Interview with Point Break Screenwriter Peter Iliff

[00:00:00] Kyle: Peter, what's going on, buddy? How are you? 

[00:00:15] Peter Iliff: It's all good, baby. Thanks for inviting me to chit chat about one of my favorite periods of my life, doing Point 

[00:00:21] Kyle: Break. Of course, one of mine. Um, I, I was joking when we recorded the, the Point Break vs. Fast and Furious episode. My dad, it's funny, he [00:00:30] was a narcotics officer, but I don't know.

[00:00:32] We had a VHS player and he had like recorded VHSs and obviously that wasn't illegal, but I had a tape that had point break RoboCop. And I basically, it was like an action VHS. And every week, even as a young lad, I would just put that in just top to bottom of the RoboCop point break. It was like a weekly regimen for me as a kid.

[00:00:50] I know it's so cool, man. And you know, what's even cooler is your story. And before we get into a lot of questions, I want people to hear the story about what you were doing [00:01:00] right before you wrote point break. I love that your transition from one thing to another, you want to tell the little story about it?

[00:01:06] Well, 

[00:01:06] Peter Iliff: you know, I, uh, I was raised in somewhere else in Marin County and it came down. To LA not knowing anybody to be a screenwriter. And I got a job at, um, Anna Landsburg Productions, which is was a sh a top 10 show called, that's incredible. You know, like water skiing, squirrels and crazy ass stunts. And it was, uh, you know, I was a gopher, I was a runner.

[00:01:28] And so I would [00:01:30] like have to like, you know, go over to Paramount where the film shipping was with all of that's incredible film cans. And, and, uh, while I was on the lot, I would like pass out my early scripts. Yeah. Because not only that, I'd find their copy machines because it used to cost 10 bucks to make a copy at print land and who had that kind of money.

[00:01:49] So, um, I'd be like, they didn't have like codes or anything. You could just go there. And I, so I'd have a box of scripts. I'd be handing them out because if you were going to steal my story, fine, I'll [00:02:00] just sue you. So I never had any paranoia about giving my stuff away. And um, and then, you know, I got fired, which got me unemployment.

[00:02:10] I was able to write. A couple more scripts. And then I was waiting tables and um, and uh, I got hired. I met a great guy, Rick King, who directed some smaller films, some cool films. Rick's a great dude. We became best friends over some good weed and some tequila. He had this [00:02:30] idea about high school surfers who rob banks.

[00:02:35] It paid me. 6, 000, uh, Robert Levy and, um, and Peter Abrams are tapestry films. And three drafts later, it's, it was called Johnny Utah at the time. Uh, and Johnny Utah sold to fricking Ridley Scott. Are you kidding me? I mean, he had just done someone to watch over me, which meant. [00:03:00] Alien and Blade Runner were really fresh.

[00:03:03] Mm-Hmm. So like, this was the man, you know, he'd done legend. The cruise thing with the unicorn, kind of, kind of wonky someone to watch over me was a little, was was cool. Tom Beringer and he was our dude. And, um, a year passed of working with Ridley. And then one day the studio Columbia changed hands and Ridley went off and did a film called Black Rain with, um, a little known actor named Michael [00:03:30] Douglas.

[00:03:31] Uh, before he left, it was going to be, uh, Charlie Sheen, fresh off of, you know, Wall Street and platoon. Who was the. The name guy at the time. Right. And it would have been, um, James Garner who is hot off the rocker files and everyone loved James Garner. It was kind of a cool role to be willing to foe as us as, um, Bodhi, who is off of to live and die in LA.

[00:03:55] Which was, it's a great freaking film. Yes. And, uh, [00:04:00] who knows who the girl was going to be? Cause that was kind of the fourth casting element. It's amazing how, because the transition of the studio and really taking a great film, black rain, I mean, I love that film, so I'm kind of glad it happened. Four years passed.

[00:04:14] And Bigelow and Jim Cameron come in and Bigelow is married to Jim Cameron. And I just got to say, you know, hats off to Jim Cameron, who did a turbocharged polish rewrite on the script. [00:04:30] And, um, so I get sole credit because writers guild rules with, um, original screenwriters are very strict. They really protect original writers, but Jimbo, the man, Came in and, um, you know, God bless Jim.

[00:04:43] So, um, give him full credit for a lot of the scenes, like the very original lawnmower scene. So we're going to push Utah's face. And that's all Cameron. 

[00:04:53] Kyle: One of the most memorable scenes in that film. I mean, every time I pop it in, I think about it. Although I cracked a joke on the episode. I was, what did I [00:05:00] say to the guy?

[00:05:00] I was like, I love how that lawnmower, even though it's an old school lawnmower is loud enough to distort the SWAT team's ability to communicate with Utah. He's like, Oh, this damn lawnmower. 

[00:05:09] Peter Iliff: What a lawnmower, right? That's why action can be really, uh, as I'm just, I'm on a deadline for the project right now, or it's the kind of action ending there's actually, it's really hard to write because there's logic stuff and you come up with that idea.

[00:05:23] Like, oh, the lawnmower is messing up the ability to talk. So therefore this chaos [00:05:30] ensues and that allows that to happen. Then if you had a director note, ah, well, they make it a silent lawnmower. Well, but then we lost. Nothing else makes sense anymore because, you know, so yeah, I think action is the hardest because if you're vibing a character, once you come up with it, it really flows easily.

