Zack Snyder’s Justice Leauge
Kyle
00:00:00.160 - 00:00:16.540
Foreign. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast.
Seth
00:00:17.840 - 00:00:19.144
We did it. We're here.
Kyle
00:00:19.232 - 00:00:21.300
We're back. Seth and Drew are back.
Drew
00:00:21.840 - 00:00:22.600
I'm always here.
Kyle
00:00:22.640 - 00:00:23.784
You're always here.
Seth
00:00:23.952 - 00:00:25.048
Literally. It's at your house.
Drew
00:00:25.104 - 00:00:26.100
It's my house.
Kyle
00:00:26.480 - 00:00:49.876
It's been a journey. A journey that I wouldn't have been brought on.
One thing I've loved about having you guys as part of the show is that you've pushed me to do new things. Old Movie wars fans know I don't typically dabble, but I'm glad we went on this journey and where I want to start today.
And you're going to provide a very. You're very detailed and knowledge about all the drama and the things that happened with the Snyder cut.
I found out about it much later because I just didn't care.
Seth
00:00:49.948 - 00:00:50.600
Yeah.
Kyle
00:00:51.420 - 00:00:56.404
But I have never been so divided on a movie. We're talking about the Snyder's Cut Justice.
Drew
00:00:56.452 - 00:01:00.338
League, officially known as Zack Snyder's Justice League.
Kyle
00:01:00.394 - 00:01:02.178
Officially. If you want to go look it up.
Drew
00:01:02.234 - 00:01:02.658
Yeah.
Kyle
00:01:02.754 - 00:01:12.194
I. You know, I'm so on the fence because it's hard to.
I don't know if you feel this way, but it's hard to eliminate the external noise of everything that happened.
Drew
00:01:12.242 - 00:01:12.562
Yes.
Seth
00:01:12.626 - 00:01:13.106
Good point.
Kyle
00:01:13.178 - 00:01:21.218
It's really hard now because a lot of the movies I love faced a lot of drought, like Apocalypse now, went through so much drama. But I found out about it 40 years later.
Drew
00:01:21.274 - 00:01:21.910
Yeah.
Kyle
00:01:22.410 - 00:01:23.870
And we didn't have the Internet.
Drew
00:01:23.970 - 00:01:25.910
Was that alive when the drama was happening?
Kyle
00:01:25.990 - 00:01:49.510
Yeah. All the stuff was happening in. In the Philippines. And they found out about the newspaper six months after it happens.
Like, oh, Martin Sheen had a heart attack. That's unfortunate. He seems fine now. But, you know, I'm on the fence for a lot of reasons.
One of them is there are so many setups for future films that never are going to happen and won't happen. The premonition at the end actually got me really excited.
Drew
00:01:49.590 - 00:01:50.032
Yeah.
Seth
00:01:50.126 - 00:01:50.828
For nothing.
Kyle
00:01:50.924 - 00:02:08.684
For. I was like, we have a category for this good lore. And that's for me, for these two. They're a little more knowledgeable. But for me, is it.
Does it hook me into wanting to know more and to keep going? It's so hard for me because finally we're at the end of this journey and finally something I really sink my teeth into.
Seth
00:02:08.772 - 00:02:09.116
Absolutely.
Kyle
00:02:09.148 - 00:02:17.466
There were moments in B vers. B Batman versus Superman. There were moments in man of Steel that said, I can keep going. That premonition was like, I want that.
Drew
00:02:17.538 - 00:02:17.882
Yeah.
Seth
00:02:17.946 - 00:02:19.258
And then I felt the same way.
Kyle
00:02:19.314 - 00:02:24.746
I Felt that way. But then instantly disappointment washed over me when I said, never going to happen.
Seth
00:02:24.898 - 00:02:25.482
Absolutely.
Kyle
00:02:25.546 - 00:02:31.146
He's wearing that trench coat. He's got the gun. I mean, we got. What's his face. What's the sniper guy's name again? Dead.
Drew
00:02:31.178 - 00:02:31.706
Oh, Deadshot.
Kyle
00:02:31.738 - 00:02:37.098
We got Deadshot. We got like we're partnering with the Joker. Even though we want to kill the Joker. It's like, I want this movie.
Drew
00:02:37.194 - 00:02:38.602
I take that back. It was Deathstroke.
Kyle
00:02:38.666 - 00:02:39.274
Death stroke.
Seth
00:02:39.322 - 00:02:45.974
I was. I was trying. I was holding it in. And I glad you said it, but I didn't want to be that guy. Yeah.
Kyle
00:02:46.022 - 00:02:46.822
Stroker Rain.
Drew
00:02:46.886 - 00:02:55.894
Yeah. Joe Manganiello. Fucking love him. I feel so bad for how shafted he was by all of this because he would have been. He would have been so good.
Seth
00:02:55.982 - 00:03:15.180
I am with you. I remember when I watched this. This was my third time, third four hour stint into the Snyder verse. I've given this.
This man in this movie 12 hours of my life.
But I remember it was the second time when I watched it with my friends and afterwards and we saw that premonition sign scene and we're like, that was awesome.
Kyle
00:03:15.600 - 00:03:19.032
Well, yeah. It's hard.
Seth
00:03:19.056 - 00:03:21.336
It's like, well, I guess we'll never see what happens here.
Drew
00:03:21.408 - 00:03:21.992
Yeah.
Kyle
00:03:22.136 - 00:03:32.728
You know, and.
And also jokingly, the question, even though this is a really watered down version, it's like, what happens when you take a really bad movie and add two hours to it? You know, it's like, obviously that's a very watered down.
Drew
00:03:32.784 - 00:03:38.568
Or it's like take two hours out of it and then put another three hours and 15 minutes into it.
Kyle
00:03:38.624 - 00:03:39.592
Yes, exactly.
Seth
00:03:39.656 - 00:03:39.992
Yeah.
Kyle
00:03:40.056 - 00:03:48.932
I'm like, does it make it better? You know? You know, and so I find myself like, I was texting you in real time. I was like, the first half of this movie kind of drags.
Drew
00:03:48.996 - 00:03:49.332
Yeah.
Kyle
00:03:49.396 - 00:03:53.876
I'm having a hard time. Yeah. And then Cyborg hooks me in hard.
Seth
00:03:53.948 - 00:03:55.156
That probably for me too.
Kyle
00:03:55.228 - 00:04:00.996
When Cyborg kicks in, that got me in. And then like from. I would say, like from the 70 mark on.
Drew
00:04:01.068 - 00:04:01.316
Yeah.
Kyle
00:04:01.348 - 00:04:09.716
I'm like, in. But I'm like, it leaves me. Because this is not. I wouldn't call this the definitive cut. I would call this a whatever you want.
Drew
00:04:09.788 - 00:04:10.340
Everything cut.
Kyle
00:04:10.380 - 00:04:14.402
It's the everything cut. We still don't have a definitive cut of this movie.
Seth
00:04:14.466 - 00:04:15.122
Where.
Kyle
00:04:15.306 - 00:04:17.730
Somewhere between Joss Whedon not being a dick.
Drew
00:04:17.810 - 00:04:18.114
Yeah.
Kyle
00:04:18.162 - 00:04:23.122
And Zack Snider not getting the opportunity to do a four and a half hour movie. Like, where is that sweet spot?
Drew
00:04:23.186 - 00:04:23.522
Yeah.
Kyle
00:04:23.586 - 00:04:58.778
And here's the Thing, I have a lot of respect for Zack Snyder, considering what he went through here. And like I said in the last episode, I'm championing him. I want his next one to be a banger. He deserves an opportunity. But I didn't like 300.
I thought I didn't, you know, I, I, I thought it was interesting and neat from almost like a, like a. Oh, I've never seen something like this before, but I just think so. I, I still personally don't know who Zack Snyder is as a director.
I know what his trademarks are, I know what his visual, and I do like his visual style. But can this man make a complete film? I feel like we still don't know Watchmen. I mean, I guess Watchman's really good.
Drew
00:04:58.834 - 00:04:59.626
Watchman's fantastic.
Kyle
00:04:59.658 - 00:05:02.010
I do like the Watchman. It's just been years since I've seen it.
Drew
00:05:02.050 - 00:05:25.810
Sucker Punch is one that's pretty divisive. But if I remember correctly, overall, people thought it was decent, but not as best. Most recently, because he did do. Oh, what is it?
He did another zombie movie with Tig Notaro and Dave Bautista and a bunch of people after Justice League and the whole fiasco there, man.
Seth
00:05:25.850 - 00:05:26.738
What was the name of that?
Drew
00:05:26.794 - 00:05:32.132
Because he did dawn of the Dead as his very first big feature, but before he did 300.
Seth
00:05:32.236 - 00:05:33.924
And this is another army of Dead.
Drew
00:05:33.972 - 00:05:35.348
Army of the Dead. That's what it is.
Seth
00:05:35.404 - 00:05:46.484
Yeah. I was just thinking to myself, cause like, you guys let me know when I'm allowed to do my Zack Snyder rant. But I'd forgotten that he did that movie.
And I actually really liked I need to see it.
Drew
00:05:46.572 - 00:06:11.380
I've never seen it. Or dawn of the Dead. Most recently though, he's done the Rebel Moon movies, which similar situation to Justice League.
Netflix came to him and said because, because he wrote Rebel Moon initially as a Star wars movie and he knew George Lucas or Lucasfilm and Disney would never touch it. Like, he, he brought it to a couple of the exacts. They were like, it's cool. But yeah, we're, we just, we're not going to do it.
Kyle
00:06:11.420 - 00:06:11.732
Yeah.
Drew
00:06:11.796 - 00:06:54.774
So Netflix bought it. He reimagined it to be its own world. Obviously very Star wars based. But long story short, Netflix said, we'll let you make whatever you want to make.
You just have to deliver PG13 versions of it to us for first. So he delivers a shorter cut. It gets critically panned. The audience doesn't love it. I watched the original ones, they were okay.
But then he puts out his actual director's Cuts, which was his initial plan from the get go. Miles better. So much more fun to watch. All the complaints people had about things not being fleshed out enough got fleshed out like.
So he tends to keep getting put through the ringer where he's like, let me make my movie. But everyone's like, no, no, no, we want our version first.
Seth
00:06:54.862 - 00:06:58.982
Well, maybe it's cause everyone's like, we don't want a four hour version of this movie.
Drew
00:06:59.046 - 00:09:38.880
See, that's the thing though is it's like if you're gonna watch a Peter Jackson movie, you're gonna watch a movie that's at least three hours long. If you're gonna watch a Quentin Tarantino movie, it's gonna be insanely violent at points and there's gonna be a ton of foot shots.
If you're going to watch a Zack Snyder movie, it's going to be long form storytelling and there's gonna be a lot of slow motion. If you don't like his style, then that's fine, but stop asking directors to do the thing that they don't do. Let them do their thing.
Let their people who love it have fun with it, but stop forcing people in doing their thing. So if you want, I can quickly go into the history of how this happened with Zack Snyder's Justice League and then you can go on your rant.
Okay, so basically what happened is 2017, we get justice League. And it was okay in the reviews, but most of the hardcore fans were like, what the was this?
Because it was the exact opposite of everything Zack Snyder had done before with, with man of Steel bbs. And even with his fingers being in Wonder Woman, you can, you can feel the tone that he had set for the DCEU at the time.
So when Justice League comes out, everyone is like, what the actual. This is not clearly not a Zack Snyder movie. What is going on?
Then everyone kind of let it die for about a year until Ben Affleck, his solo movie, goes away. Ray Fisher starts complaining and starts suing Warner Brothers and Joss Whedon over what happened.
And I think it was Jason Momoa who first brought up the fact that, oh yeah, there is a Snyder cut. He's like, Zack Snyder has a different version of the movie. And I've seen it and it's awesome. He's like, it's not finished.
There's a couple things that need to be tweaked and the visual effects need to happen, but it's a great version of the movie and that launched an entire Internet campaign called hashtag RestoreTheSnyderverse or release the Snyder Cut. Both of those were a thing. Now, as the years went on and as people have come out about it, you have the.
The heads at Warner Brothers, before James Gunn took over talking about how, oh, this was a bullshit campaign. It was all fueled by bots like, Snyder fans are the worst. They fucking bullied us into releasing this movie. They're pieces of shit.
Everyone calls it the Snyder cult because they're. They're so passionate about what they were going to get and what they wanted to see.
And yes, this is coming from the guy who's been banned from the Snyder Cut subreddit. So take it as you will.
Seth
00:09:39.580 - 00:09:42.884
So I think you should. I should. I think you should be an admin for that.
Drew
00:09:42.972 - 00:11:24.398
I should have. But fuck them. Here's what happened, though. Covid rolls around. Covid happens Zack Snyder's pen up at home, and he's going back through his version.
And on Vero, he starts releasing images and little, little teasers. He was like, oh, yeah, here's. Here's what. Here's a little hint at what Steppenwolf actually looked like in my version.
And everyone starts flying, freaking out. They're like, what in the world? This is insane.
Every time he releases a new picture, it just floods the Internet with hashtag, release the Snyder cut. And so because things were really slow at Warner Brothers during the pandemic, they were like, fine, we need to put something out soon anyways.
So that's when they announced in the middle of 2020 that we're going to get the Zack Snyder's justice league come 2021. And when it comes out, it is pretty much universally compared to Justice League where everyone is like, this was insane. What the fuck happened?
Why did we just get the ruined version? And now, obviously, since then, there's still a Restore the Snyderverse campaign that is at this point. People just need to let it go, okay?
It's not coming back. I. Believe me, I wish we could get Ben Affleck solo movie. I wish we could get Justice League 2 and 3. And I wish we could get man of Steel 2. You.
We're not going to let it go. However, that is how we got the Snyder cut in its four hour entity, which again, I call it the everything cut.
I don't think it's what he was going to put into theaters, but since he's like, fine, this is the only chance I'm going to get to put out what I want to put out. As far as this story is concerned, he just left everything in.
Kyle
00:11:24.454 - 00:11:25.022
Yeah.
Drew
00:11:25.166 - 00:11:39.690
So that's what got us to hear. We'll have a little bit of a discussion on long form storytelling as far as why things look the way they do.
But please, I am excited, ladies and gentlemen. Drew Davis is about to give us his first Movie wars rant. And I am so pumped for this.
Kyle
00:11:39.730 - 00:11:43.114
We've been loving the rants lately. In fact, I think we're going to have a sideshow just about Rants.
Seth
00:11:43.162 - 00:11:45.050
Yes, rants. Yeah. Rant Wars.
Drew
00:11:45.130 - 00:11:48.954
I want to hear. Please tell us your unadulterated thoughts.
Seth
00:11:49.082 - 00:12:48.336
Well, I was just going to talk about Zack Snyder and movie directing. But anyway. Okay. So I've. This is this.
I'm glad that we've done this movie rewatch of the Snyder cut versions of the movies man of Steel through the Snyder Cut Justice League. And it has made me sit down and really focus on Snyder directing and movie.
And I have a lot of thoughts about superhero movies because I'm such a fan of superhero movies. I. I'm somewhere in between. This was a good movie and like understanding why they called it a Snyder cult.
Yeah, because like here's my thing with watching Zack Snyder's versions of these superhero movies. On one hand, I love anything superhero content. So like as a nerd, I remember when the Snyder cut came out, I watched it by myself.
I got together with friends and watched it. We had a wonderful time this week. When I sat down it took me three sits downs to give myself up for four hours to this movie.
Drew
00:12:48.368 - 00:12:59.744
Again, very quick side note, he did say when he released it that he broke it up into those chapters specifically for that. You are actually watching it in one of the ways he agreed he intended to. Please continue.
