Snyder Trilogy: Batman Vs. Superman: Dawn Of Justice

Host Kyle

00:00:00.240 - 00:00:15.848

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie Wars Podcast.

Seth

00:00:15.944 - 00:00:16.392

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:00:16.456 - 00:00:16.888

Yeah.

Drew

00:00:16.984 - 00:00:18.184

What's up? Welcome back.

Seth

00:00:18.272 - 00:00:22.472

I say as I show off my Batman tattoo and back cat for what.

Host Kyle

00:00:22.496 - 00:00:28.640

We got going on today and what my kids call a stuffy. A Batman stuffy.

Seth

00:00:28.760 - 00:00:30.576

You better get the right vowel on that one.

Host Kyle

00:00:30.648 - 00:00:33.952

Yeah, yeah. It was next to his pillow. I saw it. He cuddles with that thing.

Drew

00:00:34.056 - 00:00:34.768

I love it.

Seth

00:00:34.824 - 00:00:35.392

I do.

Host Kyle

00:00:35.496 - 00:00:35.968

We can.

Drew

00:00:36.024 - 00:00:44.192

If Batman had that kind of love in his life, he would have never become Batman. That's love that only parents and Seth's fandom can give you.

Host Kyle

00:00:44.296 - 00:00:47.020

Yes. Well, we continue.

Drew

00:00:49.160 - 00:00:53.008

Was that too dark? I feel like maybe that was that too dark. Night.

Seth

00:00:53.144 - 00:00:55.580

Oh, boy. Here we go.

Host Kyle

00:00:56.120 - 00:01:06.542

Pun city. We are back. Yeah. Stop. Stop. To steal the dawn of something. I had to take a drink.

Seth

00:01:06.606 - 00:01:09.534

The dawn of stiffy, stuffy stiffy.

Host Kyle

00:01:09.662 - 00:01:23.646

Oh, no. We continue our Snyder trilogy discussion, even though we're going over four films technically intended to be a trilogy.

And today we're doing Batman versus Superman. Dawn of Justice, Ultimate Edition. Ultimate Edition.

Seth

00:01:23.678 - 00:01:43.758

Just to be clear, because there was. There was a theatrical version that got put out. I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it either. But it's the one that truly got eviscerated by people.

Then the Ultimate Edition came out, and I'd say for the people who were upset when the original one came out, most of their grievances were fixed in this extra 30 minutes that was added.

Drew

00:01:43.894 - 00:01:57.454

So I liked it better. But it wasn't like when I saw the ultimate Justice League version, which to me, I was like, oh, that's a completely different movie.

This makes so much more sense. No, this definitely was added a few scenes. I was like, oh, cool.

Seth

00:01:57.502 - 00:02:05.386

Well, this. This was definitely an extended version versus a. An original version of a reshot movie.

Drew

00:02:05.418 - 00:02:05.850

Right.

Seth

00:02:05.970 - 00:02:12.234

So we'll get into those in the next two weeks. But here we are with BVS Ultimate.

Host Kyle

00:02:12.282 - 00:02:14.138

Edition, not to be confused with bbs.

Drew

00:02:14.234 - 00:02:15.670

I was like, when you say it like that.

Host Kyle

00:02:15.970 - 00:02:32.470

I'm a big fan of Ultimate BVS Vacation Bible school. Yeah.

So where we've been, we just did man of Steel, and actually we kind of went into it thinking this is going to be negative, but we did a six to one. So we. We came out, we had a positive point of view on that.

Seth

00:02:32.510 - 00:02:33.130

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:02:33.710 - 00:02:40.246

We enter. This is. This is the interesting part. This is where the Reddit community goes, you know, off the rails with this.

Seth

00:02:40.398 - 00:02:53.350

Trilogy, you know, probably the most divisive of the Zack Snyder DC movies. And I say that because there. There were more Divisive movies and more controversial movies that came out, but Zack Snyder did not direct them.

Drew

00:02:53.390 - 00:02:59.366

Technically, Seth doesn't know this for sure because he was banned from the Zack Snyder. So there might be more divisiveness.

Seth

00:02:59.398 - 00:03:02.770

Specifically the. The SN subreddit.

Drew

00:03:02.930 - 00:03:03.602

Oh, okay.

Seth

00:03:03.666 - 00:03:15.362

Apparently saying something positive about Zack Snyder and. And chastising someone who is being unnecessarily an asshole is what will get you banned from the Snyder cut subreddit. So you guys, I know.

Host Kyle

00:03:15.386 - 00:03:21.458

That's what I went on the vegan subreddit and said I actually had a good steak today. And it was weird.

Drew

00:03:21.634 - 00:03:24.082

Suddenly DCS was at your house. It got weird.

Host Kyle

00:03:24.146 - 00:03:31.450

Yeah, I love carrots. Don't get me wrong, but I had a good steak today. Damn vegans and their carrots.

Seth

00:03:31.530 - 00:03:36.346

I know. Damn. Damn Snyder bros. And they're hating people. Defending Snyder. Oh my God.

Drew

00:03:36.378 - 00:03:37.930

Yeah, there's a. There's a.

Seth

00:03:37.970 - 00:03:39.430

You didn't defend him, right?

Drew

00:03:39.810 - 00:03:57.972

There's a. Some kind of Facebook group that.

Oh, people always ask comedy stand up show related questions and it's a Nashville based and they tag me in it and every time I answer the question I get. My thing gets removed for breaking the codes of conduct for the. So. So many people.

Seth

00:03:58.156 - 00:04:00.276

You are a vulgar piece of shit online.

Drew

00:04:00.348 - 00:04:09.060

Let's be real. It looks like I'm just not answering. It looks like people are tagging Drew Davis and Drew is like, well, figure it out.

That's why they call it your problems.

Host Kyle

00:04:09.140 - 00:04:09.812

That's hilarious.

Drew

00:04:09.876 - 00:04:14.132

I promise, if you're reading this because you hate me so much or reading this, what are we. What are we.

Seth

00:04:14.236 - 00:04:17.396

The subtitles are on and he puts out a transcript.

Drew

00:04:17.588 - 00:04:24.592

If you're reading the transcript and you're like, that's that guy that didn't respond to my. I just want you to know it ails me every day because I did respond.

Seth

00:04:24.676 - 00:04:37.500

But for those of you who don't know, while Drew is a completely clean comedian, he's a very verbal piece or vulgar piece of shit online. Oh yeah. Nothing but F words and C words and it's. It's crazy to watch. It's kind of hilarious.

Drew

00:04:39.120 - 00:04:39.928

Like, it's hot.

Host Kyle

00:04:39.984 - 00:04:41.544

He's brought down entire governments.

Seth

00:04:41.592 - 00:04:42.136

Yes.

Drew

00:04:42.248 - 00:04:47.752

So you can bring down governments. We haven't heard your. Your rant yet. I don't know. I don't know if there's a transition to it, but I want.

Seth

00:04:47.936 - 00:05:12.396

Yeah, and here's the thing. I. The biggest complaint I see about this movie is with the Martha sequence. Okay? When. When. When Batman has literally got a Kryptonite.

Spear to Superman's face. And Superman is just like, look, I don't care what happens, just save Martha. And Batman's like, what? And he's like, save Martha.

Why did you say that name? Why did you.

Drew

00:05:12.468 - 00:05:13.500

It's his mom.

Seth

00:05:13.620 - 00:05:14.700

Like, that's the. Yeah, I.

Drew

00:05:14.740 - 00:05:16.028

That was a perfect play by play.

Seth

00:05:16.084 - 00:05:16.556

Thank you.

Drew

00:05:16.628 - 00:05:17.244

That was in the movie.

Host Kyle

00:05:17.292 - 00:05:18.988

I actually liked yours better than what was in the movie.

Seth

00:05:19.084 - 00:06:22.630

Thank you. I figured you would. Here's the thing, okay? This is truly, truly the first time we have have seen a version of Superman this incredibly humanized.

And in this whole movie, Batman is looking at Superman as basically a nuclear weapon level alien that that one tiny little trigger could send everything off the rails and he's just destroying the Earth. This is the first time he. He actually has some ability to realize that even though he's Superman, there is a version of him just like him.

Just like Bruce and Batman, there is a version of this Superman that is a down to earth human being. Okay?

And so all of you fucking people who hate this thing, even though it's not like it was just something stupid, it literally like Zack Snyder and the other writer for the movie realize that both mothers have canonically been named Martha since their fucking inception. And they put it in the movie. If you don't like them are at the scene, then you're a heartless bastard and I hate you.

Host Kyle

00:06:23.170 - 00:06:23.690

Wow.

Drew

00:06:23.770 - 00:06:25.258

Well, I see where you're coming from.

Host Kyle

00:06:25.314 - 00:06:25.642

Wow.

Seth

00:06:25.706 - 00:06:26.506

Shall we get going?

Drew

00:06:26.578 - 00:06:27.914

I see where you're coming from.

Seth

00:06:28.002 - 00:06:29.190

Can I just say.

Drew

00:06:29.970 - 00:06:35.562

Can I just say, first of all, this is a safe space to express your opinions. Thank you. Also, I disagree.

Seth

00:06:35.626 - 00:06:37.178

Yeah, I know you're a heartless piece of.

Host Kyle

00:06:37.314 - 00:06:39.290

And I online especially.

Drew

00:06:39.410 - 00:06:53.288

Oh, yeah, of course.

And while I agree with the sentiment and like the why they got to where they were, where these people are paid lots of money to put together good sequences. And that was such a stupid.

Seth

00:06:53.384 - 00:06:54.616

I teared up in the theater.

Drew

00:06:54.728 - 00:06:59.192

Stupid. Like I teared up too. Tears of agony.

Seth

00:06:59.256 - 00:07:35.050

It hit me so hard emotionally to. Because A, I didn't even realize that both of their moms were named Martha until that very moment.

And then B, it's like I said, it's just for the first time because we've seen, we've seen that we have Ben Affleck as Bruce Wayne and Batman, who at this point has been doing this for 20 years. He's seen the death of his best friend and ward Robin at the hands of the Joker.

He's finally at a place where he is saying fuck it and he's tired of the crime. And so he's killing people for the first time on screen for Batman, he's literally gunning people down with guns.

Drew

00:07:35.390 - 00:07:39.658

He's tired of that. The visions or did we. Because I don't know.

Seth

00:07:39.704 - 00:07:40.790

It's all throughout the movie.

Drew

00:07:40.870 - 00:07:45.694

Is he doing it all throughout the movie? I thought I caught that this time. I don't love that, but I'm okay with it.

Seth

00:07:45.782 - 00:07:58.510

Again, it's this. It's this version of Batman. Most of the versions of Batman we've seen have been him relatively early on in the career.

We've never seen a fully fledged 20 year veteran Batman.

Host Kyle

00:07:58.590 - 00:07:58.942

Yeah.

Seth

00:07:59.006 - 00:08:11.146

And so because he's for the first time now seeing this otherworldly threat, because we're assuming that we're sticking with the Batman villains in his Gotham City up until Superman becomes a thing.

Drew

00:08:11.218 - 00:08:18.506

And in his defense, he did see man is still really close up where he saw the buildings falling apart, killing his buddies.

Seth

00:08:18.618 - 00:09:08.156

So for him, he's seen both Superman and Zod at the same time and can see what Superman could become at the wrong moment. And so, yeah, for him, he's nothing but a threat. He's nothing but a weapon.

And this is the first time in the entire situation where he actually understands there's a human aspect back to this character, which is something that I feel like we touched on a lot in man of Steel was that the whole point of man of Steel was to get us as the audience to see the human side of Superman. And so to me, that's why that moment was so incredibly impactful. To see. To see, yeah, sure. Maybe the delivery could have been a little better.

Maybe something else could have been done a little better to make it hit harder for more people.

But for me, I absolutely loved that moment because like I said, I didn't even realize that their moms were both named Martha until the very end of that.

Host Kyle

00:09:08.228 - 00:09:15.000

So, well, that's what, hour three by this time and that. And I'll. I'll say two and a half.

Drew

00:09:15.700 - 00:09:52.380

They still have the whole second movie of Doomsday with and adding Wonder Woman. Yeah, could have. That should. They should have stopped at that fight with the resolution.

And then movie three should have been when they introduced Doomsday and Wonder Woman. And so much of this movie's plot issues, not all of them, but a lot of the issues would have been resolved for me if I possibly took this movie.

And because they could have done a whole different story and build up and connection with Batman and Superman because they became buddies way too Quickly, at least for me. Like, yeah, I'm going to need a moment. If you just tried to kill me with a kryptonite spear, I'm going to need a couple. I'm going to need some.

Before I trust you with go saving my mom, I'm going to need a couple.

Seth

00:09:52.540 - 00:10:04.582

I don't disagree with that. But again, his goal at that point was to kill Batman or ask him to save him. Literally.

He looked at Lois and was just like, I don't really want to, but I have to ask the Bat to.

Drew

00:10:04.606 - 00:10:12.470

Help me with this. He should have said something like, hey, I don't know, like, his dialogue before the fight.

Kyle, are we getting, like, way off topic before we even get on?

Host Kyle

00:10:12.510 - 00:10:18.214

No, it's good. I'm. I'm just. I'm minding my notes. Yes, I also produce the show, so I.

Drew

00:10:18.382 - 00:10:46.848

He. That was another issue. I had that again. And I talked about this in the last movie, but it wasn't as big of a deal for the last movie.

But it's a huge deal in this movie is all the dialogue is ridiculous. Either it's funny ridiculous or it takes away from the plot ridiculous either. So anytime Jesse Eisenberg speaks, I think it's so terrible.

But it's fun. Like, he's. They should have not named him Lex Luthor and just made him his own little psychopathic character.

But, like, we'll get into Jesse Eisenberg later.

Seth

00:10:46.904 - 00:10:48.480

I have a whole thing on that.

Drew

00:10:48.600 - 00:11:10.570

Yeah, there should have been a. I don't.

I wish I'd written down the exact words he said before they fought, because it should have been something like, hey, Lex Luthor's captured my mother. And for. In blackmailing us to fight, can we please work together to save this?

Seth

00:11:10.690 - 00:11:13.706

I mean, he tried to say that, and Batman just kept punching him.

Drew

00:11:13.858 - 00:11:18.298

I think his words are like, no, you don't understand. Or, wait, stop. No, no, I guess we're doing.

Seth

00:11:18.354 - 00:11:39.946

The very first thing he starts to say is, I need your help. This. And before he can get any of it out, Batman comes and shoots him with the kryptonite and starts hitting him. Yeah, like, he tried.

He legitimately tried. And again, Batman is so overtaken by his anger at that point that he's not really listening to him. So I mean it. I disagree with you.

It made complete sense.

Drew

00:11:40.058 - 00:12:02.042

So I think if. And again, these people are paid a lot more money than me to figure out how to make a good movie. So I feel like it's more responsibility on them.

But if it was me actually Knowing that the movie's called Batman vs Superman. Him trying to reason with Batman we already know is not gonna work at all. So there does need to be that big fight scene.

That's what we came to the theaters to watch, literally.

Seth

00:12:02.186 - 00:12:05.710

And there's a reason that whole sequence is shot in the IMAX format.

Drew

00:12:06.770 - 00:12:57.934

There should have been similar to how there was an almost ending conclusion. But then Batman, on his own merit, maybe through something Alfred said, maybe Lois gets there in time. Maybe.

Maybe something pops up on the screen and Lex Luthor is like, ha, time's up. Now I'm gonna go kill your mom or whatever. Batman should have figured it out without a stupid Martha line.

And then that could have enlisted the entire. What you just said about the beauty of that moment. And he. Then that's when they could have worked together. Maybe something else could have happened.

Maybe there could have been some situation on Batman's end that was equally as troubling where he. He. He gets a phone call from Alfred and he's got to go resolve that. I mean, there could have been so many situations where the fight ended in a.

Almost draw. And then they went and they saved the day together. It did not need to end with such a cheesy. Which has to go down in.

In the line of superhero movie history is the dumbest.

Seth

00:12:58.062 - 00:13:04.382

Oh, I disagree. I disagree. I don't think it's a cheesy line at all. I thought it was a very great moment. And even in the theater, I was like, this is awesome.

Host Kyle

00:13:04.526 - 00:13:09.694

So maybe the next one should have been just. They only. They teamed together to only save women named Martha.

Seth

00:13:09.742 - 00:13:10.370

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:13:10.950 - 00:13:11.806

Only Martha's.

Drew

00:13:11.838 - 00:13:12.206

Absolutely.

Host Kyle

00:13:12.238 - 00:13:13.402

Yeah. We' load up.

Seth

00:13:13.506 - 00:13:15.306

The villain is the marinator.

Host Kyle

00:13:15.418 - 00:13:22.762

Yeah. We're going to get a.

We're going to get a tanker outside on the coast of Gotham and we're just going to load it up with Martha's and take him to safety.

Seth

00:13:22.826 - 00:13:24.522

Martha Stewart's at the head of everything.

Host Kyle

00:13:24.626 - 00:13:25.242

Yeah.

Drew

00:13:25.386 - 00:13:31.590

Plot twist. She's the villain. She works with Dr. Dre. How can you betray us?

