Justice League (2017)
Kyle
00:00:00.160 - 00:00:16.760
Foreign. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast.
Seth
00:00:16.840 - 00:00:17.624
Yeehaw.
Drew
00:00:17.752 - 00:00:20.152
Here we are, rocking and rolling.
Kyle
00:00:20.216 - 00:00:24.136
We're hitting dark times here in our Snyder trilogy coverage.
Seth
00:00:24.248 - 00:00:27.312
Finally, we'll all agree that this was not a great movie.
Kyle
00:00:27.496 - 00:00:28.080
Yes.
Drew
00:00:28.160 - 00:00:29.312
I didn't mind it.
Kyle
00:00:29.416 - 00:00:30.180
Yeah.
Seth
00:00:30.520 - 00:00:33.616
And this is why we have him on for the dissenting opinions.
Kyle
00:00:33.808 - 00:00:34.416
Yes.
Seth
00:00:34.528 - 00:00:36.864
He is the dissenter in Snyderville.
Kyle
00:00:36.992 - 00:00:37.344
Yes.
Drew
00:00:37.392 - 00:00:42.784
Yeah, I mean, we'll talk about it more. I think both had areas to improve.
Kyle
00:00:42.952 - 00:00:43.472
Yeah.
Drew
00:00:43.536 - 00:01:13.000
But I mean, here's the thing. These are superhero movies, and I'm obsessed. I'm a nerd.
When they first came out, both times, I was so excited to see them in theaters, to watch them with friends. But now we're years removed and we're watching it. And part of me like the geekdoms faded.
And so I feel like in both movies I'm able to have a more real opinion other than just. I mean, because literally you could put dirt on a movie screen and give it a cape and tell superhero movie and. But yeah, it's pretty good.
Seth
00:01:13.040 - 00:01:13.576
There we go.
Kyle
00:01:13.648 - 00:01:24.514
Yeah. I'll tell you what, as the non superhero fan, it's weird kind of doing this stuff after it all happened.
Like now I'm like having to retroactively apply the drama myself, you know?
Drew
00:01:24.602 - 00:01:25.010
Yeah.
Kyle
00:01:25.090 - 00:01:31.282
And it's. It's hilarious doing that, you know, and this is a crazy jump. We came off. We already. So we had man of Steel.
Seth
00:01:31.346 - 00:01:31.682
Yeah.
Kyle
00:01:31.746 - 00:01:37.922
Which less tumultuous, you know. And then we have Batman versus Superman Gets another cut. Right.
Drew
00:01:38.026 - 00:01:38.354
Yeah.
Kyle
00:01:38.402 - 00:01:40.626
And that was a very divisive film.
Drew
00:01:40.698 - 00:01:52.406
You know, I feel like I was such a jerk in that, in that podcast. And even now I can say, I can still say, like, as positive as I am these two movies, I would take him over Batman versus Superman any day.
Kyle
00:01:52.478 - 00:01:54.102
Yeah. It's kind of funny because I, like.
Seth
00:01:54.126 - 00:01:56.630
I was telling you guys, Justice League over bvs.
Kyle
00:01:56.710 - 00:01:57.302
Yes.
Seth
00:01:57.446 - 00:01:58.342
Something's wrong with you.
Drew
00:01:58.366 - 00:01:58.758
Yeah.
Seth
00:01:58.854 - 00:02:00.486
Something is absolutely wrong with you.
Drew
00:02:00.558 - 00:02:25.516
Yeah. I mean, and don't get me wrong, there are so many other superhero movies. I take over all of them.
But if, If I, if those are my three options, Batman versus Superman is going to be at the bottom. Only because they should have ended it before they brought Doomsday in Superman. Doomsday. That would have been a movie and it would have set the.
Anyway, if you guys want, I actually, after watching these movies, I've solved how to fix the justice universe. And I can tell you the.
Seth
00:02:25.588 - 00:02:27.800
Talk about that while I turn my microphone out.
Kyle
00:02:28.500 - 00:02:28.924
Okay.
Drew
00:02:28.972 - 00:03:02.128
He's like, talk about that while I leave the room and have to hold my. No, no. Well, my biggest problem with this. Well, actually, I should say I enjoyed this movie more than the last time.
The Justice League, the shorter Justice League movie. And I realized I caught myself. The reason I enjoyed it was because I saw so many, you know, this is the future. So we've seen the two Aqua Men movies.
We saw one the two Wonder Woman. It was. Seen the Flash.
And so the biggest problem with Justice League was they're bringing in all these big characters, and because of their editing issues.
Kyle
00:03:02.264 - 00:03:02.608
Right.
Drew
00:03:02.664 - 00:03:30.076
You had no. No development of them. You could care less because. But now that I had seen multiple movies about each characters, I was more invested into them.
So I did enjoy Justice League a little bit, but I had to catch myself because I was kind of cheating, because I was like, well, I saw movies now that weren't around then. So I can understand how people watched that first Justice League and were like, that was just trash. Because. But if.
If I was in charge of the weed inverse. If they said, drew, what should we do to fix this problem?
Kyle
00:03:30.148 - 00:03:30.492
Yeah.
Drew
00:03:30.556 - 00:03:33.852
I would have told them, well, thank you so much for calling. Let me tell you exactly.
Kyle
00:03:33.916 - 00:03:34.396
Thank you.
Drew
00:03:34.468 - 00:04:30.518
Figured it out. They should not have. They.
First of all, they should have done Batman versus Superman and then the maybe Wonder Woman movie after that, and then Superman doomsday ending with the death of Superman. Really digging deep into that comic because that's really, you know, iconic in comic book lore. That would have been a good movie.
And then they should have given us three individual films. The first two could be any order to give us the Aquaman film, they give us the Flash film. And this is all.
All these superheroes are dealing with how to be a superhero without Superman around. That's like the overarching theme is there's no more Superman, and they got to step up, but then they move it.
The movie they should have done before Justice League was Cyborg. And maybe we'll talk about this in next week's episode when we talk about the Snyder cut. Because there's that scene where he's doing the.
Where he's listening to his dad's message and he's talking about all the wisdom of the challenges and how he's gonna have to live with this new ability and stuff like that. And as I was listening to that, I was like, that's a movie.
Seth
00:04:30.614 - 00:04:31.590
Oh, 100%.
Drew
00:04:31.710 - 00:04:44.582
That. And would be a really easy make grid, which was like a malware inside Cyborg, make him the villain. And like, yeah, would have been A great movie.
And they end it sets up Justice League because of the mother boxes and how integral that is to Cyborg.
Kyle
00:04:44.646 - 00:04:44.934
Yeah.
Drew
00:04:44.982 - 00:04:53.206
And then you do that movie, and then by the time you get to Justice League, you've had three other superhero movies. Explaining the guys that were in the movies that got, like, no stage time.
Seth
00:04:53.278 - 00:04:53.718
Yeah.
Drew
00:04:53.814 - 00:05:06.014
And then that would have made this movie make a lot more sense because we would have been emotional. Just like in Avengers, you know, some of the characters didn't have as much time because. But, like, you had already seen their movie ahead of time.
Seth
00:05:06.102 - 00:05:11.822
See, what I would have done is not told Zack Snyder, you have to catch up with Marvel right now, Right?
Kyle
00:05:11.846 - 00:05:12.094
Yeah.
Seth
00:05:12.142 - 00:06:00.396
Like, that was Warner Brothers biggest mistake was coming right off the popularity of the Dark Knight trilogy and being like, we gotta catch up to Marvel. I was like, no, you guys need to do your own thing. Take your time. Like you said last week, make sure every single movie is absolutely good.
But also let the people cook. Let the directors that you've hired to do their job. Do their job. Stop micromanaging. Cause for me, I actually had the opposite experience.
I personally thoroughly enjoyed this version of Justice League when it came out in theaters. But then as time went on, I realized I never went back to try to watch it again. Like, it just never made me want to come back and watch it.
And then once the Snyder cut came out, I've rewatched that five times by now.
Kyle
00:06:00.468 - 00:06:00.860
Yeah.
Seth
00:06:00.940 - 00:06:33.496
And that, to me is, like, has been. The biggest difference is. Sure, it's. It's. I mean, by all standards, Justice League is not a terrible movie, but it's not good.
And we'll get into it as we keep going, especially when we start talking about next week with the Snyder cut. It's.
It's crazy how much you can see just during Justice League, where Joss Whedon was clearly rewriting, reshooting, redoing things and where he was taking the stuff Snyder had already done.
Kyle
00:06:33.568 - 00:06:33.912
Yeah.
Seth
00:06:33.976 - 00:06:36.056
It's just such a drastic difference.
Kyle
00:06:36.248 - 00:07:01.834
Yeah. And I think. I think interesting and kind of where I wanted to start, actually. It's a good, good segue because I actually think.
And because I caught up with all this retroactively in my research. One of the interesting things is it's not just like they were trying to catch up with Marvel and that was the pressure, but a lot of things happened.
They actually had, like, in 2007 is where when they were actually going to do the Justice League, they actually had contracts signed. Armie Hammer was going to be Batman. Like, they Had. Oh, yeah.
Seth
00:07:01.882 - 00:07:06.282
That actually would. At the. At the time, you know, before the cannibalism stuff. That would have been.
Kyle
00:07:06.306 - 00:07:07.946
Yeah, yeah. Everything's.
Drew
00:07:07.978 - 00:07:09.322
Yeah, everything's cannibal.
Kyle
00:07:09.386 - 00:07:10.794
Everything's better before cannibalism.
Seth
00:07:10.842 - 00:07:11.690
It is true.
Kyle
00:07:11.770 - 00:07:21.566
Especially when you get that tapeworm. You know, I have a lot of cannibal material in my. In my stand up. I don't know why I talk about cannibals all the time.
Drew
00:07:21.698 - 00:07:23.570
Right. It's for this moment. Right now.
Kyle
00:07:24.110 - 00:07:30.486
Finally, it's paying off. But a couple of things happened. First of all, they had the. There was a Writer's Guild strike.
Seth
00:07:30.518 - 00:07:30.726
Yeah.
Kyle
00:07:30.758 - 00:07:35.894
And so that pretty much delayed it. And then Batman Begins came out.
Seth
00:07:35.982 - 00:07:37.254
Well, I came out. No, five.
Kyle
00:07:37.342 - 00:07:37.878
Oh, five.
Seth
00:07:37.934 - 00:07:38.214
Yeah.
Kyle
00:07:38.262 - 00:07:48.470
Okay. So. Yeah, sorry. It came out on five. So that came out.
Then there was a Writers Guild strike, and there was all this pressure, and it was like Nolan was like redefining the genre.
Seth
00:07:48.550 - 00:07:50.630
Yeah. Dark Knight. Like, once that.
Kyle
00:07:50.670 - 00:07:51.078
Yeah.
Seth
00:07:51.174 - 00:07:51.990
All bets were off.
Kyle
00:07:52.030 - 00:07:59.710
And then it was like they delayed justice. Like, we had all the contracts signed.
They were gonna come out with it, but now it's like, not only do we have the pressure from the mcu, but then we have Nolan over here.
Drew
00:07:59.830 - 00:08:00.414
Yeah.
Kyle
00:08:00.542 - 00:08:38.476
And you're right. Like, you cannot. You cannot make this stuff from a position of, oh, we gotta catch up and catch the market.
I think what, if anything, the MCU's proven is that even though I'm personally annoyed with, like, the constant MCU movies, I don't think the market for superhero movies really dies anymore. I think there is a group of people that just are gonna go see it, and they're great popcorn movies.
They're typically not all of them, but a lot of them are rated and earn a range where it's actually available to younger folks. So, you know, unless it's a Snyder cut. So, like, there is. It's going to be a cash cow a lot of the time. It may not make as much as, like, in game.
It may not hit the billion dollar mark, but they are going to make money.
Seth
00:08:38.548 - 00:08:38.940
Yeah.
Kyle
00:08:39.020 - 00:08:57.270
So I think it's interesting that these executives felt so much pressure that they would put a pressure on a guy whose daughter just committed suicide, tell him his movie was unwatchable. Like, all this. All this stuff that took place here, it's like really like you needed your. You needed this movie to come out that bad and to produce.
Seth
00:08:57.350 - 00:08:57.702
Yeah.
Kyle
00:08:57.766 - 00:09:05.062
This what I called a made for tv. I'm sorry. I think this Justice League is. It's so vanilla.
Seth
00:09:05.126 - 00:09:06.966
It's worse than CW level Quality.
Kyle
00:09:06.998 - 00:09:07.398
Yeah.
Drew
00:09:07.494 - 00:09:18.486
Well, the common. So, like, cw, when they eventually did all, like, the Arrowverse and the superhero shows, they had.
They had several crossovers and they did have one big, like, crisis on Infinite Earth.
Seth
00:09:18.518 - 00:09:18.966
Yeah.
Drew
00:09:19.078 - 00:09:20.904
That was essentially the Justice League.
Kyle
00:09:20.982 - 00:09:21.188
Yeah.
Drew
00:09:21.204 - 00:09:25.940
And a common thing people say is, like, this was. I mean, it was just, you know, like four TV episodes from, you know.
Seth
00:09:25.980 - 00:09:26.244
Yeah.
Drew
00:09:26.292 - 00:09:30.580
And. But they were like, a lot of people would say that was better than the actual Justice League movie.
Seth
00:09:30.660 - 00:09:31.364
Oh, yeah.
Kyle
00:09:31.492 - 00:09:32.628
The actors are tired.
Seth
00:09:32.724 - 00:09:34.820
Take much to get better than this one because.
Kyle
00:09:34.940 - 00:09:40.840
So, Seth, you have all the knowledge in this. And I texted you when I was watching, it was like, why? Why is everyone not acting?
Seth
00:09:41.260 - 00:09:41.684
Yeah.
Kyle
00:09:41.732 - 00:09:45.876
Why does it feel like Ben Affleck is exhausted? Why does it feel like even Gal.
Drew
00:09:45.908 - 00:09:49.396
Gadot, who I think feels like the old man Batman, that he's.
Kyle
00:09:49.428 - 00:09:52.824
Yeah, because he's actually looking. He actually looks exhausted as an actor.
Seth
00:09:52.932 - 00:10:34.724
Like, sad too. So the brief history behind Justice League. We'll get to the history behind the Snyder cut next episode.
But the history behind Justice League, I think it was 2016, is when autumn Snyder committed suicide. And so Zach and his wife Deborah just said, we've got to step away. We're sorry. Please bring in someone else to finish my movie, is what he said.
And he wasn't initially planning on putting out the four hour version. He was planning on putting out a theatrical length movie to probably two hours of 45 minutes.
Joss Whedon comes in because you can tell Warner Brothers had no fucking clue what they were doing. So they're like, oh, well, Avengers was popular. We'll bring in the guy who did the Avengers.
Kyle
00:10:34.772 - 00:10:35.124
Yeah.
Seth
00:10:35.172 - 00:11:09.540
So they bring him in and instead of finishing the movie, he says, fuck this movie. I'm going to make a different movie. But use the basic storyline that Zack Snyder is come up with. So he completely rewrote the script.
In fact, you see in the credits, he is listed as the top screenwriter. He completely removed, as far as, like, being the biggest screenwriter, he removed Chris Torero as the top screenwriter.
I was like, no, I'm gonna rewrite your entire script. Fuck you. Then he went in and reshot everything after they had literally shot the entirety of Snyder's version other than one scene.
Kyle
00:11:09.620 - 00:11:10.068
Yeah.
Seth
00:11:10.164 - 00:11:49.234
And so, yeah, you can tell every single actor is exhausted because they're all sitting there going, a, we've already shot this. Why are we doing this? And then B, I guarantee you, they were all reading the script going, what the fuck is this horseshit?
And they were like, all right, we're contractually obligated to say these lines. So we're gonna say them, but we're not gonna put any emotion into it whatsoever.
Like, I think the biggest one that I noticed, like you could just tell how exhausted they were, was after Gal Gadot dislocates his Ben Affleck's shoulder.
Kyle
00:11:49.282 - 00:11:49.554
Yes.
Seth
00:11:49.602 - 00:12:46.338
And he goes into his back room, which did not exist in the Snyder cut. Literally, Joss was like, ah, just make a shitty one room set that looks like it might be, you know, Batman's masturbate cave.
And we'll make that happen. And they go back in there and this whole interaction where she puts her.
His arm back in his shoulder, you could just tell neither of them gave a fuck. Especially with the overt sexism in all of the jokes that were added in.
Weirdly, the jokes that Joss Whedon put in made all of the jokes that were originally in the Snyder cut less funny.
Like, when I watched the two and then I walked because literally when I finished Justice League, I was so pissed that I just started the Snyder cut five minutes later, and there were jokes in there that I was like, this is significantly funnier than when it was in the other one. How. And it's literally because the shit, shittiness of the jokes that he put in there brought down the quality of everything else.
Kyle
00:12:46.434 - 00:12:46.754
Yeah.
Seth
00:12:46.802 - 00:13:20.226
Also the way he edited things. And just because I. I watched a comparison video to prepare for this. The.