[00:05:48] Because, um, you're kind of in that, Yeah. I was going to write that dialogue kind of comes very fluidly, you know, 

[00:05:57] Kyle: that's actually a perfect segue into my first big question. And you and I [00:06:00] talked about this when we first spoke. It's like, it's one thing to watch action and watch point break and, and it's, you're not overwhelmed by the, the perfectly executed skydiving and beach football and surfing, like on the screen.

[00:06:10] It's like, well, it's great. But I asked you, I was like, yeah. You know, in asking you now, what is it like to write action in a way to wear it on the page? It makes sense that someone wants to pick up that screenplay and pay 

[00:06:20] Peter Iliff: for it. Well, the key it's always been, and executives will always students actually always, you know, drive this into you if you don't care.

[00:06:29] About [00:06:30] the characters, you're not going to follow them and it's that's why it's a tough amount of stories when they open on an action scene. I'm doing now one called free free agents with Deon Taylor with Will Packer Universal and um, there's a big argument going on about the opening heist. They, the bat, they are heroes for the bandits should have masks on.

[00:06:50] And I'm going, but this opening 10 minutes is a, is, is an opportunity to express character. I need to mask off. I [00:07:00] need to know who these guys are and I want them to do cool little things. Like when the rifling through your car, he finds a pair of condom, some condoms and goes, Oh, I think I'll keep these for later.

[00:07:09] You know, like just little stuff you can do to give someone a little bit of a character edge. And, um, so you, that only works when you kind of are following and having emotional investments. It's always about emotional investment and you'll notice in point break, there are no action scenes that are really any [00:07:30] significance until that lawnmower fight, uh, which is I think about 30 minutes in and the last 40 minutes is all nonstop.

[00:07:38] One scene after another action, action, action. And by that point, it all makes sense. It's flowing. The stakes are high. You really care, you know, like Keanu has this kind of bond with Bodhi and, you know, he can't shoot him. So he's got to shoot the sky. It's all working. So, um, I might [00:08:00] be rambling as I always do, but that's what makes great action and you've got to establish those characters first so you can get it down.

[00:08:09] Kyle: In that emotional payoff, it's funny. It's in the skydiving scene because the whole premise, right, is that these two people are the same person on different sides of a badge, you know, but they actually interlock in midair and it's kind of psychologically at moments like, wow, they are the same person.

[00:08:23] That 

[00:08:23] Peter Iliff: was kind of the fun. That was the fun of the story. You know, I, I grew up, um, with sisters and I lost [00:08:30] my father at age eight. And, um, so I always, uh, had to bro out with my friend. My male friends were very important. They still are. You know, I, I always, um, really pull up energy into my male friendships.

[00:08:45] And, um, So it was really easy for me to kind of like, think of this, like they're from different walks of life, but they've got that thing. And I'm 17 years sober. So I know all about alcoholism, doing drugs and drinking too much. And, uh, [00:09:00] and it's about filling that dopamine, that dopamine hit. And so I think adrenaline junkie is just another form of addiction, you know, and you, if you got this disease, you're going to show it in one way or another.

[00:09:13] And they got, they got the adrenaline junkie gene, those dopamine hits and they understand 

[00:09:19] Kyle: each other. One of my favorite lines in the movie is, uh, Lori Petty, Tyler Bodie's room and that makeshift party house. You've got the kamikaze look. I've seen it. 

[00:09:28] Peter Iliff: Yeah. [00:09:30] Yeah. It's a nice, it's a nice simple way of saying it.

[00:09:32] The stuff I was just saying about, you know, addiction, you don't need to get into that. It's kind of there. Um, you know, we are trying to do a, uh, a sequel to the, uh, TV series called Joni Utah, which is his daughter in the present day. And she is definitely fighting, you know, the pain pills from the injuries on the, you know, Olympic skate, you know, snowboarding team, you know, the torqued out knee.

[00:09:57] Turns to oxy turns it, you [00:10:00] know, drinking and she's got it, you know, so her adrenaline junkie is really closely aligned with alcoholism to go there for the, for more of a fun movie on a TV series. You got 10 hours per season. You can like get into the stuff, you know, on a film, you want to make it fun.

[00:10:17] Point breaks fun. It's just kind of 

[00:10:19] Kyle: endless fun, but it makes so much sense though. Cause you just talked to me about your sobriety journey and your experience and congrats on all that, by the way, that's amazing. It was 

[00:10:27] Peter Iliff: a safer place. Now that I'm sober, I just want you [00:10:30] to know, what was that? The world is a safer place.

[00:10:36] Kyle: As long as you're still making amazing 

[00:10:38] Peter Iliff: is under control. You're right. I'm married to the same girl, 32 years. And, uh, I'm always forgiven. Congrats, my 

[00:10:45] Kyle: friend. Thank you. But I love that now you have, you know, it's funny, you're, you're, you're probably the same person in a lot of ways, but you're a different person.

[00:10:53] And not only can TV permit that a different style of writing, but you can now pull from that experience for this character. Who's a daughter of [00:11:00] a character that means so much to your career and who you are as a person. I mean, isn't that a lovely, 

[00:11:05] Peter Iliff: it's a lovely script, uh, Joni Utah script, everybody digs it.

[00:11:08] So Alcon has the rights. Okay. To the point break franchise. They had a disaster on their hands with their failed remake. Um, and so they're, it's just a little tough, you know, they've got snake bit and we're trying to get Keanu Reeves to EP it. And he's been a little busy making, uh, matrix and John Wick movies.[00:11:30] 

[00:11:30] Yeah. He's just wrapped John Wick. So we're starting to get his attention again. Well, when 

[00:11:35] Kyle: that comes out, I'm throwing a huge party. 

