screen I just wonder if these executives that are sitting in the boardrooms like screening these movies is like did they like see this and like Yeah, yeah, I'm feeling this.

[01:05:15] Whoa Energy's huge here guys Cut it, print it, send it to theaters. Let's do this. Like it was just like, and it's like no one in the room had seen team tombstone when it came out. Like no one like references, like, well, we've got a really energetic peppy, sparky movie over here with tombstone, but maybe the sensibility in the nineties might've been different.

[01:05:33] Maybe they thought they were playing to their audience and the existence of tombstone didn't bother them because they were like, ah, tombstone's just wild. And now we're going to do this straight and down the middle. And it just didn't like, that's a really good point. And, and that made me have the thought, Why it felt like it came out earlier?

[01:05:48] Doesn't it feel like a late 80s? It felt like a little more old school, Made for TV movie. Western film. It felt like an 80s made for TV movie. And Tombstone feels more modern. It feels like that could have came out like 10 years ago or something. Like [01:06:00] it just. It doesn't feel quite as old for whatever.

[01:06:02] Yeah, and they came out six months apart and Kazan I'm sitting here just looking at Kazan. I'm like just i'm like staring at his picture like tell me something How how did every right every Kazan listen and like you said directing and writing are two different things but to Be the writer of these films, of The Force Awakens, of Return of the Jedi, Empire Strikes Back, of Indiana Jones, uh, which Indiana Jones?

[01:06:25] He's been exposed to greatness. I mean, it's like the Sabin thing, dude. Everyone likes hiring Sabin's assistants and they stick them as head coaches of their programs and it rarely works out well. Damn. It's like that, the whole transitive property, like, well, you did great here in this role, therefore you can take on this completely different f**ing role.

[01:06:41] That's such a good point. You're really good at being a beta, try being an alpha. Yeah, it's like, not the same, you know. And this conversation is all the mental math we're trying to do to figure out why this category goes to Tombstone. Let's justify the existence of this bad move. Let's bring in Nick Saban.

[01:06:56] Well, I mean, yeah, and we can, we can say the score, I mean, [01:07:00] 6 1 in Tombstone. I mean, Wyatt Earp benefited from one of my flexes. Categories, you know? Yeah. The scorecard again, have we ever had a sweep on this? We did. We have, I'm trying to remember which one it was. We did have a blood, we have had a blood bath before, so, uh, yep.

[01:07:13] It is, I'm true. Six to one. . It's six to one. And, uh, I enjoyed, uh, unsheathing our six shooters together here in the room, . And, uh, I do, I do this, we did what now? . We, we, we skinned our smoke wagons. Yeah, we did. Which by the way, that was a saying I had to research because it sounded sexual that they called the that gun the cult that you Researched they referred to it as a smoke wagon.

[01:07:39] That was the skin was the leather holster See as a non gun guy, it just sounds like unsheathing the uncircumcised And presented to me in battle and you're like this f**. But anyway, I have been your Huckleberry. I am Kyle. I am still Drew. I will forever and always be Drew. Y'all go burn your house down when your wife dies.[01:08:00] 

[01:08:01] See ya.

[01:08:22] ​