The best point this guy made was that when you watch the Justice League version versus the Snyder cut version, you can tell Joss Whedon's entire goal was just hit the only plot points that we need for this to make sense. Sense. Don't put any other background. Don't put any other emotional attributes. Don't put anything else that doesn't just get us to the next scene.
And you could just see that all the emotion was just sucked out of it.
Kyle
00:13:20.298 - 00:13:21.442
I also. Go ahead.
Drew
00:13:21.466 - 00:14:15.498
Well, I feel like when you watch this movie, and this is maybe this is a big issue with this movie and other version of their movies, in the DC movies, it's like just like when you're sitting in a car and you catch a couple having an awkward argument and you're like, in the back, like, I don't know what.
Like, you can see the dysfunction that DC was going through when you watch the justice, like, the Justice Justice League because you see everyone having to overwork. You see everything's thrown together. It was like the last minute. Like, it was like a school project. Oh, crap.
I have to have The Justice League movie out tomorrow. Well, I guess we better throw something together like you.
And that, that for me in a lot of ways with a lot of these DC movies ends up being a problem is like, like when I go into the movie, I hate that. I know, because you know, social media and TikTok, I hate that I already know all the dysfunction that went behind this movie and other movies.
I mean, there's probably just as much dysfunction.
Seth
00:14:15.594 - 00:14:16.154
Oh always.
Drew
00:14:16.242 - 00:14:47.848
You know, and all kinds of different networks like that. But you don't hear about it as much as you do with the dc. I just, I equate it to comedy shows. You know, I produce comedy shows and it's not uncommon.
This sounds mean. Don't ask me who, but it's not uncommon for me to book headliners who I don't like. But I know my crowd will. Yep, yeah, I know they'll do a good job.
I know they'll be funny. I know people will come to the shows and enjoy that person because that's their style of humor.
But like, I don't go out to, like, I don't invite them to my birthday parties. I don't like go out and hang out with them afterwards. And when I'm hosting, I still make them sound like a champion when I bring them on.
Seth
00:14:47.904 - 00:14:48.344
Oh, yeah.
Drew
00:14:48.392 - 00:15:01.144
It's because for the overall show, people don't need that kind of stuff.
But somehow with Justice League, especially with this version, you know, going into it, you knew all the dysfunction and you then you also watched it and you saw the dysfunction.
Seth
00:15:01.192 - 00:15:01.548
Yeah.
Drew
00:15:01.624 - 00:15:02.004
So.
Seth
00:15:02.092 - 00:15:49.774
And that's, I think why I kind of liked it when I first saw it was because none of that had come out yet. No one was talking about how horrible the working conditions were.
But literally, like this version of the movie is, is what is credited to turning Ben Affleck into a full on alcoholic, breaking up his relationship with Jennifer Garner.
Ray Fisher literally sued Joss Whedon and Warner Brothers and the CEO of Warner Brothers over the overt sexism and racism that was going on during this production. Literally, Joss Whedon apparently would just sit there and insult everyone, especially if they were people of color.
And then on top of that, would just sit there and rip apart Zack Snyder, basically calling him an idiot while he's literally grieving the suicidal death of his child.
Kyle
00:15:49.862 - 00:15:50.318
Yeah.
Seth
00:15:50.414 - 00:15:54.302
Like just a complete scumbag as far as I'm concerned.
Drew
00:15:54.366 - 00:16:03.730
Is that like, even if those are your thoughts, when you come to work, you, you would think the person like, oh, that's an inside Thought. Yeah, that's not something I'm gonna say.
Kyle
00:16:03.770 - 00:16:04.610
Inside voices.
Drew
00:16:04.690 - 00:16:07.138
That's. That's not something I'm gonna say to somebody.
Seth
00:16:07.234 - 00:16:07.554
Yeah.
Kyle
00:16:07.602 - 00:16:09.682
Yeah, I love that. That's hilarious, dude.
Seth
00:16:09.746 - 00:16:10.082
Yeah.
Kyle
00:16:10.146 - 00:16:12.434
An inside thought. Like, inside voices when we were kids.
Drew
00:16:12.482 - 00:16:27.560
Yeah. I'm just saying, like, I tr. I really. I really. With, like, racists and bigots. I really do try to put myself in their shoes.
And 99% of the time, I think to myself, okay, even if that's what I thought, I wouldn't say it out loud because I'm at work.
Seth
00:16:28.580 - 00:16:29.564
Exactly.
Kyle
00:16:29.612 - 00:16:32.540
Let's keep that on the dark web. Yeah.
Drew
00:16:32.700 - 00:16:38.940
Let's post anonymously that statement. That doesn't need a hashtag Drew Davis next to it or they know.
Seth
00:16:38.980 - 00:16:39.884
Yeah, I don't know.
Kyle
00:16:40.052 - 00:17:12.422
One thing I read too, kind of just kind of tagging on is that when Whedon came on, Snyder did try to come back, and he did work on it a little bit, but just because of the strain from the executives that he just. He couldn't continue. I think he tried for, like, two months. He actually tried to come back.
And what he was under the impression of is that Whedon was only going to script polish. Yeah, that was the impression. And then Zach tried to come back again, and he's directing scenes, and Zach's like, why are they redirecting?
Yeah, like, these are. Scenes are done. Why is he redoing this? I thought he was just going to script polish, finish the movie.
Seth
00:17:12.486 - 00:17:12.870
Yeah.
Kyle
00:17:12.950 - 00:17:19.414
Why is he redoing the stuff I've already done? And it was a. Just another insult to a guy, like you said, who's mourning the loss of his daughter.
Seth
00:17:19.462 - 00:17:35.152
Yeah. Literally, when this version came out, because Christopher Nolan and Zack Snyder are really good friends.
Chris and Emma Thomas went and saw it, and he immediately called Zack Snyder and said, do not watch this movie. It is not your movie. And it will just.
Kyle
00:17:35.256 - 00:17:37.136
He still hasn't seen it last. I researched.
Seth
00:17:37.168 - 00:17:39.392
Yeah, yeah, like. And there's no reason for him to.
Drew
00:17:39.416 - 00:17:45.866
It's literally like something much. I feel like, you know, he was there for the chunk of the good stuff. He doesn't need to.
Seth
00:17:45.968 - 00:18:17.586
And I think we've said this before, but I'll reiterate for the podcast, this movie was what, two and a half to two hours? 45 minutes. Snyder cut four hours. These movies share 45 minutes of footage.
And because I hadn't seen this one in a while, I didn't, you know, that registered with me, but it didn't truly register with me until I sat there and was like. Oh, like scenes that look the same and take place in the same room sometimes totally different.
Kyle
00:18:17.658 - 00:18:17.906
Yeah.
Drew
00:18:17.938 - 00:18:30.770
That's not something I picked up on. And then like when you said that even watching it, I still didn't pick up on it, but I was like, I knew it as I knew it was the case.
Even though watching it, I didn't notice.
Seth
00:18:30.850 - 00:18:35.890
Yeah. It just, it's. Oh my God, this movie makes me so angry.
Kyle
00:18:36.050 - 00:18:46.892
Yeah, I know. And one thing else I want to reiterate too is that, you know, we're going to. When we talk about this movie, Zach's name is all over it.
But when we're criticizing, we also are aware, like the tragedy that happened.
Seth
00:18:46.956 - 00:18:47.292
Yeah.
Kyle
00:18:47.356 - 00:18:52.364
It's not like we're going to talk about this movie, but obviously super mournful, horrible experience and.
Seth
00:18:52.452 - 00:18:59.612
But also it's not his movie. Yes, he was credited as the director, but he directed 45 minutes of a two and a half hour movie, which.
Drew
00:18:59.636 - 00:19:06.252
Is why he probably was totally okay with dropping that four hour one later. Because you want people to know this was what I was intending.
Kyle
00:19:06.316 - 00:19:06.748
Yeah.
Seth
00:19:06.844 - 00:19:21.446
Even if that wasn't going to be the theatrical cut that he was going to put out. That was his everything version. And he was like, look, look at the story, the world that I was trying to build.
Look at the plan that I had and look at how they just shat all over it.
Kyle
00:19:21.598 - 00:19:22.406
Yeah, it's.
Seth
00:19:22.438 - 00:19:37.792
It to me, it's like the end of the, the Harry Potter movie with, with Edward. Not Edward, Robert Pattinson, where the, the dad's just like, look what they did to my boy. What did they do?
That's probably what it would have felt like if he, if he'd actually watch this movie.
Drew
00:19:37.856 - 00:20:05.394
That's the, I mean, the reason this movie is hard to watch is one, the editing choices they made. Like, there's things that they should have put in there to make it make more sense. Yeah.
And then two, just, you know, like the injustice that was found in the Justice League, you know, the, the kind of issues and what, I mean, what a, what a kick in the nuts to Zack Snyder, you know?
Kyle
00:20:05.482 - 00:20:05.842
Yeah.
Drew
00:20:05.906 - 00:20:17.266
And then all knowing that the actors had such a hard time dealing with their new director and like, it's just. And again, this is all stuff we shouldn't as viewers know.
Seth
00:20:17.338 - 00:20:17.730
Yeah.
Drew
00:20:17.810 - 00:20:29.234
On one hand, but also like when, now that you know it, it's hard to like, it would be hard if someone was like, what's your favorite movie? Even if I enjoyed it, I would feel bad if I was like, Justice League. But the original.
Seth
00:20:29.282 - 00:20:30.658
I love watching pain and suffering.
Drew
00:20:30.754 - 00:20:35.290
That just feels like you're saying, like, oh, yeah, Nazis aren't that bad, E. Right.
Seth
00:20:35.910 - 00:20:48.686
So, yeah, it's. There's so much. Unfortunately, we only have, like, an hour, an hour and a half to cover this stuff. And it's like, I can't say.
Yeah, everything that I want to say because this just makes me so angry.
Drew
00:20:48.798 - 00:20:55.050
Were there any. Do we have any, like, pros, like, any perks of this movie? Is there anything nice about it?
Kyle
00:20:55.670 - 00:20:56.878
No, no.
Seth
00:20:57.014 - 00:21:27.270
Legitimately, like, the whole time I was watching it, I was trying to, like, pick out things that might have been better, but it's like, the jokes aren't funny. The jokes just already came across as discount Avengers. Like, you went to the Dollar General to buy the. The.
The superhero team instead of the Avengers. Like, that's what it felt like. The ending. Oh, my God, I forgot that the.
The whole reason Joss Whedon wrote that first scene with Batman where he's like, what do you want?
Drew
00:21:27.400 - 00:21:28.122
Fear?
Seth
00:21:28.266 - 00:21:40.762
The whole reason they put that in was simply so he could change the entirety of the ending and have all the parademons fly him through the portal as beating the bad guy because he's scared of the parademons.
Kyle
00:21:40.826 - 00:21:41.162
Yeah.
Seth
00:21:41.226 - 00:21:45.338
Like, what the actual fuck were you thinking? Oh, my God.
Kyle
00:21:45.434 - 00:21:52.122
Yeah, it's bad. And I'm already not a superhero guy, so I'm like. I hate to say it, but I come into these movies, I'm like, impress me.
Drew
00:21:52.146 - 00:21:54.970
Yeah, I know it's going to be bad.
Kyle
00:21:55.010 - 00:21:55.370
Yeah.
Drew
00:21:55.450 - 00:21:57.504
And then you watch it. You're like, I want. Wasn't wrong.
Kyle
00:21:57.552 - 00:22:06.240
So. And. And here's the thing. I. It's. And I. And we. I know we joke. I'm an old guy curmudgeon guy, but I hold Nolan's Batman movies in high esteem.
Like, those.
Seth
00:22:06.280 - 00:22:06.928
Absolutely.
Kyle
00:22:07.024 - 00:22:14.940
Those are incredible. And I do like. And I do like the Batman lore. In fact, update. I'm halfway through the first season of the Animated Series with my kids. They love it.
Seth
00:22:15.800 - 00:22:16.416
So good.
Kyle
00:22:16.488 - 00:22:17.600
All four of my kids.
Seth
00:22:17.680 - 00:22:18.176
Hell yeah.
Kyle
00:22:18.208 - 00:22:32.106
Love the Batman animated. And it's not that scary. Anyway, Side note, but love it. I. I can enjoy. And I even liked some of the Marvel movies. Didn't love, but, like, I loved. I.
It's funny. I liked Iron Man 2. Nobody else did. I actually liked Iron Man.
Seth
00:22:32.178 - 00:22:36.618
Yeah. I hated Iron Man 2, but I'm. I'm on the. The team that I loved Edward Norton's Hulk.
Kyle
00:22:36.714 - 00:22:37.114
Yeah.
Seth
00:22:37.162 - 00:22:40.314
Like, I think it's way better than anything Marlow did with the character.
Kyle
00:22:40.362 - 00:22:41.178
I Agree with you there, too.
Drew
00:22:41.234 - 00:22:44.298
It's a good Hulk. He had. They added issues working with him.
Kyle
00:22:44.354 - 00:22:47.354
Oh, I know. Well, they saw him when he was angry. Offset.
Seth
00:22:47.402 - 00:22:47.770
Yeah.
Kyle
00:22:47.850 - 00:22:48.202
Yeah.
Seth
00:22:48.266 - 00:23:00.298
And when he decided to rewrite the script and basically directed the movie without being credited as the director. No, I get why they got rid of him. And it's unfortunate because I think what he did with the character was way better.
Drew
00:23:00.354 - 00:23:10.590
But I know that was one of those. That was another one of those. When I watched the movies, I didn't know all the issues, and I was like, man, this is a good movie. And then you hear.
Learn the issues. You're like, well, it makes sense.
Seth
00:23:11.250 - 00:23:35.476
Granted, I would be interested to know what the script was like before he rewrote it, because what he put out was fantastic. But I can. Yeah, again, I can understand, especially with someone like Kevin Feige, who had such a specific plan.
Even if, like, The Avengers wasn't 100% where he was initially going with it, he, like, still had that in the back of his head and he was like, I got to make sure it all fits together in case we do get to a point where we can do this.
Kyle
00:23:35.548 - 00:23:36.084
Yeah.
Seth
00:23:36.212 - 00:23:48.922
This, I think the biggest problem just in general with the dceu, they did not ever have the guy who wasn't directing movies to oversee the continuity.
Kyle
00:23:48.986 - 00:23:49.274
Yeah.
Seth
00:23:49.322 - 00:24:22.690
Because as much as I do love the fact that Zack Snyder did have a full, fully thought out plan as far as, like, what he wanted to do, they needed someone who wasn't that close to the material to be able to come in and be like, we gotta. We gotta move things a little. This direction, that direction. And this is the problem I'm having with James Gunn is James Gunn is now the co.
CEO of DC Studios, but he's also directing half the movies. Like. Like, this is legitimately. I think he's gonna be too close to it, and he's not gonna let people tell him no.
Kyle
00:24:22.730 - 00:24:22.898
Yeah.
Drew
00:24:22.914 - 00:24:26.866
He needs a person to be like, we need to move this around to make this movie better.
Kyle
00:24:26.938 - 00:24:38.578
And he's already pissed off a bunch of actors and a bunch of fans. Like, people were pissed about how he treated Henry Cavill and that whole thing. He, like, instantly wrote him up. We're gonna move on. Yeah.
Like, he instantly. He started off on a bad face and then he put the red trunks on.
Seth
00:24:38.634 - 00:24:40.840
Yeah. And it's just absurd now.
Kyle
00:24:41.540 - 00:24:48.716
Speaking of absurd, think of one person I want you to fan. Close your eyes, listener. Close your eyes.
Seth
00:24:48.828 - 00:24:51.708
Only me. Only me and the Lord. All right. With our eyes open.
Kyle
00:24:51.844 - 00:24:57.084
Think about that One person who needs Movie wars needs Jesus, needs Movie Wars.
Drew
00:24:57.132 - 00:24:57.900
They need justice.
Kyle
00:24:57.980 - 00:25:08.746
They need justice. And I want you to spam that person with links to our podcast. I want you to email, fax, call, mail, flyers, pigeon, whatever you got.
Drew
00:25:08.818 - 00:25:10.058
Smoke, Snickles, I.
Kyle
00:25:10.114 - 00:25:17.834
If you're not getting a restraining order from that front person that you thought was your friend because you have spammed them with so much Movie wars material, you're not doing your job.
Seth
00:25:17.922 - 00:25:21.950
Yeah, do it and share them all. Spotify, YouTube.
Drew
00:25:22.450 - 00:25:23.258
This will be a tough.
Seth
00:25:23.274 - 00:25:24.150
Any of the others.
Drew
00:25:25.330 - 00:25:30.346
Hey, I know you're a fan of Justice League, the first one. And we're somehow still friends.
Kyle
00:25:30.418 - 00:25:40.970
You ever want to be. Just start off. This is a great way to start off a conversation. Hey, you know, you. That thing you love, you want to hear a bunch of people shit on it?
It's a great way to start. That's how I start every job interview.
Drew
00:25:41.050 - 00:25:43.274
I'll say one positive thing about this movie.
Seth
00:25:43.322 - 00:25:43.722
Okay.