Host Kyle

00:13:32.050 - 00:13:37.674

Yeah. It's an interesting discussion. I. I hate to say it. I do. I do kind of side with Drew, but for different reasons.

Drew

00:13:37.722 - 00:13:46.270

Okay, hold on a second. A simple eyesight. Drew, for different reasons would have been just fine.

Seth

00:13:46.350 - 00:13:50.142

No, you're a vulgar piece of online. So it had to be with a little bit of begrudging.

Host Kyle

00:13:50.206 - 00:13:50.638

Yeah.

Drew

00:13:50.734 - 00:13:51.262

Okay.

Host Kyle

00:13:51.326 - 00:13:52.030

He's not.

Drew

00:13:52.150 - 00:13:57.230

I'm not gonna disagree with any of this, but it. It is gonna make people look me up online and be very confused.

Host Kyle

00:13:57.310 - 00:14:02.318

Yeah. Because they're gonna find out you're actually just a nice guy and. Yeah. And very professional.

Seth

00:14:02.414 - 00:14:03.730

Oh, my God.

Host Kyle

00:14:04.710 - 00:14:37.062

I. My thing is, is I feel again, I approached this. I didn't read the comics. I never intended to. I want to look at these as movies pieces. Right.

I feel like by the time the Martha thing comes around, I've been loaded up with a lot of, like, context. And there's a lot of callbacks they plant into the movies and this, like, into Donna, like, the next ones, too, in Justice League, and, like.

But I feel just kind of, like, overwhelmed. I'm like. Like I'm missing, like, the Martha thing. Like, it didn't hit me till that moment, and I think it just didn't hit me.

Seth

00:14:37.166 - 00:14:37.446

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:14:37.478 - 00:14:39.750

Because I feel like I'm loaded up with so much other stories.

Drew

00:14:39.830 - 00:14:40.694

Like. Okay.

Host Kyle

00:14:40.742 - 00:14:41.062

Yeah.

Drew

00:14:41.126 - 00:14:42.454

Because that's a thing.

Host Kyle

00:14:42.542 - 00:14:53.158

The first hour and a half of the movie is pretty dialog heavy, actually, considering that it's superhero movies. And I'm just kind of like. Because by this time, we've already seen Congress explode. Right?

Seth

00:14:53.214 - 00:14:53.542

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:14:53.606 - 00:15:01.014

And it's like, I'm just kind of like, my bright. My brain's a little frightened. And by the time we get to the Martha thing, I'm just like, oh, yeah, they're both named Martha.

Drew

00:15:01.062 - 00:15:01.382

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:15:01.446 - 00:15:11.156

You know, it just like. I just feel like I've been loaded up with so much story at this point, and I. That's why it didn't really pack a punch for me. And then.

But the way you're talking about, like. Yeah, it is kind of cheesy.

Seth

00:15:11.188 - 00:15:21.860

You know, it's good for me. It calls back to the moment that Zod was about to kill his mom in the first one.

And he literally busts through the wall and saying, don't you touch my mother.

Host Kyle

00:15:21.940 - 00:15:22.340

Yeah.

Seth

00:15:22.420 - 00:15:32.394

Like, it. It was. To me, it was that kind of callback where, like, you know, how overprotective.

As much as we think he's protective of Lois, he's even more protective of his mom.

Drew

00:15:32.532 - 00:15:35.390

Because you don't mess with the Kansas farm boys.

Seth

00:15:35.470 - 00:15:35.934

You don't.

Host Kyle

00:15:35.982 - 00:15:36.302

Yeah.

Seth

00:15:36.366 - 00:15:49.054

And so, I don't know, for me, like, as at that point, I'm. I was so invested in the story itself in theaters and when I saw the. The Ultimate Edition, that, for me, I don't know, it hit very hard for me.

Drew

00:15:49.142 - 00:15:57.582

I think my biggest. Maybe what's colored my opinion of that scene is my biggest problem with the movie was how they portrayed Superman.

Seth

00:15:57.646 - 00:15:58.146

Okay.

Drew

00:15:58.238 - 00:16:09.706

I. Any kind of character development, positive character development, they did in man of Steel.

I Felt like Batman versus Superman just completely crapped on. In what way?

Seth

00:16:09.858 - 00:16:10.538

I'm curious?

Drew

00:16:10.634 - 00:16:54.770

He became the plot device for the question of should these all powerful superhero aliens be worshiped or be held in checked. Are they criminals suddenly?

I mean, every scene we saw him in, it was all about people either, you know, like, not liking him, not wanting, like they. Then there. To me, the.

The greatest point of this was the cheesy scenario where he saved a kid from a burning building and everyone hero worshiped him right there. Which is going back to the whole point of the movie is, you know, from Batman's perspective, people are.

People are either worshiping him or there's people that should be concerned for them. And then of course, you have Lex Luthor in the same movie who's like way over the top, past the extremist route of not worshiping him and.

Seth

00:16:54.810 - 00:16:59.242

Yeah, and also manufacturing some of the rage against him.

Drew

00:16:59.346 - 00:17:12.522

I feel like by this movie I might be wrong because we never get the whole series. But Batman is the main character of these movies. Batman is the hero. Batman's the person that Snyder is like, setting the plot around.

Seth

00:17:12.626 - 00:17:22.868

Yes. Because this was not. I just want to make this clear. This was not man of Steel 2.

Snyder had another idea for man of Steel 2 that was going to come after the first Justice League movie.

Host Kyle

00:17:22.884 - 00:17:23.316

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Drew

00:17:23.348 - 00:17:38.596

But I thought. I thought Ben Affleck was fantastic. I would have loved to see more of him. I would have loved to see a Batman vs. Deathstroke movie.

Oh, that would have been so good. I mean, I feel like every. I was a fan and I wanted to. I wanted to know more about, like, what happened to Robin at the Joker's hand.

That would have been a movie too.

Seth

00:17:38.668 - 00:17:39.156

Yeah.

Drew

00:17:39.268 - 00:18:06.858

That also, it was alluded to that might be the Red Hood and not his original Robin, because he sees a different grave with Robin. So, like, yeah, there's all this. He did set up the scene. And I liked watching Ben Affleck as Batman. I just felt like where they took.

There was like, no character development for Superman. There was no.

And everything about him, it just went back to, like, the ethical question of his existence, which is a little bit more than man of Steel, but not enough to like, make a whole movie about.

Seth

00:18:06.994 - 00:19:03.624

See, this is where I would disagree with you is I do see some significant character development with Superman and Clark, because in the first movie, it was just. He finally felt unleashed. Because the whole time before he puts on the suit, his dad's like, keep yourself hidden. Don't let anyone know who you are.

Then he finally unleashes at the end of that movie. And now he is doing the thing that Superman fans want, which is the everyday, oh, someone's in trouble.

I'm gonna leave and disappear and go save him and then come back. He's doing that thing.

But then he's also having to answer for when he did unshackle himself completely and destroyed the entirety of Metropolis, which again, they did this a year before Civil War did Civil War, which I know I'm gonna get so much hate for saying this. Civil War is my least favorite Marvel movie. I think it was so many worse.

Drew

00:19:03.672 - 00:19:04.968

Ones to pick from.

Seth

00:19:05.104 - 00:19:48.998

This is my absolute dog shit least favorite.

If you think that the change between Batman and Superman was quick, how about the fact that we had what, eight, nine movies of buildup of Tony Stark doing his thing and then out of nowhere some random ass mother crying about a kid who died that he's never seen before. Suddenly he's just like, oh, I've got the moral high ground now. I need to say that we need to do better when he's literally.

That's the exact opposite of Tony Stark's character.

So to compare those two moments, which are pretty significant in both movies, I feel like this movie handled the aftermath of an all out God level brawl in the middle of a modern city.

Drew

00:19:49.054 - 00:20:17.624

Well, and the, well, the big, the big thing for this movie, in addition to the end of man of Steel was the beginning when Jimmy Olsen. I put quotes in because they completely just took the name and put on different.

Yeah, when he, you know, when he got murdered and when like they that like sleuth or framed him for that whole song. That is very real. But what, what I don't know. The Superman that I would be used to is. Handles all of that a lot better than this one.

Seth

00:20:17.712 - 00:20:44.210

Sure this is. But this is Superman 18 months into being Superman. We've established in the first one.

He's pulling everything out of his ass at this point as far as like his ethics, his morals. How is he going to handle being this all powerful being?

And now he's having to go through not only trying to do the hero thing, but also immediately having to answer for the consequences of his actions in the first one.

Drew

00:20:44.250 - 00:20:46.482

But it's a movie and does he have to be so boring?

Seth

00:20:46.626 - 00:20:48.390

I don't think he was boring.

Drew

00:20:48.730 - 00:21:12.136

Like he was so monotone, so one dimensional. The most we I the most I liked him.

I would say there were probably three scenes that I found him slightly redeemable in the first time he meets Batman. Where he's just like, you're done. Yeah, that was pretty cool. I do kind of like that scene the first time Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne meet each other.

Seth

00:21:12.208 - 00:21:12.456

Yeah.

Drew

00:21:12.488 - 00:21:39.554

That's kind of a fun scene with Jesse Eisenberg knowing everything. He's the person who knows what's going on, but he's still kind of like, you know, point at them. And then the scene that.

Then when he's being blackmailed by Lex Luthor and that you do get to see his emotion. You do get to see his struggle. You do kind of like you were saying, Kyle at that point.

We were so many hours in that I was like, am I still watching this movie? Like, is this. Have I. Have I fallen into this world? Is this reality?

Host Kyle

00:21:39.682 - 00:21:40.594

I loaded up.

Drew

00:21:40.682 - 00:21:51.814

Yeah. But I just. Throughout the whole movie, like, it just. It became like a shift to Batman's the main focus.

Which, don't get me wrong, Batman's great and a good character on his own.

Seth

00:21:51.882 - 00:21:53.710

His name also comes first in the title.

Drew

00:21:53.790 - 00:22:29.320

True. But these are. It's just. These are two really big names in Superhero Dome. They have two very different personalities.

The way their stories work best is when they're both equally spotlighted and conflicting. And it just feels like this movie only shows it properly from Batman's perspective. Don't get me wrong, I really liked seeing.

I would have loved to see more Batman Ben Affleck movies, but I just feel like I found myself getting bored with Superman and I felt like he became a plot device in this movie.

Seth

00:22:29.400 - 00:23:02.050

Interesting. I just. I see it from such a different perspective because I feel like. I feel like it hit both characters super well.

I feel for Superman by the end of the whole thing because of him realizing how. How much power he truly does without even saying the Spider man, you know, moniker of. With great power comes great responsibility.

I feel like that dawning on him really showed in the movie. So that's where I'm like, I don't. I don't see him as a one dimensional character in this movie. I see significant changes.

Host Kyle

00:23:02.130 - 00:23:02.626

Yeah.

Seth

00:23:02.738 - 00:23:38.440

Especially with the fact that he's decided to sacrifice himself at the end of the movie. Like in the first movie, he wins by killing the bad guy and that's it. In this, he realizes the only way he can kill the bad guy is if he dies too.

So I see him from going from the struggle of what am I supposed to do? To finally ending this movie with, no, if I'm gonna be the hero, I have to do the thing that heroes do, which is sacrifice myself and everything.

I want for the greater good of humanity, which he does.

Drew

00:23:38.830 - 00:23:40.102

Yeah, that's a good point.

Host Kyle

00:23:40.206 - 00:23:44.730

Yeah, I like watching you too. Just feel like two blunt instruments.

Seth

00:23:45.630 - 00:23:47.130

Don't talk about my penis.

Drew

00:23:49.950 - 00:24:27.232

I will say that I. One thing I did appreciate the. Before we go into actual. What we're talking about, I regularly quote one of Martha Kent's lines to Superman.

To people frequent when she's telling Superman, you can be all these things or you can be none of them. It's completely up to you.

I feel like when I've interacted with young people, like, who are, like, really talented and deal with, like, the pressure of, like, show business and, like, what to do, I. I tell them, like, look, you could do all this stuff, but if it doesn't, like, make you happy, like, you don't actually have to do any of it.

Like, I feel like I've quoted Martha Kent because when I saw that in this movie, I was like, oh, I've.

Host Kyle

00:24:27.296 - 00:24:27.568

I.

Drew

00:24:27.624 - 00:24:30.608

That's. This is where I've heard that line that I say to other people.

Host Kyle

00:24:30.664 - 00:24:31.016

Yeah.

Seth

00:24:31.088 - 00:24:38.712

Also the scene between him and the ghost of his father up at the top of that mountain. How can you not say that? That's such. Such an emotionally charged.

Drew

00:24:38.776 - 00:24:47.304

At that moment, I was so bored with the movie that I was like, oh, okay. Like, I'll be honest. That was. That was. I felt like I was just like. This whole movie was like, let's get.

Host Kyle

00:24:47.312 - 00:24:48.980

Kevin Costner back in here.

Seth

00:24:49.520 - 00:24:58.490

That's.

That's what confuses me, because I respect and accept your opinion, even though I vastly disagree with it, because I never once during this movie have been bored.

Host Kyle

00:24:58.560 - 00:24:58.838

Really.

Seth

00:24:58.894 - 00:25:02.374

I absolutely am just glued to the screen the whole time.

Host Kyle

00:25:02.462 - 00:25:02.822

Yeah.

Seth

00:25:02.886 - 00:25:09.526

So that's where it, like, confuses me when people, like. It was boring. It was this. It was that. I'm like, how? Just I don't understand it. So.

Host Kyle

00:25:09.598 - 00:25:09.990

Yeah.

Drew

00:25:10.070 - 00:25:11.494

What were your thoughts, Kyle?

Host Kyle

00:25:11.622 - 00:25:16.038

Well, I. You know, I. You know, I. I just think it's.

Drew

00:25:16.054 - 00:25:18.486

Okay if you disagree with me, even if you hate to disagree.

Host Kyle

00:25:18.598 - 00:25:38.848

Well, I agree with Drew, but for different reasons. No, no, I. You know, I. I just. I had so many thoughts while you're both were talking, but some of the things that kind of came to mind were.

First of all, is. Is the going back to the Martha thing what.

That kind of knocked loose for me was this idea that we needed another Batman origin story where we see his parents get killed. Again, I just like.

Seth

00:25:38.984 - 00:25:40.176

Which we see in this movie.

Host Kyle

00:25:40.208 - 00:25:46.720

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. We see it all the time. Every Batman. Every time we kick off Batman again, we, we get that.

Seth

00:25:46.760 - 00:26:04.146

Like, that's not true. Actually. It wasn't in any. It wasn't obviously not in the Adam west one. It wasn't in either Michael Keaton ones.

It wasn't until Batman Forever that we first see that on screen, that we don't see it again in Batman and Robin. And we do see it the one time in Batman Begins. Only two times.

Host Kyle

00:26:04.218 - 00:26:11.522

I feel like I've seen it so many times. Like, and did they really. Did they just put it in there for the Martha thing? Because other than that, I don't think we.

This movie's already got a long run.

Drew

00:26:11.546 - 00:26:33.970

Time, like remind you of Martha, but also to set you up. Like, I feel like, like, oh, we're about to watch Batman.

Which I always wondered about that because I'm like, anyone who knows about Batman knows that this is a thing that happens.

But I do feel like when you're making a movie, maybe one of the questions you're answering is like, how do I make this connect to people who've never heard of Batman or Superman?

Seth

00:26:34.050 - 00:27:02.636

Yeah, I do think in this type of instance that is something that needed to be brought up, especially in the way that he did it.

Because it harkens back to the intro of Watchmen for me, where he's got 50, 60 years of timeline that he's trying to shove into a two minute opening sequence. And so for this, I do feel like that was the appropriate way to introduce it. Make it some visual moments, but don't like Batman Begins did.

Don't make it the entire crux of this whole sequence.

Drew

00:27:02.748 - 00:27:16.598

The only thing that, and I remember thinking of this when I was watching it this last time that they Snyderversed it with that I thought was overwhelmingly cheesy, was at the end when the bats raised the child out of the cave.

Seth

00:27:16.694 - 00:28:05.570

Okay, so I have a fun fact for that. So it came out in theaters, I watched it, enjoyed it.

Then the Ultimate Edition came out and me and my friend James and his brother David were sitting in their living room watching it.

So we're now, what, four minutes into the movie when that happens, David, James's younger brother immediately perks up and goes, I wonder how many bats that would actually take to do that.

He spent the rest of the movie, the next three hours furiously researching, like, okay, so if we had the weight of one one foot piece of dental floss connected to the bat and connected to him, how much lift would that produce? He literally emailed a PhD who is the world's highest expert in this particular type of bat that was used in the movie.

Host Kyle

00:28:05.650 - 00:28:06.050

Wow.

Seth

00:28:06.130 - 00:28:18.114

Within 30 minutes the guy emailed him back. Cause he was probably like, holy shit, somebody read something I wrote. This is incredible.

We found out by the end of the movie it would have taken I think the number was 10 plus million bats.

Host Kyle

00:28:18.242 - 00:28:18.642

Wow.

Seth

00:28:18.706 - 00:28:21.906

To raise an 80 pound kid off the ground.

