Tenet
Kyle
00:00:00.160 - 00:00:19.860
Foreign. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast. Exciting day for Seth. We're covering a Nolan film.
Seth
00:00:20.480 - 00:00:21.640
Oh, I'm so excited.
Kyle
00:00:21.720 - 00:00:32.096
Yes. And we'll get more to that a minute. We have a new friend here. Our friend Junior Robles here, co founder and co producer of Dare to Fail Film.
Tell us about you and tell us about Dare to Fail Film.
Junior Robles
00:00:32.168 - 00:01:08.272
Thanks. Thanks, Kyle. Thanks, Seth, for having me on. And so, yeah, with Dare to Fail, we are a Nashville film, I guess, activity community kind of thing.
We started a few years ago, three years ago, and we put out a prompt every month. It's a monthly short film showcase and we put out a prompt to filmmakers, anybody who wants to do it.
You got kind of got to be local to Nashville to really do it, though. And we put out a prompt, a theme, and you make a one minute short film for that theme and then we screen it that month.
And in order to get it screened, you got to show up to the showcase.
Seth
00:01:08.336 - 00:01:08.864
Nice.
Junior Robles
00:01:08.992 - 00:01:24.754
And. And buy it like a tickets, like five bucks to the show. But other than that, that's the only, like, barrier entry for it.
And so five bucks and you get to screen a film that you made and you get to meet and hang out with other filmmakers in town. And that's. Yeah, that's kind of the sum of it.
Kyle
00:01:24.842 - 00:01:25.538
Wow.
Junior Robles
00:01:25.714 - 00:01:37.426
Yeah, it's been great. Three years in and we've. We've grown a huge community in town and a lot of great films, a lot of fun projects that have gone on to.
To be in festivals and things like that too. So.
Kyle
00:01:37.498 - 00:01:38.130
Incredible.
Junior Robles
00:01:38.210 - 00:01:57.264
Yeah. And. And me and my co. My. My partner, Steve Parnell, we start. Yeah.
Like I said, we started it about three years ago and we're gonna go into season four of it this year. Well, in 2025. And we. We do our show at Third Coast Comedy Club and Pretty much very familiar. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kyle
00:01:57.392 - 00:01:58.720
I bombed there so many times.
Junior Robles
00:01:58.760 - 00:02:05.728
Yeah, I've bombed there a couple of times myself, so. But yeah, it's a, it's a. It's a great time and hopefully if you're in Nashville, come out.
Kyle
00:02:05.784 - 00:02:12.112
I was gonna say it sounds like an open mic for short films, but it sounds better than open mics because they only pay $5.
Seth
00:02:12.176 - 00:02:12.704
Yeah.
Kyle
00:02:12.832 - 00:02:16.640
And somehow after a bad set, I'm out twice that in beverages.
Junior Robles
00:02:16.720 - 00:02:17.408
Yeah.
Kyle
00:02:17.584 - 00:02:18.688
So. Wow, that's.
Seth
00:02:18.704 - 00:02:20.308
That, that's. That's like one drink.
Kyle
00:02:20.404 - 00:02:26.772
Yeah, I know. And these days. I know. Well, that's awesome. How can people find you socials and website and all that?
Junior Robles
00:02:26.796 - 00:02:38.356
Yeah, yeah. Most of our Online presence is on our Instagram. It's dare to fail film with underscores in between each of the words.
We also have a website that is under construction. It's daretofailfilm.com.
Seth
00:02:38.428 - 00:02:39.172
Sweet.
Kyle
00:02:39.316 - 00:02:49.066
Well, I love anything that stimulates film at an independent level, so that's really cool. Check it out. Today we are doing Is he favorite.
Seth
00:02:49.098 - 00:02:50.730
Director, would you say, or top three?
Kyle
00:02:50.770 - 00:02:51.258
Top three.
Seth
00:02:51.314 - 00:02:51.882
Top three.
Kyle
00:02:51.986 - 00:02:57.114
I've been aching to hear Seth talk about Nolan. And if you were to believe the critics today, we would be dumpster diving.
Seth
00:02:57.162 - 00:02:59.514
In the Nolan collection, his worst rated.
Kyle
00:02:59.562 - 00:03:01.738
Film, which is on Rotten Tomatoes 69.
Seth
00:03:01.794 - 00:03:03.194
Yeah. Which is fantastic.
Kyle
00:03:03.242 - 00:03:18.002
Honestly, it is. It is pretty crazy because you sent me the screenshot and I was like, it's like there are so many great directors who have, like, really bad.
But Nolan, this is his worst, is 69%. And he has this. What is. He has 11 now.
Seth
00:03:18.106 - 00:03:21.346
Oh, no, this is. That. That was his, I think, 12th film.
Kyle
00:03:21.418 - 00:03:21.714
Yeah.
Seth
00:03:21.762 - 00:03:22.178
Yeah.
Kyle
00:03:22.274 - 00:03:35.138
So we'll get to. To your love for Nolan in a minute.
But you know where I want to kind of start off is that this movie, to me, kind of has to get a bogey in some ways because when it came out, it came out at a very tumultuous time. Right in the middle of the pandemic.
Seth
00:03:35.234 - 00:03:43.906
I went and saw it on imax film, the 70 millimeter film. In the middle of the pandemic, there was me and eight other people in the theater. We were all masked up.
Kyle
00:03:43.978 - 00:03:44.178
Yeah.
Seth
00:03:44.194 - 00:03:48.610
Not a single one of us had popcorn. We all just sat there for the whole thing. And that was it.
Junior Robles
00:03:48.650 - 00:03:50.946
Like, it was raw dog and tenant, literally.
Seth
00:03:51.138 - 00:03:52.066
This is so good.
Kyle
00:03:52.138 - 00:03:55.906
And this is early 2020. We hadn't, you know, we were still in the thick of things.
Seth
00:03:55.978 - 00:03:58.738
Yeah. This was, I think June or July, so three, four months in.
Kyle
00:03:58.794 - 00:04:26.102
Yeah. And, you know, Nolan.
Not that Nolan ever said this, but there was almost this messianic perception of Nolan that he felt that he was going to come out with a big budget film, he was going to revive the theater again. People felt like maybe he was either arrogant and that.
That maybe he was taking too big of a risk putting this movie out in the middle of the pandemic. I admire it because obviously Covid crushed theater. Yeah. And we still haven't really recovered.
Junior Robles
00:04:26.166 - 00:04:29.318
It was kind of going down anyway. But, yeah, Covid really, really hit it hard.
Kyle
00:04:29.374 - 00:04:39.130
Yeah, it did. I remember.
And I remember me and a select group of people online were like, trying to evangelize people to go see the Northmen because we were Such Eggers fans. And it's technically a flop, you know.
Seth
00:04:39.230 - 00:04:49.570
But we were just, like, also, like, sad, because that's one of. I mean, of the. The four now movies that he's put out, I'm seeing Nosferatu on Monday. Of the three that I've seen, it's. It's so good.
Kyle
00:04:49.610 - 00:04:49.874
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:04:49.922 - 00:04:51.266
The Northman is insanely good.
Seth
00:04:51.338 - 00:04:58.882
That last duel in front of the volcano, as far as lava duels go, rivals. Revenge of the Sith, in my opinion.
Kyle
00:04:58.946 - 00:05:02.802
Yeah. So oily, so shiny. Incredible duel.
Seth
00:05:02.866 - 00:05:03.250
Yeah.
Kyle
00:05:03.330 - 00:05:13.134
But we were like, please don't let this movie flop because of COVID And it still felt it fell a little short, but I just remember, like, just actively as a movie pod, just cheering people, like, let's do what we can.
Seth
00:05:13.222 - 00:05:13.534
Yeah.
Kyle
00:05:13.582 - 00:05:15.534
I know. It's. Stay safe, be safe.
Seth
00:05:15.582 - 00:05:17.086
Yeah. But you can get out there.
Kyle
00:05:17.158 - 00:05:18.286
Let's not let this art die.
Seth
00:05:18.318 - 00:05:18.862
Yeah.
Kyle
00:05:19.006 - 00:05:25.694
And so. And then there was. You know, it's funny because the screening of the Dark Knight Rises had this too. But there was also complaints of audio issues.
Seth
00:05:25.782 - 00:06:01.040
Yeah. Which. Seeing it at The Opera Mills IMAX, which is one of, I think, 19 in the country that actually can still do IMAX film.
It was perfectly calibrated. I had no problem understanding anything that I needed to understand. A lot of times people like, oh, I can't hear every single word.
And the way Nolan tends to work with his film is if you can't hear it, it's probably because it's not important. It's just words people would say in the middle of a gigantic scene like that. So I know. I don't know.
I know people had issues, but I have a feeling that at that point, it was theaters not calibrating their sound systems correctly.
Kyle
00:06:01.120 - 00:06:14.060
Yeah. Could have been to expound that people would leave the film complaining that they couldn't hear a lot of the dialog that the.
That the background noise, like airplanes or whatever is in the scene was drowning out the dialogue and they felt like they couldn't hear. Harrison Ford's here.
Seth
00:06:14.100 - 00:06:14.924
He's made an appearance.
Junior Robles
00:06:14.972 - 00:06:17.132
The cat's name it is.
Kyle
00:06:17.316 - 00:06:18.988
He didn't make an appearance last time.
Seth
00:06:19.044 - 00:06:19.580
He didn't.
Kyle
00:06:19.660 - 00:06:20.444
It made me sad.
Seth
00:06:20.492 - 00:06:23.644
Yeah. But now he's like, probably on camera. That's awesome.
Kyle
00:06:23.692 - 00:06:41.224
Hey, buddy. But, yeah, so it's interesting. And then we. We get into this idea that, you know, the. The physics, the complexity and not subject matter.
That outside of the Dark Knight, and even in the Dark Knight a little bit, or the Batman series, he. This is not subject matter. He shies away from, in fact, he. He's infatuated.
Seth
00:06:41.272 - 00:06:41.544
Yeah.
Kyle
00:06:41.592 - 00:06:55.336
With time, with, you know, metaphysical things. So, you know, this is him really seeing that to the nth degree. But I want to get. Turn it over to you. Tell us about your Nolan love and.
Oh, yeah, and you are a. You're a defender of this film.
Seth
00:06:55.408 - 00:08:03.712
100. On top of everything you just said about the film, it.
It also, when he first was announcing what it was about, he made it very clear this is his love letter to the James Bond movie. He wanted to make a super spy movie. And this, I mean, you can see through so many different.
Even just down to certain shots that he used, you can tell he was really trying to give his love over to Sean Connery and Daniel Craig and like, kind of take that old school spy mentality and mix it with his normal convolution of time trying to figure all that out. I love Nolan, especially with this movie, because he. He does everything in camera as much as he possibly can. A lot of people think he's anti cgi.
He's not. As we've seen with Interstellar and Inception and. And plenty of his other movies, he'll use as much CGI as he needs to to make the movie happen.
But he is pro in camera. Whenever he can do something in camera, he will. To the point that this movie only had 280 visual effects shots to compare.
Your average ROM com is probably going to have about a thousand visual effects shots.
Kyle
00:08:03.776 - 00:08:04.208
Wow.
Seth
00:08:04.304 - 00:08:13.712
And Avengers Endgame. I think out of the 3,000 ish shots that were in the movie, 2,700 of them were visual effects shots.
Kyle
00:08:13.776 - 00:08:15.200
No wonder I hate those movies so much.
Seth
00:08:15.240 - 00:08:28.010
Yeah. On top of this, there was no use of blue or green screen in this entire movie.
So every time you're seeing people fighting and running around in different time directions, all of that is happening at the same time in camera.
Junior Robles
00:08:28.090 - 00:08:28.730
That's wild.
Seth
00:08:28.810 - 00:08:45.882
Yeah. Like the whole fight scene between John David Washington, spoiler alert. And himself, none of that was done through green screen.
It was all done on set with a guy based. The stunt guy being like, all right, so this is how I would fight in reverse, but also still react and attack him while I'm going in reverse.
Kyle
00:08:45.946 - 00:08:46.330
Yeah.
Seth
00:08:46.410 - 00:09:26.816
So just so much underrated stuff in this movie, even down to my favorite shot of the whole movie is right at the middle of the temporal pincer mom like moment at the end where you see this tower and it rebuilds itself in the bottom and then blows up in the top and then swaps around and does the exact opposite Thing that was all done in camera. And literally each of those shots was just two shots that he melded together. Like, everything that he could do practically, he did.
And I think a lot of things kind of got lost in just how big this movie was. As far as the scale of what he did.
Junior Robles
00:09:26.888 - 00:09:28.784
It's a crazy technical achievement.
Seth
00:09:28.832 - 00:09:48.948
Oh, my God. Yes.
I put out a Reddit post a couple years ago where I was saying, I think Tenet, as far as a technical level, is the greatest achievement in film thus far. Say what you will about the story, say what you will about the acting. We'll have those discussions later as well.
But as far as the technical side of films, doing things in camera, I think it's the greatest thing we've ever seen.
Junior Robles
00:09:49.004 - 00:09:51.060
That's why the sound didn't bother me, by the way.
Seth
00:09:51.100 - 00:09:51.364
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:09:51.412 - 00:10:01.764
Like, because.
And maybe this is the benefit of having seen it a few years after it came out and kind of hearing about it, but I heard a lot of the complaints about the sound and everything. The sound issues people didn't understand.
Seth
00:10:01.852 - 00:10:02.116
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:10:02.148 - 00:10:10.308
But like, watching it just today, which is the first time I watched it, like, to me it was like, those were intentional things.
Seth
00:10:10.364 - 00:10:10.788
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:10:10.884 - 00:10:21.238
And so I don't know, for me, when I see stuff like that, it's like, well, rather than just trying to say, oh, I was uncomfortable because I couldn't hear, like, it was more about, okay, why did. Why did he make this choice?