Drew
00:25:43.786 - 00:26:48.574
But it's not even about the movie particular. But, like, one thing I. I've realized as we've watched the Snyder Cuts and the Snyderverse, I don't prefer the darker version of superhero stories.
Sure. Like, I like. I like to pretend that we're in a happy world. I like to pretend that things are good and superheroes have good.
So, like, one thing that this movie did intentionally was. And you saw it was like the lighting scheme and everything. They just tried to give it more bright and they were going for the more Avengers.
You know, look. And me as a watcher, I. I gravitate to that more. It was. And I liked that. I liked that. I mean, I'm sure that if.
If Snyder's Cut actually made it to theatrical, it would have been the same. But I liked that there was a quicker pacing. I. Oh, definitely. Yeah. And so that was the one thing that I appreciated about this movie.
And the thing I didn't like when I first saw it was there was, like, no character development for, like, the Flash or Cyborg, Aquaman, anyone. And so in this movie, it was kind of misleading this time watching, because I'd already seen all the other movies.
Kyle
00:26:48.622 - 00:26:49.166
Yeah, yeah.
Drew
00:26:49.198 - 00:26:54.142
So I was like, oh, I know all this stuff about Aquaman. Well, I didn't when that movie came out, because that stuff hadn't come out yet.
Kyle
00:26:54.246 - 00:26:54.894
Right.
Seth
00:26:55.062 - 00:28:14.190
For me, I completely respect that and in some ways agree with parts of that. For me, the thing that I respected about Snyder was he had a very clear plan from 2013 to 2023 where he was gonna get Man Of Steel, man of steel 2.
Both of those were gonna be in there. All three Justice League movies. The solo Batman movie, there were gonna be two Wonder Woman movies.
And then he was gonna end the whole thing with a Flashpoint movie so that within that 10 years, you were gonna have his entire universe. And then from then on, after the Flashpoint movie, that was gonna open up the multiverse, and DC could do whatever they wanted after that.
But he was very clearly saying, look, just give me this 10 years. Give me this 10 years. Let me do the thing that is completely different from what Marvel's doing. And then you can do anything.
You can literally, you could keep the same characters. You could take different characters, you could keep the same actors. Whatever. You can do whatever you want. Just let me tell this completed story.
And that's probably the biggest thing I'm sad about, was that we just weren't. Because I've read everything he was gonna do, and it was going to be such an epic story by the end.
By the time all was said and done, by the time it all got wrapped up, it was going to be such an epic story that I'm just. I'm sad we weren't able to see any of that come to fruition.
Kyle
00:28:14.270 - 00:28:18.478
We were gonna get a lot of other entries that were gonna be. There was gonna be 10, right? 10 total.
Seth
00:28:18.534 - 00:28:37.980
Yeah. Yeah. That were just him involved, obviously. We had, like, the Suicide Squad come in and a couple other movies that.
That were gonna be sprinkled throughout that he wasn't directly involved in. But, yeah, he had, like, his core 10 movies that he was gonna be deeply involved with.
And then, like I said, it was all gonna reset or open up in the multiverse and people could do whatever they wanted.
Drew
00:28:38.320 - 00:28:51.960
I have thoughts on that that I wanna talk about at the next episode when we're talking about, like, Snyder. But I do want it to be known that in last week's episode, Seth gave me the homework assignment of going and reading and learning all about the.
All the upcoming movies that Snyder was gonna do.
Seth
00:28:52.000 - 00:28:52.344
Yeah.
Drew
00:28:52.392 - 00:28:58.244
And I did do that. I did. Immediately after recording, I went things and sat down on my phone.
Seth
00:28:58.372 - 00:28:59.556
What a perfect time.
Drew
00:28:59.628 - 00:29:08.692
It was so nice. It was so much fun. And I do have thoughts. But, like, you have to tune in next week because I don't want to.
I don't want to on Snyder when we're able to on Josh.
Seth
00:29:08.756 - 00:29:11.380
Yeah, let's. On Joss Wheat in that.
Kyle
00:29:11.500 - 00:29:16.480
Never interrupt your enemy. Never interrupt your enemy while they're making a mistake. Right.
Seth
00:29:18.860 - 00:29:20.820
That. That needs to Be our next T shirt.
Kyle
00:29:20.900 - 00:29:39.322
Yes. Movie Wars. Oh, the questions, the questions. Now, I realize that this is completely a falsehood, but when.
When I'm watching this, this Steppenwolf, my first thought was, what 94 year old man did they hire to write and voice Steppenwolf?
Seth
00:29:39.386 - 00:29:39.962
Oh, my God.
Kyle
00:29:40.026 - 00:29:44.906
I know he's primitive. I know he's thousands of years old, but why does he have to sound like a grumpy old man?
Seth
00:29:44.978 - 00:29:46.794
And he just looks like a ball sack.
Kyle
00:29:46.842 - 00:29:47.258
He does.
Drew
00:29:47.314 - 00:30:00.460
He looks like he's been through so much. Like, in addition to, you know, losing his job with Darkseid, looks like he got broken up with.
It looks like he's, he's like, like sober, but not long enough where he's like overcoming. He's still feeling it really big, you know?
Kyle
00:30:00.500 - 00:30:07.068
You know what he looks like? He looks like a lung that you see, and they're like, don't. Smoking. Yeah. With a helmet on.
Seth
00:30:07.124 - 00:30:07.660
Absolutely.
Drew
00:30:07.740 - 00:30:10.684
Like, at any point, at any point, he's gonna turn to you. He's like, don't do drugs.
Kyle
00:30:10.732 - 00:30:12.428
He looks like a cancerous lung.
Seth
00:30:12.604 - 00:30:16.640
No, no. He's gonna have the thing on his neck and be like, don't do drugs, kids.
Drew
00:30:16.980 - 00:30:24.776
It's like the only thing harder than getting all the. You know, he's gonna say, do you know the only thing that's harder than getting all the motherbox getting off a crack?
Kyle
00:30:24.888 - 00:30:26.296
Yeah. Yeah.
Seth
00:30:26.488 - 00:31:19.364
I think my biggest criticism with this, as far as Steppenwolf is concerned, anyone.
And I know barely anything about Superman, especially in the Justice League, but anyone who knows anything about this set of characters that we're dealing with knows that, A, Steppenwolf has never been a big baddie. He's always been an underling, but B, he's always been kind of a bitch, like, compared, because.
Because the whole thing, he is dark sides, I think nephew or something like that. I don't think he's his son, but he's like, yeah, part of Darkseid's family. And. And the.
The one big episode he's in, in the Superman animated series, literally, Darkseid is just like, no, no, we're not gonna go attack Earth because Superman's there. We're not gonna deal with this. And Steppenwolf is just like, I'm approved to my uncle that I'm actually smart and I could do this.
Kyle
00:31:19.452 - 00:31:19.716
Yeah.
Seth
00:31:19.748 - 00:31:41.310
And he goes to Earth and gets his ass handed to him. And the fact that Joss Whedon, this whole thing literally looked like Joss Whedon.
Read the Spark Notes of what Zack Snyder did and looked at none of the other source material and was just like, oh, well, he's the guy, so we're just going to make him the guy. Everyone knows he's not the guy. He's barely a guy.
Drew
00:31:41.470 - 00:31:58.174
So I like that he was the villain for Justice League one. Knowing that there. If there had been two more movies and we were getting bigger and better because you always want to give yourself somewhere to go.
They would. If they were to start off right off the bat with Darkseid being the. I mean, that would have been. That wouldn't rough.
Seth
00:31:58.222 - 00:31:59.022
Oh, absolutely.
Drew
00:31:59.086 - 00:32:16.288
So I actually, I liked his. I mean, obviously the Snyder cut gives Stefan looks, well, so much more characterization. We get to. We see why he's like, why he's so pathetic.
We see why he's so run down. But I actually like this look of him, the ball sack look of Zechariah.
Seth
00:32:16.384 - 00:32:18.512
The ball sack dressed in ancient Egyptian.
Drew
00:32:18.576 - 00:32:53.904
Garb versus, like the rock metal, like punk rock, you know, Dragon Force mascot that we get in the next one because in that one he does look more badass. But to me, part of his characterization that makes him a good villain for this movie is he is pathetic.
He is trying to redeem himself in his own eyes. Like he is the lowest of the low in the villain world, in his.
In his group, in his friend group, and he's doing his best, but he's also like, you know, like, he's a bit of a failure. And so like, so him looking like a 90,000 year old man while he's trying to, you know, get off my law.
Kyle
00:32:53.992 - 00:32:58.820
Yeah, I kept waiting for him to say that. Yeah, like, these women need to get off my lawn.
Drew
00:32:59.640 - 00:33:18.652
It worked for. It worked for me. And like, even like in the next movie, when.
Or excuse the next version, Snyder cut, when he's like, there's that scene where like, he's fighting them all and he like tells all this pair of demons to back off because he wants to fight Wonder Woman one on one. Yeah, that was like a great moment because it was like he was like, no, I need to prove to everyone and myself that I'm not like such a loser.
Seth
00:33:18.716 - 00:33:37.564
Yeah, well, especially in, in that version, knowing that, like, you know, the Amazonians and the Atlanteans and the gods of Earth, like, are the ones who literally put Darkseid down and put him back in the ship. Like having that moment with him versus Wonder Woman was him trying to say, I'm gonna do something that dark side.
Drew
00:33:37.652 - 00:33:59.546
His whole, like, I. I see and we talked about this maybe even last week, because we were talking about Lex Luthor. But I love this about villains.
When you can clearly point out their motivating factor, whether it's smart or not, you can say, so Stephan Wolf, he's just trying to prove himself to Darkseid. Like, that's his big thing. Lex Luthor is just trying to rid the world of aliens.
Now, they were both doing terrible things and maybe not going about this in the most healthy way.
Seth
00:33:59.618 - 00:34:02.230
They're way harder to justify than Thanos was.
Drew
00:34:02.690 - 00:34:30.076
You know, they have their own character flaws. Maybe don't, you know, try to exterminate the whole race to help with our resource problem.
You know, like, maybe don't, you know, try to destroy an entire planet and take, you know, thousands of heads to impress your God. You know, maybe don't try to kill an alien and bring a resurrected. A poop alien monster to save Earth. You know, like, they're villains.
They're not supposed to be. Correct. But, like, when you can point to why they're the way they are.
Seth
00:34:30.148 - 00:34:30.556
Exactly.
Drew
00:34:30.588 - 00:34:32.188
It makes it more captivating story.
Seth
00:34:32.244 - 00:34:32.684
Exactly.
Kyle
00:34:32.732 - 00:34:35.384
Without the backdrop of Darkseid, he's just pathetic.
Seth
00:34:35.432 - 00:34:35.752
Yeah.
Kyle
00:34:35.816 - 00:35:03.346
Those interactions gave me because, again, I approach these as someone that doesn't read the comics, like, once. And I don't want to get too much into Snyder Kit, but once Darkseid starts to interact and make himself apparent, like, I couldn't believe.
I was like, oh, yeah, this makes sense. Yeah. Like, he's just like, again, grumpy old man here. Okay, so serious question. They were going to split this into two, right?
This one was intended to be split. No, they were never gonna split it. I read that they were gonna split this into two initially.
Seth
00:35:03.378 - 00:35:04.130
No, no, no, no.
Kyle
00:35:04.170 - 00:35:04.418
Okay.
Seth
00:35:04.434 - 00:35:06.866
I thought part one of the three.
Kyle
00:35:06.938 - 00:35:07.474
That's right.
Seth
00:35:07.562 - 00:35:08.306
That Snyder had.
Kyle
00:35:08.378 - 00:35:09.090
Okay.
Seth
00:35:09.250 - 00:35:15.570
Part two was going to be injustice, where Batman and Superman are fully against each other.
Kyle
00:35:15.610 - 00:35:16.242
Okay.
Seth
00:35:16.386 - 00:35:38.780
Lois Lane was going to die. Darkseid was going to come in and convince him to join him, which is something that happens in the comics.
And Superman joining Darkseid is actually the series finale of the Superman Animated Series. So that is something that has plenty of canon behind it. It's also what was set up in Batman vs Superman when Flash shows up and says Lois is the key.
Drew
00:35:38.900 - 00:35:51.244
It's actually like, okay, first of all, the only problem I have with that eventual storyline was the injustice storyline. And the Superman and Darkseid storyline are two completely different awesome storylines.
Seth
00:35:51.292 - 00:35:51.596
Sure.
Drew
00:35:51.668 - 00:35:58.258
So it kind of bothers me that they were like, let's take these two and combine them because, like, either one of those would have been amazing stories.
Seth
00:35:58.354 - 00:35:58.898
Sure.
Drew
00:35:59.034 - 00:36:45.516
For me, it is, like, the most. It is the coolest thing, though, when. Well, I mean, it sucks for Superman, but when Darkseid.
When Darkseid manipulates him, mind controls him, causes him to go destroy planets and do terrible things. And then when Superman recovers, he has a hatred for Darkseid that is unlike any other. Darkseid's the only villain that he would be okay with.
Part of that storyline is when they go back to save the people and go to Darkseid's world. Superman is ready to destroy the world with Darkseid, and Batman has to stop him.
And then the ending line, he's like, Because Batman's like, I stopped you from doing something you regret. And then Superman's like, you're not always right. That was his, like, one or torrent. Yeah, but so it would have been. I like.
I like the injustice storyline, and I like the dark side storyline. I don't love that they tried to combine the two of them.
Seth
00:36:45.588 - 00:37:12.510
I think it could have been interesting, and I think Snyder could have pulled it off just because, again, I like to view the movies as their own entity. It's their own comic. Like, you can't. The people who are like, this isn't canon. It is canon in one version of the comics.
And there's literally hundreds of different versions of Superman and of Batman just depending on which comic you choose to read. So I think he could have done it. It would have been interesting to see what would have. But I do understand what you're saying.
Drew
00:37:13.050 - 00:37:19.790
I think I have. We'll talk about this next week. I think I have less faith in his storytelling ability than you do, and.
Seth
00:37:20.410 - 00:37:23.698
We'Ll talk about that later. Yeah, I don't know, but I can't.
Kyle
00:37:23.714 - 00:37:25.430
Wait to chip in on that conversation.
Drew
00:37:27.210 - 00:37:41.650
I don't know if you guys are having a hard time with this, but, like, I think it's important that we like, because we know we're gonna be talking about the Snyderverse movie next week. We don't want to, you know, we don't want to drop all of our gems here and then be like, well, last week we said this.
Kyle
00:37:41.690 - 00:37:47.430
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we don't want to drop trou here. Yeah, that's weird.
Drew
00:37:48.570 - 00:37:51.190
It's been a week, and I'm still not okay with that phrase.
Kyle
00:37:51.770 - 00:37:54.110
Oh, that's stuck in your cr.
Drew
00:37:54.630 - 00:37:57.454
Okay, well, that one sounds worse.
Kyle
00:37:57.502 - 00:37:58.958
I left that intro in, by the way.
Drew
00:37:59.014 - 00:37:59.246
Okay.
Seth
00:37:59.278 - 00:38:00.290
It's hilarious.
Kyle
00:38:00.950 - 00:38:08.810
He's got something in his crop. Last question. Aquaman. More like land guy. When is this guy ever in the water?
Seth
00:38:09.110 - 00:38:11.486
For two scenes, he's rarely in the water.
Kyle
00:38:11.558 - 00:38:22.874
And I. I realize that Again next week, different story. But in this one, yeah, I. I just. The whole time I'm thinking, when is he in the water?
When is Aquaman aquified? Like, he's never there.
Seth
00:38:22.962 - 00:38:23.706
Yeah.
Drew
00:38:23.898 - 00:38:40.682
Oh, my God, I found so much humor. And at the end when he was fighting and all the, like, the little war cries he was going for, I was like. I was just like, who brought the frat boy?
Who, like, does he think he's at a kegger right now? And he's like.
Kyle
00:38:40.786 - 00:38:44.698
I've heard him compared to a biker. That's what a lot of people compared him to. He's got, like, a biker attitude.
Seth
00:38:44.794 - 00:39:02.688
That was probably, again, just another huge problem I have with what Joss Whedon did, was he just completely neutered every character and tried to take a stereotype and apply it to the character versus taking what the character was and try to make it his own.
Drew
00:39:02.744 - 00:39:03.120
Yeah.
Seth
00:39:03.200 - 00:39:06.480
Like, there was nothing original about any way that he directed anyone.
Drew
00:39:06.560 - 00:39:21.642
There was nothing. I mean, really.
It was almost like, in especially the Justice League one, you could take out so many of those characters and just leave Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman and, like, the bad guys just fine.
Seth
00:39:21.706 - 00:39:21.994
Yeah.
Drew
00:39:22.042 - 00:39:35.834
And, like, I know, like, now when I watch Aquaman, I have all this, like, backstory from his two movies and stuff like that. And so, like, I don't notice as much of the fact that he's pretty useless in this movie. Yeah.
Kyle
00:39:35.882 - 00:39:36.282
Yeah.