Seth
00:12:59.832 - 00:13:15.372
Here's my overall problem is I think it's like you were saying, Kyle, we want Snyder to win where champion him as a director, as a person. He's gone through a lot. He's put a lot into this. I love his stories. I'm not a big fan of his directing style.
Drew
00:13:15.436 - 00:13:15.996
That's fair.
Seth
00:13:16.068 - 00:13:52.986
And here's the reasons why is I feel like visually they are great, wonderful. I can get behind that.
But I struggle with him telling a good story and then especially when you're relating it to the superheroes like with stuff that I already. With stuff that already exists.
I feel like that's almost for a director that has to be harder to take something already made and putting your own spin on it and having a successful story. But the thing is is I get so frustrated with the cult being like no it's just a fantastic story.
Like, it's like this is Zack Snyder, not Jesus Christ.
Drew
00:13:53.058 - 00:13:57.962
You know, like, despite all the Christ parallels in man of the Old, I.
Seth
00:13:57.986 - 00:14:07.962
Just, of course we all have our, you know, the series that we think is without fail. So I'll use mine as an example. I'm a huge Fast and Furious fan.
Drew
00:14:08.106 - 00:14:09.630
You and Christopher Nolan?
Seth
00:14:10.210 - 00:15:51.442
Exactly. I'm a part of a group that is a huge fast and fur like following. But here's the big difference between them and the Snyder cult.
With the exception of Vin Diesel, most people that watch Fast and Furious will look at it and point out the obvious flaws and be like, well, yeah, it is over the top. Yeah, there's plot's not very strong. Yeah, they make stupid connections just for the fun of reincorporating the same actors and characters.
But that's part of the fun of the movie. Whereas oftentimes when we look and point out the flaws of the Snyderverse, we're often told, no, it's a fantastic plot.
You just don't understand the over. And I did my homework before last week.
I did my homework, I read everything where it was going and my first thought was like, that could have been interesting and fun to watch. And then my next thought was like, it'd be just as boring as the other movies I've watched by him.
It would be slow motion, the characters would not be given justice. Unintentional pun there.
And so I just really, when it comes down to with movies, we all have our personal tastes and it's totally okay to like or dislike whatever you like or dislike. And you can appreciate things and you can look at things and say, they're not for me.
And it's only when you look at someone else and they're like, you are dumb for having that opinion that I feel like you're wrong. But I feel like I live in this world where I'm being told no Zack Snyder stuff is perfect and there's no, there's no room for error.
And I'm like, it wasn't that good. Like, it was fine. It was fun. The nerd in me, any superhero content I'm all for.
But after watching these movies, like I would be one, my life would be so much better if I never have to watch this four hour movie again. 3. Three is fine for me.
Drew
00:15:51.466 - 00:16:29.064
Yeah, yeah, I watch it once a year at least. I don't know. But again, I enjoy, I do enjoy his over the top storytelling. I've known since 300 that he's over the top. If.
If there is any movie that could be defined as over the top, it is 300. Like, it is the most over the top. Crazy. Down to, like the design of Xerxes, who is a historical figure. Like, down to his design.
Everything he does is over the top. And again, if you don't want to watch a movie with a lot of foot shots, don't watch Quentin Tarantino.
If you don't want to watch an over the top visual spectacle, don't watch anything.
Seth
00:16:29.112 - 00:16:34.328
Zack Snyder, I think where the debate comes in and people listening. Feel free to drop your opinions on this.
Kyle
00:16:34.464 - 00:16:36.488
I will very much.
Seth
00:16:36.544 - 00:16:42.424
I already know you will. I feel like I have to on my podcast, I have to beg people for their opinions. Not so much with the movie awards podcast.
Kyle
00:16:42.552 - 00:16:44.008
We stir it up, baby.
Seth
00:16:44.184 - 00:17:10.830
No. So the big debate, when you watch a Snyder film, though, is this over the top or is this just a bad story? Like, that's really what it comes down to.
Because graphically I'm all. I think his above and beyond is fantastic. That Xerxes sing. That was fantastic. So much of the Justice League is so cool to watch.
But then when the slow pacing and the lack of story and character development. When I watched this version of Justice League, I felt like I was asking an old relative how their day was.
Drew
00:17:10.950 - 00:17:11.518
And they were.
Seth
00:17:11.574 - 00:17:38.251
All they were saying was, I went to the grocery store and bought a thing of eggs, but they're telling it to me in four hours.
And before they get to the going and checking out with the eggs, they're saying, but before I get to that, let me tell you about the day that the produce manager had, which impacts why there wasn't as many eggs on the shelf. Sure. And I'm just like, I was crazy. Grandpa was just asking, what were you doing for the. Like, I don't like. And.
And knowing what Jeff is doing behind the scenes does not help the story of the eggs at all.
Kyle
00:17:38.355 - 00:17:48.427
So that, that begs the question I have for you. That's. I'm actually glad you said that. So in the story, does Zach edit it together? Who's editing the Snyder's cut together?
Drew
00:17:48.483 - 00:17:54.849
I mean, he has an editor, but he's every. Every good director is insanely involved in the editing process.
Kyle
00:17:54.939 - 00:18:18.214
I just was wondering because some of what you're saying, like, that's kind of. You actually said kind of in a better way. Actually what I said earlier, like, I just don't have the read on like, between.
Between man of Steel to hear in this journey. I'm like, where does Zach actually live? And I'M just thinking a lot of it is because of what you said to like, he hasn't gotten a fair shot.
And I was going to say before you all started talking, Zach needs to fire his agent.
Seth
00:18:18.342 - 00:18:19.030
Oh, yeah.
Kyle
00:18:19.110 - 00:18:25.548
He keeps getting him jobs where people don't want him. They keep hiring him to do things that they don't want done.
Drew
00:18:25.604 - 00:18:25.884
Yeah.
Kyle
00:18:25.932 - 00:18:30.732
It's like I hire a guy to paint my house red and when he paints it red, I'm like, I wanted green.
Drew
00:18:30.796 - 00:18:31.036
Yeah.
Kyle
00:18:31.068 - 00:18:36.620
You know, he literally. And you saying Rebel Moon. It's like, why does he keep. Like his agent must suck.
Seth
00:18:36.700 - 00:18:37.004
Yeah.
Kyle
00:18:37.052 - 00:18:38.988
They don't want him, but they keep hiring him.
Drew
00:18:39.044 - 00:18:39.324
Yeah.
Kyle
00:18:39.372 - 00:19:03.342
But I, you know, it is hard. And I'm not gonna say I fully dislike his directing style. I'm gonna say I appreciate a lot about it. There's a lot of moments that I like.
But I'm not going to say I love it either. I'm somewhere. What? That's why I'm championing a new thing. And I would love to see him not. Not a superhero movie.
I want to see Zack Snyder go full Zack Snyder. No interference. And I want to. I just need a good read because.
Drew
00:19:03.366 - 00:19:12.810
Right now watch some. Watch the director's cuts of Rebel Moon. Okay, you will. And, and you said you. Hold on. You said you haven't seen.
Kyle
00:19:13.190 - 00:19:14.206
I liked Watchmen.
Drew
00:19:14.238 - 00:19:14.686
You like.
Kyle
00:19:14.758 - 00:19:20.012
I haven't seen Sucker Punch and I did not like 300 at all. I watched it twice in a week and did not like it.
Drew
00:19:20.126 - 00:20:08.676
Watch the director's cuts of rebel moon. I'm 100% going to say it is not for everyone.
But if you can get over the fact that it was originally written as a Star wars movie and just accept it's going to feel like a Star wars knockoff because it was made to be Star wars originally. Ignore that. Let it just be some long form sci fi and enjoy it for what it is.
Or try to at least I think those two movies, you will get the true understanding of what Zack Snyder likes to do.
Now, to your point, because I completely respect and agree with a lot of what you said, I do think it is kind of outlandish to say there's no character development in this movie because the entire first half is nothing but character development.
Seth
00:20:08.748 - 00:20:10.980
Oh, you could have stopped at the entire first half as nothing.
Drew
00:20:11.060 - 00:21:50.398
It's not though. There is so much depth to.
To how he's building these characters and the criticism you just gave it of it being so long and nothing happening for the first half.
That was actually one of the biggest criticisms of Fellowship of the Ring when it first came out, because you look at Fellowship and you look at especially the source material that it's based on, that entire first half of the movie, up until they finish at the Council of Elrond, is nothing but setup for the second half of that movie and two more movies. When you're looking at this as the everything cut, you're getting everything he was gonna think, even thinking about throwing in there.
That first half of the movie is the first 45 minutes to maybe even 30 minutes of a traditionally paced movie of like a two and a half hour long movie. So yeah, it, it feels slower. It feels like not as much is happening.
But again, it's because he's looking at this as Justice League Part one, Justice League Part two, Justice League Part three. And in his mind, when he, when he sat down and wrote the story out, this is part of long form storytelling.
You're gonna expand the traditional beats because technically this entire four hour movie was act one of a three act storytelling piece. So I get it. If long form storytelling in movies is not your thing, that's fine.
But I, that's where I, I completely disagree with you that the entirety of that first two hours is just character development and getting to know the people that we're about to spend three movies with.
Seth
00:21:50.534 - 00:22:10.248
And to your point, in that case, it absolutely worked in that because by about hour two, I was really into the plot. I really enjoyed watching it. Whereas at first I would have no problem after the first sit down, like turning it off and going do something else.
Yeah, by my second or third when I had time to sit down, I was like, oh no, I actually really want to keep watching this.
Drew
00:22:10.304 - 00:22:10.792
Exactly.
Seth
00:22:10.856 - 00:22:32.104
Here's my beef, I guess. Sure is. I feel like it's the job of a director or a movie person, whoever's in charge of making the movie.
Yeah, you need to make a movie where if like you do, you don't want to make it. Where you just assume everyone who watches it is just going to know that this is just setting up for the next couple movies.
And I feel like, well, I mean.
Drew
00:22:32.112 - 00:22:33.720
He was pretty clear about it.
Seth
00:22:33.840 - 00:22:41.322
I feel like especially. Well, I mean, a good movie in a way could stand alone by itself. I feel like, I feel like in.
Drew
00:22:41.346 - 00:22:48.074
My Ship of the Ring, as good of a movie as it is, it's not going to stand by itself because you're going to hit the end and be like, cool, there's more to come.
Seth
00:22:48.162 - 00:23:23.802
But you still enjoyed that movie when the Fellowship of the Ring came out. That was a good one. I mean, we saw that when in theater. We saw the whole series in theaters. It was wonderful.
We were excited for every single movie as it came. We knew it was telling a greater story, but each movie could stand alone and you could see it. I mean, always whenever. When.
When Batman vs Superman came out, when the Justice League movies came out, whenever people were saying, these aren't good movies, the critique is always like, well, they're setting up for better movies. And I feel like with his 10 movie plot, the biggest thing was, oh, it's setting up for a bigger picture.
Drew
00:23:23.866 - 00:23:24.154
Yeah.
Seth
00:23:24.202 - 00:23:29.322
My critique is, do your job as a movie director and give me a good picture that sets up for a.
Drew
00:23:29.346 - 00:23:44.770
Better picture, which I again, can respect the opinion and feel like he started out from a bad place of Warner brothers, sat him down and said, no, no, no, you're not making a Superman movie. You are making a Justice League universe.
Seth
00:23:44.850 - 00:23:45.330
Absolutely.
Drew
00:23:45.410 - 00:23:55.474
And so I agree with you if that. But. But again, that. I don't think that comes down to. He's not good at this. I think he followed his directions to the letter.
Seth
00:23:55.522 - 00:23:56.166
Yeah.
Drew
00:23:56.338 - 00:23:57.438
Setting up a massive.
Seth
00:23:57.534 - 00:24:06.302
Maybe my fault with this movie, then, is that kind of. Maybe what you're. Similar to what you were saying, Kyle, was that the assignment. They picked the wrong person for the.
Kyle
00:24:06.326 - 00:24:08.574
Assignment over and over again.
Drew
00:24:08.742 - 00:24:10.430
I think they picked the wrong assignment.
Seth
00:24:10.510 - 00:24:20.302
Yeah. Yeah, they picked the wrong assignment. And then, then. So right away, when they're like, we want to try to keep up with the Avengers and Marvel.
Yeah, that was strike one. And then they're like, okay, who's the best person to do this? Zack Snyder.
Drew
00:24:20.366 - 00:24:20.654
Yeah.
Seth
00:24:20.702 - 00:24:27.480
Strike two. Strike three was. He said, this is what I want to do. And at first they were like, yes. And then they were like, wait, we don't like it.
Drew
00:24:27.520 - 00:24:27.880
Yeah.
Seth
00:24:27.960 - 00:24:40.552
And so that. So from the start of this project, it's like when you get a new job at a crappy company and you're like, everything sucks.
It's like, well, it's because that was bound to happen.
Kyle
00:24:40.656 - 00:24:42.808
Then they shat on him in the darkest moment of his life.
Drew
00:24:42.864 - 00:24:43.780
Literally, though.
Seth
00:24:44.240 - 00:24:44.872
Absolutely.
Drew
00:24:44.936 - 00:25:23.190
Here is what I will say. We don't have a theatrical cut of his version of the movie. We're just gonna say, fuck you, Justice League.
That is not the theatrical cut of his movie to compare. We had a theatrical cut of Lord of the Rings for each movie, and then we had the extended version.
And I know plenty of people who think the extended versions are too long, the pacing is terrible, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Every complaint. I've heard about the Snyder cut. I've heard about the extended editions of Lord of the Rings.
I think if we had had an actual theatrical cut of this movie from Zack Snyder, the opinions would have been different as far as the pacing and then adding all the extra lore and everything.
Seth
00:25:23.310 - 00:25:27.542
I think they might have been different. And I hope. I mean, I want to be optimistic, but. Yeah, they probably would be.
Drew
00:25:27.566 - 00:25:29.718
Yeah. But we don't know. Ultimately, we just don't know.
Seth
00:25:29.774 - 00:25:36.070
My opinion, based off what I saw with man of Steel and based off what I saw of Batman versus Superman, I'm not so sure.
Drew
00:25:36.190 - 00:25:42.436
Yeah. And that's a difference of opinion because again, I. I think especially with man of Steel, he fucking nailed it.
Kyle
00:25:42.518 - 00:25:43.464
Yeah, I agree.
Drew
00:25:43.632 - 00:26:26.820
And yeah, it's divisive with Batman versus Superman. I enjoyed the story he told. Yeah. I think some things could have been tightened up in places and even lengthen in other places.
But again, I still enjoy the story that he tells there. And then you hit this one. And yeah, it's long. It is a dredge to get through at times. And I'm. I'll be the first one to admit it's.
Yeah, it drags at times, but. But again, it's because I consider it to be the everything cut. Just like the extended edition of Lord of the Rings is.
It's all the little nerdy shit that all the people who love these movies wanted is in there. I wish we had a theatrical version to be able to compare it to, because ultimately we'll just never know.
Seth
00:26:26.860 - 00:26:27.380
We'll never know.
Drew
00:26:27.420 - 00:26:28.148
We'll never know.
Seth
00:26:28.204 - 00:26:38.660
And that's the frustrating part of these movies is it's like anytime you pick up a series on Netflix or whatever, and you know it ended too early, and if you like it, you're like, I know it's gonna end on a no resolution.
Drew
00:26:38.740 - 00:26:39.124
Exactly.
Seth
00:26:39.172 - 00:26:47.546
And that's what's the hardest part about watching this.
These movies is like we were saying with that last scene with the Joker, the post apocalyptic scene, you're like, well, I guess we'll never know where this leads to.