Seth
00:10:21.334 - 00:10:21.958
Exactly.
Junior Robles
00:10:21.974 - 00:10:26.278
And like, thematically, it makes sense. Like, you've got these two reverse timelines going on.
Seth
00:10:26.334 - 00:10:26.662
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:10:26.726 - 00:10:41.482
And so.
And kind of establishes the rules of that sound, of why that's happening, because, you know, the physics of everything are just different in the other timeline. So. So, yeah. I mean, I really kind of love that choice.
Seth
00:10:41.546 - 00:11:09.872
Yeah. And I always tell people, if you.
If you don't pay very close attention to the first 15 minutes of that movie, you're not going to get anything else that happens after that. If you're not paying attention to when the scientist is explaining to him the. The physics. And we can get into that.
I've said a bunch of stuff about this in the past, but if you don't hear her explain the physics of how you have to catch or drop the bullet in order for it to actually do its thing, you're not going to understand anything that happens for the rest of the movie.
Junior Robles
00:11:09.936 - 00:11:14.144
People love getting a college lecture. 15. The first 15 minutes into a movie.
Seth
00:11:14.272 - 00:11:44.010
Yeah. But I mean, if you're doing a science fiction movie, you have to understand the rules of the universe.
It's something we've discussed with other movies is that this is one of those movies that I throw everything I know about the real world out the window and I listen to their explanation of the rules. And I only follow those rules for the entirety of the movie because those are now the rules of the universe that we're following.
We're not trying to make this movie fit into what the real world would be like. We have to accept the rules that he's established within that first 15 minutes of the movie.
Junior Robles
00:11:44.170 - 00:11:56.266
Seems like maybe that's why it got. One of the reasons why it got a lot of flack, though, was maybe something like that. And I feel like that happens in a lot of Nolan movies, though.
Like you have somebody. It's like it happens with Michael Caine in Inception.
Seth
00:11:56.298 - 00:11:56.554
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:11:56.602 - 00:12:00.282
Where like he kind of explains, hey, here's how the world is exactly.
Seth
00:12:00.346 - 00:12:20.614
You know, and like when he's explaining the different layers of time, how time slows down with each dream, that in. Yeah, he, he, he does create semi complicated worlds in what he's doing, but that's just what he's doing.
Like you, if you're gonna go watch a Nolan movie, you should kind of expect that it's going to be more complicated than your average superhero movie.
Kyle
00:12:20.742 - 00:12:28.326
Yeah. And he also has varying levels of reality baked in in his movies like Inception. He was very clear that he did zero research for that movie.
Seth
00:12:28.358 - 00:12:28.566
Yeah.
Kyle
00:12:28.598 - 00:12:33.868
Like he was not interested in making that one. Whereas this one, he and I have a rando about this. But he worked with a world renowned physicist.
Seth
00:12:33.934 - 00:12:34.656
Yeah, exactly.
Kyle
00:12:34.688 - 00:12:40.176
You know, he still took a lot of liberties, but he's had varying levels of interest in what it would look like.
Seth
00:12:40.248 - 00:13:11.610
Well, I mean, Interstellar literally won scientific awards for their representation of a black hole because no one had ever done that before. He took all the mathematical calculations that go into what it might look like, put it through a computer, that's what it spat out.
Five years later, they take a picture of a black hole and prove that it's exactly what it looks like. So, yeah, that back 10 years ago, Interstellar won tons of scientific awards for that vision or visual of the black hole.
So, yeah, he goes through science when he wants to and when he doesn't.
Junior Robles
00:13:11.690 - 00:13:13.946
Seth, I love how much you love Christopher Nolan.
Kyle
00:13:13.978 - 00:13:14.730
I love it too.
Junior Robles
00:13:14.850 - 00:13:15.990
I love it.
Seth
00:13:16.930 - 00:13:34.404
He's one of the few arturs that are genuinely keeping the art of filmmaking alive. I actually just read a statement that was put out by Netflix.
Apparently they have been telling their filmmakers to have all of the characters explain what they're about to do for the people who have it on in the background.
Kyle
00:13:34.532 - 00:13:35.892
Yeah. It's a new genre, actually.
Seth
00:13:35.996 - 00:13:36.804
It's so dumb.
Junior Robles
00:13:36.852 - 00:13:37.876
Wait, do what now?
Seth
00:13:38.028 - 00:13:57.300
So literally, Netflix is saying that directors and writers need to make sure that characters almost narrate everything they're doing so that people who are cleaning their house with a Netflix movie on can still pay attention without looking at the movie. Like, they're literally making movies for people that aren't watching movies. They're making movies for background noise.
Kyle
00:13:57.380 - 00:14:00.932
Developing it as a genre. Almost like it's almost being described as background movies.
Seth
00:14:00.996 - 00:14:11.956
Yeah. So absurd.
Christopher Nolan wants you to put your phone away, sit down, and watch the damn movie for the whole two and a half, three hours that he's got it on screen.
Kyle
00:14:12.148 - 00:14:21.828
Well, if you got a Christopher Nolan fan in your life, make sure you share this up. Yeah, I know you got a friend in your life. Please do. If your grandma. We always talk. We don't ever. Leave the grandmas out of this show.
Seth
00:14:21.884 - 00:14:23.236
Grandmas love Christopher Nolan.
Kyle
00:14:23.268 - 00:14:25.440
Grandmas love the Nolan. They love it.
Junior Robles
00:14:26.310 - 00:14:29.614
Enemies, too. If. Enemies, like, yeah, love thy enemy.
Seth
00:14:29.662 - 00:14:33.438
If. If someone hated the sound of this movie, you should just send them this podcast.
Kyle
00:14:33.534 - 00:14:35.598
Yeah, yeah. Subtitles are a thing.
Seth
00:14:35.654 - 00:14:40.686
Yeah. In fact, in the edit, he's gonna put nothing but rumble over our voices so you can't hear what we're saying.
Kyle
00:14:40.758 - 00:14:43.102
Even though it's gonna be audio. I'm gonna put subtitles on it.
Seth
00:14:43.126 - 00:14:43.730
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:14:44.390 - 00:14:46.254
All of my dialogue is in reverse.
Seth
00:14:46.382 - 00:14:46.686
Yeah.
Kyle
00:14:46.718 - 00:14:49.326
Yeah. We just had to. We had to. We had to re. Reverse it.
Seth
00:14:49.398 - 00:14:49.886
Yeah.
Kyle
00:14:49.998 - 00:15:08.698
Entropy. The questions, the questions. Yes. Is there an easier way for these future criminals to get back at civilization than this?
I'm just thinking, like, the Terminator is one of my favorite movies. Like, I just feel like sending a robot back was a pretty. A pretty, like, feasible.
Seth
00:15:08.794 - 00:15:09.418
Yeah, sure.
Kyle
00:15:09.474 - 00:15:12.506
But these future criminals, like, got very creative.
Junior Robles
00:15:12.538 - 00:15:13.370
They just jumped right in.
Seth
00:15:13.410 - 00:15:13.946
Yeah.
Kyle
00:15:14.058 - 00:15:15.882
Just like, wow.
Seth
00:15:16.026 - 00:15:46.760
I mean, here's my assumption.
My assumption is this movie is technically a prequel to Interstellar because they talk about how basically the entire environment has fallen apart, and that's why they're doing all this and sending all this shit back in time so that they can destroy the world beforehand. I feel like that's why they. They. Someone created this time, you know, time manipulation shit.
Somewhere between now and then and now, they're just like, well, this is all we got. So we'll just send something back, you know, however long ago and make that happen. But, yeah, I think. I don't know.
Junior Robles
00:15:46.800 - 00:15:51.576
It's Kind of a prequel to Oppenheimer, too. There's a little shout out to. To Oppie in the. In the movie.
Seth
00:15:51.688 - 00:15:57.416
Yeah, a prequel to the. The movie that happens in World War II. But, yeah, we're going backwards in time, so that makes sense.
Kyle
00:15:57.448 - 00:15:59.672
Yeah. On one of the various loops, it.
Junior Robles
00:15:59.696 - 00:16:01.704
Works in the tenet, sort of time rules.
Seth
00:16:01.752 - 00:16:02.232
Absolutely.
Kyle
00:16:02.296 - 00:16:03.980
They always just say, that's a loop.
Junior Robles
00:16:04.720 - 00:16:07.272
Oh, I've been playing this game, death loop. Have y'all played it?
Kyle
00:16:07.296 - 00:16:07.688
I played.
Seth
00:16:07.744 - 00:16:08.136
Have. Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:16:08.168 - 00:16:29.000
It reminded me so much of this movie or the. The movie reminded me so much of. Of the game. Like, just with the.
The different time things that are going on in that game and also sort of the vibe of it, too. But. But as far as, like, being an easier. An easier way for these. I don't know, maybe just, like, try to do something about the climate. That would be.
Yeah, probably.
Seth
00:16:29.080 - 00:16:35.352
Yeah. We have to nuke the world. We have just, like, change something. Like just maybe Bill Gates doesn't buy all the farmland.
Kyle
00:16:35.416 - 00:16:37.656
It really is like an angry ex girlfriend approach.
Seth
00:16:37.728 - 00:16:41.272
Yeah. Instead of solving the problem of aggressive bullshit.
Kyle
00:16:41.336 - 00:16:49.500
Yeah. Instead of solving the problem, let's kill people and beat people around and spread gossip about them, you know, and post about them on social media.
Seth
00:16:50.440 - 00:16:51.568
Gosh, I love it.
Junior Robles
00:16:51.624 - 00:16:59.600
Yeah. Just a little more. Yeah, a little more climate stuff would be probably a lot easier than sending, you know, multiple people.
Seth
00:16:59.720 - 00:17:06.848
Or they could have just sent back the cure for cancer so that Kenneth Branagh didn't have to, like, be pissed off, you know, wife and everything.
Junior Robles
00:17:06.984 - 00:17:17.902
So is that. Is that transporter thing? Is it like one of those things at the bank where you put the tube of your check into the thing and it basically.
But through time. Yeah, I love that. That's. That's pretty cool.
Kyle
00:17:17.966 - 00:17:24.158
Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. And, you know, you can. I mean, you got to wonder the impact on your body after you do it so many times. Right.
Seth
00:17:24.214 - 00:17:25.982
Because maybe that's what gave him cancer.
Kyle
00:17:26.046 - 00:17:27.614
Yeah, could have. Oh, wow.
Seth
00:17:27.742 - 00:17:30.942
It wasn't. Wasn't him digging up nuclear sites in Ukraine.
Junior Robles
00:17:31.006 - 00:17:32.734
The decades of radiation exposure.
Seth
00:17:32.782 - 00:17:33.598
No, it was.
Kyle
00:17:33.654 - 00:17:44.482
That was time travel. That was the cherry on top. Next question. Does Michael Caine have dirt on Nolan? He literally just. Same. Same suit.
Seth
00:17:44.546 - 00:17:44.978
Yeah.
Kyle
00:17:45.074 - 00:17:51.154
Same character. I mean, different names, doing some different things. But, like, there's like, three. We're going on, like, what, four?
Seth
00:17:51.322 - 00:17:52.194
No, that was six.
Kyle
00:17:52.282 - 00:18:00.802
Six movies with Michael Caine. And I. I know he. I know Alfred's a bigger thing, but still very much Michael Caine. It's like he. Inception in this one. Very Much.
Seth
00:18:00.906 - 00:18:01.554
That was seven.
Kyle
00:18:01.642 - 00:18:02.034
Seven.
Seth
00:18:02.122 - 00:18:04.844
Because he does have a little audio cameo in Dunkirk.
Kyle
00:18:04.922 - 00:18:05.864
Okay. Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:18:05.992 - 00:18:12.152
If I had. If I were a film director of any weight and I had a chance to put Michael Caine into a movie.
Seth
00:18:12.296 - 00:18:14.792
For much seven movies, I would just.
Junior Robles
00:18:14.816 - 00:18:19.224
Do it and figure out something that's kind of. That's kind of my thought. But he might have dirt on Nolan.
Kyle
00:18:19.272 - 00:18:21.816
Yeah, he just, he's. He's got like a cadence.
Seth
00:18:21.928 - 00:18:26.568
Or does Nolan have dirt on Michael Caine? And he's like, you will be in all of my movies.
Kyle
00:18:26.744 - 00:18:34.840
I think whoever put Michael Caine in Jaws for the revenge had dirt on Michael Caine. That's. Yeah. A zero percent on Rotten Tomatoes. I definitely.
Seth
00:18:34.920 - 00:18:35.256
They.
Kyle
00:18:35.328 - 00:18:37.700
If anyone had dirt on Michael Kane, it was those both.
Junior Robles
00:18:37.740 - 00:18:40.468
The fact that he's in that movie is the dirt on Michael Kane.
Kyle
00:18:40.644 - 00:18:44.324
Yeah. His agent. Do you think he killed. I would have killed my agent.
Seth
00:18:44.372 - 00:18:44.884
Yeah.
Kyle
00:18:45.012 - 00:18:49.508
Like, I don't think about killing people. But if I'm Michael Kane. If you are like some iconic actor.
Seth
00:18:49.604 - 00:18:53.360
How do you go from the original Italian job to Jaws 4?
Kyle
00:18:53.980 - 00:18:54.676
I know.
Junior Robles
00:18:54.748 - 00:18:57.160
You know, a couple million bucks probably helps.
Seth
00:18:57.580 - 00:19:06.504
I have a feeling that's how much they spent on the entire. Maybe that's the problem with Jaws 4 is they spent all their money on Michael Caine.
And then they were like, oh, we probably should have written a script first.
Kyle
00:19:06.592 - 00:19:07.672
The shark ate the script.
Seth
00:19:07.736 - 00:19:15.240
Yeah. I don't know. I love having Michael Kane in as many movies. I mean, he's fully retired now. That's why he wasn't an Oppenheimer. So I mean.