Host Kyle

00:28:21.978 - 00:28:23.270

That's batshit crazy.

Drew

00:28:23.690 - 00:28:24.722

That's a lot of batshit.

Seth

00:28:24.786 - 00:28:26.962

Here's the only reason I forgive it though. It's a dream.

Drew

00:28:27.026 - 00:28:27.666

Yeah, yeah.

Seth

00:28:27.698 - 00:28:29.090

That's the only reason I forgive it.

Drew

00:28:29.130 - 00:28:41.922

Because otherwise I would completely agree. You saw that it was a dream sequence which I got, I got a little tired of the dream. I saw what they were doing with the dream sequences.

But I was like, you know, this wouldn't be a freaking three hour movie if we had less dreams.

Seth

00:28:41.986 - 00:29:52.920

Sure.

But again, as we talked about with man of Steel, the problem that Zack Snyder had from the very beginning was he was setting up when Iron man was made. Even Iron Man 2 and the incredible Hulk, I don't think they fully realized they were going to be making the mcu.

That was probably in the back of Kevin Feige brain. But I think he was more concerned with just making superhero movies that worked.

This from the get go was Warner Brothers saying you were about to create an entire cinematic universe of the Justice League. Have fun.

So for having that monumental task in front of him, I, yeah, I do think that the dream sequences were very important because the scene with Barry showing up with the Flash showing up was supposed to be the climax of Justice League 2 where Barry goes back in time to give Bruce that message. And that's why he says, am I too soon?

Because it's, it's not at the right moment for him to understand what is going on, what's going to be happening with Superman in the future. So legitimately he was setting up something that was going to happen in his plan four movies later.

Drew

00:29:53.020 - 00:30:13.120

Yeah. And I think Mike and I said this in the last episode. My critique with the Snyderverse is he spent or not. And not just him.

I'm sure there were multiple people, they spent so many, so much setting things up for perfect universe, for a perfect franchise. For that they forgot each movie should in some way stand on its own.

Seth

00:30:13.160 - 00:30:31.798

I agree with you. And this is. I will be the first person to say I do not think this one in particular is a perfect movie.

Of the three that I considered to be the real movies, man of steel, BVs and the Snyder cut, I do consider this one to definitely Be the weakest. I don't think it's as shitty as some people would like to act like it is. I think it is.

Drew

00:30:31.854 - 00:30:36.374

It was very fun superhero watching the CGI and the fight scenes.

Seth

00:30:36.422 - 00:31:34.488

Yeah. Like it's, it's, it's, I think, of a reasonably well made movie.

I think the ultimate edition tied up a lot of loose ends and a lot of problems that people had with, with the theatrical version. But I also think a lot of times people forget with, with having by this point now, seven years, six years, seven years of Marvel movies.

He was under a lot of pressure to really get Justice League out.

Like that was Warner Brothers number one goal was we got to get to Justice League as quickly as possible because they've already passed us twice with two Avengers movies. Not just Avenger adjacent, like actual two Avengers movies by then.

So he had a lot that he had to put together in order to get to the Justice League movie two years later. Also remember there were two years between man of Steel and this and then two years between this and the original release of Justice League.

Like they did not give him, I think, the time to really solidify what he was trying to do. Large scale.

Host Kyle

00:31:34.584 - 00:32:12.208

Yeah. Speaking of large scale. Hey, if you're watching. Thank you.

And if this is your first time hanging out with us at the Movie wars podcast, you might be very confused. I get it. We. It's not. This is a great heated debate. It's not usually like this, but this is fun. I'm enjoying it because I'm not the superhero guy.

And so I'm just kind of watching these two gladiators. But hey, hit subscribe, Follow Share.

I know you got a friend out there on Reddit that's just talking about these movies from the Snyder Cut subreddit who's not banned. Like Seth here. Send it to a friend. Share. That's the easiest way to grow movies where in its free and you get to feel good about yourself.

Drew

00:32:12.304 - 00:32:13.008

There you go.

Seth

00:32:13.064 - 00:32:16.624

And you get to see two white guys yell at each other about Batman and Superman.

Drew

00:32:16.752 - 00:32:20.896

There's not enough white guys yelling about comics in this world.

Host Kyle

00:32:20.968 - 00:32:24.740

There really isn't. Yeah, we are. We are short on white guys.

Drew

00:32:27.960 - 00:32:33.100

I love that. I. I love. I'm picturing all the mean things people are thinking or saying.

Seth

00:32:33.480 - 00:32:39.978

Oh, I can't. I. I've. I've viscerally prepared myself for the amount of hate I'm going to get for defending this movie.

Host Kyle

00:32:40.074 - 00:32:47.082

Yeah. So you should name your next comedy special short on White Guys. I would love that. That would be Amazing.

Drew

00:32:47.146 - 00:33:21.586

That'd be great. Yeah.

The question, and I'm sorry, I should say, as I've been shitting on the movie a little bit, like, I actually in some ways enjoyed this one better than man of Steel because it was, like, more action packed. Right. Like, when I go in to watch these kind of movies, I don't. I don't go in expecting, man, this is gonna be a great plot. This is gonna.

This is gonna keep me thinking for days.

My problem with the Snyderverse movies is that it's like they promise they're gonna be a great plot and we'll be thinking for days, and then they give us all the slow motion and none of the payoffs.

Seth

00:33:21.618 - 00:33:29.128

This one barely had any slow motion compared to any of his other movies, by the way. So I will say, yeah, I think he did a good job holding back here.

Host Kyle

00:33:29.314 - 00:33:29.948

Yeah.

Seth

00:33:30.044 - 00:34:04.256

And I also. Here's the other thing, y'all. Zack Snyder is his own director. He makes his own visual style.

Walking into a Zack Snyder movie and not expecting slow motion is like walking into a Quentin Tarantino movie and not expecting a lot of feet shots. Okay. It's like walking into a Christopher Nolan movie and not expecting there to be some sort of commentary on time. Like, this is his visual style.

This is the way he does things. If you don't like it, don't watch his movies. Okay. Just expect it, enjoy it for what it is, and move the on.

Host Kyle

00:34:04.328 - 00:34:06.032

Unless you got to talk about it on a podcast.

Seth

00:34:06.096 - 00:34:06.432

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:34:06.496 - 00:34:08.832

Then you. I have to watch it then.

Seth

00:34:08.856 - 00:34:10.784

Yeah. You kind of got a rant, but, you know.

Host Kyle

00:34:10.872 - 00:34:20.064

Yeah, the questions, the questions. Did anyone else think that Jesse Eisenberg's Lex Luthor was, like, watching a tweaked out Mark. Mark Zuckerberg doing a Joker impression?

Seth

00:34:20.112 - 00:34:22.144

That's exactly what it was supposed to be.

Host Kyle

00:34:22.312 - 00:34:28.204

He was tweaked out, man. And I thought it was like he was almost. He almost was acting. Acting like a joke. The Joker, in some ways.

Seth

00:34:28.252 - 00:34:31.068

Have you met tech bros like that? That's what they look like.

Host Kyle

00:34:31.124 - 00:34:35.084

I mean, yeah, I've been in tech for a long time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Drew

00:34:35.132 - 00:34:55.292

He. It was a stretch. Okay. I, I had, I had divided opinions.

I think I actually, based on what I've seen of Jesse Eisenberg, I do think I like his acting style. I, I, and I liked. He was a good villain in this movie. Like the way he was able to outsmart both Batman and Superman and put them against it.

Now, that's a very Lex Luthor move there.

Seth

00:34:55.316 - 00:34:55.804

Yes.

Drew

00:34:55.932 - 00:35:27.872

In general, however, it was like they were saying, we want to have Lex Luthor and just not have Lex Luthor.

And I've seen arguments where they drew from different inspirations from the comics or he was a different version, or even arguments where he's a clone of Lex Luthor, which is based off of different comic books.

I think it's just easier in my brain to put him as a not Lex Luthor and just, I mean he was a good villain, but he absolutely seemed like he was like, it seemed like he was coked out 90% and.

Host Kyle

00:35:27.896 - 00:35:29.120

Doing a Joker impression.

Seth

00:35:29.280 - 00:36:50.150

But again, I think that was the point because again, from the moment man of Steel started, Zack Snyder was very clear this is not going to be your typical Superman.

And the last time we had seen Lex Luthor on screen was Kevin Spacey, who was pretty much an attempt to just be the clone of the original Christopher Reeve, Superman's Lex Luther. So we had really only seen one type, two interpretations, but one type of Lex Luthor on screen for the world that Zack Snyder was creating.

Which was again answering the people who wanted a more Christopher Nolan vibe to the Superman series. He pulled from modern day tech people to kind of get the vibe of what would Lex Luthor look like in our world today.

He would look like a Mark Zuckerberg. He would look like a Jeff Bezos. He would look like an Elon Musk. He would look like those types of people. And Elon Musk is incredibly adhd.

Mark Zuckerberg, even when he's calm, seems like he's incredibly coked out all the time. And then by the end of the movie he looks like Jeff Bezos.

So I kind of feel like he, he, he, I think he played it well to be a different interpretation of what would have fit in this world. I don't think a brawny, bald, Clancy Brown voiced kind of guy would have fit in this universe.

Drew

00:36:50.490 - 00:37:16.446

And then I wonder if it would have been better received though is if because we talked about this maybe in the last episode or maybe we've just talked about in general where like there's a fine line in like doing modernizing a well known character and like, or when is it time to create a new character?

Sure, I would have received it better if he made an entirely new character that was, and you kind of knew go in it it was based off of Lex Luthor and maybe just call him Alex.

Seth

00:37:16.558 - 00:37:27.966

So I don't disagree with that. The problem was one of the bigger criticisms of man of Steel was that Lex Luthor wasn't in it.

Yeah, at the time, that was something people were very upset about. And so Lex Luthor had to be.

Drew

00:37:28.038 - 00:37:41.930

So we're seeing a rear recurring theme here that I think might also be maybe an issue with these movies. Is everything about these movies is response to critics. Yes, unfortunately, all the problems, it's always gone back.

Well, people were saying this, so we tried to do this.

Host Kyle

00:37:41.970 - 00:37:47.402

Yeah. And then they do a new cut. It's like, oh, we heard your feedback. We put that stuff back in the movie. It's like, that's not how this works.

Seth

00:37:47.466 - 00:38:34.132

And with this movie in particular, this is. Is both where Snyder really tried to lean into his own vision. And he kept fighting Warner Brothers at every turn.

Every time he wanted to do something, it was meddled with.

That's why the cut, the final cut that was in theaters was 30 minutes shorter than what the ultimate edition was because things kept getting with by Warner Brothers. So this. Wow. Man of Steel, I think, was a very Warner Brothers DC version of a Zack Snyder movie.

This, I feel like, especially knowing the background and internally what was going on, this movie was definitely. You could see the waring factions of Warner Brothers wanted this. Zack Snyder wanted to do this. And what came out versus Warner Brothers.

Drew

00:38:34.276 - 00:38:35.140

A lot of justice.

Seth

00:38:35.220 - 00:39:10.934

Yeah. And I think what came out of it in the theatrical version was just a bumbling mess outside of a couple of things.

And even with the extended cut, which cleaned up some things that people had complaints about. Again, this is why I do consider it to be the weakest of the three films, is because there was. I don't think he was allowed to have his vision.

I think Warner Brothers, and we've seen this more. As Kevin Feige has become more and more micromanaging with the Marvel movies.

Instead of just letting directors do their thing, I think they became so micromanaging that, that it was very difficult for him to do what he wanted to do.

Host Kyle

00:39:11.022 - 00:39:19.014

Yeah, Yeah. I just, I don't like the trend. I just. It's not really a trend, but I like if I, I hope it doesn't become one. This like. Just kidding.

Seth

00:39:19.062 - 00:39:19.862

Here's the. Here's what.

Host Kyle

00:39:19.886 - 00:39:34.982

Here's the real movie. Like, I get it. Like, there's a better movie out there and I get it. Whether it's the direction director of the studio.

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not really, like, here to give you multiple shots with movies. I have too many to watch and too many to cover that. I'm like, oh, look, they, they, they, they took the movie I hated and.

Drew

00:39:35.006 - 00:39:36.278

They re released it.

Host Kyle

00:39:36.414 - 00:39:39.590

Maybe I'll like it this time. Oh, and it's three hours longer, I think.

Seth

00:39:39.630 - 00:39:50.054

I.

Yeah, I mean, it's all Peter Jackson's fault because he made incredible theatrical versions of Lord of the Rings and then put out the extended versions, and somehow they were just as good, if not better.

Host Kyle

00:39:50.142 - 00:39:50.406

Yeah.

Seth

00:39:50.438 - 00:39:55.168

And so that became kind of the expectation. But even his extended version of King Kong was. Was terrible.

Host Kyle

00:39:55.264 - 00:39:55.584

Yeah.

Seth

00:39:55.632 - 00:39:56.976

It did not need to happen.

Host Kyle

00:39:57.048 - 00:40:02.272

But the Lord of the Rings were great at the beginning. They started great. And like, oh, he put out more great.

Seth

00:40:02.376 - 00:40:02.848

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:40:02.944 - 00:40:06.512

I don't like seeing and then saying, oh, they added more stuff to.

Seth

00:40:06.616 - 00:40:16.016

Well, that's the thing is, previous to that, director's cuts were usually just seen as putting the director's deleted, like, favorite deleted scenes back in the movie.

Host Kyle

00:40:16.048 - 00:40:19.104

They didn't really add or more violence. Yeah, the violence, they couldn't.

Seth

00:40:19.152 - 00:40:20.224

Like an unrated cutter.

Host Kyle

00:40:20.272 - 00:40:24.224

And it usually equates to eight to 10 minutes, if that of extra footage.

Seth

00:40:24.272 - 00:40:33.596

Peter Jackson and. And S.N. snyder, at this point are really the only two directors that I've seen do extended cuts that really change the dynamic of the movie.

Host Kyle

00:40:33.628 - 00:40:33.932

Yeah.

Seth

00:40:33.996 - 00:40:37.212

And I think his extended cut of Watchmen is way better than the original version.

Host Kyle

00:40:37.276 - 00:40:37.564

Yeah.

Seth

00:40:37.612 - 00:40:48.540

I think obviously his cut of Justice League is better than what Joss Whedon put out. But this one, again, while I do think it cleaned up some stuff, I think you would have even more complaints if we watched the theatrical version.

Drew

00:40:48.620 - 00:41:11.664

Well, and I'd seen it. I don't think I'd seen the ultimate one until this watch.

I think the only one I'd ever seen was the theatrical one, because I think one of the things that I thought was positive was a scene that I either missed or it wasn't part of the theatrical version. But when. When Superman goes to Gotham and is learning about the vigilante.

Yeah, that I remember when I was watching that, I was like, oh, I don't think this was in the.

Seth

00:41:11.752 - 00:41:12.720

I don't think so either.

Drew

00:41:12.800 - 00:41:19.984

And now that was a scene that, like, to me, added. It added because you're setting up the momentum between the two of them. So.

Seth

00:41:20.072 - 00:41:36.886

So, yeah, I definitely can agree this is not a perfect movie. And I also think when we get to the scorecard, my biggest complaint is going to come with the physical writing of the script.

So I'm sure we're all actually going to agree there. But I don't think it's the shitstorm. People act like it is online.

Host Kyle

00:41:37.038 - 00:41:38.934

I don't know. I kind of want it to be a shitstorm.

Drew

00:41:38.982 - 00:41:43.334

I don't think it's the shitstorm, but I don't think it's the magnum opus either.

Seth

00:41:43.382 - 00:41:54.534

No, it's not, though. See, that's the thing is this one especially is not his magnum opus. And even in the. Like I said, in that extended cut, I can see.

See where you had two people pulling on the rope, trying to go different directions.

Host Kyle

00:41:54.582 - 00:41:54.854

Yeah.

Drew

00:41:54.902 - 00:42:21.118

I also don't love nowadays that like. Like, and it's. Especially with the DC universe, like.

Like, look, we all have bosses we've had to work for that suck and make us have to play their ways. And, like, I don't like how, like, it's so common knowledge about the dc. Like, it's. I. I am stressed out because of the knowledge for the.

Like, I shouldn't have that when I go to a movie. Like, it should just be a movie.

Seth

00:42:21.214 - 00:42:38.286

Well, this has all come out since the movie came out. Like. Like, a lot. Even. A lot of this came out after Ray Fiser sued Warner Brothers and Jaws Weeden over their behavior on Justice League.

So we'll get to that next time. But, yeah, a lot of this wasn't out at the time.

Host Kyle

00:42:38.358 - 00:42:38.590

And.

Seth

00:42:38.630 - 00:42:58.178

And it's. It's now only looking back that I can. I can really see, oh, this is what happens when studios don't let directors just do their thing.

Sure have opinions. A lot of times things will get changed, and it's for the better. There have been.

I think we've talked about a couple examples where studio execs came in and were like, change this, and it was actually better in the long run.

Host Kyle

00:42:58.234 - 00:42:59.202

Cross City of Angels.

Seth

00:42:59.266 - 00:43:01.986

Yeah, exactly. But for this, it's. It's.

Drew

00:43:02.098 - 00:43:04.690

It's one of those, like, why that movie so much?