Drew
00:26:47.618 - 00:26:48.074
Exactly.
Kyle
00:26:48.122 - 00:26:50.202
It's the biggest disappointment of all of it is not knowing.
Seth
00:26:50.266 - 00:26:56.458
Yeah. And. And you know what? So I think. And I think this is how I'm going to end my rant, because I do try to end positively. I do try.
Kyle
00:26:56.514 - 00:26:59.722
You're good at that. That's how when you live your life a quarter mile at a time.
Seth
00:26:59.826 - 00:27:39.838
Absolutely. Absolutely. In my. In my podcast, we do the same thing where we will. I will shit on something a lot. And then I'll be like, but this is a good thing.
We can come from it. And I think that's important because why live life negatively? You know? I. I think, oh, my gosh. I was like, I'm. End pause. Oh, okay. I remember.
I remember. I was like, what was I going to say? That was nice? I don't remember. I remember it now, though. This should just be known for everyone.
If anyone's listening to this and they're like, wow, Drew really doesn't like these movies. That's not necessarily true. I love superhero movies. I love the superhero genre.
I watch everything that comes out that's about any superheroes, and I enjoy it. I enjoyed watching these movies. I enjoyed them when they were in theaters. I've enjoyed watching them here.
Drew
00:27:39.894 - 00:27:40.130
I enjoy.
Seth
00:27:40.160 - 00:27:58.542
I will admit, if I never have to sit down for four hours. And, I mean, I feel like I've gotten all the enjoyment I can out of the Snyder cut. But I was so excited the first two times I watched it.
I think we're in a position right now where we're asking tough questions. We're being a little bit more critical, but that's part of the fun of it. These were still good, entertaining movies.
Drew
00:27:58.606 - 00:27:59.182
Yeah.
Seth
00:27:59.326 - 00:28:25.046
I still was excited to see them in theaters.
And it was the best thing about doing the rewatch for the justice and Justice League was it kind of brought me back the nostalgia of, remember how hyped I was for these movies to come out, so.
And I think part of my frustration with Snyder's versions of these movies or these stories is I am so into the originals that I have a hard time looking at what I'm seeing and being like, yeah, that's good.
Drew
00:28:25.118 - 00:28:36.812
Yeah. And again, yeah, I think that at that point, it just all comes down to taste. So I don't think you're wrong. I just.
I look at things differently because it is something that I. I just love. I do love the way he tells his stories.
Kyle
00:28:36.876 - 00:28:38.380
He's just less wrong than you are.
Drew
00:28:38.420 - 00:28:39.532
Yeah, I didn't say that. I'm just.
Kyle
00:28:39.556 - 00:28:41.080
I'm just fucking with you. I didn't say that.
Seth
00:28:41.700 - 00:28:48.636
We are living in a world where two people with completely different opinions about a movie can sit down and talk about it.
Drew
00:28:48.708 - 00:28:49.084
Exactly.
Seth
00:28:49.132 - 00:28:53.612
And nobody has to fight or get murdered. And imagine if we went, except for.
Drew
00:28:53.636 - 00:28:55.836
Entertainment, for Yalls Entertainment.
Seth
00:28:55.948 - 00:29:03.698
Imagine if. If we did this with other serious life issues and more than movies.
What if two people of different opinions could sit down and have a conversation and just hear from each other?
Drew
00:29:03.804 - 00:29:04.998
That's impossible.
Kyle
00:29:05.174 - 00:29:29.638
Speaking of massive disappointments, my penis. Well, that's a given. That's a given. I'm not pushing. I'm not pushing anything over here.
Speaking of disappointments, you probably have a friend that is an incredible disappointment. Horrible at their job. No friends, no prospects, no women, no men, whatever they are.
And they just wish that someone would release a director's cut of their life.
Drew
00:29:29.694 - 00:29:30.070
Yeah.
Kyle
00:29:30.150 - 00:29:45.126
So you could see the real footage, the good footage that got left out the first time they tried it. Send that friend this podcast because they just need a second, maybe third, fourth chance, maybe four releases later. This friend is acceptable.
Yeah, yeah.
Seth
00:29:45.158 - 00:29:53.446
Maybe, maybe. Maybe if you knew them for another 20 years, you would like them. Maybe, like, they're rough right now, but you just wait till the end of their life.
Every great.
Kyle
00:29:53.518 - 00:29:58.966
Every time they get rejected on Tinder's. Like, hold on, let me add this scene that I left on the cutting room floor and maybe you'll like this one better.
Drew
00:29:59.038 - 00:29:59.382
Yeah.
Seth
00:29:59.446 - 00:30:03.834
They would love this podcast episode. It's like we're talking about them as if they were a movie.
Drew
00:30:03.942 - 00:30:04.770
Kind of. Yeah.
Kyle
00:30:04.850 - 00:30:07.970
I only have one question this time because I feel like.
Drew
00:30:08.010 - 00:30:08.274
Okay.
Kyle
00:30:08.322 - 00:30:09.762
Because we have so much.
Drew
00:30:09.866 - 00:30:10.194
Yeah.
Kyle
00:30:10.242 - 00:30:15.990
You know, between. Is it just me or does anyone hate women and horses more than Steppenwolf?
Drew
00:30:17.850 - 00:30:21.202
Holy Joss Whedon.
Kyle
00:30:21.266 - 00:30:23.650
Yeah, that's true.
Seth
00:30:23.730 - 00:30:26.562
He was working on some issues over there with the Amazons.
Drew
00:30:26.626 - 00:30:27.698
Oh, my God.
Kyle
00:30:27.794 - 00:30:36.190
I don't know. It was hard. Even though he's. I say I don't like cgi, but it was some reason that did actually get to be like seeing a beat up these women.
And then the horses.
Drew
00:30:36.270 - 00:30:37.534
Yeah. He beats the.
Kyle
00:30:37.622 - 00:30:40.810
Out of those horses. He's slinging them around, throwing them around.
Drew
00:30:41.190 - 00:30:53.422
You compare that scene in Justice League versus this. And here's. Here is something I will say. Zack Snyder gets right 100 of the time. He knows how to be visceral with his bad guys.
Seth
00:30:53.486 - 00:30:53.774
Yeah.
Drew
00:30:53.822 - 00:31:00.174
He knows how to make you absolutely hate for all the right reasons. Hate his bad guys.
Kyle
00:31:00.302 - 00:31:00.830
Yeah.
Drew
00:31:00.910 - 00:31:12.982
Like, he. He just.
He knows how to take that to not even the extreme, but just like the furthest point to get where it's not totally uncomfortable, but just uncomfortable enough that you dislike that person.
Kyle
00:31:13.086 - 00:31:13.510
Yeah.
Seth
00:31:13.590 - 00:31:15.478
And each of his battle scenes.
Drew
00:31:15.574 - 00:31:16.662
Oh, my God.
Seth
00:31:16.806 - 00:31:26.390
I mean, told a story. I mean, in my other podcast, we talk about how car chase scenes, it actually would take so much work to make a good car. Like a car chase scene.
Drew
00:31:26.430 - 00:31:26.902
Absolutely.
Seth
00:31:26.966 - 00:31:30.838
Each moment feels like it's telling a story, but just with engines in action, you know?
Kyle
00:31:30.894 - 00:31:31.126
Yeah.
Seth
00:31:31.158 - 00:31:37.024
And you Know the, the scene where he's fighting those Amazons, like, that was a really well put together scene.
Kyle
00:31:37.072 - 00:31:38.144
It was good.
Seth
00:31:38.232 - 00:32:00.816
I remember one point thinking, like, look, they have no chance of winning, but they are. Yeah, they're doing their best. Like, they're. Like there was. There was. They were trying different things. There was.
It wasn't just a monotonous course change scene. And even, Even the ending scene, when they, when they do stop them, I mean, I do realize that Superman is doing most the heavy lifting.
Drew
00:32:00.848 - 00:32:01.360
He's not, though.
Seth
00:32:01.400 - 00:32:06.602
But really, not everyone, Everyone had a part to play in the scene saving the day.
Drew
00:32:06.706 - 00:32:13.306
Superman didn't even kill him. It was Wonder Woman and. And Aquaman who actually ended up killing him. Yeah, like, that was.
Seth
00:32:13.378 - 00:32:15.210
Superman doesn't kill. Except for Zod.
Drew
00:32:15.290 - 00:32:36.580
Yeah, that was my favorite part, honestly, comparing the two was that clearly in the Justice League version, Superman saves the day. In this one, Superman just gives them an extra edge. He's not the guy who comes in and fixes everything. He comes in.
And they legitimately all work as a.
Seth
00:32:36.620 - 00:32:44.356
Team in that last moment, which is what it's about. Like that, you know, multiple times they're saying it's the team where the team. You know, like, so.
Drew
00:32:44.428 - 00:32:50.228
And the fact that it's Wonder Woman who cuts off his head and not Superman who punches him and that's what defeats him.
Seth
00:32:50.284 - 00:32:50.660
Yeah.
Drew
00:32:50.740 - 00:32:58.468
That was something that I absolutely loved. And to me, that's so much better storytelling than what Joss Whedon tried to do.
Seth
00:32:58.524 - 00:32:59.156
Absolutely.
Kyle
00:32:59.268 - 00:33:10.372
That moment made me. That's where I was like, I. I just feel like there's somewhere in there, Zack Snyder, like, could be a great director.
That last three quarter, that last quarter of the movie, I was like, that's what I want.
Seth
00:33:10.396 - 00:33:11.172
Yeah, absolutely.
Drew
00:33:11.236 - 00:33:11.620
Yeah.
Seth
00:33:11.700 - 00:33:17.400
I just. I just. Part of me is like, why can't we get more of this sooner?
Drew
00:33:17.900 - 00:33:18.324
Yeah.
Kyle
00:33:18.372 - 00:33:19.780
Fair. So, yeah, I feel the same way.
Seth
00:33:19.820 - 00:33:48.288
Yeah, I do. It's interesting. I do feel like if. And this isn't a critique, it's just a statement. Batman does seem to be like the central protagonist of it all.
Like, I felt like bat. I mean, I felt like. Whereas Josh was definitely trying refocus us on Superman. To me, when you put more.
So Donna, Superman, or, excuse me, dawn of Justice, Batman versus Superman. And then with this. I mean, I do feel like Batman's the. Where the most the focus on. It's not a problem.
Drew
00:33:48.344 - 00:33:48.960
But it's just.
Seth
00:33:49.080 - 00:33:49.856
But it's like.
Drew
00:33:49.928 - 00:34:08.796
Well, I mean, Batman is considered to be the leader of the Justice League just because Even in the Animated Series, not every character is in every episode. Some episodes will focus on specific characters. But it's like ultimately Batman's the. The one who brought everyone together to make the team.
Seth
00:34:08.868 - 00:34:37.622
He brought them together. But then Superman was the leader. And Batman's biggest thing was he eventually left the Justice League because he wanted to. He didn't like. He.
He saw the alternate universe with the Justice Lords, which was the injustice storyline, and he saw how bad they were, and he's like, I don't want to be an all powerful over the world thing. So he left it. And then one of the best lines of dialogue in that series is when someone says, well, what.
What happens if Superman gets out of line and if we have to put him down? And then Superman is like, that's when you call Batman.
Drew
00:34:37.686 - 00:34:45.110
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't know, I feel like that vibe definitely comes through in this version of the story.
Seth
00:34:45.230 - 00:34:56.512
Yeah, it was. It was cool to see, but. And I. But if. If we're. It was. I loved what they did with Super Batman. I loved what they did with Batman.
I hated what they did with the Flash.
Kyle
00:34:56.686 - 00:34:58.252
Yeah, I mean, that.
Drew
00:34:58.356 - 00:35:09.148
That's fair. I. I didn't hate it. It's. It's definitely not the best version of the Flash out there.
I significantly like him better in this version than Justice League.
Seth
00:35:09.204 - 00:35:11.580
We get more character development of him and all the other characters.
Drew
00:35:11.660 - 00:35:12.204
Yeah.
Seth
00:35:12.332 - 00:35:14.652
We get more stuff that makes him a little bit more redeemable.
Drew
00:35:14.716 - 00:35:18.412
Yeah. But I can totally understand why it wouldn't hit with you the way it.
Seth
00:35:18.436 - 00:35:34.916
Went with other people in his actual movie. I ended up liking him better and I realized the reason why is because it's a time travel movie.
So he goes back and interacts with his past self, and half of his good dialogue is him commenting on how annoying his past self is. And I'm like, oh, so he gets it. He gets it. And that makes me like him better.
Drew
00:35:34.988 - 00:35:56.524
You know, which I would have been interested to see what his eventual development would have been through Justice League 2 and 3, because in the nightmare sequence at the very end or the premonition, you really do see him start to get more serious. Like, all the characters in that little five minute moment are so different than they were in the rest.
Seth
00:35:56.612 - 00:36:03.788
They've seen. They've lived through some stuff. Man, that's. That's. And it's like I was saying, like that that would. I want to see that movie, but we never will.
Drew
00:36:03.844 - 00:36:04.652
Exactly.
Kyle
00:36:04.796 - 00:36:05.836
Rando.
Drew
00:36:05.948 - 00:36:09.356
Rando, which. I have two quick ones to pop in the Middle.
Kyle
00:36:09.388 - 00:36:27.596
So, yeah, cool. This is.
I tried to find more recent research on this, but according to the most recent articles I can find, Zack Snyder has never seen the theatrical release Justice League. I. I'm the kind of person that's so petty. Like, I would have to go see it so I can. Yeah.
Drew
00:36:27.628 - 00:36:32.428
I mean, when Christopher Nolan tells you to not go see something, you kind of just listen to the King.
Kyle
00:36:32.524 - 00:36:41.212
Yeah.
I mean, if Stanley Kubrick can call Stephen King at 3:00am to on him, I can go see the bad version of my movie and then call Joss Whedon at 3am like, do you believe in God?
Drew
00:36:41.276 - 00:36:41.612
Yeah.
Seth
00:36:41.676 - 00:36:42.396
Maybe he's just.
Drew
00:36:42.468 - 00:36:43.440
Do you bleed?
Seth
00:36:43.860 - 00:37:12.822
Maybe he's more healthy than us. And then that, like, he's like, I know I wouldn't like it. I know I would be bothered by it. And also like it probably.
Also, you know, that movie and that timing of it all was pretty traumatic with what he was dealing with his daughter. So it's like, good for him for not well, I imagine.
I imagine one day when he's old and bored and looking back at life, he's going to find like an old blockbuster dvd, put it in, and he's going to watch it and be like, yeah. Wow, that is total crap.
Kyle
00:37:12.886 - 00:37:13.530
Yeah.
Drew
00:37:13.940 - 00:37:16.520
Yeah, I wouldn't either. I get it.
Kyle
00:37:16.980 - 00:37:33.612
Visually, effects wise, they. Snyder said the most difficult thing about making this movie was Steppenwolf.
He said it was insanely difficult because compared to what was happening at the time, this CGI character had to interact. He said specifically his words. He had to feel stuff and have a backstory.
Drew
00:37:33.676 - 00:37:33.964
Yeah.
Kyle
00:37:34.012 - 00:37:46.980
And he said it was really complex. Although he does give credit to Kieran Hines, who does the voice work. I don't know how much different it was in the. The first one.
I made fun of her feeling old. I feel like an old guy talking into a microphone. I didn't feel that as much here.
Seth
00:37:47.360 - 00:38:02.072
I said this last week. I liked the more character development we had of Steppenwolf in this version. We actually knew his story. We knew why he was doing what he was doing.
Wonder Woman told us a little bit about it in the Justice League one, but you really got to kind of see it.