Kyle
00:19:15.280 - 00:19:16.104
Yeah, it's.
Seth
00:19:16.152 - 00:19:18.072
Yeah. I kind of miss. Miss having him around.
Kyle
00:19:18.176 - 00:19:23.928
And he is one of those actors that has like a like aura. He just. When he's on screen, you're like, that's Michael Kane.
Seth
00:19:24.104 - 00:19:30.318
Secondhand lions, I love second hand. So good in that him and Robert Duvall together are just perfect.
Junior Robles
00:19:30.464 - 00:19:30.834
Yeah.
Kyle
00:19:30.882 - 00:19:31.234
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:19:31.282 - 00:19:33.954
My third girlfriend and I went on a date to see secondhand lines.
Seth
00:19:34.002 - 00:19:34.370
There you go.
Junior Robles
00:19:34.410 - 00:19:35.874
It was, it was fine.
Kyle
00:19:35.922 - 00:19:42.658
You got them number. You got the number. You have like encyclopedias with numbered girlfriends out there. Like, this is the book of Trish.
Junior Robles
00:19:42.754 - 00:19:43.430
Yeah.
Kyle
00:19:43.770 - 00:19:45.682
Well, this is the book of Deborah.
Junior Robles
00:19:45.826 - 00:19:47.826
Yeah. One of those books is really long.
Seth
00:19:47.898 - 00:19:49.218
This is the book of that.
Kyle
00:19:49.354 - 00:19:54.290
Yeah. This is coming from a guy that had one girlfriend before I met my wife. And that was like a four week relationship.
Seth
00:19:54.450 - 00:19:54.770
You.
Junior Robles
00:19:54.810 - 00:19:55.714
Oh, yeah, man.
Kyle
00:19:55.882 - 00:20:07.200
Well, I, I have commit. My commitment problem is if I'm not getting. I was. If I wasn't gonna get married, I wasn't gonna do it. I wasn't Gonna date now.
So most people, like, I don't really want to be in a long term. I was like, I only want the longest term.
Seth
00:20:07.580 - 00:20:09.252
Yeah, I love it.
Junior Robles
00:20:09.276 - 00:20:10.036
You stuck to your guns.
Kyle
00:20:10.068 - 00:20:14.996
I did, I did. I also was just not good at dating. I'm also. I don't have a lot to work with here.
Junior Robles
00:20:15.148 - 00:20:16.388
Hey, man. I think you're pretty hot.
Kyle
00:20:16.444 - 00:20:19.460
Oh, thank you. I know there's. There's a lot of hotness going on.
Junior Robles
00:20:19.500 - 00:20:22.346
Yeah, I agree. Almost as hot as Kenneth Branagh on this movie.
Seth
00:20:22.428 - 00:20:37.886
Seriously, though, that was the greatest text I've ever received from you. He text me like, two hours ago, and it's literally just like, what did he say? Also, Kenneth Branagh looks great. What the fuck?
This might be the hottest version of Kenneth Branagh.
Kyle
00:20:37.918 - 00:20:38.610
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:20:39.270 - 00:20:40.190
I stand by it.
Seth
00:20:40.230 - 00:20:45.598
Yeah, Yeah, I agree. He took his shirt off at the end there. I was like, fuck. Okay. All right. He's been working out.
Junior Robles
00:20:45.654 - 00:20:46.094
Jacked.
Kyle
00:20:46.142 - 00:20:49.166
Dude's vindictive in this too. Yeah. He starts slapping her around.
Seth
00:20:49.238 - 00:20:49.902
Oh, my God.
Kyle
00:20:49.966 - 00:20:53.002
I was pissed. I was like, damn. This dude, he's. He's angry.
Seth
00:20:53.146 - 00:20:58.042
He literally had, like, the Persona of Bane, but. But like, in a Russian oligarch.
Kyle
00:20:58.106 - 00:20:58.442
Yes.
Junior Robles
00:20:58.506 - 00:21:00.202
I think he's my favorite thing about the movie.
Kyle
00:21:00.266 - 00:21:00.586
Same.
Seth
00:21:00.658 - 00:21:01.386
Great. Agreed.
Junior Robles
00:21:01.418 - 00:21:21.262
100. And there's a lot of great stuff about. But I think his performance and his choices, just amazing. Amazing casting choice for this guy.
And just he was menacing and complex, and you could still kind of see. You could still kind of empathize with. With him. Like, it was. I think he was a really beautifully built character.
Seth
00:21:21.326 - 00:21:21.614
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:21:21.662 - 00:21:23.662
And an amazing performance by this guy.
Seth
00:21:23.726 - 00:21:24.366
Agreed.
Kyle
00:21:24.478 - 00:21:24.814
Yeah.
Seth
00:21:24.862 - 00:21:25.118
And.
Kyle
00:21:25.174 - 00:21:59.392
And one thing I love what Nolan does, and this is another one of his obsessions is sickness. Like someone a character that has a disease, Terminal disease. And terminality messes with fate. And he loves that.
But I love how, like, the trajectory of his characters, he's so good at without over doing too much exposition. Like, I love that glimpse of him as a young man digging in the dirt because it's like, oh, he is who he is because of what he's experienced.
Like, his trajectory, like, it just. It hits you. And the way no one delivers that, it usually punches you in the stomach a little bit, like, oh, shit.
Like, he's a bad guy, but he's a survivor.
Seth
00:21:59.456 - 00:22:05.616
Yeah. You know, reason he's a bad guy, because he's been fucked over by the world. The way he's trying to fuck over the world.
Kyle
00:22:05.688 - 00:22:06.208
Yep.
Junior Robles
00:22:06.304 - 00:22:14.708
Yeah. Heroes. Heroes never die. They only live long enough to Become villains.
Like, I could see that character in an Earth, earlier version becoming someone that you really root for.
Seth
00:22:14.764 - 00:22:15.380
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:22:15.540 - 00:22:29.348
And I think it's been settled in a lot of places, but those are the kind. That's the kind of villain character. That's the kind of way that you want to build a villain. If you're going to create something like that is.
Is to create somebody that could have been a hero at some point, you know?
Seth
00:22:29.404 - 00:22:29.892
Definitely.
Junior Robles
00:22:29.956 - 00:22:32.228
And yeah, I love his performance in this so much.
Kyle
00:22:32.364 - 00:22:34.100
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth
00:22:34.260 - 00:23:03.192
I will say one of the biggest criticisms I do remember about. About the movie is the casting of John David Washington. A lot of people said that his performance was just very stale, very stilted.
I think they kind of missed the point, though, of what his character is supposed to be.
He is supposed to be like the number one agent at the CIA, which basically means you're an expert at not showing your actual emotion, at creating whatever emotion you're trying to portray to whoever you're trying to over.
Kyle
00:23:03.296 - 00:23:03.608
Right.
Seth
00:23:03.664 - 00:23:25.794
And like, I. I don't know. I think he did that perfectly, especially with his character literally being named the protagonist.
Like, he's not supposed to be someone that you want their background on. You're literally supposed to be dropped into his story right in the middle.
I mean, literally the first moment we have is that opera being attacked by terrorists and he's just sitting there waiting to go in.
Kyle
00:23:25.882 - 00:23:26.194
Yeah.
Seth
00:23:26.242 - 00:23:44.192
And it's like, I don't think this particular character is supposed to be like Cobb in Inception, where you're supposed to get his tragic background and you're supposed to understand why he's in this. He's the top of the CIA. You're. You're supposed to see him as anonymous as the rest of the world would.
Kyle
00:23:44.296 - 00:24:14.034
Yeah. And I think. I think if. If this traveling through time and this entropy theme is the thing you need, like this almost entity. Yeah.
I look at him as almost a God, like a godlike entity. I know that's not who he is, but metaphorically speaking, he is in this world where we're. We're subscribing to try and travel and reversing of time.
Like, he is this entity, and so he has to be almost this consistent. Like, because that's what. That's what entities are. You know, they're consistent. They're, you know, they're. They're unchanging, you know?
Seth
00:24:14.122 - 00:24:14.722
Exactly.
Kyle
00:24:14.786 - 00:24:16.002
So, yeah, I think he is.
Junior Robles
00:24:16.106 - 00:24:20.322
I think he's. It's not that much of a metaphor. Like, he really kind of is the God of this timeline.
Seth
00:24:20.386 - 00:24:20.898
Thing.
Junior Robles
00:24:21.034 - 00:24:25.218
And it's a part of. A big Part of the. The plot of the movie is him kind of figuring that out.
Seth
00:24:25.274 - 00:24:25.714
Exactly.
Junior Robles
00:24:25.762 - 00:24:36.950
You know, and I did like the choice of him, you know, there. I think some of the critiques are fair, personally. I. I do think he was a little bit sort of vanilla at times, but also, it's a really hard part.
First of all.
Seth
00:24:36.990 - 00:24:37.446
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:24:37.558 - 00:24:51.734
And second of all, in other places, he's just insanely good. Like, the physicality that this guy needs. Like, you know, And. And also, I do like that he is kind of famous, but kind of also not super famous.
Seth
00:24:51.782 - 00:24:53.974
Yeah. Yeah. He's Denzel's kid.
Junior Robles
00:24:54.022 - 00:25:01.874
Denzel's. And he sounds like Denzel, but. But like. But if you didn't know that, you would just see someone. Like, who is that guy?
Seth
00:25:02.002 - 00:25:04.962
Honestly, I didn't know he was Denzel's kid until I watched the movie.
Junior Robles
00:25:05.026 - 00:25:05.506
Yeah.
Seth
00:25:05.618 - 00:25:06.098
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:25:06.194 - 00:25:14.594
I think I. I'd heard a podcast with him on it, and he was about. Like, Tenant was filming at the time, and he just said that he's going to be the lead. So. So.
So I kind of knew that was happening.
Seth
00:25:14.642 - 00:25:15.202
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:25:15.346 - 00:25:30.492
But, like, I. I think he. I. I think he does a great job with it. And I.
I think that kind of mystery about him is another layer of that casting choice where it's like that thing where it's like, I know that guy from somewhere. He's that guy.
Kyle
00:25:30.556 - 00:25:30.844
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:25:30.892 - 00:25:34.572
You know, I don't know. Is he that big of a star now, would you say?
Kyle
00:25:34.756 - 00:25:37.692
Wasn't he in that. What was that Ku Klux Klan movie?
Junior Robles
00:25:37.756 - 00:25:38.492
He was in Black.
Seth
00:25:38.596 - 00:25:59.970
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's kind of hit, like, the top level of the indie scene, but I feel like this movie was the first time he was in something blockbuster, like.
But then he was almost, like, he was almost blocked just because of when it came out. Like, it should have been significantly bigger than it was.
And it kind of, I feel like, may have set him back a little bit just because of when it was released.
Kyle
00:26:00.550 - 00:26:01.070
Yeah.
Seth
00:26:01.150 - 00:26:12.782
Also, I love the fact that Robert Pattinson in the movie is the only one who knows anything about what's happening. And yet on set, he's literally quoted as saying, I had no idea what the fuck was going on.
Kyle
00:26:12.806 - 00:26:13.102
Yeah.
Seth
00:26:13.166 - 00:26:21.150
I knew nothing. I had read the script, and I still was like, what are we doing? He was the only one, though, in the movie who actually knows everything.
Kyle
00:26:21.270 - 00:26:22.766
That's actually my first one, Rando.
Seth
00:26:22.798 - 00:26:24.210
Oh, is it? Oh, sorry.
Kyle
00:26:24.550 - 00:26:25.614
It's a perfect segue.
Seth
00:26:25.662 - 00:26:27.410
I think it's so funny.
Kyle
00:26:28.070 - 00:26:28.862
Rando.
Seth
00:26:28.926 - 00:26:29.730
Rando.
Kyle
00:26:30.790 - 00:26:32.078
She got to say it. Say it hard.
Junior Robles
00:26:32.134 - 00:26:33.422
Okay. Rando.
Kyle
00:26:33.486 - 00:26:39.646
Oh, yeah, that's good. That was hot. I need a sweat break. You got a towel, Harrison? Yeah, bring me a towel.
Seth
00:26:39.678 - 00:26:40.366
He's under the table.
Kyle
00:26:40.398 - 00:26:41.518
Oh, he's chilling, dude.
Seth
00:26:41.534 - 00:26:42.286
He's chilling, bro.
Kyle
00:26:42.358 - 00:26:46.030
He's usually opening the curtain over there. Sometimes during the video, you see this fluctuating light.
Seth
00:26:46.070 - 00:26:47.166
It's amazing.
Kyle
00:26:47.358 - 00:26:56.286
He's like. It's like in a movie. Like in the Overlook Hotel. Like, is a character in a movie. Like, the curtain is now a character in our movie wars movie. Rando.
Seth
00:26:56.398 - 00:26:57.070
Rand.
Kyle
00:26:57.230 - 00:27:16.462
Great, great segue. So the secrecy in. In Patson is. This is the reason there was a lot of secrecy, first of all, about.
This is kind of what played into the movie, also struggling in theaters a little bit, was that people didn't know what it was about. Like, because the. The trailers were super, like, ambiguous. Like, Nolan didn't want. He wanted complete mystery.
Seth
00:27:16.526 - 00:27:16.910
Yeah.
Kyle
00:27:16.990 - 00:27:21.256
So much so that, like, Michael Kane was only allowed to read his. His lines.
Seth
00:27:21.288 - 00:27:21.736
Yeah.
Kyle
00:27:21.848 - 00:27:30.952
His section of the script. He was not allowed to read anything outside of his dialogue with other actors.
And saying Patinson and John David Washington, they got to read the full script.
Seth
00:27:31.016 - 00:27:31.400
Yeah.
Kyle
00:27:31.480 - 00:27:44.380
But they had to read them in locked rooms, apart from each other, at Warner Brothers Studios. Crazy. So when Patson says he didn't know, it's because. Yeah. They were all kept away from each other. I don't think there were table reads.