Drew
00:39:36.346 - 00:39:47.740
Because I'm, like, reminded of, like, all the cool things he did in his other movies. But when you. If that's all you had was this movie, you'd easily look at, you know, Cyborg, Flash, and Aquaman and be like, why are they here?
Yeah, like, who?
Seth
00:39:47.850 - 00:39:55.992
Yeah, why? Why do they need them? Like, why did they go to so many lengths to try to build this team together when these three people do absolutely nothing?
Kyle
00:39:56.136 - 00:40:10.120
Yeah. Retroactively, too. I think it's a good tip for anyone that wants to create comic book characters. Don't create.
Don't name the character after the place they spend a lot of time, because then they'll be out of place because, like, thank God they didn't call Superman Airman.
Seth
00:40:10.200 - 00:40:10.504
Yeah.
Kyle
00:40:10.552 - 00:40:18.590
Or Batman Cave Guy. You know, it's just like. Because when they're not there, it's like, what the are you doing out here? Go back to the water pimp. Right.
Seth
00:40:19.930 - 00:40:20.354
Yeah.
Drew
00:40:20.402 - 00:40:25.010
Clearly, clearly he wasn't doing his job in the water. They got the box from the water pretty early on in the.
Kyle
00:40:25.050 - 00:40:26.710
The fish are dying. Yeah.
Drew
00:40:27.770 - 00:40:39.154
I, I, I will, I will say this, and maybe it's more of a testament to the next movie, the, the Snyder version. I had so many issues with Superman's characterization in the last movie. Batman versus Superman.
Seth
00:40:39.202 - 00:40:39.522
Yeah.
Drew
00:40:39.586 - 00:40:42.978
He redeemed himself in, in these movies. Like, I liked Superman better.
Seth
00:40:43.034 - 00:40:43.440
Yeah.
Drew
00:40:43.530 - 00:40:49.236
His lines were. Again, I think my favorite line was when. When he's like, I have a thing to say about justice or truth. Right.
Seth
00:40:49.308 - 00:40:52.612
Oh, my God. That was like, get it?
Drew
00:40:52.636 - 00:40:53.268
Superman.
Kyle
00:40:53.364 - 00:40:53.732
Yeah.
Seth
00:40:53.796 - 00:41:01.268
Yeah. The fact that he just comes in also, how the fuck did he know they were there? No one told him that they were there. And he just shows up and he's.
Drew
00:41:01.284 - 00:41:02.100
Just like, I don't know.
Seth
00:41:02.140 - 00:41:04.628
I'm here for justice and truth.
Kyle
00:41:04.724 - 00:41:04.996
Yeah.
Seth
00:41:05.028 - 00:41:07.620
I was like, just say the American way. Just say it.
Kyle
00:41:07.660 - 00:41:08.920
Just say your prayers.
Drew
00:41:09.260 - 00:41:14.728
That's a new thing now. They have, have, they have comic books have a hundred percent taken the American way out.
Seth
00:41:14.784 - 00:41:15.320
Oh, yeah.
Drew
00:41:15.400 - 00:41:20.104
Said Liberty and said, but they look at what's going on in America and, like, that doesn't seem very Superman.
Kyle
00:41:20.152 - 00:41:20.780
Yeah.
Seth
00:41:21.120 - 00:41:23.800
Also, let's talk about the mouth.
Kyle
00:41:23.960 - 00:41:25.400
Yeah. It's my first rando.
Seth
00:41:25.480 - 00:41:27.912
Okay, cool. Well, let's just get there. Yeah.
Kyle
00:41:27.976 - 00:41:37.800
Rando. Super randos. Super randos. Get back in the water. Oh, sorry. I'm so mad at Aquaman right now. I don't know why.
Drew
00:41:37.840 - 00:41:44.594
It's just, just he has a punchable face. I, I think we love to hate Jason Momoa. Jason.
Seth
00:41:44.642 - 00:41:45.602
Mimosa. Thank you.
Drew
00:41:45.626 - 00:41:50.098
He just looked like. I'm sure I've never met him personally. He's probably a wonderful person, but, like, oh.
Seth
00:41:50.114 - 00:41:52.962
Everyone I've talked to who has been up says he's the genuine.
Drew
00:41:53.026 - 00:41:53.250
Right.
Kyle
00:41:53.290 - 00:41:53.634
Yes.
Seth
00:41:53.682 - 00:41:53.954
Guy.
Drew
00:41:54.002 - 00:41:56.322
But doesn't he look like every high school bully?
Kyle
00:41:56.386 - 00:41:57.150
He does.
Seth
00:41:58.010 - 00:42:00.194
And also got against Polynesians. Bro.
Kyle
00:42:00.282 - 00:42:03.122
Isn't that everybody's favorite girl Scout cookie? The Mamoan?
Seth
00:42:03.266 - 00:42:07.746
Some of. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't have them because they're covered in coconut.
Drew
00:42:07.778 - 00:42:10.584
But he saved Fast X for me.
Kyle
00:42:10.672 - 00:42:11.800
So, like, there you go.
Drew
00:42:11.840 - 00:42:18.460
He is my superhero. Aquaman did save Fast X. There was no water, but he did just fine.
Kyle
00:42:18.800 - 00:42:28.500
So. Because Mission Impossible Fallout was being filmed at the same time as this way better movie. Way better movie. Many are. Many are.
Drew
00:42:28.960 - 00:42:32.728
That what I'm right to think? That was the Henry Cavill. Okay. Yeah.
Kyle
00:42:32.904 - 00:42:42.482
Henry Cavill, though, has a mustache. And Paramount said, you cannot shave that off because you're committed to filming this. And so when he was doing cuts as Superman for Justice League.
Seth
00:42:42.666 - 00:42:43.618
Justice League.
Kyle
00:42:43.674 - 00:43:05.866
Justice League. Justice League, they. They had to CGI out his mustache. And so that's why. So this is funny. Seth, you're gonna laugh at this because my.
My wife watched this with me, which is funny. She rarely watches the movies we cover. But, yeah, we were watching it together, and she. She said something that really took me.
Took me off guard at first because I didn't know about this factoid.
Seth
00:43:05.938 - 00:43:06.362
Oh.
Kyle
00:43:06.426 - 00:43:08.810
At the very first scene. The cell phone thing.
Seth
00:43:08.850 - 00:43:09.146
Yep.
Kyle
00:43:09.178 - 00:43:28.954
She's like, why did they get a different actor to play Superman? And I'm like. At first I was like, they didn't get a different actor. I know that much.
But then I'm looking at him like, he does kind of look different. Yeah. And then I'm looking at the whole movie. I'm like, what. What is wrong with. Something is off. I knew it. And then I read this.
I'm like, dude, I thought the first scene was a different person.
Seth
00:43:29.042 - 00:43:48.050
Nope, Nope. It's. It looks worse than the Annoying Orange videos from, like, 2007.
I didn't know at the time and didn't really notice because it was just all new and happening and. But watching it this time, it's now even more obvious. When he was pulling from Snyder's.
Drew
00:43:48.130 - 00:43:56.962
I'm gonna go. Because I do remember seeing scenes of Superman and assuming it was just, like, a filter. How was some.
Because I do remember thinking, like, something looks different. It was one of those back of the mind thoughts where.
Kyle
00:43:56.986 - 00:43:57.410
Yeah.
Seth
00:43:57.490 - 00:44:04.504
There are moments where literally his mouth is moving this way independently from his head. It's so bad.
Kyle
00:44:04.672 - 00:44:05.912
Yeah, it's.
Seth
00:44:06.056 - 00:44:32.660
Oh, my God, it's so bad. And you can tell because there's. There's the shots that were in the Snyder cut.
Like, best example is the scene where he's fighting them when he first is resurrected. All of those shots of him were completely from the Snyder cut. Then you shoot to him in the cornfield with Lois, which was all reshot.
In fact, I could even say that it looked like a set versus the actual cornfield where Zack's Snyder shot it.
Kyle
00:44:32.700 - 00:44:33.236
Yeah.
Seth
00:44:33.348 - 00:44:35.604
His mouth is moving independently of his head.
Kyle
00:44:35.692 - 00:44:36.308
Like, it's bad.
Seth
00:44:36.364 - 00:44:37.796
It's so bad.
Kyle
00:44:37.948 - 00:44:39.940
In a movie where there's so much cgi.
Seth
00:44:40.020 - 00:44:40.324
Yeah.
Kyle
00:44:40.372 - 00:44:41.716
And they've dedicated so much.
Drew
00:44:41.788 - 00:44:46.948
I was gonna say someone. Someone should get, like, a pay cut for that. Like, how fun is it?
Seth
00:44:47.004 - 00:44:50.480
Joss Whedon lost his entire career, so I think that's a pay cut.
Drew
00:44:50.940 - 00:44:57.928
I Was like, that. That is a lot of. That is a lot of money to put into, like, that. Like. Like a YouTube video.
Kyle
00:44:58.124 - 00:44:58.640
Yeah.
Seth
00:44:58.720 - 00:45:08.784
Also the fact that they just replaced the entire mouth instead of just trying to get rid of the mustache. Like, there's. We have so much technology, people. There's so much more. Better things you could have done.
Drew
00:45:08.872 - 00:45:13.152
Superman does have chest hair. He could have grown a mustache in his time as dead. Yeah.
Seth
00:45:13.216 - 00:45:17.088
Yeah. It probably would have been easier as a dead man to put a mustache on his face.
Drew
00:45:17.144 - 00:45:21.872
And then we could have made this real. And tons of people would be like, well, he's an alien. He shouldn't have hair.
Kyle
00:45:21.936 - 00:45:23.488
Yeah, yeah, sorry.
Drew
00:45:23.504 - 00:45:24.480
I'm still salty about that.
Kyle
00:45:24.520 - 00:46:29.820
I love it. No. Next Rando. And this is. This is where studying these movies gets difficult because, like, earlier, with the, like, being split into, like, there's.
There's, like. They're cutting and pasting lore together from the comics. And then we got reshoots, and it's just hard to keep up with the details.
But this is an interesting story about that fear. Interesting. Holt McCallany, the actor who plays the burglar, apparently, originally that was filmed to be comedic. And I guess.
I guess Warner wanted it to be serious, and so they made him reshoot it as serious. And Joss, as much of a dick as he is, I guess he sent this guy a bottle of scotch as a kind gesture, saying to.
It literally said to battles lost because they made it serious. Now I'm like, apparently it was supposed to be comedic. And it. But this is what's funny.
I think this is more of a indict, even a further indictment of Josh. This is the kind of. He was thinking about. He's like, well, that one scene.
I'm gonna send a bottle to the guy because we didn't get our scene, but it's like, everything else is so bad. Yeah. And this was the thing you. I'm gonna send a bottle of whiskey, and you're being racist. Like, who is this person?
Seth
00:46:29.940 - 00:46:30.492
Jesus.
Drew
00:46:30.556 - 00:46:31.308
What a weird.
Kyle
00:46:31.404 - 00:46:32.332
What a weird guy.
Drew
00:46:32.396 - 00:46:38.668
Can you imagine someone talking to him like, man, your old Justice League movie sucked. He's like, I know that first scene. I'm so sorry about that.
Kyle
00:46:38.724 - 00:46:40.140
That was supposed to be funny.
Seth
00:46:40.220 - 00:46:45.484
Can you believe that Joss Whedon used to be considered the OG Hollywood male feminist?
Kyle
00:46:45.612 - 00:46:46.140
No.
Seth
00:46:46.260 - 00:47:08.510
Like, there's a famous interview. I think it was after.
Or like, during the press tour for Age of Ultron, where a reporter asks him, why do you keep writing these complex, strong female characters? And he goes, because, assholes. Like, you keep asking me that question.
Yeah, like that he was the standard for a point in time of like, being a good man.
Drew
00:47:08.810 - 00:47:11.602
How did he. When did his villain arc Stark?
Seth
00:47:11.666 - 00:47:18.578
Like, apparently it was all a cover. Apparently it was. He's always been a piece of shit. He just was like, usually is cover it up.
Kyle
00:47:18.634 - 00:47:24.182
I hate to say it with these Hollywood folk, man. They always. Yeah. Will Smith punched Chris Rock. Joss is a dick.
Seth
00:47:24.246 - 00:47:49.170
Yeah. Like the fact that he added that shot of Flash falling over and putting his head on Gal Gadot's tits and then standing up.
And that scene where Jason Momoa's just like, you're so hot. What the lasso of truth is around me. The fact that he added those things and just tried to make every character dumber.
Yeah, just like, what the were you thinking?
Kyle
00:47:49.250 - 00:48:05.650
And I, I hate that. That thing you just said about that Flash scene too, because one thing I. I actually, I feel like.
And we can cover this more in the next one, but there are two very consistent characters. Well, no, the most consistent character that it's at least. Is at least likable in every entry is Wonder Woman.
Seth
00:48:05.690 - 00:48:05.938
Yeah.
Drew
00:48:05.954 - 00:48:06.514
Oh, absolutely.
Kyle
00:48:06.562 - 00:48:13.852
And I hated that scene because I was like, for once I felt like she's independently feminist. Like there's no one propping her up.
Seth
00:48:13.876 - 00:48:14.300
Yep.
Kyle
00:48:14.380 - 00:48:40.284
She is this 5,000 year old entity and she is kicking ass and everywhere she goes and it's just like, dude, you took away that one scene. Just ruined this. This thing with her. Well, I'm like, oh, like, no, I wanted my girls to see it.
My girls are probably a little young to see these, but I'm like, I'm like, I want my girls to see. Because gals really kicking ass. Yeah, I want. I want them to see it because I think they would love it and be inspired by it.
But then that thing, I'm just like, why would you. Why did he. It's just an example of how Josh just had to water this down so bad.
Seth
00:48:40.372 - 00:48:41.548
How old are your girls?
Kyle
00:48:41.644 - 00:48:42.844
10 and 6.
Seth
00:48:43.012 - 00:48:46.764
The 10 year old would definitely have a great time with the Wonder Woman movie.
Kyle
00:48:46.812 - 00:48:47.180
Yeah.
Seth
00:48:47.260 - 00:48:50.204
Forget that 84 exists. Just watch the first one.
Drew
00:48:50.292 - 00:48:54.524
Yeah, she would love it. I mean, yeah, she shines in that movie.
Kyle
00:48:54.572 - 00:48:56.284
She's so consistently good.
Seth
00:48:56.452 - 00:49:04.332
Just being Captain America, the first avenger. Done in a different World war with a different Steve or with a different Chris playing a different Steve.
Drew
00:49:04.396 - 00:49:05.788
There's a lot of parallels.
Kyle
00:49:05.884 - 00:49:06.348
Yeah.
Seth
00:49:06.444 - 00:49:08.560
Other than that, it would have been a good movie.
Drew
00:49:08.620 - 00:49:13.656
Wars 1.0 episodes. Captain America versus Wonder Woman.
Seth
00:49:13.728 - 00:49:14.072
Yeah.
Kyle
00:49:14.136 - 00:49:47.324
Yeah. This is.
We Kind of alluded to this a little bit, but one of the things that really got lost in translation when went from Zack Snyder to Joss is that Cyborg was going to be the heart of this movie. Oh, yeah, they wanted to be. And it was Joss who made it more towards Superman.
But what's funny is that even in that change, it still doesn't feel like Superman's that pro prominent. He's barely in the movie, but he wanted. But Joss wanted Superman to be the center.
The Cyborg storyline, I couldn't believe how baffled I was by it in the next one. I was just like, how did we. That is like, how did we miss all this?
Drew
00:49:47.492 - 00:49:52.316
Cyborg needs his own movie and put it right before the Justice League and set up the Justice League.
Kyle
00:49:52.388 - 00:49:53.452
Fisher is fantastic.
Drew
00:49:53.516 - 00:49:54.480
Oh, my God.
Seth
00:49:54.980 - 00:50:34.550
Yeah, it just. Again, it's one of those things, like, for whatever reason. And maybe it was just that Warner Brothers was like, we have to hit this runtime.
You cannot go over this runtime. And so everything was literally, just get to the next plot point. Get to the next plot point.
You can really tell during the first Wonder Woman scene where she's at the museum. Yeah, you could tell. And I'll compare it even more in the next episode.
But you watch this version, and it literally is just, she's up here and now she's inside, and now she's saving the day. Boom, the scene's over. They took a five minute scene and cut it down to a minute and a half for no reason.
Drew
00:50:34.670 - 00:50:43.510
And then by doing that. Because I noticed this when I was watching the dude. By doing that, they made that scene completely useless. Other than, like, kind of.
Because I think it was like the opening scene. Like, I think it was like the start.
Seth
00:50:43.550 - 00:50:47.510
I mean, it was close. It was her. It was her first introduction in the movie. Yeah.
Drew
00:50:47.590 - 00:50:52.230
Aside from just reminding us that Wonder Woman existed, it did very little after that.
Seth
00:50:52.270 - 00:50:57.614
Yeah. Like, legitimately, like, it took all of the emotion and all of the stakes out of the movie.
Drew
00:50:57.742 - 00:51:14.830
As much as I liked Cyborg's character, I will choose to be petty. In one part, I hated how they included his trademark phrase, booyah. It was so bland. It was so not booyah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So did Cat.