[00:11:36] Peter Iliff: He would not start it. He would just want his name, you know, so it feels 

[00:11:41] Kyle: legit. I know as a fan, knowing he, if he was in the EVP role, I mean, not that I wouldn't, if you're involved, that would be sold anyway, but having him, his name would mean a lot as just a light.

[00:11:50] Peter Iliff: It would be such a, by all accounts, a lovely human being. And everybody feels that way about him. 

[00:11:56] Kyle: I know everybody he's beloved. So next question. So, you know, [00:12:00] what was interesting? I was studying all the, um, All the special features for our podcast. And it was interesting with Catherine Bigelow, um, because there was two sentiments I got some of the, some of the, um, producers.

[00:12:11] And I think Lori Petty said this, that you would think as a female director in action, that she would, you know, maybe lean out of the action a little bit, but she was opposite. She was like, can we get through these romance scenes so we can get back to action, which is amazing. But then there was this other caveat where some of the producers said, even though that she, she did lean into action.

[00:12:28] Her feminine approach and appeal is what [00:12:30] added some of the emotional layers. You talked about that emotional payoff. It was Catherine who kind of added some of those layers that made us get attached to, to Tyler, to get attached. I think that's a really 

[00:12:39] Peter Iliff: good way to put it, you know, her perhaps her feminine eye.

[00:12:43] Um, you know, brought more attention to the relationships, which paid off in the action. And, you know, uh, what a sight, I mean, Catherine's a tall, um, um, great chisel. She was a model in her younger years. So she's a beautiful woman. [00:13:00] And to see her on set, she was always a presence. And, uh, and shrewdly, shrewdly, brilliant, knew what she wanted and would fight for the things she wanted.

[00:13:09] I mean, she, they did not want Keanu Reeves. She had to fight for, they did not want Lori Petty. They wanted the quintessential beach blonde, whoever that would be. So, Bigelow had a vision and she really fought for it. And, um, and then when they got Swayze, it just come off a ghost, which was, um, I mean a huge success.

[00:13:29] It was [00:13:30] like having Paul McCartney, you know, on set and they literally had to rope off at the Santa Monica pier down here. Um, you know, cause there were literally screaming, you know, scantily clad women, you know, howling for Swayze. And it was funny cause Keanu would be in the parking lot. Having to learn to throw a football because, you know, it's a skill and he never played football and he, you know, he's lived in Wades and, um, I remember he was, um, I guess he was, you know, taking some juice to get his muscle [00:14:00] bulk up and he was breaking out.

[00:14:01] So they had makeup on his pimples on his chest and he's in the park beach parking lot by the pier throwing a football with the coach. Yeah. And, uh, and it was just like a cool image, you know, like, all right, bro, you know, here you are kind of a skinny guy who's got to get ripped really quick. He looks good.

[00:14:20] He looks good. We were talking about that. We were like, he had to really transform his disease, which wasn't being done a lot back then. There wasn't the, uh, [00:14:30] crazy transformations like Christian Bale, machinist and all that. It wasn't happening. Yeah, 

[00:14:35] Kyle: you're right. That's such a thing. Now, Tom Hardy is a big body transformation guy.

[00:14:39] What do you think about this, this idea? I'd love to hear because you, you're such a vital part to the, what I would consider to be an evolution in action. Um, we talk all the time about how action, you know, in the Westerns and James Bond was kind of an element of action. It wasn't the centerpiece. We get, you know, some Dirty Harry, I think Dirty Harry and Clint Eastwood move that a little farther.

[00:14:58] But then you get to the eighties, right? And [00:15:00] it's, it's Arnold and Sly. It's chiseled, it's body counts. It's one man army. They get hurt a little bit, but you know, they're, they're kind of invincible. But then I think Bruce Willis introduces us to the every man in diehard. He's, he gets hurt a lot. He is bleeding.

[00:15:14] Um, but you know, he's more relatable, still pretty good looking and Jack, but relatable, but Keanu. Oh, I know it's so vital, but you know, then we get to you with point break and yes, Keanu is that every man, but then you add this element of extreme action the whole [00:15:30] time. And, and cause we compared this movie to fast and furious, which has been accused of jacking the screenplay and whether that's true or not, 

[00:15:36] Peter Iliff: the director of the first one, uh, is a friend that he called me.

[00:15:42] Apologize and thank me and do the gracious thing. That's amazing. 

[00:15:48] Kyle: Yeah. Um, but what do you think about that? Do you think that's an accurate someone who's, who's written one of the most quintessential action pieces? Is that true about this evolution? And do you think point break is, I think what they did set the tone for action we see today with the [00:16:00] kind of the, the extreme all the time.

[00:16:02] Peter Iliff: Well, you know, it, it started to veer away from, you know, the, uh, you know, the Arnold Schwarzenegger and the kind of bad bonds where you'd crack a joke and, and it wasn't reality based, you were kind of defying the laws of physics a lot, you know, it was kind of gags, you know, um, you know, with a, like almost like a punchline, a violent punchline and the stuff here, it was meant to be reality based that it could happen, except it didn't.

[00:16:27] Of course, the, [00:16:30] I shouldn't say it, the ridiculous jumping out of a plane without a parachute, which was Jim Cameron. I'll tell the story. He told me I was flying in a plane over Spain and I had this idea that if you didn't have a parachute and you grabbed onto a boatie, But he had the gun. You need a third hand to pull the rip cord.