Junior Robles
00:27:44.800 - 00:27:46.340
Did they talk about why?
Kyle
00:27:47.120 - 00:28:07.048
I think. I think if I had to guess, I don't have that part of it, but if I had to guess, it's because that is actually what's in the movie.
I think you have actors, and you could call them actors almost in the movie. The characters are actors in this, and they're not supposed to know. Like, John David Washington isn't.
He's not supposed to know that he actually is who he is.
Seth
00:28:07.104 - 00:28:35.184
Yeah. And then on top of that, Christopher Nolan just.
He likes having an air of mystique about the movies that he puts out, especially his original works, when he's not adapting something. He doesn't want people to think they know what's going to happen when they first go in.
And so he tries to keep everything as vague as possible and let the movie speak for itself. Like, that was kind of what happened with Oppenheimer. He.
I don't think he even said it was based on American Prometheus until, like, right around when the movie came out.
Kyle
00:28:35.272 - 00:28:35.808
Yeah.
Seth
00:28:35.904 - 00:28:47.482
So, yeah, you're. You're kind of sitting There wondering like exactly what it's going to be.
And then when it happens, instead of taking your own presupposed ideas of what it should be, you're just watching it for what it is.
Kyle
00:28:47.586 - 00:28:47.962
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:28:48.026 - 00:29:07.704
I have a bit of a theory about Nolan and I'm not as well versed, I think, as maybe you guys are.
But, but like I've seen most of his movies and I kind of figured out after Inception for me that like pretty much to me all of his movies at some level are about what happens to us when we watch movies.
Seth
00:29:07.832 - 00:29:08.760
Kind of. Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:29:08.840 - 00:29:48.600
And like what, what we go through like the experience of like deciphering a plot, deciphering what it means to us and just like how the movie going experience can even in a tiny, tiny way can kind of transform us when we're, when we're done watching that movie. And I kind of went into watching this movie kind of thinking about that especially because the, the guy's name is the protagonist.
And honestly it's one of my critiques of Nolan sometimes is that yeah, he can kind of be a little heavy handed with like, hey, here's how much I know about movies, here's how much I know about storytelling.
Which, you know, that's fine but, but like, but it does kind of get like, I don't know, it feels a little, what's the word, shall we say, pretentious sometimes self indulgent. Yeah.
Seth
00:29:49.260 - 00:30:20.792
But then again you think about it at its, at its core level. If you're making art, if you're not doing a Marvel movie where you're, you're strictly following a plan that's been set out in front of you.
All good art is self indulgent at times because it is the purest form of self expression. Like you're literally putting a piece of yourself out. So yeah, you should be a little self indulgent.
But I get, I get where people have the critique that it might come across as pretentious, but it's like what, what great artist doesn't have a little twinge of pretense?
Junior Robles
00:30:20.856 - 00:30:45.308
It doesn't bother me at all. I feel like he should totally flex in each one of his movies cuz like they're masterpieces. Right.
But like, and so, but, but what you're talking about with like how they were part, the actors were partitioned with reading the screenplays and could only read certain parts of it. Like sometimes that gets under my skin a little bit because I'm also an actor and I, and I kind of have some experience with that. Too. But I.
I kind of feel like it's okay for directors to just trust their actors.
Seth
00:30:45.404 - 00:30:45.756
Sure.
Junior Robles
00:30:45.828 - 00:30:56.230
Do you know, you guys, was it the Hateful Eight where. Where Tarantino, Tarantino, Jennifer Jason Lee and Walton Goggins. Yeah, Walton Goggins. They have that guitar.
Seth
00:30:56.310 - 00:30:57.958
Yeah, yeah, yeah. With Kurt Russell.
Junior Robles
00:30:57.974 - 00:31:02.342
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they swapped out the guitar for, like, this art. Like this.
Seth
00:31:02.526 - 00:31:05.398
An original Holy Grails Taylor guitar. Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:31:05.414 - 00:31:06.214
Oh. As a Martin.
Seth
00:31:06.342 - 00:31:07.462
Martin guitar. My bad.
Junior Robles
00:31:07.566 - 00:31:09.766
It's like a holy grail of acoustic guitars, right? Yeah.
Seth
00:31:09.798 - 00:31:15.782
Literally, like 250,000 ish. I think maybe even up to a million that they had it insured for, but it was technically priceless.
Junior Robles
00:31:15.846 - 00:31:23.082
Yeah. And so. And so they were supposed to use the dummy guitar that Kurt Russell was supposed to smash and Tarantino's like, use the real guitar, man.
Seth
00:31:23.186 - 00:31:27.402
And see, I've heard that. I don't. But I've also heard that it was completely an accident.
Junior Robles
00:31:27.466 - 00:31:28.186
Well, maybe.
Seth
00:31:28.218 - 00:31:28.650
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:31:28.730 - 00:31:33.914
Well, this. This. This is what. What I've heard. I've heard that Tarantino did. I don't. I don't want to besmirch.
Seth
00:31:33.962 - 00:31:34.426
Yeah, yeah.
Junior Robles
00:31:34.458 - 00:31:47.162
You know, I don't want to get in any, you know, problem. But, like, either way, like, the reaction that Jennifer.
Jason Lee had to that guitar smashing was not just, oh, my God, the character, but it was like Jennifer Jason Leigh seeing that guitar.
Seth
00:31:47.226 - 00:31:47.676
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:31:47.778 - 00:31:52.072
Get destroyed. And she had sort of developed a connection with the guitar. It was really messed up. Right.
Seth
00:31:52.096 - 00:31:52.780
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:31:53.120 - 00:32:01.464
And I feel like sometimes directors don't trust their actors enough, you know, like, just. She could totally just act that.
Seth
00:32:01.552 - 00:32:02.328
Oh, definitely.
Junior Robles
00:32:02.424 - 00:32:12.312
And I don't know. But with this one, I don't know if I feel that.
That way about the story, but I do kind of feel like you could totally just give your actors these scripts and just let them read it and figure it out.
Seth
00:32:12.336 - 00:33:12.976
But while I do agree with that, what I know about Nolan, like, Gary Oldman just recently did an interview where he was talking about how Christopher Nolan has only ever given him one note. In every movie that they've done together, he's only given him one note.
And that one note was simply in one particular scene, he just stopped and said, hey, the stakes are higher. That's the only note he's ever given Gary Old. And. And so to me, I think. I think Nolan's method, and. And I. I only know so much. Haven't met the man.
I haven't watched him work in person. But I feel like Nolan's method is to put the actors in the situation as much as he can.
Because if you remember, in this whole movie, John Day, the protagonist, John David Washington, doesn't trust Robert Pattinson. He doesn't trust, really anyone around him.
And so by purposefully making sure that they didn't bond over reading the script, I feel like just added a little bit of emotional layer to that where because they haven't formed a bond, they don't fully trust each other until the end of the movie.
Junior Robles
00:33:13.038 - 00:33:13.852
That is super cool.
Seth
00:33:13.916 - 00:33:15.900
So that's. That's my assumption.
Kyle
00:33:16.060 - 00:33:31.468
And there's definitely. I. I agree with what you're saying. Both of you. Both are interesting and. And there are more demented.
We just covered the Shining, and there's, you know. Nice. Kubrick is more demented in this way.
Like, one of the reasons he loved Nicholson is because even when someone would screw up, Nicholson would finish the take.
Seth
00:33:31.524 - 00:33:31.756
Yeah.
Kyle
00:33:31.788 - 00:33:41.740
He always finished the take. Even if it was the 130th take and he knew it was a dead take. He did it because he knew Kubrick wanted a palette. Yeah, he.
That was the version of a painter's palette. He wanted options.
Seth
00:33:41.820 - 00:33:42.364
Yeah.
Kyle
00:33:42.492 - 00:33:50.716
But Duvall didn't know how to do that because she was in. You know, she was olive oil. She had done, like, some pretty. And. But she was out of. She was a fish out of water.
Junior Robles
00:33:50.788 - 00:33:51.708
It's rough for her, man.
Kyle
00:33:51.764 - 00:34:20.329
It was rough for her, and she would never finish take. And. And she felt intimidated by Nicholson because he would go all the way to the end.
And Nicholson was frustrated with Duvall, and she was already being punished by Kubrick on a regular basis. So there are more demented. Yeah, it really depends on the director. Was. Tarantino is incredibly collaborative. He is.
He creates and he's talking a lot and talking to them, but he's always trying to empower the actors to find their power on set. So it's interesting. It's very much director to director.
Seth
00:34:20.449 - 00:34:40.002
Yeah. Also, I feel like Nolan is just at a point now where if his script gets leaked, he's fucked because it just ruins all mystique around the movie.
And I feel like Tenet.
Especially if that script had gotten leaked before the movie had come out or if story elements had come out, people would have really gone into it expecting something that.
Junior Robles
00:34:40.026 - 00:34:45.746
It wasn't the only insight, because I did a project with somebody who was in a Nolan movie.
Seth
00:34:45.778 - 00:34:46.146
Oh, nice.
Junior Robles
00:34:46.178 - 00:34:54.354
And I don't know if I want to say it, because, I don't know. I don't think it's a big deal. But. But it was a recent Nolan movie, and he did. He was a day player on this movie.
Seth
00:34:54.402 - 00:34:54.754
Okay.
Junior Robles
00:34:54.802 - 00:35:12.294
And he kind of just told me how it went and apparently it was a really super professional, like, really efficient, oh, yeah. Kind of thing. And. But yeah, this sort of firsthand experience that I've gotten, like, this guy was just loving the whole experience.
Seth
00:35:12.382 - 00:35:12.902
Oh, yeah.
Junior Robles
00:35:12.966 - 00:35:15.270
He was a really great director to work with as an actor. So.
Seth
00:35:15.310 - 00:35:28.970
Yeah.
I mean, there's a reason why every single actor that works with him wants to work with him again and will literally take massive pay cuts just so they can be in front of the camera with him. Like, he's just that respected by his actors.
Kyle
00:35:29.390 - 00:35:31.270
Randos. Randos do that to you?
Junior Robles
00:35:31.310 - 00:35:32.150
I love randos.
Kyle
00:35:32.230 - 00:35:33.654
Randos. They'll bring it out of you, baby.
Junior Robles
00:35:33.702 - 00:35:35.126
They will in life too.
Kyle
00:35:35.198 - 00:36:04.278
Yeah. They are the entity. What's crazy is the. So I was wondering this because I hadn't done the research yet. This was my first watch.
I was like, did they film and were they like actually doing this in reverse or is there some effect here? But they were doing choreography. So they had reversed choreography for fight scenes. And Kenneth Branagh specifically had to do.
He not only was doing the Russian accent, but he was also having to learn those backwards. And so those lines are him actually talking backwards with a Russian accent here.
Seth
00:36:04.334 - 00:36:06.060
Yeah. Yep, bro.
Kyle
00:36:06.840 - 00:36:13.168
When he said lack of effects, we're talking like, lack of effects. Yeah, like, we're talking backwards.
Junior Robles
00:36:13.264 - 00:36:14.320
That's crazy.
Kyle
00:36:14.400 - 00:36:15.072
Yeah, yeah.
Junior Robles
00:36:15.136 - 00:36:17.040
Learning Russian and then learning it backwards.
Seth
00:36:17.120 - 00:36:17.888
Yes, bro.
Kyle
00:36:17.944 - 00:36:19.600
And it sounded awesome.
Seth
00:36:19.680 - 00:36:20.080
So good.
Kyle
00:36:20.120 - 00:36:28.480
Because in that. Isn't that the scene where he's like, I thought you said these. These were Estonians or whatever in the car.
And he's like, they are, you know, but then they're like trying to figure out what the accent is. And.
Seth
00:36:28.520 - 00:36:43.118
Well, there's that, but there's also the scene where. Where he's on either side of the.
The turnstile and so he sees Kenneth Branagh and the wife on the other side and he's threatening her, trying to get the information on where the piece of the puzzle is. Yeah.
Kyle
00:36:43.214 - 00:36:43.918
Wow.
Seth
00:36:44.094 - 00:36:44.782
So good.
Kyle
00:36:44.886 - 00:36:47.982
That's the stuff that makes me excited. Kind of what you said earlier, people.
Junior Robles
00:36:48.086 - 00:36:49.726
All over this movie when it came out.
Seth
00:36:49.798 - 00:36:50.286
I know.
Kyle
00:36:50.358 - 00:36:54.030
That's why I said my intro. Does this movie deserve a bogey? It just came out at the wrong time.
Junior Robles
00:36:54.070 - 00:37:13.704
That's crazy. Like, and I did watch it just, just today. And so, like. Like, I kind of can't believe that reaction. I think it's one of those things that got like.
Like just kind of mushroom clouded pun Intended, actually. But.
Yeah, but like, over time, just like the one person didn't like it and then all of a sudden, I guess maybe people were in a surly mood anyway because Pandemic.
Seth
00:37:13.752 - 00:37:31.424
So, like, I'll say this as someone who absolutely loves Christopher Nolan, I don't think it's his best movie. It's probably top five for me.
But I think people putting it at the bottom just either just did not understand it or were choosing to be part of that contrarian crowd that was just like, oh, it was for this reason.
Kyle
00:37:31.512 - 00:37:31.872
Yeah.
Seth
00:37:31.936 - 00:37:45.920
No, this is. You try to come up with something like this.
You try to go in there and be like, no, we're gonna make you walk backwards, but I need you to look like you're walking forwards because we're gonna reverse this shot so that he's actually walking backwards. Like you try to come up with something.
Kyle
00:37:45.960 - 00:37:46.368
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:37:46.464 - 00:37:48.880
This is one of the highest concept, high concept movies.
Seth
00:37:48.960 - 00:38:03.780
Seriously. And. And yet at the same time, done for, like, incredibly low production value. Like, again, you're.
You don't have all sorts of crazy computer effects happening. Everything's done in camera. Everything's done using old school film techniques.