It's like, either do it the way you're supposed to do it.
Seth
00:51:14.870 - 00:51:15.214
Yeah.
Drew
00:51:15.262 - 00:51:16.366
Or don't do it.
Seth
00:51:16.518 - 00:51:19.870
Well, like, so I. I noticed this too, weirdly.
Drew
00:51:19.950 - 00:51:20.414
I'm sorry.
Kyle
00:51:20.462 - 00:51:20.734
Yeah.
Seth
00:51:20.782 - 00:51:45.264
Well, weirdly, some of the same takes are in both movies. Most specifically the shot of him catching Aquaman and Aquaman going, my man. And then he launches him in this one.
Somehow the way the tone of the movie is, even though his delivery is exactly the same, it feels ten times more cartoonish when he's just like, my man. And then he throws him and. Wow.
Drew
00:51:45.392 - 00:51:50.258
Well, I think it's because in this movie, you have less other stuff of them.
Seth
00:51:50.314 - 00:51:50.690
Yeah.
Drew
00:51:50.770 - 00:51:55.314
So, like, you haven't built the kind of relationship with the characters yet where you're like, no, that. That's Aquaman.
Seth
00:51:55.362 - 00:51:57.550
Yeah. So, yeah, it just.
Drew
00:51:57.850 - 00:52:05.810
That was my one. That was my one critique of Booyah. And I'm cool with. I'm cool. I'm okay dismissing that. That's one of those where I'm like, whatever.
Kyle
00:52:05.890 - 00:52:33.306
Yeah. So you already alluded to this, but I was going to skip it. But then I realized there's a lot more to the lawsuit thing. Oh, yeah.
Some of the things that he also did, aside from being gross abuse, these are all just things that were documented. He was. Whedon was gross, abusive, unprofessional, and completely unacceptable on set. They also lightened the color of Ray skin.
That was a big point of contention. They. Jaws. It was Joss's command to say, I want him to be basically less black.
Drew
00:52:33.458 - 00:52:34.058
Wow.
Kyle
00:52:34.154 - 00:52:34.666
Yeah.
Drew
00:52:34.778 - 00:52:37.882
Who wakes up in the morning and says, this is a good idea for my career?
Seth
00:52:37.946 - 00:52:38.858
Joss Whedon.
Kyle
00:52:38.954 - 00:52:42.058
And if that was a problem, then why did you hire him?
Seth
00:52:42.114 - 00:52:42.954
Yeah. Well, he didn't.
Kyle
00:52:43.002 - 00:52:43.786
Right. Yeah, true.
Seth
00:52:43.818 - 00:52:44.530
He didn't hire him.
Kyle
00:52:44.560 - 00:53:03.410
So then. Yeah, I just. Unbelievable. And then apparently, and I don't. I couldn't find a lot of corroboration, although this was on screen. Rant that.
I found this. Again, I couldn't find a good commentary for this, but not that they would put this on the commentary anyway.
Oh, by the way, this racist piece of shit. Hi, I'm Joss Whedon. I'm doing this commentary. I'm a racist Shit.
Drew
00:53:03.910 - 00:53:05.214
It's in the cyborg gut.
Kyle
00:53:05.262 - 00:53:31.610
Yeah, it's in the cyborg. But apparently they. There was contentious meetings about all this, about the lawsuit in. John Berg was defending Whedon in any possible way.
I'm having to read this because it's very detailed. Despite the unrest of the crew. And Fisher then started a brawl with a Warner Brothers new chair executive, Walter Hermada.
And that's what's actually the cause of Fisher's solo cyborg film being indefinitely delayed. So even before all the.
Drew
00:53:31.730 - 00:53:33.434
Did you hit the brawl?
Kyle
00:53:33.482 - 00:53:37.802
It says that. That Fisher started a brawl with Walter Hamada.
Seth
00:53:37.866 - 00:53:41.274
Okay, interesting. I would be very Curious to know if that's actually.
Kyle
00:53:41.362 - 00:53:43.242
I know I couldn't corroborate it anywhere.
Drew
00:53:43.306 - 00:53:45.118
Yeah, honestly, like, I'd like to see Foot.
Kyle
00:53:45.234 - 00:53:50.022
I'd like to see him especially if he's dressed as Cyborg. Yeah, that would be awesome.
Drew
00:53:50.086 - 00:53:51.910
That's the opening scene of the movie.
Seth
00:53:52.070 - 00:54:28.178
Because at this point, Hamada is considered to be the downfall, the reason why everything fell apart. Because he's the one who was really trying to fight Zack Snyder on everything that happened in bvs.
He's the one who hired the trailer editing company to re edit and reshoot Suicide Squad to give it more of a Guardians of the Galaxy sexy kind of tone. Yeah, he's the one who, who nitpicked everything that happened after this version of Justice League. Like he.
Yeah, everyone basically says he is the reason why everything fell apart.
Kyle
00:54:28.274 - 00:54:42.354
Yeah, it's just funny to me because I tend to think of this type of drama to exist with high creative movies because executives are so freaked out by like, you know, like a Von Trier or a Refn or one of those. But it's even existing in what I would call the pop realm. Yeah.
Seth
00:54:42.402 - 00:55:03.156
Oh yeah.
Because they're trying to make billions of dollars and if they don't like how you're going about it, then they're gonna be like, no, no, no, you gotta. I mean, that's why Kevin Feige fired Edgar Wright. He fired Edgar Wright from Ant man because he was doing the Edgar Wright thing.
And for whatever reason, they didn't want Edgar Wright to do the thing that Edgar Wright does best.
Kyle
00:55:03.228 - 00:55:03.764
Yeah.
Seth
00:55:03.892 - 00:55:17.162
So it's, it's things like that. They, they wanted so much control, even though they started down a path that they ultimately didn't like.
Instead of just like, let's play it out, let's lightly course correct. They were like, no, we're just going to 180 it right now.
Drew
00:55:17.346 - 00:55:31.594
It sounds like. I mean, it sounds like D.C. and Warner Brothers had the same issues as Snyder.
They hired a director with a particular style because they wanted to make Marvel esque movies. But in doing so they were like, let's pick the least Marvel esque person.
Seth
00:55:31.682 - 00:55:36.906
Literally. I mean, he had done Watchmen, done 300. They knew his vibe for DC movies.
Drew
00:55:37.018 - 00:55:41.936
Then when they needed a new director, they, they tried to really. Course correct.
Seth
00:55:41.968 - 00:55:42.176
Yeah.
Drew
00:55:42.208 - 00:55:53.680
And they got Josh Whedon, who could not have been further from what. So it, I mean, flaws aside, thinking like Whedon, it makes sense that he looked at Snyder's film and was like, this is trash.
Seth
00:55:53.760 - 00:55:54.160
Yeah.
Drew
00:55:54.240 - 00:56:10.432
Because that's like an apple looking at an orange and being like, I don't get the appeal of you. You know, like, it makes sense.
But my problem is, and it goes back to all the issues that the actor play was cyborg and all the things going on into like someone, someone higher up than the directors should have been noticing this stuff.
Kyle
00:56:10.496 - 00:56:10.832
Yeah.
Drew
00:56:10.896 - 00:56:15.904
And also it should have probably never gotten out as much as it did to like. Well, it should have been fixed correctly.
Kyle
00:56:15.952 - 00:56:18.592
It's amazing that Nolan has had success with Warner Brothers.
Seth
00:56:18.656 - 00:56:24.272
Like, oh no, they. They completely his tenant release and so that's why he's now working with Universal.
Kyle
00:56:24.336 - 00:56:25.060
Interesting.
Seth
00:56:26.280 - 00:56:31.078
He. He wouldn't even let anyone at Warner Brothers read the Odyssey script.
Kyle
00:56:31.224 - 00:56:32.362
Wow. Thank God.
Seth
00:56:32.426 - 00:56:35.066
He just, he was like, nope, I'm not even gonna go to them.
Drew
00:56:35.218 - 00:56:42.746
I feel like just with like what little I hear from like podcasts and actors, like, it doesn't sound like Warner Brothers is a great company to work.
Seth
00:56:42.818 - 00:57:06.718
Not anymore. They've really fucked over a lot of people and it mostly started with, with Batman versus Superman.
Like that's really when Warner Brothers as a company started getting less respect in, in the industry. I'm a little shocked.
And granted it might just be because they, they have the rights to it, but I'm a little shocked that like, like Barbie was made there because of how gross they have been to women over the last several years.
Kyle
00:57:06.774 - 00:57:07.982
Yeah. Interesting.
Seth
00:57:08.046 - 00:57:08.670
Yeah.
Kyle
00:57:08.830 - 00:57:10.958
Shall we seek justice?
Seth
00:57:11.054 - 00:57:11.822
Let's do it.
Kyle
00:57:11.926 - 00:57:13.902
Shall we assemble and attack the war card?
Seth
00:57:13.966 - 00:57:15.870
Shall we fuck Joss Whedon in the ass?
Kyle
00:57:15.910 - 00:57:16.174
Yes.
Drew
00:57:16.222 - 00:57:19.086
Nope. Yes to all though. Except for the last one.
Kyle
00:57:19.158 - 00:57:19.550
Yes.
Drew
00:57:19.630 - 00:57:20.370
Ready?
Kyle
00:57:21.270 - 00:57:22.330
Let's war.
Seth
00:57:22.630 - 00:57:23.374
Let's go.
Kyle
00:57:23.462 - 00:57:31.340
Also reminder positive. Affirmative. Yes. We love it. Snyder barely know her. And then super bad if it's bad, if we don't like if we don't dig it.
Seth
00:57:31.380 - 00:57:32.040
All right.
Kyle
00:57:32.340 - 00:57:43.852
By the way, this has been hilarious to edit. Hearing us say Snyder barely know where top bill Cass, Ben Affleck, Gal Gadot, Jason Momoa are top pay banded folks here.
Seth
00:57:44.036 - 00:57:48.300
I mean, no, that, that makes sense because Henry Cavill barely has any screen time in this one.
Drew
00:57:48.340 - 00:57:48.812
He's dead.
Seth
00:57:48.876 - 00:57:52.444
Jason Momoa was definitely one of the more famous ones in the movie and.
Kyle
00:57:52.452 - 00:57:56.300
They had to reduce his part of the pay for this fate part of the face. He only gets paid for a full face.
Seth
00:57:56.340 - 00:57:56.754
Yeah.
Kyle
00:57:56.852 - 00:57:57.530
Yeah.
Seth
00:57:57.870 - 00:58:19.330
Unfortunately, as much as I love every single one of these people, I am going to have to go super bad because you could tell how fucking over it they were by the time they did anything that Joss wanted them to do.
Like I said, earlier, it was literally like they all sat down and were like, all right, we're contractually obligated to say these lines, but, yeah, any emotion. So, yeah, super bad.
Drew
00:58:20.190 - 00:58:34.500
I'm. I'm gonna go the opposite just because I feel like they did the best what they had. And with the stuff that actually they.
The good stuff that they kept, I felt like they were good. I wasn't distracted by their performance. Although, like, I do kind of agree with what you're saying now that we're talking about it.
Seth
00:58:34.540 - 00:58:34.804
Yeah.
Drew
00:58:34.852 - 00:58:43.000
But I'm basing this off of when I watched it, was I bothered by their performance? And the answer is no. So Snyder, barely nowhere Snyder.
Kyle
00:58:43.580 - 00:58:47.252
I also went super bad. And here's the thing. I don't blame the cast.
Seth
00:58:47.316 - 00:58:48.200
I don't either.
Kyle
00:58:48.830 - 00:59:12.230
But for me, I can't. I can't call this what is what. There's a saying for it. I don't know. But I can't sit here and call this good acting. It's not. And I.
Again, it's not their fault. And we'll. We'll see later that there were better takes. But I just. This is to me. And you guys know I'm a curmudgeon on this shit.
I can't let this type of shit pass. When we got amazing artisans like Eggers out. Eggers is out here getting ignored by the Oscars.
Seth
00:59:12.310 - 00:59:12.662
Yeah.
Kyle
00:59:12.726 - 00:59:29.304
We got all these amazing performances and all these lower budget movies and. And then we have this big Hollywood shit that just gets shoveled in our faces and I can't let it slide.
And I know each of these actors are gifted and have shown us more, and not just in other movies, but in other parts of this series.
Seth
00:59:29.392 - 00:59:29.704
Yeah.
Kyle
00:59:29.752 - 00:59:31.608
But I can't let this slide. This is super bad.
Seth
00:59:31.664 - 00:59:32.216
Nope.
Kyle
00:59:32.328 - 00:59:34.540
So, yeah.
Seth
00:59:35.520 - 00:59:36.696
Booyah.
Kyle
00:59:36.888 - 00:59:45.636
Booyah again. There's not a memorable line or besides that. I just, like. There were no moments, no lines. I can't. Yeah, I bought the bank.
Drew
00:59:45.708 - 00:59:46.360
That's.
Seth
00:59:47.100 - 00:59:54.868
Yeah, it's so weird because that's. That was Snyder's moment. And it still felt so cheap in this version. Like, what the fuck?
Kyle
00:59:54.964 - 01:00:04.820
Continuity matters. Yeah, continuity matters. Like, and that's the same with the jokes. Like, I hated the flashes jokes in this one.
And then, like, in the next one, they were actually kind of refreshing because they were like, in context.
Drew
01:00:04.900 - 01:00:10.570
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was a little bit better, actually. I don't. I don't like this take of the Flash in general. General.
Seth
01:00:10.690 - 01:00:11.306
That's fair.
Kyle
01:00:11.378 - 01:00:12.362
I agree with you, actually.
Seth
01:00:12.466 - 01:00:23.418
I. I appreciate what Snyder was trying to do. With making him, like, ADHD and. And like, you know, a more teen version of the Flash. But yeah, not.
Not my favorite.
Kyle
01:00:23.514 - 01:00:24.314
Yeah, I agree.
Seth
01:00:24.402 - 01:00:27.738
Sucks that Ezra Miller just became such a shitty human being.
Kyle
01:00:27.794 - 01:00:29.290
I know, I know.
Seth
01:00:29.330 - 01:00:31.194
He was so good in Perks of being a Wallflower.
Kyle
01:00:31.242 - 01:00:33.990
He's probably knocking back shots with Joss Whedon right now.
Drew
01:00:34.530 - 01:00:35.722
Working on their next big.
Kyle
01:00:35.746 - 01:00:36.542
Yeah, yeah.
Seth
01:00:36.606 - 01:00:37.870
Probably not after rehab.
Kyle
01:00:37.950 - 01:00:41.102
Yeah. Working on some indie film about lightning. Black people's skin.
Seth
01:00:41.166 - 01:00:41.454
Yeah.
Kyle
01:00:41.502 - 01:00:42.210
God.
Drew
01:00:43.430 - 01:00:45.582
In which Ezra Miller plays the black person.
Kyle
01:00:45.686 - 01:00:51.010
Yes. Actually, we got to darken your skin. That's against our whole mission.
Seth
01:00:51.990 - 01:00:53.570
Stay out of the sun, kid.
Kyle
01:00:55.270 - 01:01:17.160
All right, this is crazy to list this supporting cast because it starts with Henry Cavill. Amy Adams. G. No, not Gal. Sorry. Scratching it out. Ezra Miller, Jason Momoa, Ray Fisher, Jeremy Irons. Man, this goes down Diane Lane.
This is the one that makes me laugh the most. J.K. simmons with barely any screen time. Is Gordon here? Amber heard. Oh, go get a lawsuit going.
Seth
01:01:17.200 - 01:01:18.984
I love that picture. I texted you guys.
Kyle
01:01:19.112 - 01:01:21.740
Yes, I know. On all the beds.
Seth
01:01:22.640 - 01:01:28.100
We should have had her on this so she could on the podcast like on John.
Drew
01:01:28.400 - 01:01:29.544
Yeah, next time.
Kyle
01:01:29.632 - 01:01:32.744
Yeah, as long as she doesn't bring her Mason jar of cocaine.
Drew
01:01:32.792 - 01:01:33.160
Yeah.
Kyle
01:01:33.240 - 01:01:35.832
That her and Johnny Depp used to dip into and then sue each other.
Drew
01:01:35.856 - 01:01:39.928
After cocaine at home. Leave all the other things at home too.
Seth
01:01:39.984 - 01:01:40.456
Yeah.
Kyle
01:01:40.568 - 01:01:59.770
And I have to go deep on this one because I thought this is hilarious. Maybe you two picked up on it, but Joe Morton as Silas Stone.
He is the king of unleashing cyborgs on the world because he was also the science, the lead scientist in T2. He had the cyborg arm. He's the one that started the cyber cyborg research for Skynet.
Seth
01:01:59.850 - 01:02:00.426
Oh, my God.
Drew
01:02:00.458 - 01:02:05.802
He's also been in a few other superhero related things where he's like the scientist that screwed up and something.
Kyle
01:02:05.906 - 01:02:10.538
Yeah. If we need to unleash a cyborg or a cyborg apocalypse in a movie, you call him.
Drew
01:02:10.594 - 01:02:11.066
He's the guy.