[00:16:50] And it's a great idea. I mean, it's a great action idea because it's just got all these nuances like, you know, boaties willing to die. If you don't want to die too, like how [00:17:00] far you want to take this road to glory thing, bro, you better pull it. You know, that's all great. There is no way part of my French that a guy on a second dive can control his pair.

[00:17:12] I'm told it takes like 75 jumps to have that kind of body control. So I remember in the audience, there was like, Oh God, but, but you know what? You remember it. I love it. And I'll tell you another thing. It was cool. I know I'm veering below, but the shot on the [00:17:30] airplane proceeding it on Swayze delivers his line.

[00:17:34] And then without cutting, literally falls back and rolls out of the plane and the camera comes forward and sees him falling. That's one shot. You really did it. What actor, what actor, even has James Bond even ever done that? No. I mean, Swayze was the man and he, uh, really, you know, I mean, you saw the incredible shape that guy [00:18:00] was, that was, that was really him.

[00:18:01] He was a dancer. He's always takes care of his physique. He was in a prime of his life. He was actually living and hanging out with the other surfers, you know, like Jesse Christopher and John Philbin, the guys who played Gromit and Roach and, um, and, uh, he was hanging with a certain, with the stunt guys.

[00:18:18] And they called him buddy and they'd all drink together and they were just, it was so cool. Swayze was just so loved and there was endless stories of what a dude and how he embraced this [00:18:30] and it became like a bro out like, you know, I'm, you know, I'm really going to be in a surfboard and I'm really going to jump out of a plane.

[00:18:38] And Keanu did not jump out of a plane. They had a, um, you know, a, but they had these tall like, uh, parachutes. I didn't see it, but I heard about it. It's like basically a big fan that blows up into a tube and you're, you're on a, um, you're either floating because of the wind or you're on a giant claw and [00:19:00] someone actually, the power went off.

[00:19:02] And a relative of Jim Cameron's hand on the camera broke his back because the power went off and all of a sudden boom and one of Cameron's Brothers or somebody had broke his back. He's handling the camera. So it's 

[00:19:15] Kyle: dangerous stuff. It is You know, it's funny. Keanu didn't jump out of the plane But do you think because one of Keanu's big call even one of his big things that people know him for is doing stunts now do you think Swayze's investment kind of rubbed off on him because I know [00:19:30] glenn wilder 

[00:19:30] Peter Iliff: great question because You I mean, to be at the age Keanu is reaching now to do John Wick and Matrix type moves, I mean, I can only imagine you're training four hours a day just to keep your body from, you know, you know, you haven't heard the reports that he, you know, he tore his shoulder or, you know, he seems to have kept his body healthy enough to do this stuff.

[00:19:53] So my head, he must've learned something because it's amazing what he's doing. Yeah. 

[00:19:58] Kyle: And the matrix, he actually, did you know this? He did [00:20:00] actually have two neck infusions though. He came in. That's why they do. That's why he looks skinnier in all the fight scenes because he actually, yeah, he actually did have a neck infusion and he re aggravated it.

[00:20:09] So they again had to put off the fight scene. So all the dialogue was 

[00:20:13] Peter Iliff: crazy. 

[00:20:13] Kyle: Yeah. I also think it's interesting in the late gray. And I actually didn't know Glenn Wilder had passed away until I was doing research for this. But he talked about, um, you know, Swayze kind of helped him lead this weekend thing.

[00:20:26] It's like, if you guys want to do these stunts, then you got to get here on the [00:20:30] weekends in between filming. So we can do it. Um, so we can practice. 

[00:20:33] Peter Iliff: That sounds like what Swayze and Bo Jesse and John Philbin. John Philbin is a huge big wave surfer. He's been a lot of surfing movies and he teaches surfing to the stars.

[00:20:45] He's just a crazy man. A lovely man. Sober. No, good. Jesse is a producer on this, uh, Joe and Utah project. And, you know, I'm still surfing looking [00:21:00] great. 

[00:21:00] Kyle: How far, how far down the pipe is that by the way, while we're talking about it, is that, 

[00:21:04] Peter Iliff: I can't give too many more details other than, you know, skip your fingers crossed.

[00:21:11] Kyle: I will be excited when that comes 

[00:21:14] Peter Iliff: out. And the more that our point break, uh, fandom, you know, would like to see something like this, it really helps. So tweets and, you know, kind of, uh, fans out there, if you want more, we want to give it to you. 

[00:21:27] Kyle: I know we want it. Um, and that's a [00:21:30] great segue to, why do you think, it was great to hear why the movie's important to you, right?

[00:21:33] Because of the arc of your career, but why do fans, do you think this movie has so much staying power this many years 

[00:21:39] Peter Iliff: later? And that's something, you know, back in those days, there were, it was like a four star rating system. It wasn't five, it was four stars and, uh, Point Break got two on most, like if you were to look at it in TV Guide, which was something years ago, or how they used to list things with two stars, [00:22:00] it didn't, you know, came out the same weekend as, um, some big hits came out the same weekend as T2, which was Cameron.

[00:22:08] Uh, uh, boys in the hood, which is a seminal film and 101 Dalmatians, like, you know, shit, you know? So it was in fourth place. It, uh, it didn't kick ass domestically, you know, because it was, you know, it just got burned by those bigger films. [00:22:30] And um, and I had done another film like the next year called Patriot games, which got Three stars.