Kyle
00:38:03.940 - 00:38:19.972
Well, it's the trade off of every great artist, every great artisan. And that trade off is they. For the high art concept for. And. And they wouldn't call themselves high art. But.
But those who are capable of generating high art in whatever art form that is, the trade off is they're not going to spoon feed you.
Seth
00:38:19.996 - 00:38:20.292
Yeah.
Kyle
00:38:20.356 - 00:38:23.452
And that. They have no desire to spoon feed you. You come to the trough.
Seth
00:38:23.516 - 00:38:23.804
Yeah.
Kyle
00:38:23.852 - 00:38:25.900
And you take from it and they want you to interpret it.
Seth
00:38:25.940 - 00:38:32.812
And even then Nolan kind of tries to spoon feed everybody more so than others. Yeah. He does what he can to explain everything you need to know at the beginning.
Kyle
00:38:32.876 - 00:38:33.164
Yeah.
Seth
00:38:33.212 - 00:38:36.284
And then he's like, all right, if you don't understand it, you're shit out of luck. I'm sorry.
Kyle
00:38:36.332 - 00:38:51.884
Like, that's the trade off of Kubrick.
If you did a Kubrick film, Barry Lyndon, the Shining, and he wasn't explicit about it in the Shining, but if you were doing the Shining, you had to be committed and Eyes Wide Shut, you couldn't do anything else. You signed Nicole Kidman, Tom Cruise, they all signed contracts and said, you will do nothing else.
Seth
00:38:51.932 - 00:38:52.204
Yeah.
Kyle
00:38:52.252 - 00:39:17.256
You are doing this movie for this amount of time and you're contractually obligated. That was the trade off. And that was the simplest version of this is, you know, and this. You'll laugh at this. But the Soup Nazi in seinfeld yeah.
Right. You suffer for your soup. Why would I expect any less from my customers? You know what I'm saying? And that.
But that actually in simple terms explains the great artisan dilemma, which is you're going to create this thing and. But I'm not going to spoon feed it to you. Come to me.
Seth
00:39:17.328 - 00:39:17.736
Exactly.
Kyle
00:39:17.768 - 00:39:19.528
I present it and you take away what you will.
Seth
00:39:19.584 - 00:39:19.864
Yeah.
Kyle
00:39:19.912 - 00:39:23.352
And that's. It's risky because some people won't get it and they're going to shit on it.
Seth
00:39:23.376 - 00:39:26.456
Yeah. So it is what it is. Art is that subjective.
Kyle
00:39:26.568 - 00:39:27.096
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:39:27.208 - 00:39:29.240
What was the rando for this one? I forgot.
Kyle
00:39:29.400 - 00:39:33.940
Oh, we were. Oh, they were working backwards. The conversation is just so good. We keep going.
Seth
00:39:35.360 - 00:39:37.224
Yeah. The lack of visual effects, people moving.
Kyle
00:39:37.272 - 00:39:40.392
And speaking backwards, learning Russian and learning talking backwards.
Junior Robles
00:39:40.456 - 00:39:58.788
So, okay, so when is when they do like the explosions in that last big set piece where they're in the desert and like they have the explosions that are exploding and then the explosions that are imploding because they're backwards in time. Is that. Oh, so I just bumped the mic. Is that all practical? Yep, that is it. So that it's just like superimposed.
Seth
00:39:58.884 - 00:40:17.504
That one shot that looks like, you know, the two shots. That's actually four shots put together.
One of it exploding, but then going up so they can reverse it and then it exploding in forward time and then they swap to the other side where the top comes together and then the bottom explodes. That's four shots put together to look like two shots.
Junior Robles
00:40:17.552 - 00:40:18.112
That's wild.
Seth
00:40:18.176 - 00:40:24.380
Yeah. But again, no green screen was involved in that. It's just a miniature set that they blew up four times.
Kyle
00:40:25.400 - 00:40:54.440
So this is crazy. They worked on the script and the screenplay for six years, but this was on Nolan's mind for 20 years. This concept he had had for 20 years.
And he was kind of obsessed with this, these details. So it's really, you know, maybe this is the, the inception of this idea of where his time obsession actually began.
Obviously Memento was kind of the kickoff, but this is, this is an idea that, that supersedes a lot of the movies he's released that revolve around these concepts.
Seth
00:40:54.520 - 00:41:06.248
Yeah, I feel like he started working on the concept for this around the same time as when he started working on Inception. Cuz inception was 2010, came out 10 years before this one. And at the time he was like, oh yeah, I've been writing the script for 10 years.
Junior Robles
00:41:06.304 - 00:41:06.680
Yeah.
Seth
00:41:06.760 - 00:41:18.120
So I feel like he came up with the concepts. But like Inception, I think he was able to. To wrap his brain around a little better at first.
And then that kind of was his stepping stone into being able to do this one.
Kyle
00:41:18.240 - 00:41:18.632
Wow.
Seth
00:41:18.696 - 00:41:19.416
Yeah.
Kyle
00:41:19.608 - 00:41:25.624
Also at the time, this was the largest budget. 205 million for an original non franchise film.
Seth
00:41:25.712 - 00:41:26.248
Damn.
Kyle
00:41:26.344 - 00:41:31.978
So not a marvel, not something that's in a series original film. At the time. 205 million. It was, I think it was his.
Seth
00:41:32.034 - 00:41:35.322
Second largest budget in general. Directly behind the Dark Knight Rises.
Kyle
00:41:35.386 - 00:41:35.674
Yeah.
Seth
00:41:35.722 - 00:41:39.018
Yeah, that's a huge budget. Yeah. Dark Knight rises was 235 million.
Kyle
00:41:39.074 - 00:41:41.050
Is this the largest budget we've discussed?
Seth
00:41:41.210 - 00:41:41.962
Maybe.
Kyle
00:41:42.106 - 00:41:50.906
Because I don't think we've hit past 100 million yet on a movie we've discussed. What was the new crow one made for 50 million? Oh, yeah, 45 million.
Seth
00:41:50.978 - 00:41:53.514
This might be. Yeah, this might be.
Kyle
00:41:53.602 - 00:41:54.730
Talk about high concept.
Seth
00:41:54.810 - 00:41:55.226
Seriously.
Junior Robles
00:41:55.258 - 00:42:04.504
It makes sense though, because like he. I could see why he needed all of that. Yeah. For the.
And another thing that I've heard about him is that he wants to be really efficient with his budgets.
Seth
00:42:04.552 - 00:42:05.160
Oh, yeah.
Junior Robles
00:42:05.240 - 00:42:06.920
Like, so have you heard the story.
Seth
00:42:06.960 - 00:42:09.032
About the shooting schedule for Oppenheimer?
Junior Robles
00:42:09.096 - 00:42:09.672
Tell me.
Seth
00:42:09.776 - 00:42:38.956
So the original shooting schedule was, I think like 87 days. And then they realized they needed another $20 million to physically build Los Alamos. Because he.
To him, it was like, if we can't build the entire city of Los Alamos, it's not going to be worth it. And his production designer was like, we could build a few of the buildings, but we can't do it all. So he goes, give me a weekend. I.
I'll find you your money. And he comes back and he cut the shooting schedule down to 59 days and was like, we're going to do the whole movie in less than two months.
Here's your 20 million. Go build Los Alamos.
Kyle
00:42:39.068 - 00:42:41.196
He inversed and went back in time and found the money.
Junior Robles
00:42:41.268 - 00:42:45.548
Basically went into the bank vacuum thing.
Seth
00:42:45.604 - 00:42:53.262
Yeah. And. And was like, we don't need. We can put this on this day. We can put this on this day. We don't need all this time.
Cut an entire month out of the shooting schedule.
Kyle
00:42:53.326 - 00:42:53.662
Wow.
Seth
00:42:53.726 - 00:42:56.206
And there was the 20 million to build what he needed to build.
Kyle
00:42:56.278 - 00:43:00.174
And this sounds cheesy, but that's probably my favorite thing about that movie. Is that set?
Seth
00:43:00.262 - 00:43:01.694
Well, I mean, half the time.
Kyle
00:43:01.862 - 00:43:02.254
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:43:02.302 - 00:43:02.830
Oh, yeah.
Seth
00:43:02.910 - 00:43:18.018
It's incredible.
And half the time, like whenever they're out in like a field or whatever, all the actors were saying, it was literally Nolan, Hoyta Van Hoytema with, with his IMAX rig and the sound guy. And those were the only crew members on set.
Kyle
00:43:18.074 - 00:43:18.802
Oh, I love that.
Seth
00:43:18.826 - 00:43:19.170
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:43:19.250 - 00:43:20.850
Can I just say something about Oppenheimer, too?
Seth
00:43:20.890 - 00:43:21.298
Yeah, yeah.
Junior Robles
00:43:21.314 - 00:43:25.730
This goes out to all you people who are bored by Oppenheimer. Just chill the out with that.
Kyle
00:43:25.850 - 00:43:27.010
The Bordenheimers.
Junior Robles
00:43:27.090 - 00:43:39.458
Come on, man. Just maybe just, like, watch the movie. Like, I don't know. And like. And, like, get over that. There's not always explosions.
There's a huge explosion in the middle of the movie. That's probably the one of the greatest explosions you'll ever see.
Seth
00:43:39.514 - 00:43:46.366
So many people criticize that. They say it looks fake. As I'm like, did you watch the actual Trinity explosion? It looks almost identical.
Kyle
00:43:46.498 - 00:43:52.598
I also think, did they want to. Did they think it was going to be World War II footage? Like, was it going to be a World War II film?
Seth
00:43:52.654 - 00:44:01.174
They were expecting that. That explosion to look like the megaton explosions that we're used to seeing in nuclear test footage.
Kyle
00:44:01.222 - 00:44:01.638
Yeah.
Seth
00:44:01.734 - 00:44:16.052
So when you literally go back to the very first, smallest nuclear explosion in history, everyone's like, oh, it just looks like a gasoline explosion. Okay. Yeah, it technically was, but it looks like the actual Trinity footage. Like, come on, guys.
Junior Robles
00:44:16.116 - 00:44:21.924
The coolest. Like, the coolest thing to watch in Oppenheimer is the acting, right? It's the actors doing the acting.
Seth
00:44:21.972 - 00:44:22.340
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:44:22.420 - 00:44:23.428
It's so good.
Seth
00:44:23.484 - 00:44:24.500
It's so good.
Junior Robles
00:44:24.620 - 00:44:25.060
Like, and.
Seth
00:44:25.100 - 00:44:28.228
And I think that's the hardest Josh Peck has ever acted in his life.
Kyle
00:44:28.284 - 00:44:28.612
Yeah.
Seth
00:44:28.676 - 00:44:33.972
Like, I think the whole time he's just like, I'mma do it. I'm here in front of Christopher Nolan. I'm going to push that button.
Junior Robles
00:44:34.116 - 00:44:35.044
Hell yeah, man.
Kyle
00:44:35.132 - 00:44:38.516
Well, the music and everything and the. The tension. The tension.
Junior Robles
00:44:38.628 - 00:44:51.446
Okay. If you were bored by Oppenheimer, okay, that's. You get to be bored by Oppenheimer, that's fine. But, like, it, you know, not, you know, it's.
It's also fine to be really excited by seeing this really amazing piece of film.
Kyle
00:44:51.518 - 00:44:57.094
And if there's anyone to ding for realism. Let's. Let's maybe leave no one out of that conversation.
Seth
00:44:57.142 - 00:44:58.118
Yeah. For real. Yeah.
Kyle
00:44:58.214 - 00:45:14.432
This is the dude that spent millions of dollars on the cafe scene on air cannons. Yeah. In Inception. So that it was truly stuff exploding. And, yeah. They had one shot, and he argued to get a second camera.
He did not want that second camera. Like, we have to get the second camera because we this up.
Seth
00:45:14.456 - 00:45:14.800
Yeah.
Kyle
00:45:14.880 - 00:45:18.864
And he was like, fine, let's not argue about realism with Mr. Nolan.
Seth
00:45:18.912 - 00:45:19.980
Yeah. For real.
Junior Robles
00:45:20.760 - 00:45:28.960
Well, also, that movie is about maybe the most important moment in history, in modern history. Like, and it deserves to look at the people who made it.
Seth
00:45:29.000 - 00:45:29.264
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:45:29.312 - 00:45:32.832
You know, and so, I don't know. Like, it's not Inception, guys.
Seth
00:45:32.896 - 00:45:33.352
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:45:33.456 - 00:45:36.056
We're not doing the Dark Knight. It's a different kind of. It's a biopic.
Kyle
00:45:36.088 - 00:45:36.888
It's a human film.
Seth
00:45:36.944 - 00:45:37.224
Yeah.
Kyle
00:45:37.272 - 00:45:38.744
It's not about the bomb. It's about the humans.
Junior Robles
00:45:38.792 - 00:45:40.824
It's a biopic about a bunch of science nerds.
Seth
00:45:40.872 - 00:45:41.144
Yeah.
Kyle
00:45:41.192 - 00:45:41.820
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:45:42.320 - 00:45:45.384
So, yeah, a lot of your stuff, a lot of your action sequences are going to be at chalkboards.
Seth
00:45:45.432 - 00:45:45.896
Yeah.
Kyle
00:45:46.008 - 00:46:00.402
I love what you said. Preach it. Preach it, brother. And lastly, this was my favorite thing I uncovered. So obviously, he took a creative Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.
Liberties earlier on New Year's Eve. Yeah, yeah. His liberty hurts.
Seth
00:46:00.466 - 00:46:01.858
Yeah, yeah.
Kyle
00:46:02.034 - 00:46:16.402
So in Inception, he. He says. Which is hard to believe. I don't know if I believe him, but he does that. He did zero research for Inception on Dreams or anything like that.
But this one, he partnered and became friends with and got feedback from physicist, renowned physics physicist Kip Thorne.