Kyle
01:02:11.098 - 01:02:13.786
Yeah, he's the guy. That's hilarious. Anyway, what do we think?
Seth
01:02:13.858 - 01:02:26.556
Yeah, I'm. I'm going to have to go super bad. Once again, not their fault. But. But literally every single character just. Just became insanely neutered.
And I feel like every. I was texting him about this. Have you seen BoJack Horseman?
Kyle
01:02:26.588 - 01:02:26.940
Yes.
Seth
01:02:27.020 - 01:02:49.372
You know the season where he's making Secretariat and they fire the original director and bring in the catfish dude? And he's just like, yeah, we're not making Finith and Kane like we're not making a great movie here. And he's just, just shitting everything.
Like, that's what it felt like. This one was where everyone watched this fucking idiot come in and they were just like, okay, I guess I'll say.
Drew
01:02:49.396 - 01:02:50.892
The words, I'm getting paid either way.
Seth
01:02:50.916 - 01:03:01.716
So no one tried with anything that Joss Whedon wrote. Unfortunately, as much as I love every single one of these people, I am just gonna have to give it a super bad. It's terrible.
Kyle
01:03:01.828 - 01:03:02.516
Super bad.
Drew
01:03:02.588 - 01:03:08.148
You know, I'm, I'm gonna, I, I, I, I, I stuck. Stuck to my guns on the first one, but.
Kyle
01:03:08.204 - 01:03:08.484
Stuck.
Drew
01:03:08.532 - 01:03:24.254
But, but between what we're been talking about. I'll change my answer. I'll, I'll go super bad. You're right. Because when we look at.
It's hard to, for me, it's hard to separate the two movies, like the similar scenes and stuff like that. But when you look at this movie, you're right. They, I mean, no one tried.
Kyle
01:03:24.302 - 01:03:24.734
Yeah.
Drew
01:03:24.782 - 01:03:25.410
Yeah.
Seth
01:03:26.390 - 01:03:27.694
No one cared.
Kyle
01:03:27.822 - 01:03:28.254
Yep.
Drew
01:03:28.302 - 01:03:29.390
I just clocked in.
Seth
01:03:29.430 - 01:03:29.918
Yeah.
Kyle
01:03:30.014 - 01:03:38.410
I go super bad for the same reason as my first one. But the one that sticks out to me the most is like, did anyone else think that J.K. simmons, like, showed up to the wrong set?
Drew
01:03:39.350 - 01:03:42.306
He's put, he plays Commissioner Gordon.
Seth
01:03:42.398 - 01:03:47.466
He's Joss Whedon. Didn't reshoot anything with him. The mustache stuff was from.
Kyle
01:03:47.538 - 01:03:47.914
Yeah.
Seth
01:03:47.962 - 01:03:48.618
Snyder cut.
Kyle
01:03:48.674 - 01:03:57.418
It kind of feels like he was a last minute ad. He kind of showed up late. The mustache isn't great. I just felt like he didn't want to be there. He was the least Gordon Gordon I've ever seen, dude.
Seth
01:03:57.514 - 01:03:59.818
That's the funny thing is he was so into it.
Kyle
01:03:59.874 - 01:04:00.234
Really.
Seth
01:04:00.322 - 01:04:18.882
He literally was just like, fuck it. I'm gonna get jacked for this. Really lost like 40 pounds. He worked out like crazy, Gordon. I mean, well, he, he, he wanted to in general.
And this just gave him a reason to. Yeah, but no, like, it's, it's funny you say that because literally he was probably. And again, he didn't, he wasn't involved in any of the reshoots.
Kyle
01:04:18.946 - 01:04:19.186
Yeah.
Seth
01:04:19.218 - 01:04:29.090
So for him, he was just like, now it. I'm coming. Because. Yeah, in his mind, he had the Ben Affleck solo movie coming right after. That was supposed to be his pipeline was right into that.
Drew
01:04:29.130 - 01:04:29.634
Yeah.
Seth
01:04:29.762 - 01:04:32.226
So he was like, no, I'm gonna get ready for this.
Kyle
01:04:32.298 - 01:04:36.722
I just didn't get anything from him here. And he's one of my favorite actors. Oh, yeah. He is incredible.
Seth
01:04:36.786 - 01:04:39.310
Again, you're not Supposed to. Because Joss Whedon's a.
Kyle
01:04:39.700 - 01:04:40.300
He.
Drew
01:04:40.420 - 01:04:45.996
He is a. He is a big actor. He's. That Commissioner Gordon is also a pretty significant Batman character.
Kyle
01:04:46.028 - 01:04:46.652
Yeah, you're right.
Drew
01:04:46.676 - 01:04:49.560
In. In both of these movies, he's very.
Kyle
01:04:49.940 - 01:04:50.460
Yeah.
Seth
01:04:50.540 - 01:04:52.924
I mean, he was in it as much as he needed to be.
Drew
01:04:53.012 - 01:04:59.356
He was part of my least. One of my least favorite scenes of both movies, which is when they all run off, but Barry Allen's still running his mouth.
Seth
01:04:59.388 - 01:04:59.596
Yeah.
Kyle
01:04:59.628 - 01:04:59.932
Yeah.
Drew
01:04:59.996 - 01:05:01.080
I'm just like, just.
Kyle
01:05:01.860 - 01:05:04.506
And of course, Gary Oldman's kind of ruined it for that role.
Seth
01:05:04.588 - 01:05:07.422
I mean, so did Jeffrey Wright, though. Like, Jeffrey Wright killed it.
Kyle
01:05:07.446 - 01:05:07.678
Yeah.
Seth
01:05:07.694 - 01:05:08.846
Commissioner Gordon, but.
Kyle
01:05:08.918 - 01:05:10.254
Oh, he did. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Drew
01:05:10.302 - 01:05:15.730
Or there. If you want to really dip into Lord. The TV show Gotham in that version.
Seth
01:05:16.310 - 01:05:17.646
I still haven't seen that one, actually.
Kyle
01:05:17.718 - 01:05:18.190
He's.
Seth
01:05:18.270 - 01:05:18.846
He's like.
Kyle
01:05:18.918 - 01:05:19.438
And the.
Drew
01:05:19.494 - 01:05:25.246
He's so badass. Yeah, he's like. He's like, basically Batman, but for the TV show Goth.
Seth
01:05:25.278 - 01:05:25.694
Hell, yeah.
Kyle
01:05:25.742 - 01:05:28.878
I also love him in the Animated Series. I love what they do with him there, too.
Drew
01:05:28.934 - 01:05:31.562
Oh, he's got a hearty beer or hardy mustache in there.
Seth
01:05:31.586 - 01:05:31.786
Yeah.
Kyle
01:05:31.818 - 01:05:38.522
So basically, you guys just completely reversed my statement because basically, J.K. simmons is the only bad Commissioner Gordon there's ever been.
Seth
01:05:38.706 - 01:05:42.186
But even then, can you really tell off the two scenes he was in?
Kyle
01:05:42.258 - 01:05:42.890
Yeah, I just.
Drew
01:05:42.930 - 01:05:44.458
You know, such a minor character in this.
Kyle
01:05:44.514 - 01:05:52.954
He was. I just didn't. And maybe it's because you meet him later. I'm just like, I.
By that time, I probably was checked out, but I just didn't get the aura that I usually get from a Simmons performance.
Seth
01:05:53.042 - 01:06:18.684
But, yeah, and again, like I said, he. He was expecting the pipeline of being way more involved.
Because, remember, the Batman took a lot from Affleck's the Batman script, and then Reeves changed it to. To hit his version where it was going to be Batman v. Deathstroke and became Batman v. Riddler. Oh, my God. It would have been incredible.
But so, yeah, he. He had a different attitude going into it than I think anyone else kind of did.
Drew
01:06:18.772 - 01:06:22.530
Have we ever had a significant Commissioner Gordon in a Batman movie?
Kyle
01:06:22.660 - 01:06:24.966
Oh, I would say Gary Oldman, I think. Old man.
Drew
01:06:25.038 - 01:06:27.030
Which one was he from the Dark Knight trilogy?
Kyle
01:06:27.110 - 01:06:30.450
But he was very involved. Like, he thinks. Think about how especially.
Drew
01:06:32.670 - 01:06:34.598
Okay, yeah, I had a moment before getting.
Kyle
01:06:34.654 - 01:06:46.310
But you're right, because he gets pulled in because usually in the movies, he acts. He's not. He doesn't get pulled in. In the movies. Into. But he gets.
Because of his daughter and all the stuff he gets pulled in at the end of Dark Knight. And he plays an intricate. And he does it great.
Seth
01:06:46.350 - 01:06:54.604
And I thought he. I thought again. Jeffrey Wright did a great job in the Batman. Like, he made. Made that character something important.
And it'll be interesting to see what he looks like in. In the Batman 2.
Kyle
01:06:54.692 - 01:06:55.228
Yeah.
Seth
01:06:55.324 - 01:06:55.884
Yeah.
Kyle
01:06:56.012 - 01:06:58.960
It's zero to two. Things are going just fine.
Seth
01:07:00.260 - 01:07:01.340
I approve of that one.
Kyle
01:07:01.380 - 01:07:01.932
That's a good one.
Drew
01:07:01.956 - 01:07:02.316
I know.
Kyle
01:07:02.388 - 01:07:10.876
I was editing the last one. I was like, God, I gotta get back on my game with the transitions. It's not always easy. This is hard work over here. I dare you to sit in this seat.
You too.
Drew
01:07:11.028 - 01:07:13.388
Let's start a podcast. Anyone can do it. Seriously.
Kyle
01:07:13.484 - 01:07:15.240
That's what they keep telling us in the comments.
Drew
01:07:16.180 - 01:07:17.894
Literally every. Okay.
Kyle
01:07:17.942 - 01:07:21.526
Anyone with a mic. Yes, anyone. Literally. You can do this too.
Drew
01:07:21.598 - 01:07:25.302
That's literally the point of podcasting. Normal people talking about things they care about.
Kyle
01:07:25.326 - 01:07:26.102
Yeah, exactly.
Drew
01:07:26.166 - 01:07:27.654
Everyone can either this or go back.
Kyle
01:07:27.662 - 01:07:35.398
To Roger Ebert's corpse, you sucker. Rest in peace. Yeah. Although he hated a lot of movies that I love.
Seth
01:07:35.454 - 01:07:36.054
Yeah.
Drew
01:07:36.182 - 01:07:38.102
The rest in unrest.
Kyle
01:07:38.166 - 01:07:39.862
Rest in mediocre taste.
Seth
01:07:39.926 - 01:07:41.050
Ref. In peace.
Kyle
01:07:42.350 - 01:07:48.438
Yeah. You didn't like drive writing, Chris. How do you say it? Terrio.
Seth
01:07:48.534 - 01:07:50.406
Yeah. Yeah. One of those.
Kyle
01:07:50.478 - 01:07:51.926
Joss Whedon.
Seth
01:07:52.118 - 01:08:25.198
Here's the thing. There's only 45 minutes of. Of Torio Terrio. Of. Of Chris's work. Like, I'ma set him aside for this. This was not his movie. This was Joss Whedon's.
And it sucked. Every single joke just ruined everything that was in there. Every.
It's like, again, used to when he would write the sexist types jokes he would write, it was always put in a negative place. The jokes were always coming from assholes who would get put in their place.
Kyle
01:08:25.254 - 01:08:25.662
Yeah.
Seth
01:08:25.726 - 01:08:32.158
By the strong female characters he wrote. This time it literally was just to put sexist, shitty jokes in there.
Kyle
01:08:32.214 - 01:08:32.494
Yeah.
Seth
01:08:32.542 - 01:08:44.466
Like, fuck you, Joss Whedon. This is super bad to the max.
I hate even, like, bringing in the name of such a good movie to talk about how bad Joss Whedon's writing is in this movie. You, Joss Wheaton.
Kyle
01:08:44.498 - 01:08:44.754
Yeah.
Drew
01:08:44.802 - 01:08:47.762
Well, actually, I think, oh, my God.
Seth
01:08:47.826 - 01:08:49.554
He should have won an Oscar for this movie.
Kyle
01:08:49.602 - 01:08:56.290
You do that, though. I noticed that sometimes when he goes real hard in. You go real. You kind of just subtly go the opposite. You kind of just go above.
Drew
01:08:56.370 - 01:09:00.610
It's one of. I. I find great joy in having the opposite opinion, Seth.
Kyle
01:09:00.690 - 01:09:01.314
I love that.
Drew
01:09:01.402 - 01:09:19.404
And if. If there was any redeemable thing that I would totally. I would totally jump. Unfortunately. I mean, I just gotta be. I mean, this felt bad.
This felt like a high school class where you realized, oh my gosh, I have to have a Justice League movie tomorrow. Let me start writing script right now and turn it in in the next hour.
Seth
01:09:19.492 - 01:09:21.640
Yeah, he's like, we're shooting today.
Drew
01:09:21.940 - 01:09:40.094
Yeah. It just, it felt like he cut apart what was already a good script, but. And then like gave us like the worst cuts, like, of it.
Like, it's like you could have. There's. We'll talk about this next week.
But there were things that were not that big of scenes that they could have put in, just little ones that would have made this movie make a little bit more sense.
Kyle
01:09:40.142 - 01:09:40.558
Yeah.
Seth
01:09:40.654 - 01:09:48.670
His writing in this was so bad that anything good that they kept from Snyder just got worse because it was surrounded by this shit.
Kyle
01:09:48.750 - 01:09:49.182
Yep.
Drew
01:09:49.246 - 01:09:51.870
So if it's not clear, I also say super bad.
Kyle
01:09:51.990 - 01:10:26.044
Yeah. I go super bad. I mean, you have an exhausted cast redelivering shitty lines that were rewritten. It's. I can't go much further than that.
I mean, it's just. It's just bad. And like you said, it's amazing how some of the stuff is a little more elevated. I'm not saying that the second one's perfect or when I.
The Snyder cuts perfect, but stuff is definitely elevated.
And some of the cuts that are shared between them, it's because they're sandwiched in between better filmmaking, better visuals, better everything, better writing and just complete malpractice on this writing. And it's really hard to not only hear shitty lines being delivered by actors who have stopped caring. Yeah.
Drew
01:10:26.092 - 01:10:35.924
It's mind blowing. It's.
Whenever you get something like that this bad is like the script is mind blowing that this is like a successful person in this field at such a high up level.
Seth
01:10:36.012 - 01:10:36.372
Yeah.
Drew
01:10:36.436 - 01:10:38.564
And it's just total horse trash who's.
Seth
01:10:38.612 - 01:10:40.676
Had a 25 year career.
Drew
01:10:40.788 - 01:10:47.140
Meanwhile, you just know there's someone like on the streets of LA right now, homeless, like with an awesome script they're trying to pitch.
Kyle
01:10:47.220 - 01:10:47.604
Yeah.
Drew
01:10:47.652 - 01:10:53.012
And it'd be like so much better and they'll never have a shot. But this is what made it to the big screen.
Seth
01:10:53.076 - 01:10:53.364
Yeah.
Kyle
01:10:53.412 - 01:10:56.800
Yeah. This makes. Sometimes I think about dying. Like, just.
Seth
01:10:57.980 - 01:11:01.882
I would rather watch that movie four times than watch this one.
Kyle
01:11:01.986 - 01:11:02.362
This was.
Drew
01:11:02.386 - 01:11:05.242
No, I mean, if only it was up to Wicked Prayer standards.
Seth
01:11:05.306 - 01:11:09.818
It is. Yeah. I would. I would rather watch Shitty of Angels and Wicked Prayer back to back.
Kyle
01:11:09.874 - 01:11:11.130
At least we got Dennis Hopper.
Drew
01:11:11.210 - 01:11:14.266
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyle
01:11:14.378 - 01:11:14.810
Yeah.
Seth
01:11:14.890 - 01:11:17.642
Oh, she wasn't in. Oh, was. Never mind.
Kyle
01:11:17.666 - 01:11:18.554
She was in Wicked Prayer.
Seth
01:11:18.602 - 01:11:20.986
That's right. I get them confused at this point.
Drew
01:11:21.138 - 01:11:23.370
It's okay. That was like 500 movies ago.
Kyle
01:11:23.410 - 01:11:27.430
Yeah. Zero to three. Justice is being served here.
Drew
01:11:28.130 - 01:11:29.162
Justice served.
Kyle
01:11:29.226 - 01:11:35.174
And this is where I can't wait to serve justice. Directing. It says Zack Snyder, but I put Joss Whedon.
Seth
01:11:35.222 - 01:11:43.094
Hold on. We'll start. We'll start with the 45 minutes. That was Zack Snyder. I give. I give that 45 minutes. A very solid Snyder. Barely knower.
Kyle
01:11:43.142 - 01:11:43.606
Yeah.
Seth
01:11:43.718 - 01:11:51.542
The rest of it, fuck off. Super bad. Because it was not. This is not a Zack Snyder movie. Fuck you for crediting him. Yeah, fuck it.
Kyle
01:11:51.646 - 01:11:52.246
Yep.
Seth
01:11:52.358 - 01:11:52.918
Super bad.