[00:22:35] Cause I mean, we all love Patriot games, but it was like a little more serious, I suppose, in Paris. So the years went by, people would start, Oh, you wrote point break. I thought you were just being nice to me, you know? And then I think people really liked this movie. Like it's then it had this life. And then this stricken play, there was only two competing troops from point break live performing.

[00:22:59] And [00:23:00] I think it was like a dozen cities. I mean, I don't know if you ever saw the point break live play, but it was great fun. It was, uh, you know, they always do in a bar with people drinking and they had super soakers and blood packs. They had to wear like a little, they'd give you like a 2 rain slicker thing.

[00:23:19] Incredible. I mean, it was just so much fun. So, and I hear stories like the one you've had, that, that young, young rowdy guys like you love cinephiles were just like, Oh, D [00:23:30] on this movie. And, and why that is, I would get letters back when we got letters. So now that'll become emails from people in Timbuktu, right?

[00:23:39] You know, like, you know, New Zealand, I saw this film and the message changed my life. I'm like, are you, is this guy for real? Like, huh? You know, and more would come in and, you know, Oh my goodness. You know, so what a beautiful, humbling thing that you do something and someone loves that much. It inspires them [00:24:00] maybe to get into, uh, sports, surfing, you know, get into a spiritual existence, which can make you a happier, more peaceful soul.

[00:24:08] I mean, how nice, huh? 

[00:24:10] Kyle: Yeah. Well, Bodhi is, um, we were talking about how important the end was because Bodhi, I think Bodhi had to die that way and Utah had to let him go that way because. Yeah. Really? It's funny as a kid. And I think I told you this when we first talked, it's like films, like Point Break and Robocop as a kid, you watch them for the action.

[00:24:26] But as you get older, you see the layers of whether it's [00:24:30] metaphor, uh, whatever that means. That's the samurai ending, 

[00:24:32] Peter Iliff: you know, and we had that first. And it's such a. Pleasure as a writer of something to actually have your end kind of first, because then you can work up to it. How often is writers that we have, we're scrambling to get the pages into directors and actors, and we kind of got to write the end of the fly.

[00:24:53] This one we knew, and it did come from the samurai, great samurai endings, you know, when the warriors, if I were to defeat [00:25:00] you on an honorable battlefield, I'd probably have to raise your son, you know, that kind of a thing. And that's very beautiful and honorable. And it was all, we, we really tread on those coattails to craft this ending.

[00:25:13] What was fascinating was, um, because of that idea, you know, there, there originally wasn't, the ending was reshot months later. The original ending was, uh, more of a conversation. You know, hey, you gotta go down, people trust you, and they died. And, you [00:25:30] know, uh, and, um, Swayze basically asked, well, hey, brah, let me, let me go that way, you know?

[00:25:36] And Larry Gordon, the studio sees this and goes, no, yeah, I'm fight. And at first I was thinking like, Oh, damn. I mean, it kind of, where's the honor? Like you're supposed to accept your death honorably. It worked out great. And the happy accidents is that because it was shot months later, their hairstyles change.

[00:25:55] Um, Swayze had gone up to do Roland Joffrey's City of Joy [00:26:00] as a doctor, his short hair. And I believe Keanu was doing Bill and Ted's too. And uh, so he had to grow it long. And so it was this great, happy accident that implied the passage of time that Keanu had spent looking for Bodhi. And uh, I love the ending.

[00:26:19] Oh yeah. The idea of, you know, Throwing the badge in the surf. I mean, it, it's just a great ripoff of some of my favorites, like especially Clin with Dirty Airy, the original one. Oh, [00:26:30] he walks away from that Larksburg Tower where I, I grew up a minute from that spot where they shot at. Yeah. And uh, it's now a giant shopping center.

[00:26:39] Sorry, but there's that badge. Yeah. And the cool stuff like that, you know, and bullet, the last shot in bullet. It's Steve McQueen movie is on his, the badge is on the rail of his apartment. And it's kind of like questioning the questioning of what, is this right? What I'm doing? I can't do it anymore. I just love those [00:27:00] things.

[00:27:00] Kyle: You know, I, and I think we got a really, was this a happy accident by the way? I mean, Keanu is not an action guy yet, right? Larry Gordon's like, you want to put bill and Ted guy in my It's a 80 million action movie. Thank you. Um, but we get an iconic picture. Like there's a moment, you know how sometimes like Nolan is amazing at this too.

[00:27:17] Like if you paused it and exported it, it would make an amazing portrait. And the one to me is at the ending when Utah is walking down the beach and his hair is wet. Cause he's got long hair. Now, like you said, that was a huge part of it. He's soaking wet in the rain. He's been a slow [00:27:30] motion. No one, no one rides for freeze playing.

[00:27:32] And to me, that was a portrait picture. That sounds like chills. 

[00:27:37] Peter Iliff: I, I, I, that, that, that rat song, nobody arrives for free. It's still such a cool song. It's like, uh, the guy in Cobra Kai, you know, that he's stuck in the eighties. That's, that's like his favorite song, you know? Oh yeah. And, uh, so I, I, I literally do get chills when I see that it works so well.

[00:27:54] Yeah. Coming back. 

[00:27:55] Kyle: I know. And they're so pissed too. Um, so [00:28:00] going off script a little bit, let's talk about just writing in general a little bit. How, how has writing changed? You know, it's crazy that, you know, this was, you know, you were waiting tables and then you're for your, you know, then you're selling a thing to Ridley Scott, you know, what has changed about writing screenplays from then to today?

[00:28:14] Is there anything noticeable? You know, notice will be different about what you have to do or what you do as a screenplay writer. 