Drew
00:38:02.256 - 00:38:13.614
Well, they changed his character completely. In the other one, he's a baby dark side. And this one, he's who he is in the comics and the animated.
Seth
00:38:13.662 - 00:38:20.462
Well, I mean, he is a former glorious warrior that messed up and is trying to get his, you know, get.
Kyle
00:38:20.566 - 00:38:22.126
His space daddy back on board.
Seth
00:38:22.198 - 00:38:31.822
Yeah. But I did not. I did not like his Voice change in this one, I felt like it was more like. It was like an electric guitar with like a.
Like, I felt like they were giving him a techno beat to like a.
Drew
00:38:31.846 - 00:38:33.214
Oh, I don't know. I hated it.
Kyle
00:38:33.302 - 00:38:34.510
I almost spit my copy out.
Seth
00:38:34.550 - 00:39:14.034
When you like electric, it sounds like we were going when Pop Goes Punk sound like a cover song. And like, he did look more menacing and badass in this one with all the spikes. And it was cool how like we.
We were talking about this before the podcast went in the last fight. The more he got beat up, the as harder was for him to regain his armor. So like. But I felt like his.
For lack of better words, sorry, Stefan Wolf, if you're listening to this, his patheticness in the Josh version of it added to his character to me. Like he. He was a washed up villain of Apocalypse. Like he. He was a dude trying to get back in good graces with his people. The old ball sack guy. Look.
Drew
00:39:14.122 - 00:39:21.186
But that wasn't. That wasn't the story in Justice League. He's not trying to get anything back other than just get back at her.
Seth
00:39:21.258 - 00:39:26.882
Yeah, well, he lost in order. That was his first and maybe only big loss. Was that the war on Earth.
Drew
00:39:26.946 - 00:39:27.234
Yeah.
Seth
00:39:27.282 - 00:39:33.762
So all this was trying to get retribution so that he. I mean, maybe. And maybe I'm reading it, maybe they never actually said so that he could get back with.
Drew
00:39:33.786 - 00:39:38.366
Oh, no, that's the thing. But Darkseid didn't exist in Justice League.
Seth
00:39:38.438 - 00:39:44.782
In both movies, he was a washed up failure of a bad guy.
Drew
00:39:44.846 - 00:39:45.086
Yeah.
Seth
00:39:45.118 - 00:39:54.910
And he. He was. So he's trying to either get back to Earth, maybe in Justice League, or in addition to that, in the Snyder cut.
He's trying to get back in Darkseid's good graces.
Drew
00:39:54.990 - 00:39:55.390
Yeah.
Seth
00:39:55.470 - 00:40:01.438
So to me, I mean, if Snyder didn't call me and ask my opinions on this. So it's okay that he didn't do this?
Drew
00:40:01.574 - 00:40:02.462
How dare he?
Seth
00:40:02.566 - 00:40:09.624
But I would have kept the old ball sack man look and voice. But all the character development of the Snyder cut.
Drew
00:40:09.792 - 00:40:22.008
Yeah. To each their own. I don't know. I absolutely despise what Joss Whedon did to him. He looked like shit. He didn't look like anything.
He looked like Ant Man. Should have beat him in the first Ant Man.
Seth
00:40:22.064 - 00:40:22.440
Yeah.
Drew
00:40:22.520 - 00:40:25.672
Like, I don't know. There was nothing unique about him whatsoever.
Seth
00:40:25.816 - 00:40:33.304
It would have been interesting if they combined it like. So at the beginning, he was the old ball sack. But then once he got power of the three mother boxes is that's when he became Badass.
Drew
00:40:33.352 - 00:40:34.472
That could have been something cool.
Seth
00:40:34.536 - 00:40:34.824
Yeah.
Drew
00:40:34.872 - 00:40:55.180
I don't know. I, I, I, I just think the way that he was handled in this one was so much better.
Like, like there's no reason for him to be a, like he was in the original one. This one, it's like you can very much feel the weight of everything he's doing is like there's purpose behind it. Finally.
Kyle
00:40:55.840 - 00:40:56.456
Yeah.
Drew
00:40:56.568 - 00:40:56.952
Yeah.
Kyle
00:40:57.016 - 00:41:04.718
My last rando before your Seth. Yeah, that last scene, the premonition scene, because they didn't want him to film anything. They just wanted him to use what he had.
Drew
00:41:04.774 - 00:41:05.054
Yeah.
Kyle
00:41:05.102 - 00:41:16.814
For this cut. He said he was going to film it in his own backyard. So I guess he was going to get a studio set up back there. He was going to get.
And he was going to do it in his own backyard. And Ben Affleck and Jared Leto were game.
Drew
00:41:16.902 - 00:41:17.662
Okay. Yeah.
Kyle
00:41:17.726 - 00:41:18.798
They wanted to do it.
Drew
00:41:18.854 - 00:41:19.310
Yep.
Kyle
00:41:19.390 - 00:41:25.390
And once they were on board and he, he actually talked. Because HBO Max is just as big a part of the story too.
Drew
00:41:25.430 - 00:41:25.742
Yes.
Kyle
00:41:25.806 - 00:41:37.754
One part of that story is that they were, they were, they still are, but they were kind of the fledgling service. They have like 20. They have like 40 of the market share compared to like Netflix and streamers.
Even though it's my favorite, it's the one I will never delete.
Drew
00:41:37.802 - 00:41:38.122
Yeah.
Kyle
00:41:38.186 - 00:41:46.218
So they, they, once Jared and Ben got on board, they're like, okay, fine. And they set up a sound stage and let him film the only thing he filmed extra for this guy.
Drew
00:41:46.314 - 00:41:51.866
So my first rando is going to add on to that. Ben Affleck and Jared Leto were never in the studio together at the same time.
Kyle
00:41:51.938 - 00:41:52.314
Really.
Drew
00:41:52.402 - 00:41:58.606
They were filmed completely isolated and separate. That whole sequence where they're talking to each other, they were not in the same room ever.
Kyle
00:41:58.678 - 00:41:59.330
Wow.
Drew
00:41:59.670 - 00:42:04.094
They were completely separated, doing their thing just with basically them and Zach.
Seth
00:42:04.142 - 00:42:07.982
I guess it kind of makes sense when you think about the cinema. You never see them.
Kyle
00:42:08.006 - 00:42:09.166
Like, it turned out really well.
Drew
00:42:09.238 - 00:42:31.310
There, There are shots where like, like you'll see a dirty shot and it's called a dirty shot when, when someone is in the foreground, but they're not the focus. So the dirty shots where you're looking over Ben Affleck shoulder, it's just him standing in front of green.
Of a green screen and then they flip it and he shoots with, with Jared Leto there. So that's, yeah, that's my first rando is, is. I just love the fact that he made that happen.
Kyle
00:42:31.430 - 00:42:35.294
It's hilarious to me because that's my favorite scene. Of this entire franchise.
Drew
00:42:35.342 - 00:42:36.430
And they were never in the same room.
Kyle
00:42:36.470 - 00:42:37.022
That's insane.
Drew
00:42:37.086 - 00:43:12.642
Yeah. The other rando I have, which, again, this just speaks to the petty bullshit of Warner Brothers, because HBO Max, or.
Yeah, it was HBO Max at the time Max now. They were kind of fully on board with whatever he wanted to do.
Warner Brothers very specifically came to him because that very last scene, Martian Manhunter, was not originally in the movie. It was originally supposed to be Green Lantern. And literally, Warner Brothers said, if you try to use Green Lantern, we will not release this movie.
Seth
00:43:12.706 - 00:43:13.282
Oh, wow.
Drew
00:43:13.346 - 00:43:16.498
We will not let you do anything if you put Green Lantern.
Seth
00:43:16.594 - 00:43:54.740
They are very particular about when you can use certain super. Or at least DC is. I don't know if Warner bro. Where the line is there. But like, that frequently has been an issue with the television shows.
They've wanted to incorporate one superhero, but if the movies are doing it, then they can't. In one of the seasons of Arrow was when Suicide Squad came out.
And in Arrow, they had a very compelling and main storyline involving the Suicide Squad. And. And Deadshot was part of it. And because the Will Smith Dead Suicide Squad movie came out, they had. They ended up killing him off in.
Drew
00:43:54.860 - 00:43:55.800
Oh, wow.
Seth
00:43:56.140 - 00:44:18.260
In Arrow because he was being used in the movie.
And then also back when Smallville was a thing, that was when the Nolan movies were coming out with Batman and they had a Superman story or a Batman storyline coming involved into that in season six. But instead they used Green Arrow because Dark Knight, Dark Knight Rise. Like, they were coming out.
That's always been the way where, like, if there's movies come first. Like, if.
Drew
00:44:18.380 - 00:44:26.760
But the thing was, there was nothing using Green Air or Green Lantern. Like, they literally were just like, no, fuck you. You cannot put Green Lantern in this movie.
Seth
00:44:27.420 - 00:44:36.724
Speaking of Marshall and Martian Manhunter, this was the weirdest scene to me when. Well, first. It's hard. Has a really nice scene when it was like Lois and Martha talking.
Kyle
00:44:36.852 - 00:44:37.620
Oh, Martha.
Seth
00:44:37.700 - 00:44:40.404
And they were. What a beautiful moment.
Drew
00:44:40.532 - 00:44:51.080
Hold on. Sorry. When I was watching that part and. And she knocks the door and Lois is like, who is it? And she goes, martha.
I literally just in the back of my head. Why did you say that?
Kyle
00:44:52.340 - 00:44:55.596
Oh, gosh, that was such a big part of our first podcast.
Seth
00:44:55.708 - 00:45:09.714
Such a. Like, such a tender. I almost said Tinder moment. Like, yeah, they matched up swiped right. And like, well, you've lost a man, I've lost a son.
Let's just, you know. No. So it's such a beautiful moment of her. Them helping each other cope.
Drew
00:45:09.762 - 00:45:10.162
Yep.
Seth
00:45:10.226 - 00:45:14.082
And Then she walks out and turns out it was Martian Manhunter.
Drew
00:45:14.146 - 00:45:22.350
Yeah, that. That was weird for me. I still don't fully understand it other than I guess he was like, well, I have to have a reason that he's in the very end. So.
Seth
00:45:24.570 - 00:45:27.394
How long has he been impersonating Martha?
Drew
00:45:27.522 - 00:45:29.586
That. Well, okay, I think.
Seth
00:45:29.658 - 00:45:32.802
Why did he feel the need to get that in detail with Lois?
Kyle
00:45:32.866 - 00:45:34.910
And I had no idea who the fuck that was.
Drew
00:45:35.450 - 00:45:48.080
So here is. Is my theory. But I have nothing to base this on other than just. Just man of steel, BVs and this.
My assumption is he has always been living as the General.
Seth
00:45:48.380 - 00:45:52.692
Oh yeah, because that's right. He turned into the General afterwards. He was a General in man of Steel.
Drew
00:45:52.756 - 00:46:02.996
That is my assumption is in man of Steel and BvS, whenever that character shows up. That is actually Martian Manhunter just trying to live on Earth but have a little bit of influence.
Seth
00:46:03.108 - 00:46:06.628
He was kind of addicted to Superman about being an alien. I feel like a little.
Drew
00:46:06.684 - 00:46:15.136
He was so. And again, that's just my head cannon. That's my theory. I have no justification for that. What, other than he turns into the General?
Seth
00:46:15.208 - 00:46:16.608
Yeah, that works for me.
Drew
00:46:16.664 - 00:46:22.240
But I am not even going to begin to try to justify why he turned into Martha. Maybe he just needed information. I don't.
Seth
00:46:22.320 - 00:46:33.536
I mean, I get. I mean, I get how he could do it. He can read mine, so you can understand how.
But like, that's going to make a really awkward next interaction with Lois and Martha when she comes over and hugs her like, thanks again for that great talk.
Drew
00:46:33.608 - 00:46:33.904
Yeah.
Seth
00:46:33.952 - 00:46:35.296
And she's like, what great talk?
Drew
00:46:35.368 - 00:46:40.946
Yeah. That was something I absolutely didn't understand. And I'm not even going to try to defend because I just don't know. I have no clue.
Seth
00:46:40.978 - 00:46:42.802
We need a part 11 of the same.
Drew
00:46:42.906 - 00:46:43.666
Yeah.
Kyle
00:46:43.858 - 00:46:48.882
As a. As the non comic canon guy, that scene made no sense to me.
Drew
00:46:48.906 - 00:46:49.106
Yeah.
Kyle
00:46:49.138 - 00:46:57.714
I had no idea who Martian Manhunter was. I've at least heard of a lot of these characters, even though I haven't read them. I've at least heard. Yeah, I had no idea who I.
Drew
00:46:57.722 - 00:47:08.656
Was looking at, honestly. Martian Manhunter is actually one of the, like, bigger members of the Justice League.
He's introduced in the very first episode of the Animated Series, so I didn't realize that either.
Seth
00:47:08.768 - 00:47:14.176
And he's got some. He would have been a good person to have in the. For this because, like, he's got some pretty awesome powers.
Drew
00:47:14.208 - 00:47:14.704
He does.
Seth
00:47:14.792 - 00:47:15.840
He's pretty. He's pretty bad.
Drew
00:47:15.880 - 00:47:18.624
He would have been really cool in two and three, except he's afraid of.
Seth
00:47:18.632 - 00:47:19.824
Fire, so that's kind of a problem.
Drew
00:47:19.912 - 00:47:27.312
But also knowing that he was originally supposed to be Green Lantern, that makes even less sense to me. Yeah, like I have. No, again, that's not even something I'm gonna try to justify.
Kyle
00:47:27.376 - 00:47:29.072
They put a red light on the Green Lantern.
Drew
00:47:29.136 - 00:47:31.420
Yeah, there we go.
Kyle
00:47:32.380 - 00:47:34.628
Shall we? Snyder, cut this war card up.
Drew
00:47:34.684 - 00:47:35.300
Let's do it.
Seth
00:47:35.340 - 00:47:35.908
Let's do it.
Kyle
00:47:35.964 - 00:47:38.964
Shall we? Go 20, 000 Justin Justice. Leagues under the Sea.
Drew
00:47:39.012 - 00:47:39.880
Oh, God.
Seth
00:47:41.820 - 00:47:45.812
I'm done. Come on. That was good. That was good.
Kyle
00:47:45.836 - 00:47:48.132
You know why you didn't like it? Because I'm in a league of my own.
Seth
00:47:48.236 - 00:47:48.820
Okay.
Kyle
00:47:48.900 - 00:47:49.444
Yeah.
Drew
00:47:49.572 - 00:47:51.920
You are not an extraordinary gentleman, though.
Kyle
00:47:54.140 - 00:47:57.316
That is true. Especially after two cups of coffee.
Drew
00:47:57.428 - 00:47:58.084
There we go.
Kyle
00:47:58.172 - 00:48:01.032
Gonna. Yeah, let's war.
Drew
00:48:01.136 - 00:48:01.816
Let's do it.
Kyle
00:48:01.888 - 00:48:05.368
As a reminder. Positive. Affirmative. And you're gonna be so glad it's finally over.
Drew
00:48:05.424 - 00:48:06.552
The last one, Snyder.
Kyle
00:48:06.616 - 00:48:07.608
Barely knower.
Seth
00:48:07.704 - 00:48:10.488
Yeah, we didn't give a lot of those last time.
Kyle
00:48:10.544 - 00:48:11.752
Yeah, we. Exactly.
Drew
00:48:11.816 - 00:48:12.856
The only one who gave one.
Seth
00:48:12.928 - 00:48:13.320
I did.
Kyle
00:48:13.360 - 00:48:14.008
Yeah.