Seth

00:43:04.810 - 00:43:14.972

Why hire a director with such a specific visual style of storytelling if you're just gonna cripple him while he tries to do what he does?

Host Kyle

00:43:15.076 - 00:43:15.356

Yeah.

Seth

00:43:15.388 - 00:43:28.828

Same thing with, like, Edgar Wright doing Ant Man. Like, why would you hire someone who literally has one of the most distinctive visual styles in all of film history?

It'd be like telling Wes Anderson to not make everything symmetrical.

Host Kyle

00:43:28.924 - 00:43:29.292

Yeah.

Seth

00:43:29.356 - 00:43:34.348

Like, why the fuck would you hire Wes Anderson then if you didn't want a perfectly symmetrical movie the whole time?

Host Kyle

00:43:34.404 - 00:43:34.716

Right.

Seth

00:43:34.788 - 00:43:41.974

And that's what I feel like happened with this, is they hired a very distinctive director, and we're trying to tell him not to do his thing.

Drew

00:43:42.062 - 00:43:43.942

They basically want him to make Marvel movies.

Seth

00:43:44.006 - 00:43:44.614

Yeah. Literally.

Host Kyle

00:43:44.662 - 00:43:45.030

Yeah.

Seth

00:43:45.110 - 00:43:48.726

And even though his goal was to not make Marvel movies.

Host Kyle

00:43:48.838 - 00:44:04.006

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Next question.

What do you think Batman would have liked Superman better If he had the trunks, I just think that automatically kind of lifts up the likability. Even though he may be a nuclear weapon that's going to destroy us. Those trunks, those are pretty cool.

Drew

00:44:04.038 - 00:44:22.628

It makes it more humanized. It's like, oh well, maybe he has bad passion too. Like, so do humans maybe. No, I, I think he would have wanted to kill him more.

I don't think he would have stopped. I don't. I think even once he realized that he's got a name his, his mom's named Martha, he'd be like, yeah, but those red trunks gotta go.

Host Kyle

00:44:22.684 - 00:44:26.436

Yeah. And like the Martha scene, it would have been like, is she the one that put the red trunks on you?

Seth

00:44:26.588 - 00:44:47.500

Did she dress you? Yeah, no, I feel like, I feel like like on set Batman hated Superman so much because they hadn't edited his dick out yet.

So the whole time he's just staring at the massive that he has and he's just like, well, I can't please Jennifer the way you can. Be it Garner or Lopez.

Host Kyle

00:44:48.320 - 00:45:05.462

Amazing Rando. There were some really funny ones, including this one.

Christian Bale only had one piece of advice to Ben Affleck that was put a get a zipper on the suit. Because going to the bathroom is not easy if you don't have a zipper on the suit.

Seth

00:45:05.526 - 00:45:06.150

Love it.

Host Kyle

00:45:06.270 - 00:45:09.830

So he actually did it. He actually had the costume department put a zipper on it.

Seth

00:45:09.870 - 00:45:10.342

Hell yeah.

Drew

00:45:10.406 - 00:45:16.326

Can you imagine going to a public bathroom and peeing next to you and Batman?

Seth

00:45:16.438 - 00:45:30.938

Yeah, that'd be kind of great.

It's like when Aragorn Vigo was shooting Lord of the Rings, he would leave set in full costume with his sword because he wanted to like live the character as much as he could. And people were just like, yeah, there's a crazy guy swinging a sword just walking down the street.

Host Kyle

00:45:31.074 - 00:45:31.338

Yeah.

Drew

00:45:31.354 - 00:45:42.778

I mean like I imagine most people when he's dressed, it's on you set. You know there's a bathroom nearby to go, but you know there had to have been like one Uber Eats.

Dude, that was just dropping off a pastrami sandwich.

Host Kyle

00:45:42.954 - 00:45:43.402

Yeah.

Drew

00:45:43.466 - 00:45:50.282

And before just uses the restroom and he's like, oh, there's this Batsuit has a zipper.

Host Kyle

00:45:50.426 - 00:45:50.986

Yeah.

Drew

00:45:51.098 - 00:45:53.018

Seriously, best thing we ever came up with.

Host Kyle

00:45:53.074 - 00:45:55.930

You guys just, you gotta drop trout ankle. Just go number one.

Seth

00:45:55.970 - 00:45:56.138

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:45:56.154 - 00:45:58.006

Ye like a five year old.

Seth

00:45:58.078 - 00:46:05.798

Now was it a zipper down the back or was it a zipper like those shorts where you could take the legs off around the waist so he could use them like pants.

Drew

00:46:05.894 - 00:46:07.190

Breakaway bat.

Host Kyle

00:46:07.270 - 00:46:11.062

Oh my God. Remember convertible, like convertible Pants.

Seth

00:46:11.206 - 00:46:12.102

Oh, my God. Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:46:12.166 - 00:46:14.102

Zipping off the legs. And they were cargo.

Seth

00:46:14.166 - 00:46:14.534

Yep.

Host Kyle

00:46:14.582 - 00:46:15.414

What were they doing?

Seth

00:46:15.502 - 00:46:16.598

I had those when I was.

Host Kyle

00:46:16.654 - 00:46:22.390

I did, too. Yeah. It's like, oh, when are you in a situation where on the spot, you need to zip your legs off?

Seth

00:46:22.430 - 00:46:28.550

Yeah. You know, hey, sometimes it starts kind of cool, and then it gets warm and your legs need ventilation.

Host Kyle

00:46:28.630 - 00:46:28.886

Yeah.

Seth

00:46:28.918 - 00:46:30.662

So you just do the knees, but.

Host Kyle

00:46:30.686 - 00:46:33.170

Then you just got to. You got to tote your legs around.

Seth

00:46:33.550 - 00:46:35.062

You know, the cargo pockets.

Host Kyle

00:46:35.126 - 00:46:36.934

That's right. Okay, now it's all making sense.

Drew

00:46:36.982 - 00:46:42.806

I was an exceptionally dorky individual as a child, but even I looked at those, and you're like, no.

Host Kyle

00:46:42.878 - 00:46:43.318

Yeah.

Drew

00:46:43.414 - 00:46:44.630

No, no, thank you.

Seth

00:46:44.670 - 00:46:45.846

Where'd you grow up?

Drew

00:46:45.998 - 00:46:47.014

Brentwood, Tennessee.

Seth

00:46:47.062 - 00:46:55.402

Oh, okay. I was. I grew up in Georgia, so the humidity was like. It'd be kind of nice in the morning. And then, too, you'd be like, no, the. The pants are.

The pant legs are coming off.

Host Kyle

00:46:55.586 - 00:46:59.722

Yeah. Christian Bale isn't the only body transformation guy.

Drew

00:46:59.786 - 00:47:00.170

Oh.

Host Kyle

00:47:00.250 - 00:47:10.282

Ben Affleck gained 20 pounds of muscle and got down to 8% body fat for this. I actually had a question I didn't have time for, but I was like, did anyone else enjoy the. The. The steroid era? Batman?

Seth

00:47:10.346 - 00:47:11.258

Oh, yeah.

Host Kyle

00:47:11.434 - 00:47:14.522

This is the Mark McGuire Batman here.

Drew

00:47:14.706 - 00:47:17.770

When they showed him, like, working out to fight Batman.

Seth

00:47:17.850 - 00:47:18.280

Oh.

Drew

00:47:18.370 - 00:47:18.764

Which.

Seth

00:47:18.852 - 00:47:19.628

Such a good.

Host Kyle

00:47:19.764 - 00:47:20.716

Yeah, I did like that scene.

Drew

00:47:20.748 - 00:47:24.972

It was like, okay, good effort, but also not going to help.

Host Kyle

00:47:25.076 - 00:47:25.760

Yeah.

Drew

00:47:26.180 - 00:47:38.124

The tech. Maybe it was so he could wear all that armor. Like, the tech help, but him thinking like, oh, crap, I got to fight Superman soon.

I got time for about three good workouts probably, and you're going to laugh.

Host Kyle

00:47:38.172 - 00:47:48.986

As much as I criticize the Martha scene, I laughed my ass off thinking about it myself, about how funny it was, all the working out he did. That's only the whole fight. I'm thinking, like, it's so funny. Worked out for this, really. Yeah.

Seth

00:47:49.018 - 00:47:54.794

Well, granted, remember, he was under the assumption. Correct assumption that he was going to be shooting him with kryptonite dust.

Host Kyle

00:47:54.842 - 00:47:55.114

Yeah.

Seth

00:47:55.162 - 00:47:56.842

So, I mean, he did even the odds.

Drew

00:47:56.906 - 00:48:08.842

It was interesting because, I mean, this. This goes back to the best critique to Batman.

It's not necessarily bad, but it is a critique because everyone's always like, well, he's not a real superpower. He doesn't have super. You know, he doesn't have superpowers. Not a real superhero.

Seth

00:48:08.906 - 00:48:11.466

Even though technically his superpower is being insanely smart.

Drew

00:48:11.538 - 00:48:17.078

He's the world's greatest, and in every plot, it always goes back to, well, Batman will figure out a way.

Seth

00:48:17.134 - 00:48:17.510

Yeah.

Drew

00:48:17.590 - 00:48:21.750

And so like his plot armor is his superpower. Yeah, his superpower.

Seth

00:48:21.830 - 00:48:22.998

Always. Absolutely.

Drew

00:48:23.094 - 00:48:38.278

So.

And it's, it's, it when watching this movie, like, you're not annoyed by it, but you're like, it's, it's, it's not unlike when you were watching Zod vs Superman and you're like, I can't tell. They're evenly matched. Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:48:38.294 - 00:48:39.030

Who's ahead here?

Drew

00:48:39.070 - 00:48:47.814

Yeah, like, like I know. Because realistically, Superman could end the battle from the moment it started.

Host Kyle

00:48:47.902 - 00:48:48.406

Yeah.

Drew

00:48:48.518 - 00:48:55.942

But his humanity and Batman's quick thinking are always reasons why they appear evenly matched. And we as viewers just have to.

Host Kyle

00:48:55.966 - 00:49:11.814

Be like, okay, yeah, I did like the callback. Even though I don't know all the comics, I do know that, like one of the interesting things about Batman in the comics is how he's brainy.

You know, there are, there's a whole detective aspect and there's not a lot of detective Batman here. But this was a nice little callback to that. Yeah.

Seth

00:49:11.862 - 00:49:17.158

I mean, there was enough of it with him trying to figure out who slash, what the, the White Portuguese was.

Host Kyle

00:49:17.214 - 00:49:17.734

Yeah.

Seth

00:49:17.862 - 00:49:32.534

So I, I, I, I did enjoy because that was kind of significantly less in the original version. I like that we got to see him actually looking for information on how to get the kryptonite. I thought that was cool. Do you mind if I do a rando?

Host Kyle

00:49:32.582 - 00:49:34.806

Please. Rando it up. Rando.

Seth

00:49:34.918 - 00:49:58.148

Jesse Eisenberg, I hope this isn't one of yours.

But, but Jesse Eisenberg, when he got the news that he had booked Lex Luthor, got so excited that he immediately went and shaved his head and showed up on set. And Zach goes, oh, hey buddy, we were gonna use your hair for most of the movie.

And so that's why he has the God awful wig for the whole movie, is because he got too excited and shaved his head immediately.

Drew

00:49:58.244 - 00:49:59.652

Wow, that's hysterical.

Seth

00:49:59.796 - 00:50:01.300

So we would have had his.

Drew

00:50:01.420 - 00:50:05.924

Isn't that more like something the character of Lex Luthor as he portrays would do?

Host Kyle

00:50:06.012 - 00:50:07.956

And here's the thing, like after pcp.

Seth

00:50:08.068 - 00:50:40.530

He had just come off of the Social Network and playing Mark Zuckerberg. So I think like that's kind of where Zack Snyder's head was, was. Oh, he's gonna look like a Mark Zuckerberg type tech guy. So that'll work.

And then I think the biggest mistake with Lex Luthor's character in this was giving him that weird long hair. I think they should have gone for something a little more traditional tech, bro. With the way his hair was. So that the.

The look of it definitely did throw me for. Probably when I first saw the first 30 minutes of the movie.

Host Kyle

00:50:40.950 - 00:50:43.022

Patagonia jacket. That's all he needed.

Seth

00:50:43.086 - 00:50:45.006

Exactly. But just the vest. Not the full jacket.

Host Kyle

00:50:45.038 - 00:50:45.406

Exactly.

Seth

00:50:45.438 - 00:50:51.582

Even though it's cool, if he'd had his natural hair, I think the character would have been received a little bit better.

Host Kyle

00:50:51.686 - 00:50:58.462

Well, it actually links perfectly to another rando I have later, which is. In a lot of interviews, Jesse Eisenberg has said that this hurt his career.

Seth

00:50:58.526 - 00:50:59.646

Yeah. Unfortunately, it did.

Host Kyle

00:50:59.718 - 00:51:08.456

He say he got passed over. He knows for a fact he's been passed over and roles since because they. They remember it. And then you tie it back to the hair thing.

This whole thing was a cluster for Jesse Eisenberg.

Seth

00:51:08.518 - 00:51:32.260

I feel so bad for him because I. I love what he did with the character. I love he was given whatever he was given. Agree with it or not.

He was given what he was given and he went 110% with it. I think even though some could consider his acting to be over the top, I think for that type of character, he did a really good job.

I think he was on par with Paul Dano as Riddler in the Batman. I think he was a very similar level character.

Host Kyle

00:51:32.340 - 00:51:32.884

Yeah.

Drew

00:51:33.012 - 00:51:37.214

I just. I think if. I think it would have been better for his career if they called him not Lex Luthor.

Seth

00:51:37.292 - 00:51:37.626

Fair.

Drew

00:51:37.698 - 00:51:40.190

Literally any name, including not Lex Luthor.

Host Kyle

00:51:40.610 - 00:51:43.754

I think Paul Dano put his foot right in Eisenberg's ass.

Seth

00:51:43.842 - 00:51:44.314

Oh, yeah.

Host Kyle

00:51:44.362 - 00:51:48.250

In this. I mean, he's. Yeah. And I didn't even like the Batman, but I love that.

Drew

00:51:48.370 - 00:51:51.754

I would have loved to see more Ben Affleck. Batman. I would love to see.

Seth

00:51:51.842 - 00:51:52.186

Oh, yeah.

Drew

00:51:52.218 - 00:51:56.170

I would love to see some independent or. Independent movies. Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:51:56.250 - 00:51:56.506

Yeah.

Drew

00:51:56.538 - 00:52:15.580

Like, I would have loved to see him in a standalone movie. I would have loved to. It's just. It was it.

And it felt like even looking when you look at the Justice League and even when you look at the Flash, it feels like he was. He was going to be the equivalent of like, Iron man. As in, like the staple hero.

Seth

00:52:15.660 - 00:52:16.320

Yeah.

Drew

00:52:17.940 - 00:52:37.894

Difference, though is, you know, Chris Evans, Captain America was equal to Iron man as far as cinematography, performance, everything. And I know we disagree on this, but like Superman in this movie. And then even. And then it gets even worse in the Justice League. Like, it just.

He just is.

Seth

00:52:37.982 - 00:52:39.606

Well, he's dead for half the movies.

Host Kyle

00:52:39.718 - 00:52:40.294

Yeah.

Drew

00:52:40.422 - 00:52:45.670

Yeah, he's there. But it's like, okay, Galga Gal Gadot gets a better performance.

Host Kyle

00:52:45.790 - 00:52:46.134

Yeah.

Drew

00:52:46.182 - 00:52:49.702

As Wonder Woman than. Than Henry Cavill does as Superman.

Host Kyle

00:52:49.766 - 00:52:50.278

Yeah.

Seth

00:52:50.374 - 00:52:52.166

Yeah, we'll talk about that next week.

Host Kyle

00:52:52.238 - 00:52:53.286

Rando.

Seth

00:52:53.398 - 00:52:54.330

Rando.

Host Kyle

00:52:54.910 - 00:53:05.006

This is crazy. The studio had a really hard time because Nolan was worked on the last one.

They were really having a hard time figuring out, like, what this Batman was going to be.

Seth

00:53:05.078 - 00:53:05.326

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:53:05.358 - 00:53:10.974

And they were really concerned that they weren't going to be able to distinguish between this and the Nolan Batman.

Seth

00:53:11.022 - 00:53:11.342

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:53:11.406 - 00:53:25.022

So they actually, he.

For a while, he considered casting Christian Bale in a different role just so that when people went to see the movie, they knew they were not getting Nolan Batman. It's like, hey, look, he's over here. Christian Bale's over here. He's not Batman.

Seth

00:53:25.086 - 00:53:25.822

So glad they didn't.

Drew

00:53:25.886 - 00:53:28.864

That is still, like. I don't feel like that would have helped at all.

Host Kyle

00:53:28.952 - 00:53:29.712

It would have been worse.

Seth

00:53:29.776 - 00:53:32.640

That's one of the best studio decisions, was to not do that.

Drew

00:53:32.760 - 00:53:39.744

Someone who didn't like the performance would be like. They literally had Christian Bell over there playing the newspaper guy.