[00:28:20] Peter Iliff: That's a very interesting question. I, cause I remember, um, well, one is just that for point break, I had to literally go to the UCLA library, to the card [00:28:30] catalog and research bank robberies.

[00:28:33] You know, you had to like, you know, find the magazine that had an article or the newspaper, and it was just arduous work. And to think that we're going to sit at home, And Google anything, and it's right there. Very funny thing. Last year, I was writing two projects, one set in the Amazon and one set in Lisbon, Portugal, two projects.

[00:28:51] Normally the studio would send me on these glorious trips. Used to be first class, now it's business class, but it's been a blast. Oh, Amazon [00:29:00] river, Lisbon, Portugal. I'm in now. I got to look at tour, you know, tour videos that some, you know, Yoko is, is produced of him eating a side berries and, and, uh, the Amazon and that cause it was COVID, you know, I just couldn't go.

[00:29:16] So you really can, you don't even have to travel. Like I didn't have to travel the place. You can just Google everything. That's interesting. Um, I find it's interesting, like just today I'm in [00:29:30] the middle of a, I got to rewrite a new script of mine called The Tour, which is being done with Christopher Markberg and director Dionne Taylor and hopefully shoots this April.

[00:29:39] I'm getting on my phone. Uh, his, his, his voice memos, like, like instead of typing, I'm just getting, you know, the director's having these kind of random Gatling gun thoughts and he just voicemails them to me. And, um, you know, and it gets a little bit helter skelter cause it's very easy for him just to do this [00:30:00] and he might not have to think about as much, should I actually give the writer this note?

[00:30:04] And I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with like, The kind of contradictory sometimes. So that's interesting to me, like you, that would never happen years ago. Um, uh, I remember. Like for the old scripts, you couldn't PDF send the script over the internet. You had to, um, a messenger from the studio came and the printers those days were dot matrix printers that took about, they were like two minutes or two [00:30:30] pages a minute.

[00:30:31] So to print 120 page script took an hour and you're a friend of you, right? Oh yeah. It's Friday. Yeah. Send those, send the driver, send the messenger, you know, and he comes and he's, he's, he's It's still not, it's still printing. It's like, Hey, you want a beer? You want, you know, these guys? No dude, you need to script it, you got to get back.

[00:30:50] There's traffic and it's just funny, funny stories about that. 

[00:30:53] Kyle: Um, just slam it on the table. You know, the pages, it would shake the table. [00:31:00] I 

[00:31:00] Peter Iliff: find, uh, when I'm writing, I, I need some kind of dialogue. You know, I can go, uh, you know, YouTube certain people speaking in certain flavors. I can do a brainy quotes.

[00:31:13] If I need some smart thing, someone says I can look at a zillion quotes and pick out the one and modify it. There's a lot of cheating that goes on. You don't have to be quite as smart anymore. But the one thing about, in all seriousness, the one thing about screenwriting that has radically changed [00:31:30] is the outline process.

[00:31:31] Um, it is now part of our deals. Back in the day, you were just hired to do, you know, uh, uh, first draft and rewrites. And there are times when I've failed, I would send in screenplay three months later. And the executives, I haven't really talked to, and they, they would hate it. They were like, they didn't remember what we talked about or I'd gone off course or whatever reason.

[00:31:53] And it would just be the end now. And it's really important for new writers is we [00:32:00] outline every scene of the movie. And, um, I think that's half the work. And by doing that, you're engaging with your director, your producers studio, and everybody's signing off and everybody's adding input. Then everybody's now got their ego into it and they want to support it.

[00:32:16] You know, they remember the idea they had. Of course, it's my name going on. And so I'll take all your good ideas. And so now when you write your first draft, you can write that first draft in two weeks because you've spent a month, you know, on this outline. And [00:32:30] now the first draft is like a second draft because you're, you are making improvements.

[00:32:33] You're getting ideas. Now, when you turn it in, people are happy. There's never any more like, what the hell is this? You know, it's, um, so, you know, uh, these, all you guys in the coffee shops, just kind of like spewing out screenplays. I hope you're doing it the right way or you're wasting your time because the hard work is in the skeleton, the outline, and you can make it as long as you want, 10 pages, 40 pages.

[00:32:57] But the longer you make it, the [00:33:00] easier it is to write the screenplay and the screenplays like dessert. It's like, uh, it's your artistic talent, dialogue, this and that. And so that has really changed for me. And frankly, I don't turn in bad screenplays anymore. I haven't for many years. I haven't just disappointed many customers because of this process.

[00:33:20] And it's now part of the deal making process treatment that, you know, you know, commence, deliver and commence, deliver first [00:33:30] draft and then deliver rewrite. So there's three step 

[00:33:32] Kyle: deals. I love what you said about the, the evolution of that, because I feel like another thing, you know, you, you can, Confirm whether this is a hunt, a good hunter or not.

[00:33:40] But one thing we've uncovered is all the great movies. Like I get made fun of a lot because I actually actively update and keep it a list of top 50 movies in my life, you know, and some, they move around like chess, but so many of them are great because they faced adversity in the early process. Like you said, it's, it's a little easier now because it's harder to write a bad script or write a bad screenplay, [00:34:00] but you think about even point break, right?

[00:34:02] They didn't want. To cast who they wanted and movies didn't have budgets, just infinite budgets, you know, and like Rocky and Rambo, there was just so many things going to get, nobody wanted to play Rambo, like Sylvester Stallone regretted it. He was like, all these great people pass on it, but I took it. Why, you know, do you feel like it's, it was like that?