Seth
00:48:14.184 - 00:48:16.380
I almost wonder if I should change anyway.
Kyle
00:48:17.200 - 00:48:40.550
Yeah. If you went by the final score of the last one, you would have thought it was the most negative Movie wars of all time.
We try to keep it positive here at Movie Wars. Unless you're Joss Whedon, you racist bastard, you. Yeah, go to hell. Sorry, Joss. And speaking of, is he related to Joss Stone? I'm just kidding.
We don't. Shall we war.
Seth
00:48:40.850 - 00:48:41.690
Let's war it out.
Drew
00:48:41.730 - 00:48:44.138
To remind you. The negative is super bad.
Kyle
00:48:44.274 - 00:48:53.578
Super bad. Top Bill cast. And that would be. Oh, kind of crazy on this one. Henry Cavill, Ben Affleck, Gal Gadot are actually the.
Drew
00:48:53.634 - 00:48:54.778
Yeah, that makes sense to me.
Kyle
00:48:54.834 - 00:48:55.146
Crazy.
Drew
00:48:55.178 - 00:48:59.370
Yeah. No, they're. I mean, Gal Gadot and Ben Affleck are definitely in it the most.
Seth
00:48:59.830 - 00:49:03.678
Gal Gadot's top of my guest. Any movie she's in.
Drew
00:49:03.814 - 00:49:33.800
Here's. Here's the thing, especially comparing it to the last one. This is where you really see all of them actually act like. No one seems tired.
No one seems pissed off to be there. Everyone is. Is going balls to the wall. And I think it speaks to how much they respected Zack Snyder. Yeah, they. They were all in on his vision.
Whether you as a viewer like it or not. They were 100 in. They loved the story he was telling and they wanted to tell it as best as they could with him.
Seth
00:49:33.840 - 00:49:37.992
That must have really sucked for them, that all that with this stuff with the Josh Wheaton, like.
Drew
00:49:38.096 - 00:49:51.238
Well, that's the thing is they came back and he's rewritten the same scene, but a quarter of the length and with worse dialogue. And it's like all of them are just standing around like, what are we doing? Yeah, why are we saying these words?
Kyle
00:49:51.334 - 00:49:53.894
I thought you were just going to do some script polishing. Who are you?
Drew
00:49:53.982 - 00:50:16.854
Like, seriously? So Snyder. Barely know her 100%. They, they all delivered. My favorite comparison is when Superman finally shows up at the very end.
And in the Joss Whedon version, he goes, I have a thing about truth and justice too. But in this one, he stops Cyborg from getting hit with the axe and just goes, not impressed.
Kyle
00:50:16.902 - 00:50:17.590
Yep.
Drew
00:50:17.750 - 00:50:19.126
So fucking good.
Kyle
00:50:19.198 - 00:50:20.662
That was emotional for me, actually.
Drew
00:50:20.766 - 00:50:43.580
Also, the scene with him and Lois Lane in the actual cornfield, not the shitty green screen cornfield that fucking Joss Whedon tried to put together. That moment of the two of him finally gaining all of his memory back. And re.
And another one of my favorite lines that he had was he looks at Lois and his mom and just goes, they called me back for a reason. Then I have to go find out.
Kyle
00:50:43.700 - 00:50:47.228
Corn rash. Yeah. Love it.
Drew
00:50:47.284 - 00:50:49.948
But yeah, Snyder valley. Now we're 100%. They love it.
Seth
00:50:50.084 - 00:51:07.228
Snyder barely knew her. But, but no, I, I agree. I think all three of them did great. I, I, I very much enjoyed seeing Superman in this more so than.
I mean, I had my beef with him and Batman versus Superman, but, like, not this time.
Drew
00:51:07.284 - 00:51:09.084
Can we talk about the black suit for a second?
Kyle
00:51:09.172 - 00:51:10.354
So sexy that.
Drew
00:51:10.492 - 00:51:19.910
So that was a big thing when Justice League came out, was Snyder had kind of hinted that the black suit was going to come into play. And then Joss Whedon just said, fuck it and took it out.
Kyle
00:51:19.950 - 00:51:21.094
And it's so sexy.
Seth
00:51:21.142 - 00:51:30.038
Did they ever go into why he had a black suit? Because there could have. There is a comic relevant reason if they wanted to use it, but I don't know if. Did they cover it in the movie?
Drew
00:51:30.134 - 00:51:34.550
They didn't, but I guarantee you it's the same thing that the comic reason the resurrection suit.
Seth
00:51:34.630 - 00:51:42.502
Well, so it's assuming that he's trying to get stronger and like, so apparently he has a black suit that, like, absorbs sunlight.
Drew
00:51:42.566 - 00:51:44.290
Yeah, it absorbs yellow sun better.
Seth
00:51:44.990 - 00:51:45.770
Yeah.
Drew
00:51:47.070 - 00:51:58.342
Again, this is the everything cut.
They put it in for all the nerdy shit, but there is that moment that wasn't in Justice League where he does fly back up into the stratosphere and absorbs the sunlight, and then that's when he goes and finds Alfred.
Seth
00:51:58.406 - 00:52:04.422
I kind of, I was assuming that was why he had the black suit, but he might have just been in his emo phase. I mean, you just literally died.
Drew
00:52:04.486 - 00:52:22.390
I think it's a little bit of both. But if I remember correctly, it is because. Yeah, it's. It's easier for him to absorb the sunlight when he's wearing the black suit. I do like that.
That armor scene where he's going through the Fortress of Solitude and all the different armors come out, and then that's the one that he picks. Like, it was just such a cool moment armor.
Kyle
00:52:24.810 - 00:52:32.114
I. My only disappointment here. Okay. And I don't have a lot with the top bill cast.
Drew
00:52:32.162 - 00:52:32.790
Yeah.
Kyle
00:52:33.130 - 00:52:55.880
What's funny is I didn't like Batman vs Superman, but I loved Batman in it, if that makes sense. I know it's weird.
I feel that between watching the Justice League and this, I don't ever feel like they let Batman get back to the heights that he was. I just feel like the. Some of the stuff he did in that one and his place in it. Not that I needed him to take over because it was at the.
At the end of the day. I love that. It was cyborg story.
Drew
00:52:55.920 - 00:52:56.184
Yeah.
Kyle
00:52:56.232 - 00:53:07.040
The heart of it. I did love that. I just wanted kind of some of that aggressive, like, some of the stuff Batman did.
And Batman versus Superman is what kept me in that movie. Like that fight scene when he broke that guy's arm.
Drew
00:53:07.120 - 00:53:07.376
Yeah.
Kyle
00:53:07.408 - 00:53:12.560
Well, that was so badass. I just kind of wanted a moment with Batman to go back to that because that was like.
Seth
00:53:12.600 - 00:53:12.816
Yeah.
Kyle
00:53:12.848 - 00:53:14.016
The saving grace for that movie.
Drew
00:53:14.048 - 00:53:17.008
I mean, I kind of felt it when he was fighting the gunners.
Kyle
00:53:17.104 - 00:53:17.968
Yeah. He did.
Drew
00:53:18.104 - 00:53:25.328
Personally, for me. But I do get it. But also, at the same time, remember, everyone's expectation was he was going to go straight into the Batman after that.
Kyle
00:53:25.384 - 00:53:25.712
Yeah.
Drew
00:53:25.776 - 00:53:32.710
So it's like you're introducing the whole team. Everyone has to have their moment. Batman really had his moment in the last movie.
Kyle
00:53:32.790 - 00:53:33.094
Yeah.
Drew
00:53:33.142 - 00:53:39.926
So it's like. And he's about to have an entire movie that is nothing but him. So I could. I could see why. But I do agree with you.
It would have been nice to have a little.
Seth
00:53:39.998 - 00:53:47.126
Just a little bit more aggressive in the Batmobile taking out. All the. Taking out the guy. I mean, he was doing his best against aliens.
Drew
00:53:47.158 - 00:53:51.558
Yeah. Because that is another complaint people have about Batman in the Justice League is he's just a guy.
Seth
00:53:51.654 - 00:53:54.646
But also he was the. I mean, he was the brains behind everything.
Kyle
00:53:54.718 - 00:53:55.046
Yeah.
Seth
00:53:55.078 - 00:54:07.698
And I feel like. I feel like his most.
The most interesting thing about him in the movie was the ethical dilemma between him and Wonder Woman about bringing about Superman. It was such a Batman move to be like, no, we should do it.
Drew
00:54:07.754 - 00:54:08.034
Yeah.
Kyle
00:54:08.082 - 00:54:15.986
And maybe part of it, too, is against human enemies. He's so menacing. But he's. It doesn't really. It's not to scale against parody. Yeah.
Seth
00:54:16.098 - 00:54:16.322
Because.
Drew
00:54:16.346 - 00:54:25.096
Yeah. When you have two literal gods and a guy who's entirely motherbot machine, and then a dude who could go speed a lighter faster.
Seth
00:54:25.128 - 00:54:34.536
But can I just say, there is a scene in one of the Justice League animated series where they're. They're fighting Darkseid. They're fighting. Oh, no, it was in. It was in a movie. That animated movie.
Drew
00:54:34.568 - 00:54:35.192
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Seth
00:54:35.256 - 00:54:58.884
And he's. He's, you know, Superman's fighting Darkseid and getting beat up, or they're even. And Batman's out there doing something.
But then he figures out a way to, like, he hacks Darkseid technology to where he could blow up the entire planet. And he tells, and he goes back to Darkseid and dark side is like, slam. He's like, I could kill you in a second.
He's like, yeah, but you won't, because then I'll blow up your entire planet. And he's like, you couldn't hack into it. And then he tells him his password.
Kyle
00:54:59.012 - 00:54:59.412
Yeah.
Seth
00:54:59.476 - 00:55:05.300
And Darkseid has to let him and the entire rest of the Justice League go because Batman outsmarted, like, the God.
Drew
00:55:05.380 - 00:55:06.484
I love that planet.
Kyle
00:55:06.532 - 00:55:08.292
I love the detective aspects of Batman.
Drew
00:55:08.356 - 00:55:09.108
Yeah.
Kyle
00:55:09.284 - 00:55:13.812
So that was my only thing. I think Gal Gadot deserves, like, all the flowers.
Drew
00:55:13.876 - 00:55:14.440
Yeah.
Kyle
00:55:14.580 - 00:55:25.248
Even in the shittiest Joss, you know, moments where he watered down everyone, she still stuck out. I think she's. You know, it's funny that her background is as a model because she's a very physical actress.
Drew
00:55:25.344 - 00:55:27.296
Well, she was in the Israeli army for three.
Seth
00:55:27.368 - 00:55:28.336
Yes, absolutely.
Kyle
00:55:28.448 - 00:55:40.176
Yes. And I'm in the cyber security industry, and I most like. There's a ton of ex Israeli women in that industry that I've met over the years.
And I'm like, all of them could have been Gal Gadot. Like, they are some tough, tough people. Yeah.
Seth
00:55:40.288 - 00:55:45.522
And part of me. Things like she has experience working in Fascinating and Furious. She doesn't mind it when there's not much of a good plotter.
Drew
00:55:45.586 - 00:55:46.066
Yeah.
Seth
00:55:46.178 - 00:55:48.018
She knows how to work around those things.
Kyle
00:55:48.074 - 00:55:59.474
You know, one of. One of my favorite scenes in. In this movie compared to the justice cup, was the. The terrorists that. That take over. I love that.
And for a moment I was like, well, maybe you don't need Superman, she can do a lot of what he does.
Drew
00:55:59.562 - 00:55:59.922
Yeah.
Seth
00:55:59.986 - 00:56:08.728
I actually looked at. Because I had. At first I had a problem. I was like, she's moving as, like she has super speed. What?
And then I googled and turns out she has like, she is much faster than the normal human.
Kyle
00:56:08.834 - 00:56:09.164
Yeah.
Seth
00:56:09.212 - 00:56:17.788
So like even, even some people might have pointed to that and be like, well, he clearly doesn't know Wonder Woman actually. She's. She's got that kind of speed and flying and stuff like that.
Drew
00:56:17.844 - 00:56:18.268
Yeah.
Seth
00:56:18.364 - 00:56:32.652
I liked that scene.
But if I had to cut part of the movie off, I mean, that scene to me, aside from introducing us to Wonder Woman and a pretty cool just in general scene that might have been one of the ones. Like, if we were going to cut the four hours down would have.
Drew
00:56:32.756 - 00:56:42.650
Sure. And I'm sure it would have been trimmed down in his. His theatrical release. But it was really cool comparing it to Justice League.
I loved how big the stakes were.
Kyle
00:56:42.690 - 00:56:43.002
Yeah.
Drew
00:56:43.066 - 00:57:05.344
Because in the, in that video that I was telling you about that I watched comparing, he was comparing those two scenes specifically.
And he was literally just like, when you're watching the, the Snyder cut version, you're scared for all those kids because of this crazy ass guy who literally isn't trying to take hostages. He's trying. He's gonna kill everybody.
Kyle
00:57:05.392 - 00:57:05.712
Yeah.
Drew
00:57:05.776 - 00:57:12.784
And it's so much. Again, the one thing Zack Snyder will always get right is how to make his villains menacing and visceral.
Kyle
00:57:12.832 - 00:57:13.264
Yeah. Yeah.
Drew
00:57:13.312 - 00:57:16.944
And that was such a gut punch, visceral moment for me.
Seth
00:57:17.032 - 00:57:29.792
I love, I loved how he made Wonder Woman like, as strong as she should be. And that like, I mean, she held her own against Stefan with. I mean, she eventually was the one who.
I mean, but even the one on one fighting, like, she did pretty good. Yeah.
Kyle
00:57:29.856 - 00:57:30.422
Awesome.
Seth
00:57:30.536 - 00:57:53.626
And I just feel like anytime there's female heroes, especially in like a Superman storyline, they're always going to end up being a stronger damsel in distress. Like Superman's. Again, the man's. And. And like, I mean, her big story is like you were saying in the last episode, like we didn't need.
Or maybe it was one of you was saying about like, we didn't need that scene with the lasso or like we didn't need. Like we didn't need the. The random lines that kind of made her less than for like, yeah.
Drew
00:57:53.738 - 00:57:56.858
You know, bullshit sexist remarks. Just Whedon.
Kyle
00:57:56.874 - 00:57:57.242
Right.
Seth
00:57:57.346 - 00:58:03.834
Because like, she is like, that's the kind of stuff that is like out of her character. So she's gonna write us. So Much hate mail.
Kyle
00:58:03.882 - 00:58:04.922
Yeah. She's a badass.
Seth
00:58:04.986 - 00:58:05.274
Yeah.
Kyle
00:58:05.322 - 00:58:28.514
And I did want to give one more thing. I. You know, I feel like caval. Also, one thing I've learned on our social media is that a lot of people don't like this interpretation Superman.
I know you don't. But I will say I don't know why sometimes this happens in movies.
The most emotional moment of this entire episode of all the episodes we've done, was when he takes the sword, the ax, on behalf of Cyborg and says, not impressed.
Drew
00:58:28.602 - 00:58:28.962
Yeah.
Kyle
00:58:29.026 - 00:58:31.650
I don't know why, but that was emotional for me.
Drew
00:58:31.690 - 00:58:32.002
Yeah.
Kyle
00:58:32.066 - 00:58:32.786
It was like this.
Drew
00:58:32.858 - 00:58:35.234
The smile, the grin on his face.
Kyle
00:58:35.322 - 00:58:36.754
And it was a Superman moment.
Drew
00:58:36.802 - 00:58:37.026
Yeah.