Host Kyle

00:53:39.792 - 00:53:46.720

Yes. And because of the nature of the whole canonization thing, like, then just how comic book fans are, the minute that Bale is a different character.

Seth

00:53:46.800 - 00:53:47.104

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:53:47.152 - 00:53:57.060

And athletes, like, is that as real? You know, that people are gonna be like, wait a second, Is that. Is that the real Wayne? Is it, like, people would just.

I think it immediately, immediately would have exploded the movie in the worst possible way.

Seth

00:53:57.100 - 00:53:59.124

Did he prestige this movie? What the.

Drew

00:53:59.292 - 00:54:03.972

I think they did a good job of, you know, Batman in this universe is older.

Seth

00:54:04.036 - 00:54:04.372

Yeah.

Drew

00:54:04.436 - 00:54:10.036

And so that set apart the difference between Christian Bale's Batman and Ben Affleck's Batman.

Seth

00:54:10.068 - 00:54:10.324

Yeah.

Drew

00:54:10.372 - 00:54:28.044

And I also think as the movies were going on, it be. It was becoming more clear that this is an alternate dimension. This is Earth 2. This is the.

This is the multiverse, which doesn't matter to either you guys. Probably. But, like, there's like, the universe where the injustice storyline happens is, like, the most fucked up of the universe.

Seth

00:54:28.092 - 00:54:28.364

Yeah.

Drew

00:54:28.412 - 00:54:40.332

Like, it's the one where all the superheroes become evil. It's the one where, like, the world's dark. And as.

As you're watching the Snyderverse, Superman and Justice League movies, you're thinking, this is where this is headed.

Seth

00:54:40.396 - 00:55:04.022

Yeah. For me, it's like I look at this movie as what would have been chapter 2 of 10.

And I feel like people saw this movie and immediately decided every other chapter was going to suck just because they had one part of the story they didn't like. I feel like if Snyder had been able to finish everything, people would Be looking back on this movie a lot kinder.

Host Kyle

00:55:04.086 - 00:55:04.774

Yeah, maybe.

Drew

00:55:04.822 - 00:55:07.862

But we got a few extra of those chapters, and they were.

Seth

00:55:07.886 - 00:55:08.930

We got one more.

Drew

00:55:10.120 - 00:55:12.352

Oh, I guess Snyder's chest. Yeah.

Seth

00:55:12.416 - 00:55:25.504

So Snyder didn't really have anything to do with, like, Suicide Squad or even Aquaman or like, he. I think the one he had the most input on was Wonder Woman, just because that came out right after Batman vs Superman.

Drew

00:55:25.552 - 00:55:30.672

Still, when you're three movies out of ten in, and the last was Justice League.

Host Kyle

00:55:30.856 - 00:55:31.600

Yeah.

Seth

00:55:31.760 - 00:55:34.256

Well, no, no, this was two. And then.

Drew

00:55:34.328 - 00:55:42.950

Well, you had this one, then you had Justice League. I'm not saying that I would have loved. I would have loved.

I would love to go peek into a different universe and see what the rest of the movies looked like.

Seth

00:55:42.990 - 00:55:43.302

Yeah.

Drew

00:55:43.366 - 00:55:51.910

I'm just saying that it makes sense after this movie and Justice League that they were like, this is. Although I guess that's not. No, he left because.

Seth

00:55:52.030 - 00:56:04.450

He left because. Yeah, his. One of his kids committed suicide. And what sucks is his movie was almost done. Like, literally the.

The six months that he took to finish the movie. When he did it, that's all they had left to finish his version.

Drew

00:56:04.530 - 00:56:10.434

So I would have loved to see his interpretation on the rest of the movies, although the rest of the movies that are out.

Seth

00:56:10.602 - 00:56:15.554

Well, did you. Have you read the synopsis of what his. His further movies were going to be?

Drew

00:56:15.642 - 00:56:16.898

I've read bits and pieces.

Seth

00:56:16.994 - 00:56:34.570

I would encourage you before we hit Justice League just to see that. Just because in context of what he was trying to do, I understand the decisions he made along the way.

And it just got cut so short that a lot of things that he was setting up in man of Steel were going to pay off in Justice League 2. So.

Host Kyle

00:56:34.950 - 00:56:35.982

Just didn't do it justice.

Seth

00:56:36.046 - 00:56:38.170

Exactly. Just didn't league it. Well.

Drew

00:56:39.670 - 00:56:41.690

It was only a league of its own.

Host Kyle

00:56:43.510 - 00:56:56.790

Oh, doomsday Last rando. While Seth's assigning reading assignments here, so this is really crazy. You are probably the biggest Hans Zimmer fan in the world.

You've seen him how many times? And once. Oh, but you're seeing him again.

Seth

00:56:56.830 - 00:56:57.478

I'm seeing him again.

Host Kyle

00:56:57.534 - 00:56:59.382

But you saw him not too long ago.

Seth

00:56:59.486 - 00:57:01.046

I saw him back in September. Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:57:01.078 - 00:57:04.022

So you're in 12. In 12 months, you're seeing him twice.

Seth

00:57:04.086 - 00:57:05.622

Well, yeah, that's because I didn't think he was coming here.

Host Kyle

00:57:05.646 - 00:57:13.542

I'd call you. I'd call you a fan at that point, especially if you're going to battle that Nashville traffic.

I'm old and have four kids, and that's how I measure anything. I do. I was like, well, I literally walk.

Seth

00:57:13.566 - 00:57:14.518

To Bridgestone from here.

Host Kyle

00:57:14.574 - 00:57:22.700

Yeah, not me, man. If there's traffic and a parking issue, I'm not going. That's just. Even if I have to go like Nosferatu, I want to see that as I got a park, you know.

Drew

00:57:23.240 - 00:57:26.464

Is that why we ended up never going to see that movie? Is that you're just thinking parking?

Host Kyle

00:57:26.512 - 00:57:29.296

No. I have four kids, and one of them probably knocked me unconscious with something.

Seth

00:57:29.368 - 00:57:32.896

Yeah. And I probably didn't want to drive out to the IMAX to see it out there.

Host Kyle

00:57:32.968 - 00:57:35.136

Traffic. I heard it was going to snow in three weeks.

Seth

00:57:35.208 - 00:57:35.792

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:57:35.936 - 00:58:02.532

Definitely not going to risk it. No, it just. It felt totally fell off my radar, as many things do.

But Hans Zimmer was excited to work on this, but he only wanted to do the man of Steel stuff. He did not want to do. Or he wanted to do Superman.

He brought in someone named Junkie XL to do all the Batman stuff because he said he didn't feel like, because of his experience with the other franchise, he didn't want to have to do it from scratch again. And he wanted someone else to, like, kind of do their own interpretation, which.

Seth

00:58:02.556 - 00:58:03.236

I think is fair.

Host Kyle

00:58:03.308 - 00:58:03.700

Yeah.

Seth

00:58:03.780 - 00:58:09.572

And then he actually went on to do the entire score. Junkie XL wanted to do the entire score for the Snyder cut of Justice League.

Host Kyle

00:58:09.596 - 00:58:16.938

And I actually really like it. Yeah. Just that. That one. So, yeah, it's really cool. And Zimmer's has so much. I mean, I like it because he has so much clout. He doesn't.

Drew

00:58:17.084 - 00:58:17.630

Right.

Host Kyle

00:58:17.750 - 00:58:18.942

It's like, this is my score.

Seth

00:58:19.006 - 00:58:19.294

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:58:19.342 - 00:58:21.342

It's not a composer battle. You know, he's just like.

Seth

00:58:21.366 - 00:58:37.358

Sure. Well, it's common knowledge that he has a. Basically a people factory for making his scores.

Whenever Hans Zimmer is credited for a score, there's probably three or four other composers that came up with themes that he then went in and fleshed out to be the entire score of them.

Drew

00:58:37.414 - 00:58:42.014

I love it. Because he's finding work for those other people, too. Well, that's the thing, you know, like most of.

Seth

00:58:42.102 - 00:59:02.368

Most of the modern people doing scores other than Hans Zimmer. And, like, the classic people actually went through his pipeline.

So he's actually been putting out people who are then going on to do their own scores and win awards. So he's actually one of the few people that has that kind of setup that is actually doing it well to benefit the people that are working with him.

Drew

00:59:02.424 - 00:59:02.992

That's cool.

Seth

00:59:03.056 - 00:59:03.728

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:59:03.904 - 00:59:12.480

Shall we. Dawn of Justice? Shall we seek justice. Shall we fly. I'm getting so bad at that part. That part.

Seth

00:59:12.520 - 00:59:13.952

Justice, sir. I barely know her.

Host Kyle

00:59:13.976 - 00:59:16.260

Hey, Justice. Zimmer.

Drew

00:59:18.340 - 00:59:19.580

Zimmer. On it. I don't know.

Host Kyle

00:59:19.620 - 00:59:21.820

Yeah, Yeah, I got my Zimmer back.

Seth

00:59:21.860 - 00:59:22.460

Yeah.

Host Kyle

00:59:22.620 - 00:59:38.956

All right, Reminder. Snare Snyder Barely knowers. Positive. Yes, we dig it. And super bad is if we don't like it, which perfect. Yes. I am so stoked about that top bill cast.

And that's Ben Affleck is Bruce Wayne and Batman. Henry Cavill as Clark Kent. Superman, and Amy Adams as Lois.

Seth

00:59:39.148 - 00:59:40.940

Was that really the only top build cast?

Host Kyle

00:59:41.020 - 00:59:41.420

Yeah.

Seth

00:59:41.500 - 00:59:42.316

Interesting. Okay.

Host Kyle

00:59:42.348 - 00:59:45.306

Yeah, There's. Typically, three is, like, the most I would have put.

Drew

00:59:45.468 - 00:59:47.086

Well, I would put a Jesse Eisenberg.

Seth

00:59:47.118 - 00:59:47.950

Yeah. I would have put him up there.

Host Kyle

00:59:47.990 - 00:59:50.206

Yeah. He's not in the same pay band as these three.

Seth

00:59:50.278 - 00:59:51.450

Interesting. Fair.

Host Kyle

00:59:52.390 - 00:59:53.806

And he shaved his head, so.

Seth

00:59:53.878 - 01:00:06.046

Big problem, asshole. I give it a Snyder Barely know where. I think all. All three of them.

I know you're probably gonna disagree with me on Henry Cavill, but I think all three of them went all out for everything they did in these movies. In this movie. So, yeah, I liked it.

Drew

01:00:06.118 - 01:00:15.870

So how's it work? Like, what's the percentage of, like. Because I'm like. I'm conflicted. Like, 33 and a third each. So if I.

So if I feel like two out of three of them is I have to give it a Snyder Barely know her.

Seth

01:00:15.910 - 01:00:16.994

Yeah, I'd say so. That's ma.

Drew

01:00:17.062 - 01:00:44.514

Okay. Okay. Well, in that case, I'm gonna give it. I'm gonna give it a Snyder Barely knower.

I've already kind of expressed my opinions on I didn't feel like Henry. It's not that I don't think he could do better. I don't think he was given much to do. And so I.

So because I've seen him in other stuff where I like him a lot better. Ben Affleck, I always say he's done great. I would say any development we've had of Superman's character in this movie or, like.

Like, where we got to, like, see his human side and act.

Seth

01:00:44.562 - 01:00:44.818

Act.

Drew

01:00:44.874 - 01:00:51.282

I feel like Amy Adams brought it out of him. It was all. Is all. So, yeah, I. I feel like she acted enough for both of them in this movie.

Host Kyle

01:00:51.346 - 01:00:51.682

Yeah.

Drew

01:00:51.746 - 01:00:54.402

And so that's why I'm gonna give it a Snyder Barely knower.

Host Kyle

01:00:54.466 - 01:00:56.018

Okay. Did you already give yours?

Seth

01:00:56.034 - 01:00:56.274

Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:00:56.322 - 01:01:10.018

Right. Yeah, I. I. Kind of squeaky here. Squeaky Snyder. But mostly because. And this actually isn't necessarily Ben Affleck's Fall.

Actually, every scene Batman's in, I love. So the stuff I love most about this is Batman. I love how gigantic he is.

Seth

01:01:10.154 - 01:01:14.930

It was very contentious when they announced that he was going to be Batman. It was. Was one of the most divisive things.

Host Kyle

01:01:14.970 - 01:01:16.594

Absolutely. Oh, I thought it was a horrible idea.

Seth

01:01:16.642 - 01:01:16.962

Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:01:17.026 - 01:01:18.050

Just because I don't like him.

Seth

01:01:18.090 - 01:01:19.794

The people did. And I was like, yeah, I think you could do it.

Host Kyle

01:01:19.802 - 01:01:22.066

The stuff I like him most in is Kevin Smith films.

Seth

01:01:22.098 - 01:01:22.258

Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:01:22.274 - 01:01:27.586

When he works with Jay and Silent Bob stuff. Other than that, I do not. I do not love him. Or I love Chasing Amy.

Seth

01:01:27.618 - 01:01:28.162

Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:01:28.306 - 01:01:34.050

But he was so big and hulking. I liked it. The only thing for me was. And again, this is a costume choice we'll talk about later.

Seth

01:01:34.090 - 01:01:35.810

But you didn't like the zipper.

Host Kyle

01:01:35.890 - 01:01:38.994

Yeah, not enough zippers. I want zippers everywhere.

Drew

01:01:39.122 - 01:01:40.768

Really needed to be more zippers.

Host Kyle

01:01:40.954 - 01:01:56.772

Besides the fact that he's acting differently with branding people, I didn't see enough other markers that he had necessarily aged. Like his back. Like he. What, didn't have like a walker. Like, I just like gray hair.

Just give me something to show that gray hair a little bit, but not.

Seth

01:01:56.796 - 01:01:58.628

Noticeable enough for a 50 year old.

Host Kyle

01:01:58.684 - 01:02:00.916

Really. I didn't think it was. I didn't think there was really like.

Seth

01:02:00.988 - 01:02:03.892

Actually, if anything, he would have been in his, his mid to late 40s.

Host Kyle

01:02:03.956 - 01:02:11.150

Really. I mean, I just didn't get he was old version Batman enough. Like, I only knew that because I knew the context. But I, I feel like he also.

Seth

01:02:11.190 - 01:02:13.086

Said 20 years several times.

Host Kyle

01:02:13.238 - 01:02:13.614

Yeah.

Drew

01:02:13.662 - 01:02:18.702

I'll say physically he looked like he could have been like same age group.

Host Kyle

01:02:18.806 - 01:02:19.134

Yeah.

Seth

01:02:19.182 - 01:02:26.046

Remember though, my dad is 60 and. Or 64 and a bodybuilder. So I mean. Yeah, it's possible to be that old and look that good.

Host Kyle

01:02:26.118 - 01:02:26.462

Yeah.

Drew

01:02:26.526 - 01:02:34.362

I think what made him old looking to me was like. I mean, you could just tell with the things he was talking about. The, the man's been through some stuff.

Host Kyle

01:02:34.426 - 01:02:34.810

Yeah.

Drew

01:02:34.890 - 01:02:42.186

Like when he, like when it. To me it's when you. The big thing was like when it showed like Robin's uniform. I was like, there's a story there.

Host Kyle

01:02:42.258 - 01:02:44.298

Yeah. Like when he punched Robert E. Lee in the face.

Seth

01:02:44.354 - 01:02:45.034

Yeah. Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:02:45.082 - 01:02:46.298

He's fucking old. Yeah.

Drew

01:02:46.314 - 01:02:47.034

Like he's just.

Host Kyle

01:02:47.122 - 01:02:47.674

He's. Yeah.

Drew

01:02:47.722 - 01:02:50.586

That gave me like geriatric vibes.

Seth

01:02:50.618 - 01:02:50.826

Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:02:50.858 - 01:03:01.068

Okay. All right. Again, I give it a. I give it a Snyder. Barely knower. I just, you know, something a little older pills, you know, Medicaid, something.

Drew

01:03:01.204 - 01:03:04.220

Maybe the Bat. Batmobile is like a Cadillac.

Host Kyle

01:03:04.300 - 01:03:05.500

Yeah, yeah.

Seth

01:03:05.580 - 01:03:13.532

I think he did a significantly better job at looking older than. Than Christian Bale did in Dark Knight Rises. Yeah, Christian Bale looks exactly the same he looks at the beginning.

Host Kyle

01:03:13.596 - 01:03:14.684

Yeah. Yeah.

Seth

01:03:14.732 - 01:03:17.132

That was 10 years later. So, I mean, and maybe it was.

Host Kyle

01:03:17.156 - 01:03:31.140

The workouts, like, because the workouts were like, listen, I'm an. Like, I do work out, but I'm average. Like, I work out to stay in shape, not to. Not to be like your pops, you know?

But those workouts were intense, and he was looking jacked, and I was just like. Like, that's not old man workout.

Drew

01:03:31.220 - 01:03:32.564

Take some Tylenol before.

Host Kyle

01:03:32.652 - 01:03:41.460

Yeah. Something, you know. You know, you. I gotta drink my prune juice, right? Yeah, something instead of the red trunks.

You know, for him, it could have been a depends, you know?

Drew

01:03:41.500 - 01:03:42.100

Absolutely.