Drew
01:11:52.974 - 01:11:57.832
I mean, super bad. His job as a dirt. He did not direct. Well, he did.
Seth
01:11:57.926 - 01:11:59.700
He didn't direct it all in there.
Drew
01:11:59.740 - 01:12:15.604
Like a wrecking ball. Like any CEO that has any new boss of a company would tell you, don't just go in there and on the old boss and change everything. And like. Like any.
You know it. Every pastor waits at least two years before they start doing big changes.
Kyle
01:12:15.732 - 01:12:16.500
Right. Right.
Drew
01:12:16.540 - 01:12:18.580
Saying like in any kind of position where you're in.
Kyle
01:12:18.620 - 01:12:19.044
Before they bring.
Seth
01:12:19.052 - 01:12:20.932
In comparison this to a mega church.
Kyle
01:12:21.076 - 01:12:23.252
Before we bring in the animal sacrifices. Yeah.
Drew
01:12:23.316 - 01:12:27.940
I was like, you know, I don't know. I'm not. I'm just saying. Super bad.
Kyle
01:12:28.320 - 01:13:15.980
Yeah. I think what was interesting about Batman versus Superman, I didn't like it, obviously, but I. I liked a lot of things in it.
I didn't give it high ratings, but anything with Batman. But there was enough there. I did give it a high score for the good lore because I was like, you know, this kind of.
This, like the whole Mad Max Batman thing, like, it kind of. I could go back and read a comic. Like, it made me a little more interesting. This completely. Like, everything he did made me never want to watch.
In fact, I didn't. I had seen Snyder's cut when it came out, but I don't remember a lot of it. Right. It made me not want to watch that one either.
I was just like, so disengaged and disinterested by. By everything. It was so flat. It was so neutered. And I also.
Even though I've criticized Snyder's over stylization on occasion, I like it, but sometimes it's too much. I was missing it here.
Seth
01:13:16.020 - 01:13:16.396
Oh, yeah.
Kyle
01:13:16.428 - 01:13:26.770
The filters are gone. The coloration's gone. He literally took. Like, why couldn't you at least just leave in. Or.
Or at least have some of that Snyder coloration influence here to maintain the.
Seth
01:13:26.810 - 01:13:28.114
Visuals, the continuity of it.
Kyle
01:13:28.122 - 01:13:28.722
Yeah, yeah.
Seth
01:13:28.786 - 01:13:33.026
Even the first Wonder Woman movie looked very similar to the Snyder movie.
Kyle
01:13:33.058 - 01:13:33.314
Yeah.
Seth
01:13:33.362 - 01:13:49.150
And. And the Suicide Squad movie, the original tone of it was supposed to fit into The Snyderverse of BVs and the Snyder cut of Justice League. And.
And that's when every Hamada started coming in and changing everything. It was like, nope, we're. We're just gonna try to be shitty Marvel.
Drew
01:13:49.250 - 01:13:54.342
Didn't they do, like, two Suicide Squad movies, but then also, like, a sequel to one of the Suicide Squad movies?
Seth
01:13:54.406 - 01:14:35.028
So there was David Ayer's Suicide Squad, which did get an extended version that they had the gall to call the Director's Cut, because it's not. It's not even close. Literally, the day before it came out, he tweeted the movie, you see tomorrow is not my movie.
And then he deleted the tweet because I'm sure someone at Warner Brothers was like, we're going to take you to court. So apparently he says he does have a mostly finished version of his movie that he would love to get the Snyder cut treatment.
That's never going to happen, because fuck you, James Gunn. But, yeah, that's. Then James Gunn came in and made the Suicide Squad so original, and it.
It made even less movie than the original Suicide Squad movie did or made less money.
Kyle
01:14:35.084 - 01:14:43.060
So, yeah, it's funny, even though I'm not a fan of these movies, I've become a big supporter of Zack Snyder, just as. At a personal level, I just want him to succeed now.
Drew
01:14:43.100 - 01:14:50.206
Yeah, I agree with that. I don't even. I don't even. We'll talk about this next week. I don't even like his directing style that much.
Seth
01:14:50.278 - 01:14:50.702
Sure.
Drew
01:14:50.806 - 01:14:51.850
But, like.
Kyle
01:14:53.670 - 01:14:55.246
I want him to win what he's doing.
Seth
01:14:55.318 - 01:15:00.830
The respect is there whether or not you. You enjoy what he's done. There's respect for style.
Drew
01:15:00.910 - 01:15:05.118
Not really my thing. Like, I don't. I don't like country music either, and I don't like nuts and desserts.
Seth
01:15:05.214 - 01:15:09.678
But you. But you respect Chris Stapleton because he's the best of it, even though you don't like it.
Kyle
01:15:09.734 - 01:15:10.110
Yeah.
Drew
01:15:10.190 - 01:15:12.448
So. So that's what I feel like him.
Kyle
01:15:12.504 - 01:15:15.056
I'm hoping Snyder's next one's a banger. I'm cheering for him.
Seth
01:15:15.128 - 01:15:20.064
I did like the director's cuts of the Rebel Moon movies, but that's a whole other can of worms.
Kyle
01:15:20.192 - 01:15:23.536
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Don't even take me down that rabbit hole.
Seth
01:15:23.728 - 01:15:25.504
It's on the list. Eventually we'll get to it.
Kyle
01:15:25.512 - 01:15:34.688
I've already been living in so much super, super. I'm gonna need a superhero reprieve after this. All right, so it's zero to four. It's going well for Mr. Whedon over here.
Seth
01:15:34.744 - 01:15:35.024
Yeah.
Drew
01:15:35.072 - 01:15:37.360
I'm sure he listens to this podcast, and it's very sad right now.
Kyle
01:15:37.400 - 01:15:42.176
He probably has time now. Yeah. He's going to be directing full house remakes.
Seth
01:15:42.288 - 01:15:47.632
If Bill Burr can like one of our reels, then I'm sure Joss Whedon pays attention to every episode.
Kyle
01:15:47.776 - 01:16:02.448
We've had a couple of celebrity endorsements recently. Mr. Bill Burr liked one of our posts. And then Bill Garrett. Or Garrett. What was his name? Sorry.
Bill Garrett, who played on the Brother and Everybody Loves Raymond. And he's in Seinfeld also.
Drew
01:16:02.584 - 01:16:03.152
Very cool.
Kyle
01:16:03.216 - 01:16:07.532
We're getting love, and you sit there and won't even share with your friends.
Drew
01:16:07.656 - 01:16:08.324
Come on.
Seth
01:16:08.412 - 01:16:13.124
Also, if either one of the two of you ever want to be on the podcast, just hit us up. We got you.
Kyle
01:16:13.212 - 01:16:37.174
Yep. Yep. I interviewed one of Bill's best friends, Steve Byrne, so he's been on the podcast. So maybe I could work through Steve.
We could do it because Bill was in a movie that Steve made, directed. Pretty cool. Zero to four, Mr. Whedon, happy birthday. What's in front of a cinematography, production design, sound, costumes, editing.
Seth
01:16:37.292 - 01:16:59.490
This is the craziest thing for me because obviously I've seen the Snyder cut significantly more times than I've seen this, but I did not realize until this second viewing of Justice League how starkly different. Like, I can physically tell when Joss shot something or reshot something, and then you go into a shot that was clearly done by Zack Snyder.
Kyle
01:16:59.570 - 01:16:59.874
Yeah.
Seth
01:16:59.922 - 01:17:17.326
It is absurd. Everything looked cheaper. Everything looked shittier. The animation was so much worse in the stuff that Joss Whedon was putting together.
All of it just horrible. So I am once again giving it a super bad. Because fuck you, Joss Whedon.
Kyle
01:17:17.438 - 01:17:17.678
Yeah.
Drew
01:17:17.694 - 01:17:25.150
I mean, that's the biggest complaint about this movie is you see that. It's like you're watching. It's just the things not mixing well.
Seth
01:17:25.190 - 01:17:25.454
Yeah.
Drew
01:17:25.502 - 01:17:36.786
You know, and I think the biggest things were the editing cut choices where he decided to reshoot. And so if he used 45 minutes of the movie, that means he had access to the rest of the movie.
Seth
01:17:36.878 - 01:17:37.546
Oh, yeah.
Drew
01:17:37.658 - 01:17:40.602
So he could have added, you know, extra 15 minutes.
Seth
01:17:40.666 - 01:17:41.178
Yeah.
Drew
01:17:41.274 - 01:17:45.738
And he could have put some scenes in there just to make it all make a little bit more sense for context.
Seth
01:17:45.834 - 01:18:01.258
The only thing that Zack Snyder shot after the fact for the Snyder Cut. Was the very last epilogue scene of the vision or the dream premonition. Yeah, yeah, the dream. And the Martian.
Martian Manhunter scene, which I can't wait.
Drew
01:18:01.274 - 01:18:05.354
To talk about how that is so weird. The Martian Manhunter. But that's next week.
Seth
01:18:05.442 - 01:18:10.374
That is how much access Joss Whedon had was he had had everything but that last five minutes.
Kyle
01:18:10.422 - 01:18:11.050
Yeah.
Drew
01:18:11.390 - 01:18:33.414
So I. I mean, the only thing I will say in positive before I say super bad. I mean, I do like that this had a more peppy, high energy, superhero feel to it.
And that's different than what Snyder wants to do with his movies, which is totally okay. But, like, so I. I did find that kind of relieving when watching. It was like. It felt like a regular super quote unquote, regular superhero movie.
Seth
01:18:33.462 - 01:18:33.782
Yeah.
Drew
01:18:33.846 - 01:18:37.540
But there's too much other not good stuff. So super bad for me.
Kyle
01:18:37.580 - 01:18:37.844
Yeah.
Seth
01:18:37.892 - 01:18:38.520
Yeah.
Kyle
01:18:39.180 - 01:18:42.280
So super bad. I just super worst.
Seth
01:18:43.500 - 01:18:45.028
Again, super you.
Kyle
01:18:45.084 - 01:18:55.732
I gotta give Zach's credit. I. Again, this is not my type of movie. These aren't my genre. But at least I can.
What the best thing I could say about Zach is even though I'm not a fan of this series, he gives me moments.
Seth
01:18:55.796 - 01:18:56.324
Yeah.
Kyle
01:18:56.452 - 01:19:17.334
I can at least say I didn't like Batman vs Superman, but there were some moments where I was like, that's pretty cool. Especially with the Batman stuff. Stuff. I'm all that's gone here. I have. I'm not clinging to any of the writing. I'm not clinging to the visuals.
And again, curmudgeon old man. I don't like CGI villains. I don't like CGI characters that are on screen for long periods of time. Except for Lord of the Rings.
I'm fine with it there, but, I.
Drew
01:19:17.342 - 01:19:21.078
Mean, we don't have any, like, orc actors that would ask to join, so it makes sense.
Kyle
01:19:21.134 - 01:19:33.030
Exactly. Somehow. And again, Steppenwolf, he's a little too much CGI for I. No matter. No matter which movie I'm watching.
But here, somehow he made it even worse for me with the stepping. Well, like, I don't know why.
Drew
01:19:33.890 - 01:19:36.122
I mean, he looks like a ball sack. Of a ball sack.
Kyle
01:19:36.186 - 01:19:36.522
Yes.
Drew
01:19:36.586 - 01:19:38.074
To be a real cancerous.
Kyle
01:19:38.202 - 01:19:54.250
Yes. A cancerous lung with a helmet. And I'm just The choices. And it just reminds me, I'll go back to what I said earlier. It's Oscar season.
Who gives a shit about the Oscars? I. This is big Hollywood just falling flat on its face.
Seth
01:19:54.290 - 01:19:54.554
Yeah.
Kyle
01:19:54.602 - 01:20:06.390
It's just big cast, money, executives everywhere. And I am just seeing a flat, serviceable When I say serviceable. It's a movie. It came out. It probably appeased a small segment.
Seth
01:20:06.470 - 01:20:06.966
A story.
Kyle
01:20:07.038 - 01:20:13.638
It tells a story. But let me tell you, I've seen movies for a just a tiny tenth of this budget. Deliver.
Seth
01:20:13.774 - 01:20:14.230
Yeah.
Kyle
01:20:14.310 - 01:20:17.510
Visually. And I just can't believe what I'm seeing. It's.
Seth
01:20:17.590 - 01:20:22.694
It. Compare this to Upgrade. Upgrade had a 5 million dollar budget and was way more fun to watch.
Kyle
01:20:22.862 - 01:20:30.162
Shorter. And it's got fewer name, no actors, and people that, you know. Yes. The upgrade is actually a perfect comparison.
Drew
01:20:30.226 - 01:20:32.050
Yeah, absolutely. So I was thinking that.
Seth
01:20:32.090 - 01:20:32.402
Yeah.
Kyle
01:20:32.466 - 01:20:38.626
I've. I'm just. I'm I'm at this point where I. This is. I can't tolerate this. Sorry. You had a rant last week. I'm going on a rant now.
Drew
01:20:38.778 - 01:20:39.970
Oh, I call next week.
Kyle
01:20:40.010 - 01:21:28.882
Okay. Please. Yep. We all get a rant. We need to have a rant section. Maybe we can do a whole side podcast with our rants. I. The Oscar.
It's Oscar season and I watched this at the wrong time because my boy Edgar's got the shaft. Yeah, he got a few side nominations, but he didn't get the ones that matters. None of the actors in. In Nosferatu got the nominations that matter. Not.
Not that this would have gotten nominations, but what I'm saying is big Hollywood is a big machine. And this kind of annoys me. I hate big casts that just like fall flat on their face. And again, we see better performances in the next one. Right.
Or in the last one. But here, the fact that this was passable and this was encouraged at the executive level. It's malpractice.
Shut up and stop ruining independent thinking. Filmmakers.
Seth
01:21:28.946 - 01:21:29.362
Seriously.
Kyle
01:21:29.426 - 01:21:30.802
Okay, sorry. That's my rant.
Drew
01:21:30.866 - 01:21:31.474
It's good rant.
Kyle
01:21:31.522 - 01:21:36.242
It's Oscar season and it just pisses me off. Sorry. I like ranting. It's nice.
Drew
01:21:36.306 - 01:21:53.498
Well, and the reality is, is more people than not have the same opinions about this movie. Right. Like, and it's just ridiculous. I saw such a big, big scale.
I mean, I mean, all the ingredients were there for a good movie because, I mean, all those actors are. Yeah.
Kyle
01:21:53.674 - 01:21:54.954
And we've seen them do well if.
Drew
01:21:54.962 - 01:21:57.882
They were given good strips. I mean, and like, as these characters.
Seth
01:21:57.946 - 01:21:58.590
Yeah.
Drew
01:21:58.930 - 01:22:04.010
And we have the kind of technology to do all the things better than what we've critiqued. You know, like.
Seth
01:22:04.050 - 01:22:04.314
Yeah.
Drew
01:22:04.362 - 01:22:12.848
It's just people and who are already, you know, already got the followers, already got the position, already got the money. They're gonna. They're gonna generate shit.
Seth
01:22:12.944 - 01:22:31.820
Side note, I forgot to bring up how Mediocre Danny Elfman score for this was. Nothing about it stood out. Everything just felt like we were back in the 90s in a Tim Burton movie. It just felt so bad.
None of the tone matched anything that had been done before.
Drew
01:22:32.200 - 01:22:49.918
That is it. That is. It's not something I noticed when I watched the movie. Maybe because I was noticing too many other things, but.
Yeah, but like we've said this before how, like when you hear a good track to go with a scene, I think man of Steel when he's flying for the first time. Like it makes such a difference. And we had none of those moments.
Seth
01:22:50.014 - 01:22:57.102
I'm going to see Hans Zimmer perform that next week. Hearing us by the time this podcast comes out a couple days before.
Drew
01:22:57.206 - 01:23:02.620
My phone. Yeah, apparently my phone hears you say that all the time. Because every time I turn on YouTube now I get it.
Kyle
01:23:02.670 - 01:23:03.888
Commercial on Zimmer.
Seth
01:23:03.984 - 01:23:08.496
Oh, they're. They're pumping the out of it. I've seen it everywhere too. Even though I bought tickets already.
Kyle
01:23:08.568 - 01:23:17.820
Zimmer. Barely know her. 020 to 5. It is going well for you, Mr. Weeden. How does it feel?
Seth
01:23:18.120 - 01:23:19.712
You are not entertained?
Kyle
01:23:19.856 - 01:23:22.544
You and Ezra Miller having drinks somewhere in Greenland?
Drew
01:23:22.592 - 01:23:24.432
I like to think Amber heard singing.
Kyle
01:23:24.576 - 01:23:26.352
Probably yeah. On the table.
Drew
01:23:26.416 - 01:23:28.368
That's. That's the real Injustice League.
Kyle
01:23:28.504 - 01:23:30.016
That's. Yeah, that's the.
Drew
01:23:30.168 - 01:23:30.768
That's the.
Seth
01:23:30.824 - 01:23:32.688
That is Walter Hamada in there too.
Kyle
01:23:32.744 - 01:23:41.520
Yeah, it's the. What do they call the Warloot? What is it? The Mario the Dark World version. It's like that version of. Of the Justice League, which is also.