Kyle
00:58:37.058 - 00:58:43.874
Because Superman, at the end of the day, when you look at Reeves, the thing that about Reeves was those types of moments. That's what people loved about the Reeves version.
Drew
00:58:43.922 - 00:58:44.194
Yeah.
Kyle
00:58:44.242 - 00:58:45.762
And to me, that was a callback.
Seth
00:58:45.826 - 00:58:46.210
Yeah.
Kyle
00:58:46.290 - 00:58:51.346
To that. And for some reason, I was like, I don't even love this character. I'm not really into Superman. But that.
Seth
00:58:51.418 - 00:58:52.226
That was a cool moment.
Kyle
00:58:52.258 - 00:58:57.458
That was very emotional for me, and I loved it. So huge. Shout out Snyder. Barely know her.
Seth
00:58:57.594 - 00:59:12.830
I feel like Superman in both these versions of J. Justice League grew on me. I. I was like, I could take him or leave him in man of Steel. More so leave him than take him.
I hated him in Batman vs Superman. But then, like, when he showed back up again, death. Death did him some justice.
Drew
00:59:12.910 - 00:59:19.038
I mean, I think it's because those first two movies are about his struggle to understand his place in the world.
Kyle
00:59:19.094 - 00:59:19.422
Yeah.
Drew
00:59:19.486 - 00:59:29.170
And then by this one, after he has fully sacrificed himself for the. The good of humanity. Now that he's back, he knows who he is.
Kyle
00:59:29.210 - 00:59:29.554
Yep.
Drew
00:59:29.602 - 00:59:42.482
And. And I have a.
Again, nothing other than these to base it off of, but I have a very strong feeling that when we would have gotten man of steel 2, he would have had more of that utter confidence vibe that people were looking for.
Seth
00:59:42.586 - 00:59:43.202
Yeah.
Kyle
00:59:43.346 - 00:59:59.940
Supporting cast, it's 1 to 0. Amy Adams, Lois Lane, Gal Gadot. Wait, did she. Did I? Yeah, sorry. Scratch that. Ray Fisher. Oh, Ray Fisher. Jason Momoa, Ezra Miller.
And this is the funniest one to me. Willem Dafoe.
Drew
01:00:00.020 - 01:00:00.468
Yeah.
Kyle
01:00:00.564 - 01:00:09.012
Who was in the justice or was supposed to be in the Justice League. But how do you get. How do you have Willem Dafoe on set and not use his footage?
Drew
01:00:09.076 - 01:00:09.444
Yeah.
Kyle
01:00:09.492 - 01:00:10.644
That's malpractice, dude.
Drew
01:00:10.692 - 01:00:11.668
Joss Whedon's piece of.
Kyle
01:00:11.724 - 01:00:22.884
Oh, Jesse Eisenberg, Jeremy Irons, Diane Lane. Skipping down the list, we got J.K. simmons. And Kieran Hands is the voice of Steppenwolf and Joe Morton, the breeder of cyborgs.
Drew
01:00:22.932 - 01:00:27.584
And don't forget Joe Manganiello in his brief cameo as, as a deathstroke.
Kyle
01:00:27.632 - 01:00:27.952
True.
Drew
01:00:28.016 - 01:00:56.946
Here is something I will say about Jesse Eisenberg in this. So this is something that kind of came in, into my understanding this time around. I think in BVS he was supposed to be actually crazy.
Like, I realized that because his tone at the end of this is vastly different than it was in BVS and I. He literally says that like, you know, because of whatever treatments he went through.
Seth
01:00:57.018 - 01:00:58.594
He got the help he needed, he's.
Drew
01:00:58.722 - 01:01:25.452
Got, he's finally a little more and he, he's slowly turning into that sinister asshole that I think everyone kind of wanted from his character.
So I, I, I, I think the course correction that Zack Snyder made with that character in this moment was probably going to keep carrying through and I think he would have turned into a very menacing character as opposed to just the crazy off the wall guy that he was in.
Seth
01:01:25.476 - 01:01:31.996
The first suit was weird. I don't know that. Yeah, it was, I was like, yeah, but I mean, he just got out of prison. He probably didn't have a lot of.
Drew
01:01:32.068 - 01:01:50.454
It was one of his backup suits. But I, again, I give everyone a Snyder barely knower.
I, I think again, when you have an entire cast who's on board with the story that's being told, as we found out with the entirety of the Crow series, you could just feel the energy from everyone. So I think they all did a really good job.
Kyle
01:01:50.622 - 01:01:51.770
Wicked prayer.
Seth
01:01:52.270 - 01:02:11.206
I, I am divided, but I'm gonna give an, I'm gonna kind of give an overall. Snyder barely know her. I think if I, if we ask, if we asked for each one, I'd, I'd say not to that one. Yes to that one, sure.
But I mean, I really like a lot of those actors and I think maybe my issues was more with their script than him. So.
Kyle
01:02:11.278 - 01:02:11.670
Yeah.
Seth
01:02:11.750 - 01:02:13.414
Snyder barely know her.
Kyle
01:02:13.582 - 01:02:24.274
Yeah. I'm glad you brought up that.
Even though I kind of said Jesse Eisenberg, very small amount of him here, everything he does here is how I would have envisioned it. I love that conversation he has on the yacht.
Drew
01:02:24.322 - 01:02:24.690
Yeah.
Kyle
01:02:24.770 - 01:02:34.978
So I actually complete turnaround there. I still can't believe I actually, there's nothing special about what Willem Dafoe does here.
I just still can't believe that they brought Willem Dafoe in and didn't use him.
Drew
01:02:35.034 - 01:02:36.306
It's because he's an Aquaman.
Seth
01:02:36.338 - 01:02:36.546
Yeah.
Kyle
01:02:36.578 - 01:02:36.882
Yeah.
Seth
01:02:36.946 - 01:02:37.362
Bigger.
Kyle
01:02:37.426 - 01:02:40.306
Okay. Character But I just love seeing him again.
Drew
01:02:40.378 - 01:02:40.610
The.
Kyle
01:02:40.650 - 01:02:50.406
The only thing that would keep me. I'm still gonna go Snyder, barely know her. But I still can't believe the J.K. simmons stuff still felt less energetic here. I don't know why.
Like both versions equally unenergetic.
Drew
01:02:50.438 - 01:02:58.486
But I mean, there's no difference between the two versions other than editing. Like, they, they didn't. They didn't add anything with him and Justice League. So it's all the same stuff.
Kyle
01:02:58.598 - 01:03:06.214
Yeah, but I still go Snyder, barely know her. Good job, everybody. Good job. Supporting guest 20, 000 Justice Leagues under the Sea.
Drew
01:03:06.342 - 01:03:07.350
You already use that one.
Kyle
01:03:07.390 - 01:03:08.278
Did it work this time?
Drew
01:03:08.334 - 01:03:09.830
No. Totally not at all.
Kyle
01:03:09.870 - 01:03:17.238
I need a new life writing. It's 2 to 0. We barely know her. Let's go. Zack Snyder here.
Drew
01:03:17.294 - 01:03:21.804
They always list they didn't write the script. He wrote the story. He did not have any involvement in writing the script.
Kyle
01:03:21.852 - 01:03:25.900
Oh, that's the only, only writer they have here? Well, they have Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster.
Drew
01:03:25.980 - 01:03:27.884
Chris Torero is the one who wrote the script.
Kyle
01:03:27.932 - 01:03:30.492
This must be an error on IMDb really, because.
Seth
01:03:30.596 - 01:03:32.780
Let's write them. Look, let's write to them.
Drew
01:03:32.900 - 01:04:33.268
Here's the thing. This is going to get a squeak by for me as far as Snyder, barely know her. Ultimately, I do enjoy the story that is told.
And I do think there is more good than bad when it comes to the script. But as I said with. With bvs, I. I can point to several moments where I'm just like, eh, didn't really do it for me the way that I really wanted it to.
But I, I do think even if it's just barely the good completely outweighs the bad. And it's mostly those moments we keep talking about, like when Superman takes the ax. Like when.
When you have Wonder Woman really explaining the history of. Of why Darkseid and Steppenwolf are coming after. I do love the addition of the. The anti life equation.
So ultimately I do give it a Snyder barely know her. But. And I would have to point it out as I'm watching, there were definitely times where I was like, this wasn't the best.
Seth
01:04:33.324 - 01:05:29.528
But yeah, whatever, I'm gonna give it a super bad. I'm gonna say that I enjoyed it because I just enjoy everything superhero.
Like, it was fun to watch, especially the first time, but there are so many different versions of this type of story that like when I compare it to the other ones or when I talk about like, if what comes to mind. Well, just any time they've incorporated Darkseid into a plot. It's been done better.
And then if we're talking the injustice, like super evil, Superman and all that, that's been done better. If they were talking. I mean, we did. We barely got to see the Injustice League. That would have been cool. But, like, so just when I look at.
I just have to compare it to other versions of the same story. And then I have to say, I enjoy those better when I look at. I mean, I'm gonna point again. The Flash. Yeah.
I did not like their interpretation of the Flash, but there was plenty of things that I did enjoy. But.
Drew
01:05:29.664 - 01:05:30.824
So it's a squeak under.
Seth
01:05:30.912 - 01:05:31.640
It's a squeak under.
Drew
01:05:31.680 - 01:05:32.300
Yeah.
Seth
01:05:33.280 - 01:05:34.968
But I'm gonna have to go super bad.
Drew
01:05:35.024 - 01:05:35.780
That's fair.
Kyle
01:05:36.570 - 01:05:41.586
You know, these categories are so hard when you watch a movie that you saw another version of.
Drew
01:05:41.658 - 01:05:42.034
Yeah.
Kyle
01:05:42.082 - 01:06:00.018
You know, it's so. It really is. It's hard. So what I'll say is, compared to Justice League, incredible improvements across the board. Miles.
And not compared to man of Steel, though. Man of Steel to me is the tightest, most precise.
Drew
01:06:00.114 - 01:06:00.834
Yeah.
Kyle
01:06:00.962 - 01:06:12.310
Thing in this whole franchise, in my opinion. Cool. I don't. The. Like, I said, the lap from cyborg on, when we really dive into cyborg story. That Onward hooked me.
Drew
01:06:12.350 - 01:06:12.662
Yeah.
Kyle
01:06:12.726 - 01:06:23.286
But I had to get through a lot of exposition. I know you liked. You talked about the story of. Of Darkseid when they're. When Wonder Woman's talking. I'm feeling a lot of exposition at the beginning.
Yeah. There's.
Seth
01:06:23.318 - 01:06:25.094
There's two hours worth, if we're being honest.
Kyle
01:06:25.142 - 01:06:34.858
A lot of exposition with moments. And here's the thing. What I'll say is that, like, this is why I want Snyder to get a clean shot with no interference.
Because I see all these moments, but I'm like, there's a lot of filler.
Drew
01:06:34.954 - 01:06:35.706
Yeah.
Kyle
01:06:35.898 - 01:06:44.922
I'm just not loving. I hate tons of exposition. And I already feel like I'm. I'll be honest, I feel alienated as the non comic book guy.
They didn't make this for people that don't read the comics.
Drew
01:06:44.986 - 01:06:45.274
Yeah.
Kyle
01:06:45.322 - 01:07:04.434
The Martian Martian Manhunter is an example where I see him transform and like, what the. And I have no idea who he is. Why was he. Think about it. Think about it. As a non comic book. I'm like, why? Yeah, there's just. But there's.
There's a lot of decisions here. And I. And I do give him a bit of a bogey because of how they treated him.
And also the fact this is Covid and he's he's like, there's the everything version.
Drew
01:07:04.482 - 01:07:07.698
Everything's gonna have all of the weird nerdy.
Kyle
01:07:07.874 - 01:07:17.202
But it felt inaccessible at times. And I just hate law. I hate justifying the story through long exposition. So I do go super bad, but I do want to say it's insane improvement.
Drew
01:07:17.266 - 01:07:17.554
Yeah.
Kyle
01:07:17.602 - 01:07:27.074
Over the Justice League. So directing Zack Snyder. No Justice League here. It's one. It's two to one.
Drew
01:07:27.162 - 01:07:41.102
I mean, so look, knowing that he didn't write the script, because I will say a lot of people complain that his scripts don't flesh things out enough. None of these have been his scripts. He did not write any of these three movies. So let's put that aside.
Kyle
01:07:41.166 - 01:07:41.790
Yeah.
Drew
01:07:41.950 - 01:08:16.676
The script that he had, we're just gonna assume that's what he was given and that's what he's gonna go with. Cool. What he was handed. I think he took everything to a 10.
I think he put his heart and his soul into giving us the performances that everyone gave us, into taking the writing and, and, and expanding it to where it needed to be to have a great time watching this movie. I think he did his job, and I think it really does all come to a head when we do see the future dream that that Bruce Wayne.
Kyle
01:08:16.708 - 01:08:17.652
Has at the very right.
Drew
01:08:17.756 - 01:08:25.052
Like, I think that really sums up his vision and what he was trying to do. So I give it a Snyder because barely know her.
Seth
01:08:25.236 - 01:08:38.876
I'll also give it a Snyder. Barely knower. I'll say my personal opinion on, like, I, I feel like he does.
My problem with all of his slow motion is if you do that for every single scene, it loses its impact. For the impactful scene.
Drew
01:08:38.908 - 01:08:39.292
Sure.
Seth
01:08:39.396 - 01:08:48.444
And I feel like that on all the movies I saw him, and I mean, like, literally when this one opened up with a slow mo scene, I was like, are you kidding me? That was so cool, though.
Drew
01:08:48.612 - 01:08:50.476
Oh, that moment would have been cool.
Seth
01:08:50.508 - 01:09:45.670
If, if we hadn't seen two movies of the. It's. Listen, it's like doing this, there's almost no slow motion.
It's like going to a comedy show and hearing the comedian do the exact same awesome joke. At some point, you're going to be like, I know it. You know? Now here's why I gave him a Snyder. Barely knower.
I love to see how much it seems like the cast was behind him on this. Like when you guys were talking about that extra scene he did, and they were like, yeah, we'll just go to your backyard and do it. Like, that's cool.
I, I if I mean, it feels like, he had to go through the ringer for this one. And like, I mean, he's just like, what a story. And like, and then when you look at, you know, non storyline related things and you just.
I mean the action sequences, the visualness of everything, like, there's so many things that he does well and the fact that he has a specific style that we can point to. And just like with good artists, you're like, well, that's clearly a Van Gogh.
You can look at this movie and be like, that's clearly, clearly a Snyder. So I'm gonna go with Snyder. Barely know her. It's okay if it's not my style.
Kyle
01:09:45.750 - 01:09:46.326
Yeah, yeah.
Seth
01:09:46.358 - 01:09:50.865
But like, but he did his job. He did it well and his people seem to appreciate him.
Kyle
01:09:50.937 - 01:10:20.042
Yeah, yeah. I, again, I keep going back to this. I want to see Zack Snyder get a clean shot at a movie without getting his ass handed to him by the studio.
Because I see, I see bits and pieces of things I love and I do. Even though it's not nest. Like you're kind of saying it's not my style, I do love original styles.
I do like seeing a guy that does something that no one else really does. And I've seen people try to copy. I feel like Frank Miller's tried to copy it. Like people try to copy.
No one really does that slow saturation like him. Yeah, it's okay.
Seth
01:10:20.106 - 01:10:21.274
We don't need people to.
Kyle
01:10:21.362 - 01:10:26.506
Yeah, it is. It can't be a little override. I do like it, like for example, when flash touches the sword back.
Seth
01:10:26.578 - 01:10:27.242
That was cool.