[00:34:18] Like so many great movies were great because they didn't have infinite resources, infinite budgets, and they just completely faced adversity. The whole process. 

[00:34:28] Peter Iliff: I've never. [00:34:30] Really seeing the infinite budget

[00:34:36] Because as big as it is in truth, you know, there's a number and um, It's very hard to hit that number. And so uh I mean there's uh, Patriot Games which was in this so called infinite budget era, I didn't even remember what the budget was, but it was a sequel to uh, I'm sorry Patriot Games was a sequel to the Hunt for Red October so it was a big budget thing.

[00:34:57] And um, they had to reshoot a [00:35:00] week because um, you know they, they, the studio didn't like the way the, The, this, this week had been shot the wardrobe, you know, they kind of like, I wanted to reset and this caused a cut. They ended up like, well, we got to get, we got to reduce the number of days in the shoot.

[00:35:15] And so in Patriot games, there's a sequence when Harrison Ford is at the courthouse in the first act and Sean Bean is going to go to prison. Well, guess what? There's a huge action sequence right there where his terrorist cronies, you think they've come to kill Jack Ryan, [00:35:30] but what they do is they kill the judge.

[00:35:33] And it causes a mistrial and it's this great. Like, I mean, it was a 10 page sequence. Guess what? They tell me on a Friday, uh, cut it out. Oh, what? Don't ask any questions. Don't get mad. Just fricking do it. And they see it, see the pages tomorrow. Oh my gosh. And it's so, I don't know. That's all that's a budget thing, right?

[00:35:56] So, um, and today, [00:36:00] um, you know, it's all these, most, most of these films being independence budgets are. Crazy tight. And so you're finding screenplays are really not, I find this interesting. They'll say on one hand, screenplays are no longer 120 pages, but then how come the bond movie is two hour, 40 minutes.

[00:36:18] How come Casa Gucci is two hour and 38 minutes. All these, you know, do all these movies are getting longer, but I'm under tremendous pressure to deliver you a script of 105 pages. If you think of page per minute, and [00:36:30] that's for budget reasons. If I, if you go to one 15, that's 10 more pages. That's possibly another week of shooting.

[00:36:38] Well, a week of shooting, you got to rent the cameras, you got to pay for the cast, you know, so they, you know, we're going, we're only going to give you six weeks. So I want 105 page. I, in fact, I love a 97 page script. Can you do that, Pete? And then here's a problem. If you have, okay, you have an action film.

[00:36:55] If an action 30%, of your screen [00:37:00] time. You just lost 30 percent of your movie to develop characters. So how do you get these characters to be someone memorable and give them scenes that you love them when you've got 30 to 40 less pages than a non action script? So it's just stuff like that where it's like, wow, so how do you write scenes where you're kind of start in the middle of the scene?

[00:37:23] You don't see the beginning. You're just kind of like creating pace. By actually not having complete, you know, [00:37:30] you don't see them walk in the door conversation and walk out the door. It's like, they're in the room, you cut on something clever and you're in the room somewhere else. And it's this pacing up by, um, by shooting and writing that way.

[00:37:46] And that's why feature writers have trouble being TV writers because TV writers You know, you can watch him walk in Scott Frank on the Queens band gambit. How many great shots were there of her [00:38:00] entering the hotel in the new outfit, walking up the grand stairs, following her. She enters the, you know, cause you know, the area where they're gaming, you can't do that.

[00:38:10] If I wrote that, that's a, that's a one, that was a one minute, walking into a hotel, never happened. That's incredible. So there's a lot of screenwriting to about. You know, writing action on the page that is trying to pace the time it takes. And since I've directed a number of films now, [00:38:30] you start to realize you can't just say she walks into the hotel and you have to kind of like write it so It's taking that page length, that, that actual screen time.

[00:38:43] And, uh, so I've developed new techniques of action writing just to try to have it match the time. Like you can't, sometimes you'll have a paragraph where 20 things have happened, but like, it doesn't make any sense. This would take two minutes and you wrote it in a paragraph and that's how you're cheating the time, you know, the [00:39:00] page length of your script.

[00:39:01] So, um. A lot of stuff 

[00:39:03] Kyle: like that. Let's talk about what you're doing now. You said we've already talked about the, what's Johnny Utah's daughter's going to be. Is it Joni? Is that what you said? 

[00:39:10] Peter Iliff: Joni Utah. But, uh, so what I'm doing now is, um, I've got a new film coming out, uh, this, uh, summer called the enforcer.

[00:39:18] Sorry, Antonio Banderas and, uh, Kate Bosworth and two chains. And it's a really great, it's kind of, uh, my interpretation of an old film called the professional with a [00:39:30] genre on a young Natalie Portman. It's a hit man. There's no faith. It doesn't matter what I do to this life because there's no forgiveness.

[00:39:37] There's no God. Doesn't matter what I do or who I do it to. But what if he finds this girl who needs help? He starts to find some faith that messes them up as a hit man. And now he's got to go up against his own crew. To save the girl and do the right thing. It's a beautiful movie, The Enforcer and Tony Banderas.

[00:39:55] So I'm sure he's a fabulous actor. We'll knock that out of the park. I was able to script [00:40:00] doctor the new, um, Russell Crowe, Liam Hemsworth's film, Purple Face is coming out. And then I script doctored, uh, Arclight's newer film called Deep Water, which is, um, great films coming up, starting to shoot very soon about a, uh, ocean liner that.