Drew
01:23:41.560 - 01:23:43.620
Called the Injustice League. That was my joke.
Kyle
01:23:44.120 - 01:23:48.960
This is the category I've been waiting for all day. How good are these bad guys? Huh?
Seth
01:23:49.040 - 01:23:49.920
What? Bad guys?
Kyle
01:23:50.000 - 01:23:51.072
Oh my God.
Seth
01:23:51.216 - 01:24:16.698
Oh my God is correct. So I'm not even gonna compare him to the way he is in the Snyder cut. Just because when this came out, we didn't know.
We didn't have any conception of what he was supposed to look like. Just in this a. Why is he wearing ancient Egyptian garb? Why does he show up literally looking like a pharaoh? Apparently.
Drew
01:24:16.794 - 01:24:19.226
What's the closet that he came out of?
Seth
01:24:19.378 - 01:24:32.072
Like, like, what the fuck was he thinking? Like we've said he looks like a fucking ball sack that's got horns and is wearing some ancient Egyptian like dollar store costume of a pharaoh.
Drew
01:24:32.136 - 01:24:36.408
Feels a little racist to whatever alien race he is, but okay. Who cares?
Seth
01:24:36.584 - 01:24:42.820
Oh my God. It's so bad. Ugh. Super bad. Fuck it.
Drew
01:24:43.120 - 01:24:58.214
I'll judge this based. Cause we can only look at this movie. That's the thing. Cause, like, I don't mind. I didn't mind him as a villain. Villain.
As if this was a one Justice League of three. He's like, in general, not a bad first villain, but with just what we saw of him in this.
Kyle
01:24:58.302 - 01:24:58.614
Yeah.
Drew
01:24:58.662 - 01:25:11.590
Without knowing the things, you know, from the other movies. Things, you know, just in general, gotta give him a super bad. Because very generic and underwhelming. Like, if the.
If you picked up this movie, you've never seen a Superman anything.
Seth
01:25:11.670 - 01:25:12.118
Yeah.
Drew
01:25:12.214 - 01:25:20.378
And you're just to have like. Well, this is the information I have of this guy. The Justice League just. Just didn't give us enough. It just was a bad dude up to no good.
Kyle
01:25:20.434 - 01:25:38.682
Yeah, totally. Yeah. This is so super bad for me. It hits the. It hits the marker for me as hating CGI characters that are prominent on screen.
And it's just badly done. Also, you know, you may recall, but Dark Knight Rises, there was a lot of concern about Bane being the villain. They're initially like, Bane.
Seth
01:25:38.746 - 01:25:39.082
Yeah.
Kyle
01:25:39.146 - 01:25:41.690
Like a lot of people. And I liked him in other iterations.
Drew
01:25:41.770 - 01:25:42.122
Yeah.
Kyle
01:25:42.186 - 01:25:49.732
But Christopher Nolan hired the right actor and elevated that character. He changed him in a way that made him very interesting.
Seth
01:25:49.796 - 01:25:50.228
Yeah.
Kyle
01:25:50.324 - 01:25:51.428
That was an option here.
Seth
01:25:51.484 - 01:25:51.812
Yeah.
Kyle
01:25:51.876 - 01:25:57.700
If we had a. If we had someone at the helm that was worth a damn, this Steppenwolf could have. Could have been interesting.
Drew
01:25:57.780 - 01:26:04.996
Yeah, that's a good point. Like, when they take these obscure villains, that's a. That is an opportunity to, like, do something noteworthy.
Kyle
01:26:05.028 - 01:26:05.236
Yeah.
Seth
01:26:05.268 - 01:26:05.620
Yeah.
Kyle
01:26:05.700 - 01:26:07.140
And Bane's the best example of that.
Seth
01:26:07.180 - 01:26:07.796
Absolutely.
Kyle
01:26:07.908 - 01:26:08.244
Yeah.
Drew
01:26:08.292 - 01:26:17.806
First of all, Bane was a fantastic villain in Batman. He's created to be Batman's equal. Secondly, they neutered him in the Dark Knight Rises when they made Talia the mastermind behind it.
Seth
01:26:17.878 - 01:26:25.678
And I disagree. But to each their own. I don't know. Like, in that universe, it made sense. But I get your complaint. I disagree.
Drew
01:26:25.774 - 01:26:34.126
I feel like. I feel like I love everything about that trilogy except for that part. And it's like. It's a bit.
It's like an old baggage I have from an old breakup from years ago.
Kyle
01:26:34.198 - 01:26:39.610
Are you missing all the tubes in his back and stuff? Is that what you're missing? The backpack with all of his venom stuff in it?
Drew
01:26:40.410 - 01:26:52.514
That didn't bother me that much. It was that he started the movie. He was like. At first, he was like, such a bad guy, which was like.
I mean, he was originally created to be Batman's physical equal with the same intellect.
Seth
01:26:52.562 - 01:26:53.202
Yeah.
Drew
01:26:53.346 - 01:27:11.718
And I liked that. I Mean, the old version of him in that Batman Forever movie or whatever was definitely that. That was. That was the worst version of him.
But this one, it switched so quickly when they made him not the main villain. And I know this isn't a. A movie review of the Dark Knight Rises, so it's okay if you edit that out, but.
Kyle
01:27:11.854 - 01:27:17.014
No, it's good. No, we're. We're. It's. It's. It makes sense because we're talking about comparing to other villain universes.
Seth
01:27:17.062 - 01:27:17.382
Yeah.
Kyle
01:27:17.446 - 01:27:25.622
And again, I keep saying this, but I'm speaking of Bane. My one gripe with every single one of these movies is I am just missing Batman villains.
Seth
01:27:25.686 - 01:27:26.214
Yeah.
Kyle
01:27:26.342 - 01:27:32.906
So much so that I even was so excited in the premonition to see Joker. I was like, whoa, at least Joker's here. Like, I just love those villains.
Drew
01:27:32.998 - 01:27:51.234
Would have loved to see.
That is like, I would have loved to see more everything in these movies regarding the future sequence where you see, like, the post apocalyptic Justice League, or in that case, it's probably a combination of Justice League and Injustice League. But like, Jared Leto's Joker, I didn't love him in, like, Suicide Squad. I didn't.
Seth
01:27:51.362 - 01:27:56.370
Which is fair because we only saw 15 minutes of the hour of scenes that he had in the original version.
Drew
01:27:56.450 - 01:28:06.776
But I was intrigued by him. I wanted to see more of him. I. It was one of those. I was like, I. I feel like I probably won't like this version of the Joker, but it was different.
I don't mind different sometimes when it's unique.
Seth
01:28:06.888 - 01:28:25.320
So that whole future scene stuff that was supposed to be Justice League 2, that was supposed to be the entirety of that movie was Lois dies near the beginning and the world goes into chaos. And then that's where all of those premonitions were leading to. That being the middle of the Justice League trilogy.
Drew
01:28:25.400 - 01:28:34.488
That was probably the most intriguing part of the whole series to me is anytime they showed, like, the. That future stuff because, I don't know, it looks different enough.
Seth
01:28:34.544 - 01:28:34.824
Yeah.
Kyle
01:28:34.872 - 01:28:44.760
Yeah. Well, I have a whole, whole thing dedicated to that premonition in the next episode because that was.
That was interesting for me as a non comic book person. Zero to six.
Seth
01:28:44.880 - 01:28:45.416
Yeah.
Drew
01:28:45.528 - 01:28:47.992
Good. This one's the one that we change our mind, Right?
Seth
01:28:48.016 - 01:28:48.360
Yeah.
Kyle
01:28:48.440 - 01:28:49.560
Yeah, right, right.
Seth
01:28:49.600 - 01:28:51.540
I know the Queen sweep here.
Kyle
01:28:52.640 - 01:28:58.576
I'm trying to think this may be the first ever, if we do go07. I don't think that's ever happened before.
Seth
01:28:58.648 - 01:29:00.960
I think shitty of Angels was because.
Drew
01:29:01.000 - 01:29:02.512
I was like, we've been here before.
Seth
01:29:02.616 - 01:29:02.944
Yeah.
Kyle
01:29:02.992 - 01:29:07.840
I think I Think a few of us voted positive on some things, but ultimately it ended up.
Drew
01:29:07.960 - 01:29:09.552
This might be the first ever clean sweep.
Kyle
01:29:09.616 - 01:29:10.260
Yeah.
Seth
01:29:10.600 - 01:29:20.594
Good lore, I mean, like you said, makes me not give a. Yeah. It makes me never care to look into anything else. Else.
Kyle
01:29:20.642 - 01:29:20.866
Yeah.
Seth
01:29:20.898 - 01:29:43.794
I mean, yeah. The movie ended, and I was.
When I first saw it, as much as I did enjoy it when it first came out, I didn't want to look into any of the other characters. Like, sure, Aquaman was gonna come out in a few months, but that was like, it. Like that's all I gave a shit about. But no, no, this is. It's so bad. He.
He took every possible good thing that he could have pulled out of Snyder's version and just said, fuck you.
Kyle
01:29:43.882 - 01:29:44.386
Yeah.
Seth
01:29:44.498 - 01:29:45.010
So no.
Kyle
01:29:45.050 - 01:29:45.314
Yeah.
Seth
01:29:45.362 - 01:29:46.072
Super bad.
Drew
01:29:46.226 - 01:30:11.760
The real question is what my answer will be for the next week on. Because I'm divided on that for right now, but for this week. No, because what little we had of everything.
I mean, you were saying as a not superhero fan, you don't want to go look into anything. I mean, these are all. There are so many captivating characters in this movie that are worth looking into.
But good Lord, if this was my first introduction to the Flash.
Kyle
01:30:12.370 - 01:30:12.746
Yeah.
Drew
01:30:12.778 - 01:30:16.154
There's no way I would. Again, he's one of my favorites. Like, I would have. There's no way.
Seth
01:30:16.242 - 01:30:16.682
No.
Drew
01:30:16.786 - 01:30:19.610
And. And you just. You just don't get enough of the other characters.
Seth
01:30:19.690 - 01:30:21.338
Let's go get brunch after this, guys.
Kyle
01:30:21.434 - 01:30:22.186
Yeah, let's.
Seth
01:30:22.218 - 01:30:26.602
Let's go get brunch. Yeah. What the was with that joke?
Kyle
01:30:26.666 - 01:30:30.218
I know. It doesn't make sense, even you saying it a lot. I'm like, I forgot that was even said.
Drew
01:30:30.354 - 01:30:31.882
I was like, okay, that sounds good.
Seth
01:30:32.066 - 01:30:39.064
They do the. Like that he does the race as the mid credit scene is like, if you. If I win, you're gonna get everyone brunch.
Kyle
01:30:39.202 - 01:30:39.612
Yeah.
Seth
01:30:39.676 - 01:30:41.532
Like, fuck that.
Kyle
01:30:41.636 - 01:30:43.436
Yeah. After you just got shat on.
Seth
01:30:43.508 - 01:30:43.804
Yeah.
Kyle
01:30:43.852 - 01:30:44.732
During a whole movie.
Drew
01:30:44.796 - 01:30:45.532
Yeah.
Kyle
01:30:45.676 - 01:30:46.700
Yeah. So super bad.
Drew
01:30:46.740 - 01:30:47.868
Oh, yes. Super bad.
Kyle
01:30:47.924 - 01:31:00.220
Yeah. I do too. And what sucks is, like, again, I keep going back to this. These aren't my favorite. I'm not really. These aren't my favorites.
But the thing that man of Steel and even Batman vs Superman did is like, they gave me enough to say I could keep going.
Seth
01:31:00.260 - 01:31:00.556
Yeah.
Kyle
01:31:00.588 - 01:31:02.652
And this is interesting. There were interesting things.
Drew
01:31:02.756 - 01:31:03.164
Yeah.
Kyle
01:31:03.212 - 01:31:08.474
And that. That at least propelled me to say I could keep going through this. This makes me want to disregard anything after.
Seth
01:31:08.562 - 01:31:08.826
Yeah.
Kyle
01:31:08.858 - 01:31:28.570
Yeah. I'm lucky that I caught on to it years after all the happened because I At least know enough. Say I need to give Snyder cut a trilogy.
Had I been doing this in real time, I. I would have said, hell no, I'm not spending any money, any time with this series. That was this everything that I.
The few things I did love about the first two are completely gone here.
Seth
01:31:28.610 - 01:31:28.874
Yeah.
Kyle
01:31:28.922 - 01:31:35.540
Completely gone. Yeah. It's like, it's like I feel like Ben Affleck's not even acting. Yeah. Like, where is Batman? Where is.
Drew
01:31:35.580 - 01:31:36.052
Where is it?
Kyle
01:31:36.076 - 01:31:36.468
What is it?
Seth
01:31:36.524 - 01:31:37.732
Because he literally wasn't.
Kyle
01:31:37.796 - 01:31:38.084
Yeah.
Seth
01:31:38.132 - 01:31:41.652
Literally was in an alcoholic trance for the entirety of the reshoot.
Kyle
01:31:41.716 - 01:31:42.052
Yeah.
Seth
01:31:42.116 - 01:31:45.332
Like it. And he. He has said watching it, wishing that.
Drew
01:31:45.356 - 01:31:46.260
Was in an alcoholic.
Seth
01:31:46.340 - 01:31:50.452
I know. Yeah. Yeah. This is a bad month for me to decide to do dry January.
Kyle
01:31:50.556 - 01:31:52.036
Yeah. Yeah.
Seth
01:31:52.148 - 01:31:59.614
But literally he's. He's said multiple times, like, doing this is what turned him into a full blown out alcoholics.
Drew
01:31:59.662 - 01:32:01.290
Well, I don't know if we can.
Seth
01:32:01.910 - 01:32:05.902
Oh, no, I'm sure he was drinking plenty before that. But he said this shouldn't be.
Drew
01:32:05.926 - 01:32:07.822
That, that shouldn't be any. Like, I don't know, like.
Seth
01:32:07.846 - 01:32:15.230
Well, no, what I'm saying is, like, this is what made it bad. This is what went. Took it from fun drinking to drinking. Because he hates himself.
Kyle
01:32:15.310 - 01:32:15.806
Yeah.
Seth
01:32:15.918 - 01:32:18.766
Like, that's what happened during these reshoots.
Drew
01:32:18.958 - 01:32:25.422
Side note, don't let your job become your identity where you fall into terrible places because of a bad work environment.
Seth
01:32:25.526 - 01:32:26.206
Get help, people.
Kyle
01:32:26.278 - 01:32:28.414
Yeah, but. But don't do movies with Joss Whedon.
Seth
01:32:28.462 - 01:32:28.830
Yeah.
Drew
01:32:28.910 - 01:32:43.758
Going back to what you're saying. So in the.
When we watch the Snyder movies and we'll see this again next week, you can see where he picks all the different things from comics and inspirations of the different characters and stuff like that. And then you as a viewer, you get to decide whether you like it or not.
Kyle
01:32:43.814 - 01:32:44.286
Yeah.
Drew
01:32:44.398 - 01:33:11.944
But you. It always starts with like, I see where he's coming from. But. Or, and you know, but with this. Because he just cut pieces of the.
The what was already there, very small pieces, and they just kind of threw his own stuff together with what seemed like no like knowledge or thought to like these characters in general. It. There was like. Whereas with Snyder, you could be like, I see what he did with the lore. And maybe I didn't like it. Maybe I liked it.
With this version, you're like, where's the Lord?
Seth
01:33:11.992 - 01:33:12.620
Yeah.
Kyle
01:33:13.200 - 01:33:17.288
Yep. Well, zero to seven. Joss, how does it feel?
Seth
01:33:17.424 - 01:33:18.328
Stuck a dick.
Kyle
01:33:18.424 - 01:33:31.798
Yeah. Injustice is what it feels like. So we're gonna do the Snyder cut next week. Shares 45 minutes of footage and it has a lore all its own.
Yeah thanks to Reddit and fans.
Drew
01:33:31.894 - 01:33:43.382
Yeah if it was an hour longer you would be legally obligated by Tennessee to take a 30 minute. Yeah it's God is so long. Yeah well it took three sit ins.
Seth
01:33:43.486 - 01:33:46.550
Yeah for me I mean that's fair. We'll talk about it. We'll talk.
Kyle
01:33:46.590 - 01:34:00.678
Yeah well but even though it's not my bag super thing I actually have enjoyed going through this so I'm excited we're going to cap it off and I would love for us to give us our like I'm not going to give a stack rank because it's so all over but last episode of the series we're going to give like just our own summary.
Drew
01:34:00.774 - 01:34:01.126
Okay.
Kyle
01:34:01.158 - 01:34:06.598
And thought of what happened so tune out or tune in. Thank you so much for chilling with us. Love you. I'm Kyle.
Seth
01:34:06.694 - 01:34:07.094
Seth.
Drew
01:34:07.142 - 01:34:08.166
I'm Drew.
Kyle
01:34:08.358 - 01:34:09.530
Bye Joss.
Seth
01:34:11.310 - 01:34:13.280
Movie wars it.