Seth
00:46:16.466 - 00:46:16.738
Okay.
Kyle
00:46:16.754 - 00:46:24.286
And he looked at the script and he. They worked through these concepts together. And he's considered, I guess, an academic. Academic genius. I don't dabble in.
Seth
00:46:24.378 - 00:46:24.694
Yeah.
Kyle
00:46:24.742 - 00:46:25.046
Physics.
Seth
00:46:25.078 - 00:46:29.654
But I think he's also credited as an executive producer. Like, that's how involved he was in this movie.
Kyle
00:46:29.702 - 00:46:30.214
That's awesome.
Seth
00:46:30.262 - 00:46:30.774
Yeah.
Kyle
00:46:30.902 - 00:46:34.918
So he took a few liberties, but based on my research, he didn't. He didn't go too, too far.
Seth
00:46:34.974 - 00:46:35.750
Yeah, yeah.
Junior Robles
00:46:35.830 - 00:46:38.810
No relation to Rip Torn, the actor.
Kyle
00:46:39.150 - 00:46:41.046
Or Richard Thorne and Omen 2.
Junior Robles
00:46:41.118 - 00:46:42.118
Oh, wow. Okay.
Seth
00:46:42.214 - 00:46:42.614
Damn.
Kyle
00:46:42.662 - 00:46:48.182
Damn. Sorry. I just. I felt like I had to go back farther than you. I was like, how can I beat this guy? But I.
Junior Robles
00:46:48.286 - 00:46:52.436
Maybe they're all three the same person. Maybe they're ten versions each other.
Kyle
00:46:52.508 - 00:46:52.852
Yes.
Seth
00:46:52.916 - 00:46:53.524
There we go.
Kyle
00:46:53.612 - 00:46:54.280
Yes.
Junior Robles
00:46:55.100 - 00:46:57.556
Kip Thorne, Rip Torn, and Richard Thorne.
Kyle
00:46:57.668 - 00:46:59.428
Kip's kind of a weird scientist name.
Seth
00:46:59.484 - 00:47:00.884
A little bit. Yeah, yeah.
Kyle
00:47:00.932 - 00:47:02.724
Yes. Eagle Scout. That's an Eagle Scout.
Junior Robles
00:47:02.772 - 00:47:06.612
I know some music musicians named Kip Napoleon Dynamite's brother.
Seth
00:47:06.756 - 00:47:08.164
I've never seen Napoleon Dynamite.
Junior Robles
00:47:08.212 - 00:47:09.668
Oh, that's the next movie we should do.
Seth
00:47:09.804 - 00:47:14.388
I don't know. Kind of like the reaction of people who. Who hear me say, I've never seen it before.
Kyle
00:47:14.444 - 00:47:15.200
I've never.
Seth
00:47:15.660 - 00:47:16.452
Sorry.
Kyle
00:47:16.596 - 00:47:17.464
I've never.
Seth
00:47:17.612 - 00:47:19.100
It's not on our list.
Kyle
00:47:19.640 - 00:47:31.040
It's funny. We have literally almost thousand movies on a list that we want to cover, and that's not on there.
It's because it was just in my face when it came up, people. The. The, The. The impersonations.
Seth
00:47:31.120 - 00:47:32.608
Yeah. No, One would shut up.
Kyle
00:47:32.664 - 00:47:36.880
No one would shut up. And when I finally saw it, I was like, this is the dog that I thought it would be. Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:47:37.040 - 00:47:39.424
Might be the pinnacle of civilization for me.
Kyle
00:47:39.592 - 00:47:52.460
Nice. Well, maybe you should start a podcast. I'm just kidding. No, I could be convinced. Yeah, just like. Just like everything else about. For sale.
Junior Robles
00:47:52.540 - 00:48:11.420
So I've been showing my kid YouTube videos of some of my favorite movies, but just the clips, right? Because you know, who has time to watch a whole movie, right? So like. So I showed her like some clips or it just came up on my algorithm on YouTube.
The Napoleon Dynamite best of scenes. Dude, it was cracking her shit up. She's like an eight year old kid and she, you know, like.
Seth
00:48:11.460 - 00:48:13.676
Like when I feel like that's who it was made for. Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:48:13.788 - 00:48:18.708
Spoiler alert, Seth. But. Yeah, right, Spoiler. But like Uncle Rico throws a steak and it hits Napoleon, right?
Seth
00:48:18.764 - 00:48:19.716
Oh, yeah, I've seen that, dude.
Junior Robles
00:48:19.748 - 00:48:23.588
She rolled on the floor laughing, like for three minutes straight.
Kyle
00:48:23.764 - 00:48:25.124
Maybe I should show it to my kids.
Seth
00:48:25.172 - 00:48:26.548
I mean, maybe they'd like it.
Kyle
00:48:26.684 - 00:48:37.092
I'm teetering with that. Or Terminator for my son. So Terminator double feature, man. Yeah, double feature. Cover your eyes. Shall we manipulate entropy?
Seth
00:48:37.156 - 00:48:37.700
Let's do it.
Kyle
00:48:37.740 - 00:48:39.252
Shall we inverse our materials?
Seth
00:48:39.316 - 00:48:41.396
Let's temporal pincer this bitch.
Kyle
00:48:41.588 - 00:48:53.792
Let's war. Yes. Let's. Let's do a. Yeah, that's better. Let's do a pincer. I love that, that just that word tempor. Spencer, that's just so good.
Top Bill cast John David Washington and Mr. Robert Pattinson.
Seth
00:48:53.856 - 00:48:54.352
Amazing.
Junior Robles
00:48:54.416 - 00:48:54.912
Killer.
Seth
00:48:54.976 - 00:49:18.680
I again, I love the fact that Robert Pattinson supposedly knows everything that's happening and literally knew nothing about what was happening. Even after reading the script multiple times was just like, I don't know. I just do what Nolan tells me.
And again, I think for the character that was created for John David Washington, I think he. He did it perfectly. I couldn't see anyone else convincingly in that character. So remind me what the positive one is.
Kyle
00:49:18.800 - 00:49:19.464
Entropy.
Seth
00:49:19.512 - 00:49:19.944
Entropy.
Kyle
00:49:19.992 - 00:49:21.256
And negative is a paradox.
Seth
00:49:21.288 - 00:49:22.696
You know, entropy on this one.
Kyle
00:49:22.768 - 00:49:23.112
Boom.
Junior Robles
00:49:23.176 - 00:49:24.264
Oh, so we're doing like.
Seth
00:49:24.352 - 00:49:24.696
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:49:24.728 - 00:49:28.184
Oh, that's okay. So, well, definitely. What's the good one?
Kyle
00:49:28.272 - 00:49:28.968
Entropy.
Junior Robles
00:49:29.064 - 00:49:38.904
Entropy for both of them. They both rocked for me. But I think this was. And I haven't followed Pattinson much. I didn't see him in the Batman that he did or anything.
Seth
00:49:38.952 - 00:49:39.640
He was good.
Junior Robles
00:49:39.760 - 00:49:40.040
But.
Seth
00:49:40.080 - 00:49:40.450
All right.
Junior Robles
00:49:40.520 - 00:49:45.646
But this is like one of the first things. And I watched all of the Twilight movies, of course.
Kyle
00:49:45.798 - 00:49:46.318
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:49:46.414 - 00:49:49.726
But like, this is the first Time I've seen him in, like, an action sort of thing.
Seth
00:49:49.798 - 00:49:51.022
Yeah, he's great.
Junior Robles
00:49:51.206 - 00:49:56.478
And I think he's got. And it's cool because, like, he's way more famous than John David Washington, it would say.
Kyle
00:49:56.534 - 00:49:56.958
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:49:57.054 - 00:49:59.294
But he's like the number two guy in this movie.
Seth
00:49:59.342 - 00:49:59.614
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:49:59.662 - 00:50:05.598
And, dude, I would. He just seems like a really great actor, someone really great to work with.
Seth
00:50:05.654 - 00:50:06.126
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:50:06.238 - 00:50:12.352
And the choices he made with. With that character, just. Yeah. I have no notes. He was excellent.
Seth
00:50:12.416 - 00:50:12.896
Yeah.
Kyle
00:50:13.008 - 00:50:13.808
I totally agree.
Junior Robles
00:50:13.864 - 00:50:23.488
And I like jdw, too. Yeah. I did kind of feel like he was. I don't know, like, there were. I hear the critiques about how he was a little flat at times.
Seth
00:50:23.544 - 00:50:23.872
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:50:23.936 - 00:50:31.920
And I did kind of notice that, like, some of. Some of this. The face acting he was doing, I felt could have been maybe a little more interesting. But. But I did like the choices he made, too.
Seth
00:50:32.040 - 00:50:50.306
And again, I think part of that had to do with the fact that he is playing this anonymous, his character in the whole movie. He's trying to mask his emotions. So he is trying to have a little bit of a flatter kind of face with. With.
With the emotional side of things, like you said. I do totally get the criticisms, but I. I think it lended itself towards this character.
Junior Robles
00:50:50.418 - 00:50:51.314
Yeah, he was awesome.
Seth
00:50:51.362 - 00:50:51.634
Yeah.
Kyle
00:50:51.682 - 00:50:58.898
Yeah. I totally. Yeah, I go entropy here. Love John David Washington. I think. I think there's. Should we. It's kind of surprising we haven't seen him in more.
Seth
00:50:58.954 - 00:50:59.186
Yeah.
Kyle
00:50:59.218 - 00:51:10.560
I actually think I liked your point earlier, that he nails what he's supposed to, this kind of staccato CIA guy. He's an entity. He's not supposed to fluctuate emotionally. That's not why you. That's not how you become the number one guy at the CIA.
Seth
00:51:10.640 - 00:51:12.912
And when he does, that's when goes wrong.
Kyle
00:51:12.976 - 00:51:18.224
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's the moments where he's cowering to his. His feelings towards Cat.
Seth
00:51:18.272 - 00:51:18.496
Yeah.
Kyle
00:51:18.528 - 00:51:19.824
Or is that. That's her name. Right.
Junior Robles
00:51:19.912 - 00:51:58.308
Another thing about that sort of flatness is he is literally the protagonist of the movie. And. And he's called that.
And it kind of gets back to what I was saying earlier about how a lot of Nolan movies are about, like, the experience of watching a movie or the experience of getting a story. And I think with a protagonist, a lot of times as viewers, we project ourselves or we project our.
Some version of ourselves onto this person and, like, that choice to be sort of. I don't know if flat is even the right word, but, like, neutral in a lot of moments. Yeah. I.
I think maybe there is something to that, like, underlying subtext of, like, you're. You're projecting something onto him and he's allowing it to happen.
Seth
00:51:58.364 - 00:51:58.812
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:51:58.916 - 00:52:06.732
So. So I like it in that sense, but I do think, like, in certain moments, I did kind of feel like I wanted a little more from him sometimes.
Seth
00:52:06.796 - 00:52:07.116
But.
Junior Robles
00:52:07.188 - 00:52:09.484
But in retrospect, I really love what he did.
Kyle
00:52:09.572 - 00:52:23.036
If this is really a love letter to Bond, think about every Bond. I know. We think of Sean Connery as this wily guy and eccentric, and he has been. But if you go back and watch those.
The Bond character, whoever's playing Bond, is very consistent.
Seth
00:52:23.068 - 00:52:23.276
Yeah.
Kyle
00:52:23.308 - 00:52:32.012
Like, I would say Craig shows the most volatility of all of them, but that's because it was made for this new generation of, like, every. Everybody's got to be an anti hero. Everyone's got to be darker.
Seth
00:52:32.076 - 00:52:32.316
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:52:32.348 - 00:52:32.492
But.
Kyle
00:52:32.516 - 00:52:36.236
But up until Daniel Craig, the Bond character was very staccato.
Seth
00:52:36.268 - 00:52:36.476
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:52:36.508 - 00:52:46.556
Yeah. So literally, like in. In Liter, if you study literature, like, a flat character is someone who doesn't really.
Kind of keeps the same characteristics and doesn't really change over the course of the movie.
Seth
00:52:46.588 - 00:52:46.796
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:52:46.828 - 00:52:53.788
They are who they always were. And Bond is like that. And I kind of think the protagonist in this movie is kind of like that, too.
Seth
00:52:53.844 - 00:52:54.654
Yeah, I agree.
Kyle
00:52:54.732 - 00:52:55.082
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:52:55.146 - 00:52:56.634
Not a whole lot of change. Yeah.
Kyle
00:52:56.682 - 00:52:59.386
Yeah. Go back and watch. If you don't think so, go back and watch old Bonds.
Seth
00:52:59.418 - 00:52:59.754
Yeah.
Kyle
00:52:59.802 - 00:53:12.058
People, and you'll see it. You'll see all the old.
And one more thing about Pattinson, one thing I laughed about watching this is that a lot of people I talk to about the Batman, they like, oh, Pattinson's coming out party. He is a good actor. I'm like, you know how much shit he's done.
Seth
00:53:12.114 - 00:53:12.442
Yeah.
Kyle
00:53:12.506 - 00:53:15.754
Since Twilight. Have you seen House? Cause Cosmopolis.
Seth
00:53:15.802 - 00:53:17.850
Yeah, he's. I haven't seen that, but I've heard about it.
Kyle
00:53:17.890 - 00:53:27.890
Yeah, he's just. He's like. You just haven't been paying attention. Like. Yeah, he did Tenant. He did all these other things. Like, the dude, he.
Yeah, Twilight was over a long time ago. He's been doing some shit. He's really good.
Junior Robles
00:53:28.750 - 00:53:31.318
He was really good in Twilight. Sure, he was.
Seth
00:53:31.374 - 00:53:32.358
I'll take your word for it.
Junior Robles
00:53:32.414 - 00:53:39.510
Look, he. He had some interesting stuff to work with. And he was also really young, but, like, he did exactly the thing he was supposed to do in Twitter.