Seth

01:03:42.180 - 01:03:44.160

This was my dad at 60.

Host Kyle

01:03:44.620 - 01:03:45.124

Damn.

Seth

01:03:45.172 - 01:03:49.812

Yeah, we can. I can send this to you to put in the podcast so people can see. Yeah, that is my dad.

Host Kyle

01:03:49.876 - 01:03:50.548

I'll let you know.

Drew

01:03:50.604 - 01:03:52.500

He looks like he's ready to fight Superman.

Seth

01:03:52.580 - 01:03:55.540

Very possible to look jacked as hell.

Host Kyle

01:03:55.620 - 01:03:58.780

All right. That's dad, ladies and gentlemen. Holy.

Seth

01:03:59.120 - 01:04:00.648

Yeah. You like the trunks?

Host Kyle

01:04:00.744 - 01:04:11.448

Yeah, I'm actually adding. He's the new Affirmative. Seth's dad is. Yes, we like it. Yeah. Bodybuilder Scott, shout out to Seth's dad. Thanks for making a fantastic human.

Seth

01:04:11.504 - 01:04:12.344

Yeah, we go. Thank you.

Drew

01:04:12.352 - 01:04:13.048

Good job.

Seth

01:04:13.184 - 01:04:15.048

Fantastic person to say that. Thank you.

Host Kyle

01:04:15.104 - 01:04:17.656

Really. Yeah. Well, wait till the IRS comes around.

Seth

01:04:17.728 - 01:04:19.540

Oh, they have many times this year.

Host Kyle

01:04:20.640 - 01:04:40.380

Supporting cast one to zero. And this is. Gotta pick and choose. This one here.

Jesse Eisenberg, Lex Luthor, Diane Lane, Martha Kent, Lawrence Fishburne, Perry White, Jeremy Irons, Alfred, Holly Hunter, Senator Finch, Gal Gadot. Man, this is just way down the list. Yeah, that would be Wonder woman, Scott McNary, Wallace Keefe, and then we'll stop there.

Seth

01:04:40.680 - 01:04:42.448

I. Again, I think.

Host Kyle

01:04:42.504 - 01:04:43.792

Scoot McNary. Sorry.

Seth

01:04:43.856 - 01:05:14.416

Ah. I think everybody did. Did their job. I think they put 100% into each of the characters they played. Like we were talking about in the last episode.

I was very happy to see more of Laurence Fishburne in this one. I think you really got to see, like, the compassionate hard ass that he was trying to be in the first one.

I think it really came across more in this where, yeah, he was a hard ass, but it still was like, okay, fine, you're doing the good thing. So here, take. Take the chopper, take the plane, whatever. But coach. Only coach.

Host Kyle

01:05:14.488 - 01:05:14.784

Yeah.

Seth

01:05:14.832 - 01:05:22.080

So, like, I don't know. I. I think he did really well as. As you said. I think Diane Lane he did even better in this one than she did in the first one.

Host Kyle

01:05:22.120 - 01:05:22.740

Yeah.

Seth

01:05:23.190 - 01:05:51.384

I think this was a solid introduction to Gal Gadot as, as Wonder Woman. And Diane, I love kind of the. You weren't quite sure if she was Wonder Woman until, like, right before she comes in as Woman. So.

And disagree with me about Jesse Eisenberg all you want. I think he played a modern tech bro on cocaine to the absolute fullest. And I think he, I loved his performance. Performance.

So, yeah, I give it a Snyder barely know Snyder.

Host Kyle

01:05:51.432 - 01:05:54.060

Barely know. Or Scott's dad. Yes. Or Seth's dad.

Drew

01:05:54.720 - 01:07:22.808

Yeah, I, I, I agree. I, with Lawrence Fishboyar. And he did a great job of a Perry White.

I, I wanted to hear at least once a Great Caesar's ghost, because that's, like, thing he says all the time. But then it would have been really good under his breath when he didn't say it.

It was a reminder, like, oh, this is like, like we're not, we're going away from typical mythology for. And it's fine. I thought everyone did. The senator was a minor character, but she, she did well at her job. So. No, this was.

I would give her a Seth's dad. I'd give her Seth's dad. And I do think this is.

We've talked about this a few other movies where, whereas I may not love the writing and, like, the overall plot that I was looking at, the actors did a really good job. And so it had, I mean, it has a great cast and fun fact about Gal Gadot in this movie that I didn't know until this rewatch. And I looked it up.

There was a scene where she's. When she's fighting Doomsday, and after she, like, slashes him, she has, like, a light smile, like, showing that she's kind of enjoying it.

Yeah, that was entirely improv and not part of it. She just, they caught her do that randomly and to me, like, like fits the character in that moment.

And I don't know if she just thought, hey, after I slice this CGI nothing imaginary thing, I'm gonna give a smile because Wonder Woman probably would do that.

Host Kyle

01:07:22.864 - 01:07:24.152

But what a gal.

Drew

01:07:24.216 - 01:07:27.928

Or maybe. Yeah, or maybe she fell and caught herself and was really proud of, you know.

Host Kyle

01:07:27.984 - 01:07:28.408

Wow.

Drew

01:07:28.504 - 01:07:30.860

Anyway, fun, fun facts.

Seth

01:07:31.680 - 01:07:32.568

A good job.

Drew

01:07:32.704 - 01:07:36.540

Yeah. I'm gonna go with Seth's dad on Seth dad.

Host Kyle

01:07:37.230 - 01:07:40.262

I went super bad here. And interesting.

Seth

01:07:40.326 - 01:07:42.486

I'm sorry, but is it just because of Jesse Eisenberg?

Host Kyle

01:07:42.518 - 01:07:43.078

No, not just.

Seth

01:07:43.134 - 01:07:43.958

The math does not work.

Host Kyle

01:07:44.014 - 01:07:50.214

It's mostly that, but I'm Gonna go, I'm gonna go on a limb and call Jesse Eisenberg. Malpractice.

Drew

01:07:50.342 - 01:07:51.222

Okay here.

Host Kyle

01:07:51.326 - 01:09:09.736

That was unwatchable. I hated him every time he was on screen. I, it's funny, I've been in tech for a long time, been around a lot of tech bros. I, I, I, it's funny.

Like, I, I'm just like, yeah, he's got some of that to him. But the, I don't know, I just, the way he talked, his mannerisms, the hair. I was just. And also over three hours is a lot of them.

I just was like, God, there's a lot of Jesse Eisenberg here. And what's funny is I love him like Social Network. I was like, he was perfect. Yeah, I've loved him.

In fact, I can't watch Mark Zuckerberg interviews because I'm like, that's not what Mark Zuckerberg's like. He's like in the movie, he's Jesse Eisenberg. That's actually my, he's, that's my thing. But I, I couldn't stand him.

Also, Lawrence Fishburne is one of my favorite actors. He's been in so many of my all time favorite movies. And I hated him here. I hated what he does here.

And I realize there's probably some tie back to the comics where the things he's saying, the headlines, I thought they were cheesy, drove me insane. And I'm just like, they have turned my Lawrence Fishburne into a headline spouting empty vessel here. He's more than that.

And I hated everything he did here. And he's one of my all time favorites, so I can't believe they made me hate him. I don't love this interpretation of Alfred.

Drew

01:09:09.928 - 01:09:11.140

Oh, good point.

Host Kyle

01:09:11.440 - 01:09:16.200

I do not like it. It's, it's, I don't like it. I just don't, I don't like it.

Seth

01:09:16.320 - 01:09:21.304

As much as I love Andy Circus, I think he's way better than Andy Circus. Is Alfred in the Batman?

Host Kyle

01:09:21.432 - 01:09:22.616

Yeah. Yeah.

Seth

01:09:22.648 - 01:09:25.400

I don't get me wrong, Michael Kane will always be the goat.

Host Kyle

01:09:25.480 - 01:09:29.848

I don't like the Batman at all. Like, literally, Paul Dano is the only thing I liked about it.

Drew

01:09:29.904 - 01:09:30.424

Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:09:30.552 - 01:10:26.400

Because I like Paul Dano a lot and I think. But yeah, it was like there will blood mixed with Batman. But yeah, I didn't, I just, yeah. Holly Hunter is, is good.

Scott Scoot McNary is Wallace Keith, the guy in the wheelchair. It's always funny because sometimes like with John Ham, I'm like, why doesn't he get more lead roles in movies, you know, and.

And I'm like, he's such a good actor in Mad Men. But he. Scoot McNary was in Halt and Catch Fire, which is a fantastic AMC show.

It's kind of low underrated because it came out before like a lot of these great movies. But it's about the computer industry, how it came into. Came to be. He was fantastic in that.

And then I see him here, I'm like, God, no wonder he doesn't get more stuff outside of shows. I'm like, this is awful. I hated what he did. So it. This was a dying lane. Fantastic. Again. Keeping the ship afloat. Holly Hunter. Was Holly Hunter here?

Fantastic. But everything else. Jesse Eisenberg. My God. Yes. No wonder you're getting passed up on. But you guys. Yeah. That was my one rant for the show.

Seth

01:10:26.440 - 01:10:26.848

There we go.

Drew

01:10:26.904 - 01:10:29.936

Like, I want to go on record say I forgot about Alfred in this movie.

Host Kyle

01:10:29.968 - 01:10:30.224

Yeah.

Drew

01:10:30.272 - 01:10:31.344

And I completely agree.

Host Kyle

01:10:31.432 - 01:10:32.744

Yeah. Do not.

Seth

01:10:32.832 - 01:10:34.584

So what was wrong with Alfred?

Host Kyle

01:10:34.632 - 01:10:38.904

He just. He's just too. He's too energetic, too helpful. I just.

Seth

01:10:39.072 - 01:10:42.152

That's literally. Have you seen the Animated series?

Host Kyle

01:10:42.256 - 01:10:42.568

No.

Seth

01:10:42.624 - 01:10:43.496

He basically.

Host Kyle

01:10:43.608 - 01:10:45.160

I'm watching it with my animated series.

Seth

01:10:45.200 - 01:10:47.224

One which people consider to be the greatest. Alfred.

Host Kyle

01:10:47.272 - 01:10:55.000

Okay, well, I'm going to watch it with my son and yeah, please. Maybe we'll put out a Kyle's cut. A Castro cut of this podcast where I go back and fix all the. I said that was wrong.

Drew

01:10:55.080 - 01:10:58.898

Batman anime series is hands down the best animated series series of.

Host Kyle

01:10:58.954 - 01:11:00.226

I'm starting it with my 10 year old.

Seth

01:11:00.298 - 01:11:00.498

Yeah.

Drew

01:11:00.514 - 01:11:03.938

But make sure it's like the. The 90s one or whatever. Not the. Not. There's a.

Seth

01:11:03.994 - 01:11:05.826

There's a fourth season that's not right.

Drew

01:11:05.898 - 01:11:08.514

There's five. The other ones are fine. But like. Anyway.

Host Kyle

01:11:08.562 - 01:11:11.010

Is that the Robin Williams Batman? I'm just kidding.

Drew

01:11:11.170 - 01:11:14.338

It's. It's Mark Hamill as the Joker, which I hope people.

Seth

01:11:14.474 - 01:11:16.162

Yeah. Kevin Conroy.

Drew

01:11:16.306 - 01:11:17.030

Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:11:17.850 - 01:11:19.810

He's also. He's in the Arkham Games.

Seth

01:11:19.850 - 01:11:20.114

Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:11:20.162 - 01:11:22.194

Oh, Kevin Conroy. Rest in peace. He's fantastic.

Seth

01:11:22.242 - 01:11:23.058

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Host Kyle

01:11:23.154 - 01:11:25.122

Probably my second favorite Batman. Is that weird?

Seth

01:11:25.186 - 01:11:26.018

No, not at all.

Host Kyle

01:11:26.074 - 01:11:26.782

I love him.

Drew

01:11:26.906 - 01:11:27.382

I.

Seth

01:11:27.486 - 01:11:30.950

He's probably my number three behind Adam west and Christian Bale.

Host Kyle

01:11:31.030 - 01:11:32.390

I love Kevin Conroy.

Drew

01:11:32.550 - 01:11:55.794

Interesting that these. This role for Jesse Eisenberg and Lawrence Fisher. Fish. Oh my gosh. Lawrence Fish. Fishboard Fishbourne. It's interesting that. Yeah.

Those guys, it is so different than their regular roles and it. It is like it. I forgot that he was in this movie. Not Jesse Eisenberg. The other guy.

Seth

01:11:55.802 - 01:11:56.722

Who's Jeremy Irons.

Drew

01:11:56.786 - 01:11:57.026

Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:11:57.058 - 01:11:57.362

Yeah.

Drew

01:11:57.426 - 01:11:59.030

So. But it's fine.

Host Kyle

01:11:59.610 - 01:12:34.954

2 to 0. It's so weird when you, like, go in real hard on your rant. You still didn't get. You didn't make a mark on the scorecard. Damn it. I went hard. I'm not.

And I was talking to him on the way over. I was like, I'm not really a negative person, but you're about to be nice. And I tried, and I got shut down. Yeah. Writing.

And that would be Jeremy Siegel. Joe Schuster created Superman giving all the credits here. Bob Kane. Bill Finger for Batman Creators.

But the character of Wonder Woman created by William Moulton Marston. You have enough names. Chris Terrio and David S. Goyer. Writers.

Seth

01:12:35.002 - 01:12:35.690

Wrote the script.

Host Kyle

01:12:35.770 - 01:12:36.474

Wrote the script.

Seth

01:12:36.522 - 01:12:43.578

I think. I think we're probably all going to agree maybe for different reasons on this. It is going to just squeak under for me.

Host Kyle

01:12:43.634 - 01:12:43.946

Okay.

Seth

01:12:43.978 - 01:12:45.610

And it is going to be a super bad.

Host Kyle

01:12:45.730 - 01:12:46.394

Super bad.

Seth

01:12:46.482 - 01:13:04.962

Again, I do consider this to be the weakest of the three movies. I. I. There. There is just nothing specific I can point to, but just the kind of overall vibe of the dialogue I.

I do feel like was a little bit limited compared to the other two movies.

Host Kyle

01:13:05.026 - 01:13:05.362

Yeah.

Seth

01:13:05.426 - 01:13:20.854

Three movies, really, that we're gonna watch. So, yeah, I, I give it a super bad. It's not my favorite. I don't think it's terrible. That's why. That's why it just squeaks under.

It's like a 4.9 for me. Like, like, not. Definitely not the worst dialogue. I've never. I've ever seen. It's definitely no shitty of angels, but.

Host Kyle

01:13:21.022 - 01:13:22.130

Oh, come on.

Seth

01:13:22.910 - 01:13:26.054

But definitely, you know, nothing special about it.

Drew

01:13:26.142 - 01:13:30.902

Deal. On the episodes that I haven't been here. Have you still referenced shitty of angels.

Host Kyle

01:13:30.966 - 01:13:32.918

As the Wicked Prayer? It's referenced.

Seth

01:13:33.094 - 01:13:34.246

And the Deftones.

Drew

01:13:34.278 - 01:13:34.950

I'm glad that we've all.

Host Kyle

01:13:34.990 - 01:13:37.702

Because Tara Reed was in the last. The Big Lebowski.

Drew

01:13:37.766 - 01:13:40.646

Oh, yeah. So, yeah, we remember when she was.

Host Kyle

01:13:40.798 - 01:13:42.210

She said her final prayer.

Seth

01:13:42.310 - 01:13:51.510

He literally texted me and he was like, how. How in the world did she go from the Big Lebowski to Wicked Prayer? And I was like, remember American Pie happened in between those.

Drew

01:13:53.810 - 01:14:37.234

I'm going to go. I'm going to go super bad as well. And to me, it's not even. Like there's. I don't even need all the qualifications.

I could just take two of them and I would be fine. 1. I feel like they butchered Superman to the dialogue. Satire. I talked about Not a fan of the dialogue 3.

They should have separated the movies into two movies. They should have ended with the Batman versus Superman and bringing. And with a slight reference to Wonder Woman in the scene.

But then bringing everything that happened with Doomsday on. That could have been. I mean, the Death of Superman is such a well known comic. That could have been the part three of this thing.

And it would have given them more time to focus on that part because it really kind of rushed through it.

Seth

01:14:37.322 - 01:14:38.578

Have you seen Snyder cut yet?

Drew

01:14:38.634 - 01:14:41.906

Would have given the ultimate. The one we just watched.

Seth

01:14:41.938 - 01:14:43.490

No, no. The Snyder cut of Justice League yet.

Drew

01:14:43.530 - 01:14:44.866

Have you seen it? Yes, I have.

Seth

01:14:44.938 - 01:14:50.530

Okay. Because to me it kind of had to happen because that's literally where Justice League begins, is the death of Superman.

Drew

01:14:50.610 - 01:14:58.226

I'm sure I'll have. Well, they could have put the Doom. They could have had Batman v Superman and then they could have had Doomsday.

Seth

01:14:58.338 - 01:14:58.850

Sure.

Drew

01:14:58.970 - 01:15:27.786

And that would have been so. And then.

And then also someone in the writer's room, whoever was the guy that said, okay, here's the 20 comics I want to reference in this and the different plot points I want to draw from. Someone should have been like, hey, here's an idea. How about like 10? How about 10 to 15? Make it a more.