Kyle
01:10:27.306 - 01:11:10.822
That was a good application. But there are moments where it's overdone. But my thing is this is, this is the cut that Snyder wanted to put out into the world.
Like you said, it's the everything cut. I don't see a complete vision here. I want what I see in the last half of the movie. I'm like, that's a movie. I want the premonition.
Just, just the premonition alone. That's a movie. I want, I want that in the first half and, and not to be.
Sound like a dick, but if you're gonna ask for four, over four hours of my time, it better be. There better be some completed story. And it's really hard to make a four hour movie. It's. Let's just get that out there.
Deer Hunter is almost four hours and that is considered a masterpiece. And that is a hard movie to sit through, a four hour movie. Irishman, same thing. I'm a Scorsese fanboy.
Drew
01:11:10.886 - 01:11:12.070
Yeah, I still haven't seen that.
Kyle
01:11:12.110 - 01:11:41.110
You need he. That should have been shorter. Asking four hours of my time. Everything cut or not is a lot. It's not a complete film. The first half is. Is overwrought.
The second half is awesome. I. I give it a. A. A super bad, unfortunately, because I. Like I said if that last half, it gives me hope that Snyder's the man in some ways, but I.
This was too. 4 hours is too much of my time, sir. But you guys won anyway. You both went for it, so. Hey, three. Look at you, cuties.
Drew
01:11:42.210 - 01:11:43.110
We agree.
Seth
01:11:43.650 - 01:11:45.674
Is that the first time on an episode?
Kyle
01:11:45.802 - 01:11:52.474
Yeah, y'all definitely didn't agree on the. On the Batman versus Superman one. I. I just edited that one. Not a lot of agreement. This. This was the. Hey, couch.
Seth
01:11:52.522 - 01:11:54.314
Yeah, sorry. But also like.
Drew
01:11:54.402 - 01:11:56.470
But also greater than also fuck you.
Seth
01:11:57.890 - 01:12:06.106
I. I am such a people pleaser. I left that day feeling bad. I was like. I. I just like. I. I knew. I. I was like, I feel like I should apologize to someone.
Kyle
01:12:06.178 - 01:12:07.430
I felt the same way.
Drew
01:12:08.210 - 01:12:17.182
I love how we finished. We. We stopped recording. And he's just like, are we good? And I'm like, dude, yes. The. The whole point is for entertainment. God damn well.
Kyle
01:12:17.206 - 01:12:39.038
And you pushing me into movies that I usually wouldn't want to talk about has. Has put actually pulled the negative out. Like when we're talking about Stallone movies, it's easy for me to cause. But you put me in a Superman movie.
I'm like, I don't know what to do with my hands. Three to one. We barely know we're right now. 20,000. I'm just gonna keep putting it out there till someone laughs.
Drew
01:12:39.214 - 01:12:39.566
It'll.
Seth
01:12:39.598 - 01:12:41.438
It'll something. Someone will appreciate it.
Kyle
01:12:41.494 - 01:12:47.662
It what's in front of us. Cinematography, production design, sound, costumes, editing. Oh, and we got to talk about the score.
Drew
01:12:47.806 - 01:13:08.558
So here is the thing. The score a thousand times better than Danny Elfman's.
However, my biggest complaint with the score is anytime Wonder Woman does anything, I'm like, oh, my God. Even I was just like, bro, tone it down.
Kyle
01:13:08.614 - 01:13:10.062
It sticks out like a sore thumb.
Seth
01:13:10.126 - 01:13:11.010
It dome.
Drew
01:13:12.580 - 01:13:23.004
But that is my only complaint with the score is, is if they had toned that back, if there had been. You could even still had the motif in there, just not with the vocal. Could have been cool.
Kyle
01:13:23.052 - 01:13:27.900
Imagine if you had a friend that every time they walked in a room, it'd be like, shut up.
Drew
01:13:27.940 - 01:13:29.720
I'm gonna do that every time I see you now.
Seth
01:13:30.900 - 01:13:49.808
But they reference that. And so one of my favorite YouTube series is Pitch meetings where they. It's one guy, Ryan George, just talking, acting like he's giving a pitch movie.
And so he's doing it for Justice League. Every time we met, every time Wonder Woman's in the scene, we're going to play this song from his phone.
And then literally, as he continues to talk about the movie, anytime he says Wonder Woman, he pulls his phone up to the microphone and play it.
Drew
01:13:49.864 - 01:13:50.608
Oh, my God.
Seth
01:13:50.704 - 01:13:53.620
It's a good joke if you go check it out. If not. This is useless.
Drew
01:13:53.960 - 01:14:53.816
Outside of that, though. A. I love. I love the fact that he shot the entire movie in IMAX format.
It is a damn shame that it has not been widely released in imax because that square format is something I personally absolutely love. I hate when, like, Christopher Nolan will swap between aspect ratios.
I just, for, for the love of God, want him to stick with the IMAX ratio for one movie. Just the entirety of one movie. Love that about this though. Absolutely.
Outside of the Wonder Woman motif, I think the score is a thousand times better. The visuals are incredible. I know the slow motion thing, some people think it's overdone. But that opening scene sequence of just.
You're brought right back to that moment at the end of bvs. You see the shock wave of Superman dying hit the entire world. And that's what wakes up the mother boxes. Like, absolutely love it.
I give it absolutely a Snyder Barely Knower.
Kyle
01:14:53.848 - 01:14:54.648
What do you think?
Seth
01:14:54.784 - 01:15:00.296
I'm just thinking about that scene. They didn't need to put the Snyder cut. When they showed you that scene, I was like, I freaking know.
Kyle
01:15:00.368 - 01:15:01.192
I see that.
Seth
01:15:01.216 - 01:15:24.270
It's fine. No, so I'm gonna give it a Snyder Barely Knower. I think everything is fantastic. I mean, even the. Even the visuals. Ness. Even I.
The only problem I have is with the editing. They. I mean, whereas Justice League cut out too much, I feel like.
And I know that we can't judge this on a completely fair scale because we're seeing kind of like, well, this is what I had figured out.
Drew
01:15:24.310 - 01:15:24.974
This is everything.
Seth
01:15:25.062 - 01:15:32.078
But if that was a move, like, if that. If they were really trying with that movie, for lack of a better word, they would need to cut some stuff out.
Drew
01:15:32.134 - 01:15:33.998
Absolutely. No, I totally agree with that.
Seth
01:15:34.054 - 01:15:35.596
But other than that, I mean, it's fine.
Kyle
01:15:35.628 - 01:15:38.284
Yeah, Yeah. I went super bad and.
Drew
01:15:38.372 - 01:15:39.836
What the is wrong with you?
Kyle
01:15:39.908 - 01:15:40.924
Everything. Everything.
Drew
01:15:41.012 - 01:15:41.756
Jesus Christ.
Kyle
01:15:41.828 - 01:15:43.840
Hey, you guys win the category.
Seth
01:15:44.900 - 01:15:47.612
Give him his face. Give him his face. Let's. Let's hear things.
Kyle
01:15:47.636 - 01:15:48.188
I love.
Drew
01:15:48.324 - 01:15:50.652
Give me your finger. Oh, I'm holding space for you.
Kyle
01:15:50.676 - 01:15:51.640
Oh, thank you.
Drew
01:15:52.100 - 01:15:53.680
I am Ariana Grande.
Seth
01:15:54.980 - 01:15:59.052
Oh, that's where that. I thought that was a new thing you were inventing right there. I was like, that's weird.
Kyle
01:15:59.196 - 01:16:07.538
I'll go positive first, though. It's weird to say this, but the score kicks Danny Elfman's ass. Danny Elfman is a legend, but he's out of his element these days.
Drew
01:16:07.594 - 01:16:08.162
Oh, my God.
Kyle
01:16:08.226 - 01:16:10.642
And I love Junkie Junkie XL here. Is that right?
Drew
01:16:10.666 - 01:16:23.990
Oh, no, no. He did not do this one. I was wrong. I will say this. Two episodes ago, I said he did this score. He did not. I still have it up on my phone.
All cast and crew composer Tom Hulkenborg.
Kyle
01:16:24.410 - 01:16:27.170
No, that's his real name. That's Junkie XL's real name.
Drew
01:16:27.210 - 01:16:29.362
Okay, well then never mind. Cool. I was correct.
Seth
01:16:29.426 - 01:16:30.690
You were not wrong.
Kyle
01:16:30.850 - 01:17:02.158
It's just weird they put his real name. Really Just a massive upgrade. Completely redefined. Minus the Amazonian cries. Completely upgraded. The bats or the black suit for Superman.
Yeah, killer. Love what I'm seeing there. The reason, though I went super bad was part of the reason I don't like the first half is the pacing.
That's why I asked if who edited it. Because I was like this. Even though this is the everything cut, it could have used another edit.
Because once it does kick in, once Cyborg story kicks in. Yeah, that pace is excellent. Yeah, but the first half was a lot to get through.
Drew
01:17:02.214 - 01:17:02.590
Yeah.
Kyle
01:17:02.670 - 01:17:12.142
For that. So that's. That's why I go that way. But again, total upgrade over everything else in Justice League. But I just needed.
I just needed more pace at the beginning.
Seth
01:17:12.206 - 01:17:12.670
Yes, sir.
Kyle
01:17:12.710 - 01:17:13.742
So that falls on editing.
Drew
01:17:13.806 - 01:17:16.158
But so would you call that a squeak under.
Kyle
01:17:16.294 - 01:17:22.782
Squeak under? No, because the first half of the movie is. Is so long. This is so much movie.
Drew
01:17:22.846 - 01:17:24.142
I mean, sure, they asked me for.
Kyle
01:17:24.166 - 01:17:26.038
Four hours of my time here, but if.
Drew
01:17:26.094 - 01:17:30.690
But if. If the editing is your only complaint, everything else is good.
Kyle
01:17:31.390 - 01:18:01.250
Oh, well, no, I'm glad you said that. No, massive, massive super bad. Because I just don't buy in. The CGI was more here. Dark sides now. Now I do love the addition story wise of Darkseid.
I think that improves the story massively. But I'm just so in the cgi and they're like ensconced in this world. Like. And when they enter the dome, right. They're now in a CGI dome.
And there's Parademons. I just hate that shit. And I just. I know that it's a marvel. You said people love it. There's vfx, people that say, this is.
Drew
01:18:01.290 - 01:18:28.870
This is a crazy moment where Steppenwolf is. Is beating the shit out of the Lantian guy and throws him against that rock and then walks up and he puts his foot in the puddle.
There's the VFX guys who did the good and bad vfx. They literally did a whole episode just about that one moment where he steps on a stick and then steps into that puddle.
Because it is one of the most flawless visual effects I've ever seen in my life.
Kyle
01:18:28.990 - 01:18:32.662
I just. I just can't stand it. I just. I. It's not.
Drew
01:18:32.766 - 01:18:33.974
We can all be wrong sometimes.
Kyle
01:18:34.022 - 01:18:57.296
I know. Well, here's. Here's what I'll say. I'm not a good candidate for that because I love you guys. Know the kind of movies I love. You call me old man.
My old man. This is coming out. But. But until it's convincing. Yeah, yeah. Again, Bane. I'll go back to Bane. I hate to compare Nolan to this, but Bane in the comics.
And again, I don't know much of the comics of anything, but I do know more about Batman, and he is cartoonish looking.
Drew
01:18:57.368 - 01:18:57.776
Oh, yeah.
Kyle
01:18:57.808 - 01:19:02.864
In the comics. And Nolan found a way to humanize him and make him very menacing.
Drew
01:19:02.912 - 01:19:03.328
Yeah.
Kyle
01:19:03.424 - 01:19:29.400
And I just. I just. That's kind of the standard. And. And not that it's fair to compare everybody to Nolan, but I've just seen it done in this world and I just.
I just. I just can't. I just can't watch it. I'm just like, oh, there's so much cgi and it's not convincing. So that's where I'm at. But you guys got.
Is where we at. It is five. No, it's four to one. Four to one. That's right. How good are these bad guys, huh?
Drew
01:19:29.740 - 01:19:44.104
I loved it. I. Again, whichever design you like, whatever. The character portrayal of Steppenwolf in this league's better to pull it back to your 20,000 leagues.
Kyle
01:19:44.232 - 01:19:46.168
20,000 justice leagues under the sea.
Seth
01:19:46.264 - 01:19:46.728
Perfect.
Drew
01:19:46.824 - 01:19:59.128
Darkseid looks menacing as fuck. Oh, my God. And then even knowing about decide. And I love that Granny's in there, but they never say her name because, fuck.
That is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
Seth
01:19:59.184 - 01:20:02.212
Oh, no. She's. She's like one of the. The best villains.
Drew
01:20:02.276 - 01:20:03.300
But no, the. The.
Seth
01:20:03.420 - 01:20:04.084
Not in this.
Drew
01:20:04.172 - 01:20:22.580
She is. But the. Just the name calling her granny and the. The. I don't know. It was weird in the animated series, but absolutely love.
Just the nod to who she is. And I'm sure she was gonna have A much bigger role in the next movies. But. And even.
Even somehow the Parademons, even though their design didn't change that much, they got way better in this. Yeah.
Seth
01:20:22.660 - 01:20:24.292
100 better actors.
Kyle
01:20:24.356 - 01:20:25.492
They smell fear.
Seth
01:20:25.636 - 01:20:26.964
Better Parademon.
Drew
01:20:27.012 - 01:20:27.748
Absolutely.
Seth
01:20:27.844 - 01:20:28.756
So were you.
Drew
01:20:28.828 - 01:20:38.132
Snyder, barely know her. I think it all like visual effects, whatever. Character wise, I think he brought way more to the table in this.
Seth
01:20:38.236 - 01:20:53.748
Snyder, barely know her. They amped up Stefan Wolf's character. So that was our. I mean I had already given it a. In general. Snyder, barely know her.
Last week with what we had a Stephanie. And then Darkseid is one of the best superhero villains of all time.
Drew
01:20:53.804 - 01:20:55.924
Yeah. He scares me more than Thanos.
Kyle
01:20:56.052 - 01:20:56.644
Absolutely.
Seth
01:20:56.692 - 01:21:00.736
Yeah. There's a. There's always a debate as to which would be. And me it's like, well, Darkseid.
Drew
01:21:00.768 - 01:21:01.760
Yeah. 100%.
Seth
01:21:01.880 - 01:21:10.720
Like they might be equally powerful, but Darkseid is considered a God on his planet. So like Thanos is. Well, I guess all Thanos people are dead. So.
Drew
01:21:10.760 - 01:21:11.120
Yeah.
Seth
01:21:11.200 - 01:21:26.160
Well, he's a God on his farm planet.
Anyway, so where they were going, you could tell the villains were only going to get like In Justice League 2, the villain would have been just better. So like. So Snyder, barely know her.
Drew
01:21:26.200 - 01:21:26.970
Woo.
Kyle
01:21:27.160 - 01:21:32.198
This was a really tough category for me again because we're. There's so much comparison going on.
Drew
01:21:32.254 - 01:21:36.598
Sure. But also I would say taking visual effects out of this part of the conversation.
Kyle
01:21:36.694 - 01:21:52.038
And I will say I hate the CGI stuff, but in the context of this world, the Snyder cut version, the original version of Steppenwolf, is a massive upgrade. It's hard to say upgrade because it was the original. I don't know.
Seth
01:21:52.094 - 01:21:52.454
Right.
Kyle
01:21:52.542 - 01:22:14.084
I actually don't know what in the hell they were thinking. Thinking going with that design in Justice League because it's. Even though I don't like it technically, it's obviously more menacing.
I will say this though. I didn't when. When I just focused on dark side like. And it was hard because there was so much CGI going on. I did like his design actually compared.