Seth
00:53:39.590 - 00:53:40.326
I bet he did.
Kyle
00:53:40.398 - 00:54:04.840
I will say, here's the one positive thing I'll say about Twilight. This is the mark of great Actors that they can dip into complete pop culture mass hysteria and do that, and then they can go do a Nolan film.
It does speak to a range that not everyone has. You know, Nicholson has that range where he can go, you know, with that Diane Keaton movie he did. It was after as Good as It Gets.
But, like, you know, he can go. He can go total pop culture and.
Seth
00:54:04.880 - 00:54:06.472
He can go do the bucket list and then.
Kyle
00:54:06.496 - 00:54:28.474
Yeah, and then he can go do Scorsese. But he was also in the Shining and, you know, all these great indie films he used to do. So a Knight Rider, you know, so, yeah, it is one to zero.
We are experiencing entropy. I hope our cellular counts are doing okay. God, I gotta get better at those supporting cast. Am I saying this right? Elizabeth Debecky Debiki?
Seth
00:54:28.522 - 00:54:28.794
Probably.
Junior Robles
00:54:28.842 - 00:54:29.850
I think it's Debicky.
Kyle
00:54:29.930 - 00:54:39.498
This is the only character in the film who was specifically that role was written for. So he had her in mind as Cat. Loved this actress. Dimple Kapadia as Priya.
Seth
00:54:39.594 - 00:54:40.298
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:54:40.474 - 00:54:41.674
Bollywood legend.
Kyle
00:54:41.802 - 00:54:44.186
Yeah. Michael Caine is Sir Michael Crosby.
Junior Robles
00:54:44.298 - 00:54:44.970
He's all right.
Kyle
00:54:45.010 - 00:54:56.500
Yeah, he was Douche Blood. Blood money roll. And then, of course, the great Kenneth Branagh, who was, by the way, way down on the pay scale for this movie. Like you. I had to.
I had to click into the cast list.
Seth
00:54:56.540 - 00:54:56.756
Yeah.
Kyle
00:54:56.788 - 00:55:00.468
On night because, you know, they had the front cast list on IMDb. You have to expand it to even get to him.
Seth
00:55:00.524 - 00:55:09.540
Yeah. I mean, this may have been his third, but definitely his second time working with Nolan. He was in Dunkirk as, I think, an admiral.
Junior Robles
00:55:09.620 - 00:55:10.612
I didn't see Dunkirk.
Seth
00:55:10.676 - 00:55:13.770
Oh, it's so good. Yeah, Very good. For a war film.
Kyle
00:55:14.070 - 00:55:15.470
A different type of war film.
Seth
00:55:15.510 - 00:55:16.670
Yeah, very. Definitely.
Junior Robles
00:55:16.750 - 00:55:19.550
Is that the one that was in One Shot or. No, that's 1970.
Seth
00:55:19.590 - 00:55:20.398
That's 1917.
Junior Robles
00:55:20.454 - 00:55:20.766
Okay.
Seth
00:55:20.798 - 00:55:23.790
Yeah. No, this one. This. Oh, my God, it's so good.
Kyle
00:55:23.830 - 00:55:29.118
But it has incredible picturesque shots. Like, you talk about Nolan films and portraits.
Junior Robles
00:55:29.214 - 00:55:29.694
Oh, yeah.
Kyle
00:55:29.742 - 00:55:33.326
The portraits in that, in terms of still shots are just also, it proved.
Seth
00:55:33.358 - 00:55:38.184
To me that if you have a good director, anyone can act, because Harry Styles, that was his first movie.
Kyle
00:55:38.232 - 00:55:38.824
Oh, my God.
Seth
00:55:38.872 - 00:55:45.368
And he. He killed it in that movie. He did such a good job. So. Yeah.
Kyle
00:55:45.464 - 00:55:49.496
But yeah, Kenneth. Kenneth Brana's Sader Sator Seder.
Seth
00:55:49.608 - 00:56:49.158
I think every again, it's like, I. For a movie like this, for a spy movie, I'm not looking for this, like, intense emotional depth. I want enough that. That you are your character and I.
I feel the way I do about you. Kenneth Branagh especially, I think went above and beyond what any Bond villain has ever done. As much as I loved Mads Mikkelsen in, In the.
The first of Daniel Craig's James Bonds, he's still kind of just an anonymous faceless guy that you only meet in the third act.
The fact that you're hanging out with Sator throughout the whole thing and, and really getting in depth on not only who he is, but how he's treating his wife and why he is so mad at her and using the kid to, to kind of hold it over her. There's so much depth to the character and I think every line he delivers, he really delivers that. I think Kat did a great job.
I think Priya was so much fun to watch on screen. Yeah, I think everybody fucking killed it.
Kyle
00:56:49.214 - 00:56:50.690
I love that. What do you think?
Junior Robles
00:56:50.990 - 00:57:00.288
Yeah, everybody was incredible in that. In that list. I guess A little more about Branagh, just real quick, I think. Oh, what was I gonna say?
Seth
00:57:00.344 - 00:57:02.928
Other than your clear sexual attraction to him in this role?
Junior Robles
00:57:03.064 - 00:57:05.040
Well, I mean, that, that's. That definitely comes first.
Kyle
00:57:05.080 - 00:57:05.780
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:57:06.280 - 00:57:09.040
But, yeah, he was jacked. He looked pretty jacked in this.
Kyle
00:57:09.080 - 00:57:09.344
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:57:09.392 - 00:57:13.952
Like, I remember, like watching him in the Shakespeare movies in the 90s where he's kind of skinny, you know, and.
Seth
00:57:13.976 - 00:57:29.130
Yeah. Like, I mean, if you look at him in Dunkirk, literally, I think three, four years before this.
Three years, maybe he's, he's not skinny, but he's not jacked either. He's just kind of a normal looking guy in it. So he, he clearly took on a physical Persona for this role.
Junior Robles
00:57:29.170 - 00:57:55.726
Yeah, but like, so a lot of times with a lot of people see sort of a difference between film acting and theater acting, where, like, in theater you have to be really big and broad and on film you want to be really quiet. And Michael Caine talks about this.
He says that acting on stage is like doing surgery with a scalpel and acting in film is like doing surgery with a laser. And that's the way he sees it. But for me, like, I've never really thought that, like, that it's really that different.
Seth
00:57:55.798 - 00:57:56.286
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:57:56.398 - 00:58:14.998
And a lot of actors kind of will kind of think that, oh, I have to be really. Like, I have to do a lot of whispering.
If I want to be menacing, I'm going to whisper like, Branagh goes balls to the wall at this point in both directions. He's massive. Like, and, but especially when he's huge, like, he really goes for it.
Seth
00:58:15.094 - 00:58:15.558
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:58:15.654 - 00:58:18.326
And I think the character deserves that.
Seth
00:58:18.398 - 00:58:18.694
Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:58:18.742 - 00:58:23.814
Like, he's got to be Big. Because he's trying to destroy the world, literally. So, like.
Seth
00:58:23.902 - 00:58:24.150
So.
Junior Robles
00:58:24.190 - 00:58:25.606
Yeah. And so, yeah.
Kyle
00:58:25.638 - 00:58:26.070
That.
Junior Robles
00:58:26.190 - 00:58:45.206
One of the many things I love about Branagh is. Is how big he is in this movie. And. And part of that does come from probably his classical training stuff, but part of it is the choice of the actor.
But I love Elizabeth Debicki in this, too. She's. Yeah, she's really pretty and everything, and. But. But she has a lot of depth. And what a character.
Seth
00:58:45.318 - 00:58:54.050
Oh, my God. Like, y. Nolan doesn't know how to write women. Like, watch this movie and watch the way that she is reacting to everything that's happening to her.
Junior Robles
00:58:54.090 - 00:58:55.170
Oh, she so good.
Kyle
00:58:55.210 - 00:58:58.530
And this absolves him of his Gyllenha hall sins.
Seth
00:58:58.610 - 00:58:59.362
Yeah. Yeah.
Junior Robles
00:58:59.426 - 00:59:01.426
I love Mega Gyllenha hall in.
Seth
00:59:01.498 - 00:59:03.298
I hated her. I hated her so much.
Kyle
00:59:03.434 - 00:59:06.210
I just wanted to trigger him. I know how he feels.
Junior Robles
00:59:06.290 - 00:59:10.274
I love M. Gyllenhaal. We can. We can fight about this.
Kyle
00:59:10.362 - 00:59:21.360
Yeah, that's a. That's a side pod. You. You said something that actually was exactly in line with my thoughts is that. Yeah, he's. He's kind of jacked in it, Kenneth.
But he's not tall necessarily.
Junior Robles
00:59:21.440 - 00:59:21.744
Yeah.
Kyle
00:59:21.792 - 00:59:22.960
But, yeah, huge.
Seth
00:59:23.040 - 00:59:23.344
Yeah.
Kyle
00:59:23.392 - 00:59:27.120
Like, he is almost. The way I thought of is like, he is a boulder.
Seth
00:59:27.200 - 00:59:27.584
Yeah.
Kyle
00:59:27.632 - 00:59:46.528
In every scene, he's like, the thickness of his dialogue and the things he's saying and his facial expression, there's a heaviness.
And I don't mean, like, in a bad way, but the heaviness that you should experience from someone who wants to end the world and has endured nothing but pain and hardship their whole life and is now taking revenge on the world. Yeah, he does that tfold.
Junior Robles
00:59:46.624 - 00:59:49.568
He looks like Zangief from the Street Fighter video game.
Kyle
00:59:49.624 - 00:59:59.056
Yeah, that's actually. That's actually. Yeah. But, yeah, I'm just like. There's just this heaviness. You just feel it like, oh, my God, this guy does want to destroy the world.
Seth
00:59:59.128 - 00:59:59.568
Yeah.
Kyle
00:59:59.664 - 01:00:11.292
And when Cat first walks on, I'm like, did Nolan, like, hire a supermodel here? Like, who is she? And then she just like, yeah, he did. In one scene, in her best scene, she. Was she a supermodel before she was actress?
Junior Robles
01:00:11.356 - 01:00:11.868
I think so.
Kyle
01:00:11.924 - 01:00:13.676
Seemingly. I mean, she's. She's got that look.
Junior Robles
01:00:13.748 - 01:00:14.876
She's six'two bro.
Kyle
01:00:14.948 - 01:00:17.468
That's insane. She's an in Shorter than I am.
Seth
01:00:17.524 - 01:00:17.932
Damn.
Kyle
01:00:17.996 - 01:00:20.316
The last scene where she's having to pretend.
Junior Robles
01:00:20.428 - 01:00:20.764
Yeah.
Kyle
01:00:20.812 - 01:00:39.152
To love him. Great. She showed a ton of range. She went from, like, forcing that Love. But you can tell it's kind of a forced love to. I can't do this.
To saving the day. Like all within a matter of minutes, man. She showed the whole thing. I thought Priya is not a write off character either. No, not a write off at all.
Seth
01:00:39.236 - 01:00:41.912
She was 29 when they shot this movie.
Kyle
01:00:41.976 - 01:00:42.296
Really?
Seth
01:00:42.368 - 01:00:44.776
Yeah, she was born in 1990.
Kyle
01:00:44.928 - 01:00:45.448
Wow.
Seth
01:00:45.544 - 01:00:50.648
Damn. I did forget she's in Guardians of the Galaxy. She's. She's one of the gold people in the second.
Kyle
01:00:50.704 - 01:00:51.704
You talk about Elizabeth.
Seth
01:00:51.752 - 01:00:52.120
Yeah.
Kyle
01:00:52.200 - 01:00:52.552
Wow.
Seth
01:00:52.616 - 01:00:52.856
Yeah.
Kyle
01:00:52.888 - 01:00:54.376
Blown away. Want to see her again.
Seth
01:00:54.448 - 01:00:56.840
Oh, and she was in Great Gatsby. That makes sense.
Junior Robles
01:00:57.000 - 01:01:09.790
Yeah. I'm not really familiar with a lot of Bollywood.
I haven't dug into Bollywood a lot, but apparently I did just in my very half assed research doing this. But I did find out that, that what's her name. Dimples. What's her last name?
Kyle
01:01:09.910 - 01:01:11.358
Had it pulled up going back.
Junior Robles
01:01:11.414 - 01:01:12.014
My bad, dude.
Kyle
01:01:12.062 - 01:01:15.134
No, it's all good. Kapadia, Dimples, Capari.
Junior Robles
01:01:15.182 - 01:01:24.190
I. I mean I could see why she's a famous actress. Yeah, she was really just. She, she had my attention every scene she was in.
Seth
01:01:24.230 - 01:01:27.966
Oh yeah. She was effortless at the effortlessly menacing dude.
Kyle
01:01:27.998 - 01:01:34.126
He. Christopher Nolan, now that you say that, he loves dipping into Bollywood. Oh yeah, he. And he pulls great actors and actresses from there.
Junior Robles
01:01:34.278 - 01:01:34.894
Yeah.
Kyle
01:01:35.022 - 01:02:12.564
All right. It is 2 to 0. We are experiencing more entropy. Step into the reversing mechanism with me writing.
And I actually had a different, not a different way to approach the category, but I wanted to break this down because I was looking, maybe looking for differences here. So I broke this down by movies that he's written alone and movies he's written with either Goyer or his brother. Yeah, movies that he's written alone.
Following Memento, Inception, Dunkirk, Tenet and then movies he's co written with Jonathan Nolan. The Prestige, the Dark Knight, Dark Knight Rises, Interstellar and then with David S. Goyer being involved. Batman Begins.
Dark Knight, Dark Knight Rises. Now obviously he has varying.
Seth
01:02:12.612 - 01:02:14.164
Yeah, he also did Oppenheimer alone.
Kyle
01:02:14.212 - 01:02:28.392
He did Oppenheimer alone. Okay. Yeah. So I, I was looking for something like is there a different flavor?