There's a lot of material and it's surprising me that these are all like professional people that are working in Hollywood that nobody was like, hey, this seems like a lot.

Host Kyle

01:15:27.858 - 01:15:28.538

Yeah.

Drew

01:15:28.714 - 01:15:33.488

So I'm going to go. Go super bad. I'm gonna go, so worse than super bad.

Host Kyle

01:15:33.544 - 01:15:48.032

So super awful. Yeah, super. I go super as well. I. Malpractice is another word I want to use again. The Flash dream sequence.

Drew

01:15:48.176 - 01:15:50.096

Oh yeah. Is forgot about.

Host Kyle

01:15:50.168 - 01:15:50.912

Out of control.

Seth

01:15:51.016 - 01:15:51.648

I love that.

Host Kyle

01:15:51.704 - 01:15:53.200

I don't know what's going on.

Seth

01:15:53.320 - 01:15:56.560

You're not supposed to. It's setting up something that's gonna happen in four movies.

Host Kyle

01:15:56.640 - 01:16:11.110

I know, but. But I'm so like deep and like just pretext here and like, is he dreaming? Is he having visions? And I.

The thing is that Flash is not wearing like, again, I'm coming to this. I'm not like familiar with the Flash outside of like images.

Seth

01:16:11.190 - 01:16:13.238

Nothing to do with the comics. This has nothing to do.

Host Kyle

01:16:13.294 - 01:16:20.006

I know, but he's. I didn't recognize him as it took me listening to something else to actually confirm, like, okay, that was Flash in that moment.

Seth

01:16:20.038 - 01:16:46.270

I don't think you're totally supposed to though, because it's supposed to be very confused, confusing moment because you don't really meet Flash until Justice League. And then on top of that, this is a moment where they're in the nightmare scenario of Darkseid has basically converted Superman over to that point.

And so at the end of that movie is when they send Flash back to this moment. This moment was not supposed to be something to pay off until way later. So you're supposed to be confused.

Host Kyle

01:16:46.350 - 01:16:48.530

So he's just a guy that pops out of nowhere.

Seth

01:16:49.670 - 01:16:51.074

You see those videos of the Flash.

Drew

01:16:51.102 - 01:17:10.970

Flash later in the sense of what you're saying. The actual point where they bring that back is in the Flash movie, which happens like four movies later with a different director currently.

So it is fair that you're watching this with none of that knowledge and you're like, what is this?

Host Kyle

01:17:11.090 - 01:17:17.114

Yes. Yeah, I'm just like. And then all of a sudden, Batman's got a machine gun. You know, I'm just all of a.

Seth

01:17:17.122 - 01:17:18.906

Sudden, he has them everywhere.

Drew

01:17:19.098 - 01:17:29.024

That's another problem I have with the writing is it would have been so much more powerful if they only had him kill in the future, post apocalyptic, to make you think, like, wow, what has happened?

Seth

01:17:29.152 - 01:17:33.312

No, I mean, I disagree because again, we're 20 years into it and he's branding people and killing people.

Drew

01:17:33.336 - 01:18:18.388

But even, even Batman 20 years, even when you look at, like, the Batman beyond comics and stuff like that, he still has his no killing rule.

The only times you ever see Batman have his killing rule suspended is when, like in the injustice storylines when things are so bad and he's in this pot ostap. See, because I kind of viewed it when I was wondering that when I was watching it, when I was like, is he killing people?

That seems a little unbat man. But then my justification to myself, because sometimes you watch these movies and you try to make them good even if they're not.

And so my justification was, oh, he's. It's just movie where, like, they accidentally hurt themselves but they're not dead.

But then when you see the post apocalyptic stuff when he's just mowing people down, I'm like, oh, that's because life really sucks right now and he's become a murderer.

Seth

01:18:18.494 - 01:18:25.384

Yeah, I disagree. I mean, it's kind of like what you said at the beginning of this podcast. This is just a movie where, oh, okay, Batman kills people. Like, that's.

That's.

Host Kyle

01:18:25.432 - 01:18:25.704

Yeah.

Seth

01:18:25.752 - 01:18:26.248

Thing.

Host Kyle

01:18:26.384 - 01:19:15.146

I also think. I just think some of the pieces that were written in here were. Were forced to connect. Like, I still. I still don't think I. I know we disagree.

I just don't think we needed another watching Wayne's parents get killed just so we could say Martha later. I seriously think that's why it's there. That and then reasons. It's one of the reasons. And that. But. But I think the Martha thing's kind of dumb.

So I just like, you know, it's the supporting piece of the stupid thing that I don't like. And I think, yeah, I. Some of the, just some of the. The plot devices to the twists and turns, I'm just not. I'm also just not following in this story.

And I don't feel like I'm a dumb person, but I'm kind of having a hard time just kind of following along. And after the flash scenes when I kind of just like. And I get what you're saying, it's supposed to pay off later. But.

But the fact that I'm like is that flash. Like I know there's a flash eventually and.

Seth

01:19:15.218 - 01:19:26.826

But again, that's literally what he was trying to do. He was it because he had the master plan and Warner Brothers was doing everything they could to up that master plan. It seemed like he had no plan.

Host Kyle

01:19:26.898 - 01:19:28.170

Doesn't make me like it anymore.

Drew

01:19:28.250 - 01:19:35.834

Even with the plan for this work hard note, I would have to. And I hate again, I hope we.

Seth

01:19:35.842 - 01:19:36.666

All agree on this.

Drew

01:19:36.738 - 01:19:39.562

I hope Zack Snyder never listens to this and gets his feelings.

Seth

01:19:39.626 - 01:19:41.034

I am going to show it to him personally.

Drew

01:19:41.082 - 01:19:48.822

Yeah, but that to me, all the little things for future movies that didn't pay out. I'm like, that's bad writing.

Host Kyle

01:19:48.966 - 01:19:49.942

Yeah, yeah.

Drew

01:19:50.006 - 01:19:50.966

It's better than.

Seth

01:19:51.038 - 01:20:06.758

You know, again, you're looking at chapter two where he's setting up things for chapter seven and being like, well that's dumb that he would say that here. That's not going to do what.

And then you only get chapter three and then it's like, oh, that's all fucking stupid because you don't get to see the end of the book.

Host Kyle

01:20:06.894 - 01:20:22.930

All right, two to one. Sorry. We got it. We got to get this going. It's 4:30 now. Yeah, I know, I know. We just got to get to the end of the card somehow. Two. Two to one.

Snyder barely know we're directing. Mr. Zack Snyder, you start.

Drew

01:20:23.950 - 01:20:40.220

All right, I'm going to. I do think he. I'm. It's tough because we didn't get to see his finished product. So what of this movie we did what we've. Oh, okay, good. Point of the.

Oh, well then if it's just of this movie, then Superbad.

Host Kyle

01:20:40.350 - 01:20:41.280

Yeah, yeah.

Drew

01:20:41.360 - 01:20:52.560

Sorry. I was really.

Thank you for that because I was putting together this whole thing and I was like, I don't feel comfortable saying super bad based off of just three out of ten or whatever. But if we're just facing. Oh, for one. Yeah, super.

Host Kyle

01:20:52.680 - 01:20:53.460

Yep.

Seth

01:20:54.040 - 01:21:01.392

No, I give it to him. I. Snyder. Barely an hour. I, I, again, I, I don't have any of the problems y'all apparently have with this movie.

Host Kyle

01:21:01.456 - 01:21:01.744

Yeah.

Seth

01:21:01.792 - 01:21:04.048

I don't understand the problems. I accept that y'all have.

Host Kyle

01:21:04.104 - 01:21:06.420

I read. Read it. That's why. I'm just kidding.

Drew

01:21:06.840 - 01:21:08.160

If you were able to go into.

Host Kyle

01:21:08.200 - 01:21:10.812

That, you haven't been on the chat lately.

Seth

01:21:10.876 - 01:21:46.542

Oh, you're right, I haven't. Not in the last six months. No. Actually, it's been more like a year. I don't know. I think he did a good job.

I think, I think what he did with the visual tone of the movie. I disagree with you. I think he did take Superman's character in an emotional journey. Yeah, I think he did a great job.

I think he directed the movie that was given to him script wise, the best way he possibly could have. I think the fight scenes are some of the absolute best fight scenes I've ever seen in a superhero movie.

Even the biggest haters of this movie all say, but that Batman warehouse scene was fucking awesome.

Host Kyle

01:21:46.606 - 01:21:48.094

Yeah. Like, yeah, that is a cool scene.

Seth

01:21:48.142 - 01:21:48.654

It just.

Drew

01:21:48.742 - 01:22:07.696

I've been liked the Batman vs Superman scene before and I almost, like, I know one of the critiques is like, they didn't fight long enough. Like, we build up this. Sure. But. And I, I could, I could have used some more.

I would have loved to see Batman get into like, the Batmobile or his plane to try to take on like, like just get bigger and more ridiculous with the.

Host Kyle

01:22:07.768 - 01:22:08.816

Get more tools.

Seth

01:22:09.008 - 01:22:21.824

But the thing I love about that fight scene specifically is you literally just have two tanks going at each other. And it is slow. It does look a little clunky. But again, it's because they're tanks.

Host Kyle

01:22:21.872 - 01:22:22.192

Yeah.

Seth

01:22:22.256 - 01:22:28.068

Neither one of them is supposed to be someone who's, who's super agile in this type of situation. It's a fist fight.

Host Kyle

01:22:28.124 - 01:22:28.404

Yeah.

Seth

01:22:28.452 - 01:22:40.996

And I, I think, Yeah, I think Snyder with, with the script that was given to him, which I'm sure had a lot of his input, but also a lot of the studio's input was what it was. And I think he did the best that he could with it. So. Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:22:41.028 - 01:22:41.236

Yeah.

Seth

01:22:41.268 - 01:22:42.596

Snyder. Barely know her.

Host Kyle

01:22:42.748 - 01:22:49.680

I go super bad here and I just don't. I'm not seeing. It's funny that man of Steel was supposed to be three and a half hours.

Seth

01:22:50.300 - 01:22:56.414

I don't think that's true. I think I. Because when you put out the. The first cut of any movie, it's over three hours.

Host Kyle

01:22:56.502 - 01:23:01.730

Yeah, well, that's what he intended it to be. Well, but he eventually got his way when they re released these cuts.

Seth

01:23:02.150 - 01:23:04.942

I think he meant for it to fully be that way with man of Steel.

Host Kyle

01:23:05.006 - 01:23:11.262

Yeah. But I mean, maybe not. The research I found said he wanted the three and a half hour cut out there, but.

Seth

01:23:11.366 - 01:23:12.670

Interesting. I've never heard that about.

Host Kyle

01:23:12.710 - 01:23:15.022

Well, maybe not. Maybe it's. Maybe it's just a Reddit myth.

Seth

01:23:15.086 - 01:23:15.534

Possibly.

Host Kyle

01:23:15.582 - 01:23:27.676

Just kidding. But I don't think more Zack Snyder's better here. I. I'm often the plot devices I find muddle the story versus progresses it. I'm confused oftentimes.

Seth

01:23:27.868 - 01:23:29.520

But again, you're talking about writing.

Host Kyle

01:23:30.020 - 01:23:32.588

Well, I mean, yeah, but what I'm seeing on screen, I'm just not.

Seth

01:23:32.644 - 01:23:34.988

He didn't touch the script though. He didn't write the script.

Host Kyle

01:23:35.084 - 01:23:42.412

I know, but it wasn't. He didn't. He didn't. He's not presenting me with anything here. I just don't. Well, I don't like what I'm seeing. Let's just.

Drew

01:23:42.516 - 01:23:43.676

Wasn't directed well.

Host Kyle

01:23:43.748 - 01:23:46.428

Yeah, this is not, this is not a ride I like being on.

Seth

01:23:46.484 - 01:23:46.972

Interesting.

Host Kyle

01:23:47.036 - 01:23:53.940

Yeah, I don't like like, you know. And also here's the thing. I hate to put this back on Nolan, but I just feel like Nolan.

Seth

01:23:55.000 - 01:23:56.720

Well, he was pretty hands off by this one.

Host Kyle

01:23:56.760 - 01:24:15.418

Oh yeah. I just think he's masterful and, and the way he's, you know, he's told these types of stories even though it's a little different.

It's with his, you know, Batman stories. But I just think the grandiosity of the Nolan thing is this like he nailed it.

And I know that we're trying to be grand here, but I'm just, yeah, I'm just. I'm not enjoying the ride. I don't like where I'm at.

Drew

01:24:15.474 - 01:24:27.130

I feel like I'm watching with all the movies, I feel like. With all of the Snyder movies, I feel like I'm watching abstract art.

And I've never been a big appreciator of abstract art where when I look at something, someone else be like, this is the most beautiful thing.

Seth

01:24:27.250 - 01:24:28.122

That's what I love about it.

Drew

01:24:28.146 - 01:24:31.482

And I'll look at. I'll look at the same painting like it looks like a blur.

Host Kyle

01:24:31.546 - 01:24:32.074

Yeah.

Seth

01:24:32.202 - 01:24:36.170

I'm just excited to hear all the apologies about this. Once you all Watch Justice League.

Host Kyle

01:24:36.290 - 01:24:36.794

Oh, yeah.

Drew

01:24:36.842 - 01:24:43.528

Oh, I'm sure I've already seen it. I've already seen the four and a half year long one.

Host Kyle

01:24:43.584 - 01:25:02.472

To give him one compliment. Anytime Batman's on screen, I'm digging it. Like, I do like the Batman stuff. I think that stuff was done really well. But. Yeah. Anyway, I'm just.

I'm not enjoying the ride super bad. Not. Sorry. What's in front of us. Cinematography, production design, sound, costumes, editing.

Seth

01:25:02.616 - 01:25:06.424

I think y'all know my opinion. So y'all, y'all on it all you want.

Host Kyle

01:25:06.512 - 01:25:08.306

What, are you just backing out now?

Seth

01:25:08.488 - 01:25:10.190

I'll say my opinion after y'all are done.

Host Kyle

01:25:10.230 - 01:25:10.526

Okay.

Drew

01:25:10.558 - 01:25:13.134

Okay. I like that ending on a positive note.

Host Kyle

01:25:13.182 - 01:25:13.790

Yeah.

Drew

01:25:13.950 - 01:25:31.342

So if we take editing out of it, I would. I mean, when we talk cinematography, I love. I mean, it's such a visually appealing piece of work to see all the. And, and just as.

I don't, I don't know, all the things that goes into making a movie that beautiful, but they do a really good job of it.

Host Kyle

01:25:31.366 - 01:25:31.790

Right.

Drew

01:25:31.910 - 01:26:14.192

And then also with the soundtrack, that's very good. So all of the. What I'm seeing and hearing, like, it. It's presented very well. Yeah. The part of that qualification was editing.

And I'm kind of with you where, like, when I saw the shorter version, I was like. When I saw the longer version, I was like, still. So, like, so I don't. I think someone somewhere could have done something better.

And I probably think it's in the editing, but I'm not sure. But I'm gonna go ahead and give it a. Seth's dad Snyder, Barry Newer. Because.

Because, I mean, really, that is the redeeming factor of these movies is when you watch them, especially when you watch them on a big screen, you need.

Seth

01:26:14.216 - 01:26:14.944

To charge your lights.

Host Kyle

01:26:14.992 - 01:26:19.248

I charged. I charged them. They were on the chargers all night. We've just been. We've been going for a while.

Seth

01:26:19.304 - 01:26:19.952

We've been doing it.

Host Kyle

01:26:19.976 - 01:26:20.960

These are long episodes.

Drew

01:26:21.040 - 01:26:23.472

Yeah. We're doing the Snyder cuts of.

Host Kyle

01:26:23.496 - 01:26:24.128

Yeah.

Seth

01:26:24.304 - 01:26:26.032

These were not Harrison's fault, by the way.

Host Kyle

01:26:26.056 - 01:26:27.408

We outlasted the lights.

Seth

01:26:27.504 - 01:26:28.142

Yeah.

Drew

01:26:28.296 - 01:26:30.098

The lights were like, we're done with the movies.

Host Kyle

01:26:30.194 - 01:26:33.410

Yeah. Yeah. I just realized the battery life isn't great on those.

Seth

01:26:33.450 - 01:26:34.162

Yeah. Apparently.

Host Kyle

01:26:34.226 - 01:26:34.514

Yeah.

Seth

01:26:34.562 - 01:27:03.574

It's Snyder. Barely nowhere for me. I, I, again, like you said, I think it is visually incredible. I, I am a lover of abstract art. And I agree with you there.

There are so many moments, literally, like, my roommate came in as I was watching the end of it, and when he's being Passed down to Martha and Delois. It literally is. Is reminiscent of the. The. The Virgin Mary holding Jesus in that Renaissance painting.

There's a lot of stuff in it that reminds me of Renaissance.

Drew

01:27:03.702 - 01:27:06.770

When people relate Superman to Jesus. I do too.

Host Kyle

01:27:07.310 - 01:27:11.766

Well, that was a big marketing problem they had with man of Steel. Was. That was very much presented as a Christ story.