I don't.
Drew
01:22:14.132 - 01:22:15.732
Incredibly comic accurate, by the way.
Kyle
01:22:15.756 - 01:22:17.092
Yes. The eyes.
Drew
01:22:17.156 - 01:22:17.620
Yeah.
Kyle
01:22:17.700 - 01:22:18.340
Crushed me.
Seth
01:22:18.380 - 01:22:19.508
That's a big thing for him.
Kyle
01:22:19.644 - 01:22:29.840
That alone. And so I'll take VFX out of this one because I. I don't want to. I don't want to be overly unfair.
The addition of Darkseid, that should have been so prevalent in Justice League.
Drew
01:22:29.880 - 01:22:30.144
Yeah.
Seth
01:22:30.192 - 01:22:32.864
Especially since it was in Batman vs Superman at the end.
Kyle
01:22:32.872 - 01:22:33.104
Yep.
Drew
01:22:33.152 - 01:22:33.424
Yep.
Kyle
01:22:33.472 - 01:22:36.640
It gives it so much. It gives it so much backbone to.
Drew
01:22:36.680 - 01:22:40.304
Correct you actually it is Steppenwolf at the end of BBS when they do.
Seth
01:22:40.312 - 01:22:43.536
The upside down painting. And it zooms in and yes. All the people.
Drew
01:22:43.688 - 01:22:45.136
Oh, I thought you were talking about.
Kyle
01:22:45.208 - 01:22:46.112
It is dark side.
Drew
01:22:46.216 - 01:22:49.120
I thought you were talking about when. No. Yes, there's in the water.
Seth
01:22:49.160 - 01:22:51.504
Yeah. But at the end, like, I don't know.
Drew
01:22:51.512 - 01:22:53.222
You're right, you're right, you're right, right, right.
Kyle
01:22:53.406 - 01:22:59.062
The. The addition of that makes the story make so much more sense because Steppen Wolf is just an annoying, pathetic.
Drew
01:22:59.126 - 01:22:59.654
Yeah.
Kyle
01:22:59.782 - 01:23:30.390
Ugly looking cancer lung in the last one. And then here, that, that actually pulled on my heartstrings a little bit. I was like, oh my God. Like he's in.
He's in subservience to this God that doesn't want him. He's a failure. So that dynamic totally increased it. And I think it's a very interesting and not a very. To me, a typical dynamic.
I think it's atypical and I really, I really enjoyed that. So taking visual. The fact that I don't like CGA out of it. My old man, this really good job elevating the story by putting that back in there. So nice.
Seth
01:23:30.470 - 01:23:48.274
It was it. Before we go into the last category, it was interesting because I looked up why they did the change and it was like an intentional.
They're like, this will make him look more humane and more villainous and like a cancer opposite. And I, I was like, I was like two things. One, no, I mean, I liked it better, but I liked it because he looked more pathetic.
Drew
01:23:48.322 - 01:23:48.930
Yeah.
Seth
01:23:49.090 - 01:23:55.026
But then two, like, that's a lot of like extra money to spend on like such a small thing.
Drew
01:23:55.098 - 01:23:55.442
Yeah.
Kyle
01:23:55.506 - 01:23:57.810
Even in today. That's. That's huge budget.
Drew
01:23:57.890 - 01:23:58.242
Yeah.
Seth
01:23:58.306 - 01:23:59.630
Like, that's a like.
Kyle
01:24:00.010 - 01:24:00.386
Yeah.
Seth
01:24:00.418 - 01:24:04.178
Maybe. Maybe you could give Cyborg a bigger paycheck and get lawsuits.
Kyle
01:24:04.274 - 01:24:10.946
I think the estimate was what, 25 million on the reshoots is what they spent on just reshooting. What. What studio allows that to happen?
Drew
01:24:11.018 - 01:24:11.650
Yeah.
Seth
01:24:11.810 - 01:24:13.298
Oh, you want to take the spikes away.
Kyle
01:24:13.354 - 01:24:20.370
Directors have to work on a certain budget anyway. Then they get this guy for script polishes. Oh, by the way, here's 25 million to redo everything the other guy did.
Drew
01:24:20.410 - 01:24:25.346
Granted, I will say it was also about 25 million to finish the Snyder cut.
Kyle
01:24:25.418 - 01:24:25.906
Oh, really?
Drew
01:24:25.978 - 01:24:26.322
Yeah.
Kyle
01:24:26.386 - 01:24:26.722
Wow.
Drew
01:24:26.786 - 01:24:45.670
But that was because the visual effects weren't done. The unwatchable theatrical version. It's because the movie was not done. The visual effects weren't finished. There was a lot that wasn't done.
Wasn't done with the Unwatchable version. So that's why it was unwatchable. So this. He mostly had to finish visual effects and then shoot the one other scene.
Kyle
01:24:46.010 - 01:24:54.070
Five to one. One category left, and we're done with the Snyder trilogy franchise. Thank God. Good lore.
Drew
01:24:54.650 - 01:25:34.182
I. And I think you're gonna agree with me on this one.
You finish that movie, regardless of how you feel about the first half of it, you finished that movie and you were just like. Like, you. I want so much more of this. Like, once the action really comes in, once you get the idea of where the story is going, once.
Once you're introduced to what is going to be the ragtag group of heroes, anti heroes and villains having to come together to fix the world. I think, yeah, you're absolutely. You want to know what is going to happen, what's supposed to happen over those next couple of movies? So, yeah, 100%.
Snyder barely know. We're on that one for me.
Seth
01:25:34.286 - 01:26:16.212
Same here. Snyder barely know her. Taking aside the differences from other interpretations, we've. You've said this before in a bunch of movies.
Like, when you watch the movie, you're like, this is what. I'm in this universe right now. Right. So within being in this universe, after hanging out with them for four hours, I wanted to see more.
I wanted to see where the storyline was going. It was because of the characterizations, the. You know, and it was informed by parts of a variety of things in the comic book.
So by that standard, we can say good lore.
But even if we're just looking at the lore that's in front of us, if you're making a superhero movie, you get to have creative creativity on how you're.
Drew
01:26:16.276 - 01:26:16.884
Creative liberty.
Kyle
01:26:16.932 - 01:26:17.156
Yeah.
Seth
01:26:17.188 - 01:26:35.050
So like. Yeah, that's the word I was looking for. You get to decide to take a character like Stefan Wolf.
There's not much to go with because he's kind of a minor villain. And you get to say, well, we're gonna. We're gonna enhance his story. You get to take a character like the Flash and be like, what if he was autistic?
And you get to. You get to. You get to make that action.
Kyle
01:26:35.510 - 01:26:36.062
Right.
Seth
01:26:36.166 - 01:26:38.046
So you get to do things like that.
Kyle
01:26:38.118 - 01:26:39.246
So, yeah.
Seth
01:26:39.358 - 01:26:41.930
So Snyder barely know her.
Kyle
01:26:43.910 - 01:27:11.912
Just based on two factors alone. First of all, the premonition. I keep going back to it. Best sequence in the entire franchise was that premonition.
The way it was filmed, the acting, the darkness. It. It was. Of course, it also just aligns with things I like about movies.
The dark, the apocalyptic nature that in and of itself was enough to say, I want a whole universe built on that concept. Yeah. It pulled me in. And I also just love that Jared Leto moment of. Of seeing his. His laugh and everything about his Joker.
Drew
01:27:11.976 - 01:27:19.024
So many people said that that redeemed everything that Suicide Squad was. I still want to see the extra 45 minutes of footage of him from suicide.
Kyle
01:27:19.072 - 01:27:20.480
I haven't seen the Suicide Squads.
Seth
01:27:20.560 - 01:27:27.664
I really am intrigued by his version of the Joker. Everything I see him in, I hate him in. So part of me is like, I wouldn't enjoy it.
Kyle
01:27:27.752 - 01:27:28.064
Yeah.
Seth
01:27:28.112 - 01:27:30.048
But I. I still want to see it.
Drew
01:27:30.104 - 01:27:30.576
Yeah.
Kyle
01:27:30.688 - 01:27:41.344
The other. The other thing I'll go with before we wrap up is just Cyborg. I just. That was a story.
I got really Lost in need and I texted you guys this, but at that moment I was like, this is a story about fathers.
Drew
01:27:41.392 - 01:27:42.060
Yeah.
Kyle
01:27:42.240 - 01:28:06.068
Every character, for the most part, has some version of a father. A good father, an imprisoned father, an absent father, a dead father. Everyone's affected by a father in some way.
And that was the most convincing one because. Plus I just have this crazy soft spot for Morton because of his T2. Yeah. But I. That was really.
There was a weightiness there that I hadn't really experienced yet in the franchise. And that's why I got so hooked in. It's like all of a sudden there was a story I cared about.
Drew
01:28:06.124 - 01:28:06.500
Yeah.
Kyle
01:28:06.580 - 01:28:12.792
I loved him dealing with his humanity. And there was such a payoff and a redemption when he says, I'm not alone. I'm not broken.
Drew
01:28:12.856 - 01:28:13.272
Yep.
Kyle
01:28:13.336 - 01:28:16.680
That was secondary to the Superman taking the ax for him.
Drew
01:28:16.720 - 01:28:17.032
Yeah.
Kyle
01:28:17.096 - 01:28:19.864
That was like, maybe that was more emotional. I was like, damn.
Drew
01:28:19.912 - 01:28:21.400
I think it was more emotional.
Seth
01:28:21.480 - 01:28:21.736
Yeah.
Kyle
01:28:21.768 - 01:28:22.088
I love.
Seth
01:28:22.144 - 01:28:27.720
Because you saw the character development of his arc and that it just. In the movie, the four hours of movie, you got to see him grow into that point.
Drew
01:28:27.760 - 01:28:34.132
And then his dad sacrificing himself so they could find the motherbox later. Like it just. It just all came together together so well.
Kyle
01:28:34.236 - 01:28:42.036
Again, giant disappointment. I'm not getting a cyborg movie because that story and that premonition were both amazing. So six to one.
Drew
01:28:42.108 - 01:28:42.596
Hell yeah.
Kyle
01:28:42.628 - 01:28:43.700
Snyder. Barely know her.
Seth
01:28:43.740 - 01:28:44.004
Yeah.
Drew
01:28:44.052 - 01:28:44.468
Boom.
Kyle
01:28:44.564 - 01:29:00.674
So the way we're not going to stack rank these movies because of the way they were released, it doesn't really make sense. But I do want like a 30 to 60 second summary. Just we. We've studied these, we've watched them, we've talked about them at depth.
Like, what is your final take. Take on this franchise?
Seth
01:29:00.802 - 01:29:53.810
Okay. Mine is. It's fun enough because I love superhero Movies. Man of Steel. I. It was an interesting take. I enjoyed it. I like other Superman stuff better.
Batman vs Superman I didn't like much, but I loved, like, the fight scenes and just like, it just kind of gave me my superhero fix for the time. And Justice League, the first one, I liked it because. Because it did have like. Like just that brighter superhero thing that I like to have.
But I also. I didn't like it because of the editing, and I didn't like it because we know all the backstory behind the problems behind it.
And then this last movie, even though my third go around, I didn't love watching it. I remember how hyped I was when it came out.
It was so much fun to watch it and then to watch it again with my friends and to geek out over all the things. So, like, overall, this. These movies have given me fun times. And so, like, I'll give it a. A Drew's thumb up.
Drew
01:29:55.390 - 01:30:58.104
I. For me, this was really the first time outside of the X Men that I feel like we were given a fantastical yet grounded version of a superhero story.
Nolan was full grounded. The MCU was full fantastical for me.
And I'm not going to include Justice League and what I'm going to say here, because it is utter in my mind, these three movies and what I know was supposed to come after.
I feel like in the grand scheme of things, people would have been able to look back on especially Batman versus Superman once the whole thing had come out. But just as an entity in and of themselves, I have a great time watching them. I personally love the dark, gritty flavor that.
That Snyder took with this. And I feel like he was moving more into a happier direction before the real big downfall of the injustice section of the story was going to come.
So I absolutely enjoy watching them, imperfections and all.
Kyle
01:30:58.192 - 01:31:33.886
Yeah, interesting. Love both those takes. My. My final take is I. I'll go back to it again. I want to see Snyder get a real shot at something where this.
The studio is not up his ass and ruining his life. I see bits and pieces of things I like.
Like, I cannot determine whether or not he's a good storyteller, whether or not he can direct a complete film based on these. Again, I didn't like 300. I appreciate his stylistic things. I appreciate originality and differentiation. That's something we crave in.
In the society of, you know, reboots and unoriginal thought. So I do like that. And I want to see that fleshed out in a way where he gets complete Liberty when no one's up his ass.
Drew
01:31:33.958 - 01:31:34.494
Yeah.
Kyle
01:31:34.622 - 01:31:53.342
But you know, I also. Several times, I think the. I think nothing was ever as focused as man of Steel. Man of Steel was precise. It was a clear story.
And it was the most well rounded in terms of how it was delivered. The most easiest to understand as. Remember I'm non Comic Book Guy. That was the one that I felt the least alienated.
Seth
01:31:53.406 - 01:31:55.726
And it could stand alone. You wouldn't need the other ones.
Drew
01:31:55.758 - 01:31:56.014
Yes.
Seth
01:31:56.062 - 01:31:57.022
And it'd be just fine.
Kyle
01:31:57.086 - 01:32:22.948
As they went on, they became less focused and. And I don't. And here's the thing. One of the reasons and fans know this about me.
I love older movies because they have stories like Apocalypse now and Sheen's Heart Attack and all the things. Things. All the reasons movies almost didn't do well or get made.
But what I don't like about that in this case is that there's this external influence of fans that give us the cut. And even though it's cool that Snyder and because of his daughter and all that, I do think in this case it's awesome that he got to release his cut.
Drew
01:32:23.004 - 01:32:23.380
Yeah.
Kyle
01:32:23.460 - 01:32:30.516
But I don't like that troll culture. And I'm not saying they're all trolls. There are some good ones, but there also were some very toxic fans.
Drew
01:32:30.628 - 01:32:31.124
Oh, yeah.
Kyle
01:32:31.172 - 01:32:41.562
Yeah. That were involved too. But there was one good thing. And I didn't put this in my random shows because of the good fans.
$500,000 were kicked up and donated to a suicide prevention charity of Zack Snyder.
Seth
01:32:41.626 - 01:32:42.154
That's cool.
Kyle
01:32:42.202 - 01:33:12.868
So one good thing did come out. Shout out to those people. That's killer. But I. I really want him to get a shot here. I don't think these are complete stories except for man of Steel.
And I just, I not. Not to be unfair, I just go back to Nolan. Nolan was the first one to really as an adult.
I like the Batmans as a kid, but they don't really hold up anymore. But Nolan has set this standard and I go back to him as the guy. I say, this is. This is how I like to see these types of stories.
But I do think Zack Snyder is a skilled director. I just want to see it fleshed out in a real way.
Drew
01:33:12.924 - 01:33:13.252
Yeah.
Kyle
01:33:13.316 - 01:33:20.324
So thank you for hanging out with us. This was fun. Thank you for asking me to. To do this. I was in my. Out of my comfort zone and it was fun.
Seth
01:33:20.412 - 01:33:21.220
Thanks for doing it.
Kyle
01:33:21.260 - 01:33:26.532
Yeah, y'all, if you want the director's cut of your life, just let us know. Love you, Tile.
Drew
01:33:26.596 - 01:33:27.192
I'm seven.
Seth
01:33:27.276 - 01:33:29.280
I'm Drew. Have a good one.
Kyle
01:33:29.320 - 01:33:29.760
Booyah.