[00:40:14] Crash is the deep Pacific and half the movie is the ditching and the surviving. And then it turns into a shark movie and it's great. This would be a big hit deep water. And now, um, I've been doing, um, free [00:40:30] agents with director Dion Taylor, which will be universal and will Packer. And it's about NFL players with a veteran contracts, losing money, their injuries.

[00:40:39] And they decide we got to get even let's start stealing from the owners. So it's a heist movie and it's a great, so they wanted the point break writer. So I got lucky for that. But in the meantime, Dion had a film called the tour, which is about a, um, a rapper musician who, uh, it's a lot like misery. So instead of, you know, a [00:41:00] writer in the car accident ending up in any, any Bates house, it's a musician and he's got to write the song to get his ass free.

[00:41:08] Oh, wow. It's a really great script. We just love it and we're thinking it's going to be Queen Latifah. That's going to shoot in April. And, uh, and TV, you know, I'm working with Chuck Roven at Atlas Entertainment and Amanda Breckenridge, she was the star of a great show, Virgin River. Uh, Netflix. [00:41:30] Yeah. My dear director, uh, Gary fleeter.

[00:41:32] And we were pitching a series called the, um, hiding games. So we're in the era of zoom pitches. Usually it's me come in the room and sing a song and dance and, you know, and now I just gotta, now we show a, uh, it's, it's kind of fascinating. We, they spent like 25, 000 on a 10 minute. Video, which is like amatic.

[00:41:53] And then, you know, Alexandra and I come on and, and the director and we kind of do it, our spiel with the [00:42:00] c every beat of the season. And uh, you know, so that's how it works these days. You know, you just don't walk into a room. You gotta spend a lot of money on these fancy pitch videos. Yeah. So interesting how everything's changing because of Zoom.

[00:42:14] Kyle: Yeah, I know. Right. And I, we, we can talk like this today. I mean, it's, it's pretty cool. Every single one of those movies you described, I want to see like literally you just talking about them, especially the enforcer. When's that come out? Cause I, Leon, the professional, it's millennium. 

[00:42:26] Peter Iliff: And, uh, they said they were getting out of a release date, uh, still in [00:42:30] post, but they said the summer, the fall, you know, they, they do films like the expendables and a black Hawk down, I mean, sorry, white house, white house down.

[00:42:38] And, um, Hitman's bodyguard. So this, they kind of try to find the windows between the super big studio films. So, you know, like they, they try to find the weekend and the theaters that the next bat released before Batman comes out. 

[00:42:53] Kyle: Yeah. In between MCU movies. Well, that's amazing. So I do want to finish with this.

[00:42:59] And [00:43:00] this was a little bit of an improv, but something you said earlier, maybe thought of this, you were talking about all the, all the young writers in the coffee houses. You know, I'm thinking there's a young version of you out there waiting tables right now. Hasn't got his break yet. Hasn't caught her break yet.

[00:43:11] Whoever it is. What is one thing you would say to them right now that would change the course of direction for their career? 

[00:43:17] Peter Iliff: You know, I would say what was said to me by some lovely older writers have been through it, that if you're good, you will be discovered, you know, it's hard for an actor because it's a lot about luck and what you look like and [00:43:30] where you get the right audition, you know, the universe has to really kind of sync up.

[00:43:34] You get that break quite often despite your talent, but for a writer, there's a whole industry of people looking for you. If you're good, you got to be good. You can't be, you can't be just good. You got to be great. If you're great. I mean, every agent, all their assistants are in like groups where they ask, what did you read this week?

[00:43:54] Who's the new writer? Everybody's looking for you. They're, they're actively [00:44:00] searching for you and all you have to do is write a great screenplay. And you know, so if you do it like we have to do it. The professionals, you know, really outline it, be in a writing class, have, get feedback. I mean, and you never let anybody read a first draft that counts ever.

[00:44:20] First drafts always suck. It's gotta be a third or fourth draft you finally expose because people won't read it twice. So get in that writing group. [00:44:30] If you, if even if your sister gives you five ideas, And then your brother gives you, and then your, your stupid friend gives you five ideas. And then the milkman gives you, that's 20 ideas.

[00:44:40] You put 20 ideas into a hundred page script. It's a better script. Get those ideas, do your homework, act like a pro, like we have to, because our consequences are big. If we screw up, we get fired and we get shamed. And our agents no longer want to work with us. So I'm just saying it's good. [00:45:00] They're looking for you.

[00:45:01] Hell yeah. And it's a great lifestyle. I ride my bike 3000. I rode my bike over 3000 miles a year. I ski like a maniac. I'm able to go to the gym, hang out with my kids, my wife, my dogs, and I, and I get to write. It's, I'm a very blessed, I'd say I'm too, I'm too blessed to be stressed. 

[00:45:20] Kyle: Dude, thank you so much for all that.

[00:45:21] This is incredible. What an honor to meet you and hear your stories. Uh, I, when I sent the email to your agent, I was like, there's no way the guy that wrote point breaks is going to talk to us. And then you literally [00:45:30] sent me an email and I was so just ecstatic. So thank you for your time and being so you gave us a whole hour, man.

[00:45:35] Thank you. Thank 

[00:45:36] Peter Iliff: you. And, uh, I needed, I needed an hour break. Cause it's been a very harrowing rewrite day. I bet man. This actually was vacation for my brain to talk about myself. Well, 

[00:45:49] Kyle: thank 

[00:45:49] Peter Iliff: you. Thank you. Movie Wars.