Seth

01:27:11.838 - 01:27:13.878

Yeah. It definitely. Yeah, I. I agree with that.

Host Kyle

01:27:13.934 - 01:27:15.254

Like, literal crucifix.

Seth

01:27:15.382 - 01:27:23.864

Yeah. But I. I genuinely think that, like, I love how he bases a lot of his visuals on, like, Renaissance wants type paintings.

Host Kyle

01:27:23.912 - 01:27:24.376

Yeah.

Seth

01:27:24.488 - 01:27:27.420

So. Yeah. No. What's in front of us. 100 Snyder.

Host Kyle

01:27:28.160 - 01:27:32.296

Yeah. I go super bad here just because of Doomsday.

Seth

01:27:32.328 - 01:27:32.856

Right.

Host Kyle

01:27:33.008 - 01:27:39.848

Doomsday looks like a turd with teeth. I hate it. I hate fighting CGI enemies. It has to be done, really.

Seth

01:27:39.904 - 01:27:43.420

Watch a superhero movie. Then I had to for the podcast.

Host Kyle

01:27:44.480 - 01:27:48.344

And you won the category, man. You won the war.

Seth

01:27:48.432 - 01:27:49.560

I'm still gonna roast you.

Host Kyle

01:27:49.600 - 01:28:02.318

Yeah. I. I don't like Doomsday. The. The look here. And I get it. Like, there's no way to practically do that character. I. I didn't.

I've not read the comics, but I did research. I mean, I know it was pretty spot on, but I don't like what I'm saying.

Drew

01:28:02.454 - 01:28:24.938

It was pretty spot on. Like. Or origin content. What he was is just like. It was like they made.

They could have made in any other character, named it Bill and I would have been better okay with it than what we got. Insane Doomsday. Actually, there's no empirical evidence that that is the comic Doomsday other than Jesse Eisenberg at one point. You.

You're gonna be Superman's Doomsday. He could have been Bill the space invader. We don't know.

Host Kyle

01:28:24.994 - 01:28:25.370

Could have been.

Seth

01:28:25.410 - 01:28:26.058

That's true. Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:28:26.074 - 01:28:27.322

It could have been a sewer monster.

Drew

01:28:27.386 - 01:28:27.866

Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:28:27.978 - 01:28:45.274

Which I think he was. I just don't like fighting big CGI things I didn't like. You know, I don't like this one reason I hate mcu. I hate watching anytime Hulk is on screen.

Hate it. I hate watching giant CGI objects take up a ton of space. Like, I think the best it was ever done was Lord of the Rings.

Seth

01:28:45.322 - 01:28:45.786

Oh, yeah.

Host Kyle

01:28:45.818 - 01:28:46.570

With Gollum.

Seth

01:28:46.650 - 01:28:46.954

Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:28:47.002 - 01:29:28.614

I. That. For some reason, that never bugged me, but I just never have seen it. In a way, with these superhero movies where I'm stoked about it.

I did not enjoy that. The editing, the pacing was way off. To me. There was some stuff that I.

I do not think should have made this cut that could have Maybe dried it up a little bit and made a little more succinct some of the decisions that were made that, you know. Yeah. Should have been left on the edit room floor. But I do love everything about Batman's costumes, his presentation. I do love all that.

So I love the way Batman was presented to us here. Yeah, some of the fight scenes were cool, definitely. But I can't, and I can't overlook the, the doomsday thing and the, but it doesn't matter.

You guys.

Drew

01:29:28.662 - 01:29:44.180

You guys, speaking of the cool fight scenes, did anyone else ever think that the, the cool scene with Batman saving his mom, did that not look just like one of the scenes in. I want to say it's the Dark Knight, where he, he gets the infrared and he's able to go in there and take out all the.

Seth

01:29:44.220 - 01:29:44.388

Oh.

Drew

01:29:44.404 - 01:29:46.740

Kind of like that's what it reminded me of a little bit.

Seth

01:29:46.780 - 01:29:48.036

Yeah. Yeah, I get that.

Host Kyle

01:29:48.188 - 01:29:50.228

Three to two. Here we go.

Drew

01:29:50.364 - 01:29:51.892

In case you guys are wondering my thoughts.

Host Kyle

01:29:51.956 - 01:29:57.908

Yeah, I love your thoughts. I love your thoughts. How good are these bad guys, huh?

Seth

01:29:58.084 - 01:30:13.124

I mean, we know where I'm going with this. I thought Jesse Eisenberg was great, and I thought Doomsday was fantastic. So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go.

Snyder, Barely nowhere, we're gonna see if it's a squeak for you, because I know you like, like, I'm not gonna say love, but like Doomsday, but don't like Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor.

Drew

01:30:13.172 - 01:30:25.540

No, it's the, it's the opposite. I, I, they should not have done Doomsday in this movie. They.

At the best, they should have put him in a different movie and then kind of like what you were saying made him not like a space turd, you know?

Host Kyle

01:30:25.580 - 01:30:26.228

Yeah.

Drew

01:30:26.404 - 01:30:36.676

Giant space turd. Here's the thing. I like Jesse Eisenberg's villain in this movie. I would have liked him so much better if they didn't name him, like, Lex Luthor.

Seth

01:30:36.708 - 01:30:36.964

Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:30:37.012 - 01:30:37.620

Yeah.

Drew

01:30:37.780 - 01:30:56.852

Because when you say to a comic book fan, when you say Lex Luthor already, I'm thinking this, and then what I saw was not. And I, and I appreciate the difference that they brought to the stake, but I just think, just name him something different.

Just create a new villain for this new type of Superman.

Host Kyle

01:30:56.916 - 01:30:57.560

Yeah.

Drew

01:30:59.260 - 01:31:01.080

I'm really on the fence.

Seth

01:31:02.060 - 01:31:03.956

I didn't expect it to be this close for him, actually.

Drew

01:31:04.028 - 01:31:05.936

I'm, yeah, I'm really on the fence with this.

Seth

01:31:06.028 - 01:31:10.200

So it'll be either a 5.1 or a 4.9, whichever direction.

Host Kyle

01:31:10.280 - 01:31:12.420

Think about how good it feels to. On something.

Drew

01:31:12.720 - 01:31:14.856

I do love. I do love shitting on things.

Host Kyle

01:31:14.928 - 01:31:17.224

How often do you get to just criticize somebody?

Drew

01:31:17.272 - 01:31:23.592

I'm gonna. I'm gonna go with a super bad. Oh, yeah, it's. It's. It's more that just came in his.

Host Kyle

01:31:23.616 - 01:31:25.224

Pants dirty to me.

Drew

01:31:25.312 - 01:31:25.576

Yeah.

Seth

01:31:25.608 - 01:31:27.340

His laptop's about to fry.

Host Kyle

01:31:28.000 - 01:31:28.696

Yeah.

Drew

01:31:28.808 - 01:31:31.844

Just because. Because. Yeah. I don't know. Internet.

Host Kyle

01:31:31.892 - 01:32:00.308

Oh, yeah. Oh, super bad. I don't know what else I could say. Jesse Eisenberg, Horrible doomsday turd. Really bad Jesse Eisenberg. Everything about his.

His interpretation, his portrayal here. Not interesting. Annoying every shot. Every time he was on the screen, I was like, God help me. So fighting the. Fighting the CGI monster.

Totally a turn off for me here. Yeah. Super bad. Sorry.

Drew

01:32:00.404 - 01:32:00.916

There we go.

Host Kyle

01:32:00.988 - 01:32:06.020

I just. Yeah. It's three to three with one category left. Oh, my God.

Seth

01:32:06.100 - 01:32:07.620

Curious to see what this category is.

Host Kyle

01:32:07.660 - 01:32:10.996

We can't let this thing go to the finish line. Good lore.

Seth

01:32:11.188 - 01:32:12.280

Oh, yeah.

Host Kyle

01:32:13.900 - 01:32:24.580

Not good Lord. Good Lord. Do we stick? You know, and again, I approach this as a non comic book reader interpreting. It just.

Does this hook me into the lore more and you guys have a little more context? But it.

Seth

01:32:24.620 - 01:33:24.246

Yeah, see, okay, this is one where I feel like the greater context of what he was trying to do is appropriate to bring in. Because again, with, with.

And even with the first Justice League movie, the, the things, the details that he puts in, not only is he pulling from other comics, but he's putting details in as far as, like. Well, I mean, because at the very end of this, we see Steppenwolf, that's going to be the main villain of Justice League.

Like, he's very purposefully setting up bricks for each of his next movies that he's planning on doing. I like the details that he pulls in. I. I think, Yeah, I think it's a Snyder barely knower.

Like, I, I think he does a very good job at setting up what his universe is. Whether you like the movie at the end of the day or not. I think it's very hard to deny that the details are there.

The details of him setting up whatever his version of the lore is. Even though he's pulling from a couple of details, different comics, and as that going for it, he sets up what he's doing very well.

Host Kyle

01:33:24.318 - 01:33:25.050

Yeah.

Drew

01:33:25.710 - 01:33:27.210

So when you have a pizza.

Host Kyle

01:33:27.550 - 01:33:28.214

Yeah.

Drew

01:33:28.342 - 01:33:31.270

It's important to have good ingredients, as Papa John's always told us.

Host Kyle

01:33:31.310 - 01:33:31.798

Yeah.

Drew

01:33:31.894 - 01:34:57.508

So having the good background comics and the good lore from the different sources he had is important. He's grabbed from a lot of good ones.

But equally as important when you make a pizza is when you actually put it together and you cook it and you do the right portions and do the right actual culinary.

So that at the end of the day, the thing you're giving someone is actually a good tasting pizza, which be like, overall, what we got with Justice League and what we got with Batman versus Superman. And so for. By that logic, yeah, he's pulling from a lot. He is a knowledgeable comic book guy and he's pulling a lot of good things.

But I just feel like what he delivered us with, what he pulled out is. Is super bad to me. I just, I did, I did. I didn't think his. I thought it was.

It'd be, it'd be cool nods if the payouts justified the nods that he gave. And since you did, you did say we were allowed to look at the greater of the other movies as well. And so since I know we're also his master plan.

So since I know we're going at least just going into the next couple movies because they did continue to take some of what he was doing into the other movies.

It's just, it's just I, I appreciate the attempt to do something different and a little bit more unique or whatever, but like it often, frequently when I'm watching these movies, I'm like, okay, like, I mean, fair. But overall it's not like, wow. I loved that interpretation of literally anything in these movies.

Host Kyle

01:34:57.604 - 01:34:58.276

Yep.

Drew

01:34:58.388 - 01:35:07.006

So I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go super bad, but not as super bad. I mean, I was passionate about the writing. Super bad. I'm just like, I. Super bad.

Host Kyle

01:35:07.078 - 01:35:54.174

Yeah. No. Interesting. Yeah. For me, the, you know, this category has to be. Does it make me. Does it draw me to want to know more? I actually gave this a.

A Snyder barely know where I'm going to steal like that. He's just chopping at the bed over here on man of Steel because I was like, oh, this is. This is for the first time ever, I.

I'm not like in love with this, but I've never liked Superman and this actually gave me one that I like and could it explore more. But here I just feel like it's convoluted. There's.

There's callbacks built into future films and I understand the master plan thing, but I'm watching this movie now today and just thinking it's a slug. It's. I'm sluggishly getting to the end. I like everything Batman do.

But another thing I Realized about this story, lore wise, is, like, I didn't realize how much of what I love about Batman are the Batman villains.

Seth

01:35:54.222 - 01:35:54.494

Yeah.

Drew

01:35:54.542 - 01:35:54.750

Right.

Host Kyle

01:35:54.790 - 01:36:04.554

And I'm missing that part of it, too. Like, and I. Again, I realize that's not this story, but I'm just realizing, like, man, Batman minus. Minus Joker, minus Scarecrow.

Like, there's so many great vil. Villains.

Seth

01:36:04.602 - 01:36:04.874

Yeah.

Host Kyle

01:36:04.922 - 01:36:08.010

And I'm just kind of missing them here, even though I like what Ben Affleck's doing.

Seth

01:36:08.050 - 01:36:16.362

But part of that, I think, has to do with the Superman source material, though. I don't think Superman's villains are anywhere near as good as Batman's villains.

Host Kyle

01:36:16.426 - 01:36:16.714

Yeah.

Seth

01:36:16.762 - 01:36:46.414

So I get that. I mean, even. Even if we just go the most traditional route, I don't think Zod is as strong of a character as the Joker would be.

I don't think that Brainiac is as good of a character as the Riddler would be. I don't think, like, Lex Luthor or. Yeah, Lex Luthor is as good as anyone. Like Falcone in the mob.

Like, I think I agree with you that part of Batman's charm is the villain, and Superman's source material just doesn't have the quality that Batman's does.

Drew

01:36:46.502 - 01:36:56.494

I agree with everyone except for Lex Luthor. Lex Luthor and the Joker have been frequently proven as, like, the two archetypes are all villains.

Host Kyle

01:36:56.542 - 01:36:57.150

Yeah, sure.

Seth

01:36:57.190 - 01:37:02.906

But Lex Luthor bored me in the Animated series. Every time Lex was the main villain in the Animated Series, I couldn't care less.

Drew

01:37:02.978 - 01:37:51.126

Yeah, he's not great. Although in Justice League Unlimited, he gets a little bit better.

But the best thing about him as a villain is that he thinks he's the savior of humanity. The best part about him as a villain is, like, you could see his points and his delusion as to why he. He's. Minus the being a crazy psychopath.

He's just a really concerned human citizen for humans. Did he go about the wrong way? Absolutely. But, like. And so, like, his. That's what always makes him a good villain. Is that, like. Well, I.

He also has a lot of other things that make him a good villain. He's not. I'm not trying to be like, no, Lex wasn't wrong. Like, no. Like, he's. But I just. I feel like he's.

But in Superman, he's, like, typically the only good villain.

Host Kyle

01:37:51.158 - 01:37:51.798

Yeah.

Seth

01:37:51.974 - 01:37:52.422

Yeah.

Drew

01:37:52.486 - 01:37:53.046

I feel like.

Host Kyle

01:37:53.118 - 01:38:00.154

Yeah. So, yeah, I hate it. Like, it didn't. Yeah. Three. Three to four. Super bad.

Seth

01:38:00.242 - 01:38:00.714

Squeaker.

Host Kyle

01:38:00.762 - 01:38:05.590

Let that sink in. Super bad. Seth, it's not.

Seth

01:38:06.050 - 01:38:07.786

You're all just heartless bastards.

Host Kyle

01:38:07.898 - 01:38:08.234

Okay.

Seth

01:38:08.282 - 01:38:09.594

We established this at the beginning.

Host Kyle

01:38:09.642 - 01:38:10.522

Yes, yes.

Drew

01:38:10.586 - 01:38:18.362

I'm actually okay with this ranking because, like, there are parts of this movie that I did enjoy. 3. Three parts to the four, you know, or whatever.

Seth

01:38:18.426 - 01:38:21.738

No, I can accept a squeak by as far as good versus bad and.

Drew

01:38:21.794 - 01:38:28.422

People'S opinions position with a microphone in my face, where I have to have an opinion and I have to, like, be truthful. Then.

Host Kyle

01:38:28.446 - 01:38:32.582

Yeah, you're setting an example for the children out there, all the children who.

Seth

01:38:32.606 - 01:38:34.102

Are watching this podcast.

Host Kyle

01:38:34.166 - 01:38:47.590

Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, there are some good parts. No, I agree. And there are things like. And I do like Zack Snyder's imagery.

Like, you guys were talking about the art part. Like, I do like that. That's something that I always dig. I just wish what was being conveyed to me was more cohesive, but.

Drew

01:38:47.630 - 01:38:48.022

Right.

Host Kyle

01:38:48.126 - 01:38:52.054

But is this the worst thing I've ever seen? Absolutely not. It's not. It's not that bad.

Seth

01:38:52.142 - 01:38:53.598

We all sat through wicked prayer there.

Host Kyle

01:38:53.654 - 01:39:05.230

Yeah, I know. And every time something. Every time something like this happens, I feel like it's just retribution for me making you watch it anytime like such. Yeah.

It's like, this is. He's never gonna. I remember him watching it tells me, like, wow. How dare you make me watch this.

Seth

01:39:05.270 - 01:39:07.550

Why else do you think I made you watch? Sometimes I think about dying.

Host Kyle

01:39:07.630 - 01:39:16.158

Oh, I knew it. I knew it. Well, this is a lot of fun we got.

We're gonna do two separate episodes for the Justice League because they only share, what, 45 minutes of footage.

Seth

01:39:16.174 - 01:39:18.670

45 minutes of footage. There are two vastly different movies, so.

Host Kyle

01:39:18.710 - 01:39:25.120

They warrant their own episode. So stay tuned. But thanks for chilling with us through this one. Love you. You. Kyle is my name.

Drew

01:39:25.420 - 01:39:26.996

Well, that was awkward. I'm Drew.

Seth

01:39:27.028 - 01:39:28.804

Have a great one, Drew.

Host Kyle

01:39:28.852 - 01:39:30.520

Sorry. Love you. Bye.

Seth

01:39:31.980 - 01:39:32.980

Movie Wars.