But when I saw that Inception and I was like, no, I don't really see that big difference other than Jonathan Nolan was in. Big involved in the, the, the trilogy. But yeah.
Seth
01:02:28.456 - 01:02:36.008
And Jonathan Nolan I think was involved in the story of Inception. But I think, yeah, the physical screenplay was. Was just strictly Nolan over like 10 years.
Kyle
01:02:36.144 - 01:02:45.928
Yeah, it's interesting. I guess I just, I mean you're the super Fan, and I love him, but I'm not the super fan. I just didn't realize.
Oh, he actually wrote a lot of them alone. I always. I thought he had always written more with his brother.
Seth
01:02:46.024 - 01:04:04.842
Yeah, it just kind of. Yeah, it depends, but.
So I think I'm actually going to have an interesting way of viewing this because I do think the reason this only cracks top five for me and doesn't hit top three or even best Nolan movie. I do think the weakest part of this movie is the screenplay itself. The. The.
The story and the plot, I think, are immaculate and incredible, I do think. And it somewhat lends itself to the spy genre.
There just isn't necessarily anything unique necessarily, about the dialogue and about the script itself itself. But because the story and. And the setting and the action is. Is so well done. This does just barely squeak over into an entropy for me.
Like, I do think, overall, yes, it's a positive thing, but I can get behind a lot of the criticisms with the screenplay itself. As much as I personally love the I ordered my hot sauce an hour ago line. It is one of the cheesiest things I've ever heard anyone say on camera.
It's so funny. But it's. It's also just like, okay, all right, whatever. Yeah, so, yeah, just barely.
Again, we've had a couple of these where it's like 5.1 out of 10 barely squeaks over. Yeah, but, yeah, it is. It is just a slight entropy for me.
Kyle
01:04:04.866 - 01:04:09.098
We should create a category for squeaky. Yeah, Squeaky entropy. What do you. What do you think?
Junior Robles
01:04:09.154 - 01:04:16.938
I'm trying to find a way to become a little bit more contrarian so far, because I feel like we've agreed on pretty much everything thus far, and I know that.
Seth
01:04:16.994 - 01:04:18.618
Just wait till we get to Big Lebowski.
Junior Robles
01:04:18.714 - 01:04:43.910
Here we go. But no but war. I know that, like, also, like. Like debating and sort of friendly disagreements are.
Are better maybe TV or listening material because, like, people can interact with it more. But honestly, I think.
I think the contrarian ness that I'm going for is actually what I'm about to say in response to how everybody else saw this movie. I thought the screenplay was incredible. Yeah, it was just great. And everybody all over it whenever it came.
Kyle
01:04:43.950 - 01:04:44.262
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:04:44.326 - 01:05:17.808
Like, and. And I think that one of the things that happens with a movie.
Movie is, like, you, like, it comes out when it comes out, people react to it the way they react to it, and then that just becomes the discourse for ever. How long it is. And that's the cool thing about podcasts and stuff like this is that we can kind of contribute to that. It has a little more time to.
To evolve over time. But, like, this is a really hard idea to come up with and if it doesn't always get executed perfectly.
Sorry, guys, but like, it's kind of like when Lost. You guys watch Lost.
Seth
01:05:17.864 - 01:05:19.856
I actually have not seen a single episode of Lost.
Junior Robles
01:05:19.928 - 01:05:22.880
So, like, the first two seasons are, I think, incredible tv.
Seth
01:05:22.960 - 01:05:23.616
Yeah, that's.
Junior Robles
01:05:23.728 - 01:05:42.414
The third season is kind of rough going and then the rest of it is like, really hard. So, like, like, and it has great moments, but, like, the thing about that show was, like, they were trying to do something that was impossible.
Basically, they were trying to tell three different timelines on network TV in early 2000s, when every season had to be 25 episodes. Episodes.
Seth
01:05:42.462 - 01:05:42.782
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:05:42.846 - 01:06:04.846
And like, it was just a really high bar. And I think this movie also is a really high bar to try to. To hit screenplay wise.
Like, you're trying to tell this really complex story and really not just tell the story, but also get to themes that are really important. And so, I don't know, like, if you're going to critique this, there's plenty of critiques to the screenplay, I think. But, like, overall, it's a.
It's a total entropy for me.
Kyle
01:06:04.918 - 01:06:05.694
Total entropy.
Junior Robles
01:06:05.742 - 01:06:08.384
Yeah. Like, it's. It's an incredible achievement movement.
Seth
01:06:08.432 - 01:06:08.848
Yeah.
Kyle
01:06:08.944 - 01:06:10.752
Well, leave it to me to be a true contrarian.
Junior Robles
01:06:10.816 - 01:06:12.300
Here we go. This.
Kyle
01:06:12.920 - 01:07:16.378
I love Nolan. I did go personally. Not that it matters. It's the majority rules here paradox. And the reason being is I. There's a lot of walking and talking going on.
And, you know, it's a spy movie. One of the things I do love about spy movie is that the. When I say cheeky, I don't mean it's always funny, but cheeky dialogue. Yeah.
Sometimes there's a slyness to it. The only problem I.
Like I said earlier, I do admire John David Washington's performance here, but they gave him a lot of things to say and there's a lot of walking and talking. There's a lot of moving and talking.
There's a lot of, like when he's got Priya or he's got a gun and they're, you know, and he's walking around pretty. Like they're always moving around. And it's. Because it feels like, well, if they don't. Like, we can't stand still. We got to keep.
I'm just like, I didn't ever get that moment where it's still and that kind of cheeky sly, mysterious dialogue that you come to love in a spy film. Yeah, I was missing some of that, because I did. I did feel like sometimes it's like, wow, there's a lot of moving around and talking going on.
It's like, we got to be talking. And I get it. I agree with you as a complex thing, and I do give him credit for delivering the message.
But I just was like, at some points, I was like, all right, let's shut the up.
Seth
01:07:16.434 - 01:07:42.452
Yeah, no, I can agree with that.
Which is why, for me, it's like, I have to look at the dialogue and the writing on top of the action, because the action is all physically written down. I have the screenplay right over there. I've read through the whole thing, and everything that happens in the movie is.
Is written down exactly as it happens. Like, yeah, he's planned everything out in such a meticulous way that it's like, I can't ignore that just because there's some cheesy dialogue in it.
Junior Robles
01:07:42.556 - 01:07:44.680
Yeah, Fuck you guys.
Kyle
01:07:45.660 - 01:07:49.200
I like how he was like, we should be contrary to the news. Like, fuck you.
Seth
01:07:50.860 - 01:07:52.468
But I still agreed with you. It's still.
Junior Robles
01:07:52.524 - 01:07:53.460
Oh, yeah, I guess so.
Seth
01:07:53.500 - 01:07:54.228
Still. Yeah.
Kyle
01:07:54.324 - 01:08:04.320
All right. Three to zero. Entropy. And I hope we do not run into our future selves here, trying so hard directing Mr. Christopher Nolan.
Seth
01:08:04.400 - 01:08:10.608
I mean, I think. I think we all know what I'm about to say. It's absolutely an entropy. Oh, my God. No one else could have done this.
Kyle
01:08:10.664 - 01:08:10.944
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:08:10.992 - 01:08:13.664
It's very unique, a very singular kind of voice that he has.
Seth
01:08:13.752 - 01:08:23.104
You hand this screenplay to any other director, and it would have just been a convoluted mess. Yeah, I don't care. You. You give it to David Fincher. You give it to Peter Jackson. You give it to Kid Tarantino.
Kyle
01:08:23.152 - 01:08:23.984
Joel Schumacher.
Seth
01:08:24.032 - 01:08:29.332
Joel Schumacher, absolutely. You give it to Kubrick. I don't think Kubrick could have done that as good.
Junior Robles
01:08:29.436 - 01:08:34.884
How would you. I don't know. Yeah, he did kind of steal that idea of some of these ideas from Time Cop, though.
Seth
01:08:34.972 - 01:08:35.268
Sure.
Kyle
01:08:35.324 - 01:08:36.600
Yeah. A little bit. Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:08:37.100 - 01:08:38.804
Wow. I like that you guys just agreed.
Seth
01:08:38.932 - 01:08:40.500
I've never seen Time Cop, so I don't know.
Kyle
01:08:40.540 - 01:08:41.460
I remember Time Cop.
Junior Robles
01:08:41.540 - 01:08:42.356
You remember Time Cop?
Kyle
01:08:42.388 - 01:08:46.660
Because I'm. I'm obsessed with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Is this the Von Dom or is this.
Junior Robles
01:08:46.700 - 01:08:47.764
It's fun. It's Van Damme.
Kyle
01:08:47.812 - 01:08:48.644
Sorry. Von Dom.
Junior Robles
01:08:48.732 - 01:08:49.412
Son of a.
Kyle
01:08:49.516 - 01:08:53.908
Sorry. He. He also had a Time movie. Arnold Dead.
Junior Robles
01:08:54.004 - 01:08:55.126
Well, yeah. Terminator.
Kyle
01:08:55.228 - 01:08:58.578
Yeah, but there was another one's a Time Cop type thing. But no, sorry. Von Dom.
Junior Robles
01:08:58.714 - 01:08:59.122
Yes.
Kyle
01:08:59.186 - 01:09:00.386
I'm obsessed with Von Dom.
Junior Robles
01:09:00.458 - 01:09:09.682
Dude. Yeah. That whole thing where like, I guess they. I think they use the word entropy. This would be a really good one for us to do at some point too.
It's probably on the list, right?
Kyle
01:09:09.706 - 01:09:10.034
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:09:10.082 - 01:09:10.354
Cop.
Kyle
01:09:10.402 - 01:09:12.946
Yeah. I didn't add it. Sorry.
Seth
01:09:13.058 - 01:09:13.650
We're about to.
Kyle
01:09:13.690 - 01:09:15.106
I do have a hard target.
Junior Robles
01:09:15.258 - 01:09:15.618
Really?
Kyle
01:09:15.674 - 01:09:20.600
A Von Dom? Yeah, bro. I do want him. I want him back. I want him back. In Popular.
Junior Robles
01:09:20.730 - 01:09:21.756
We. We need more vendor.
Seth
01:09:21.788 - 01:09:23.004
But like the Expendables tried.
Junior Robles
01:09:23.052 - 01:09:36.908
But if you haven't. If you haven't seen Time Cop, like one of the. The rules of that movie, it does have to do with time travel too.
And if you do encounter your future self, there is a singularity that happens. I think they use the word entropy there. I don't. I'm not a quantum physics person, but I don't know. But like.
Kyle
01:09:37.044 - 01:09:37.356
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:09:37.388 - 01:09:41.132
So. So that it's, it's. It's not uncharted territory.
Seth
01:09:41.196 - 01:09:41.564
Sure.
Junior Robles
01:09:41.652 - 01:09:46.917
That no one goes into. But yeah, I mean like, as far as his directing, I mean it's. It's awesome at this.
Kyle
01:09:47.053 - 01:09:47.365
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:09:47.397 - 01:09:48.405
He doesn't suck at this.
Seth
01:09:48.477 - 01:09:53.925
No. There's a reason. People just give him a blank check and tell him to go for it.
Kyle
01:09:54.077 - 01:09:59.317
Yeah. This is an easy one for me too. I mean. And there's a reason why his worst movie is considered a 69.
Seth
01:09:59.373 - 01:09:59.653
Yeah.
Kyle
01:09:59.701 - 01:10:34.864
Still better than, you know, it's. He continues to be an autour. And one thing I will say as a director, even though I think this is not one of his best and it's. It's got flaws.
He is also a guy that continues to try and pushes the boundaries. And he's doing it on with film. He's doing it with limited, Limited, like camera work. He keeps it the way he does it. He's continually like, he.
He actually puts himself at risk without using multiple cameras. He does. He's okay with that. And you are going to see dings and flaws in a movie where a guy is taking big risk.
Seth
01:10:34.952 - 01:10:35.312
Yeah.
Kyle
01:10:35.376 - 01:10:41.672
And it far outweighs. I mean the, like the, it's. The. The flaws are. Don't even really matter in the long skin, you know?
Seth
01:10:41.696 - 01:10:41.944
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:10:41.992 - 01:11:17.394
You know, one thing I guess maybe I would say about it though is every time he. There would be a cut, maybe this is more about editing, but.
But every time there was a cut, I always wondered if, like, what was going to happen if we came back. If and when we came back to that. And I think Inception trained me to think about like the revisiting of a scene.
And I don't know if it's, I don't know if this is a critique even, but like, I, I, it did kind of pull me out sometimes, like, where there would be a cut where like sometimes the door would be closing and it didn't close, you know, or something like that. And I would kind of wonder, okay, how's this going to resolve at some. Or what, what bit of information is being withheld?
Seth
01:11:17.442 - 01:11:17.666
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:11:17.698 - 01:11:23.682
And I felt like sometimes that happened and sometimes it was just, I was just like overthinking it. So, like, I don't know.
Seth
01:11:23.706 - 01:11:26.274
That is the thing about Nolan, though, is, is, is it keeps you guessing.
Junior Robles
01:11:26.322 - 01:11:26.546
Yeah.
Seth
01:11:26.578 - 01:11:50.140
Keeps you on your toes. You did same with Kubrick.
Like, people, the theories I have seen on what the open stroller versus the folded up stroller in Eyes Wide Shut is supposed to mean. Like, people, like, it's on, it's on screen. Clearly it had to be purposeful.
And I'm like, it's possible that they shot those scenes a week apart and some set person just folded up the.
Kyle
01:11:50.180 - 01:11:52.604
Stroller this time the chair that disappears in the shining.
Seth
01:11:52.652 - 01:11:52.876
Yeah.
Kyle
01:11:52.908 - 01:11:53.468
In the room.
Seth
01:11:53.524 - 01:11:54.012
Exactly.
Kyle
01:11:54.076 - 01:11:56.508
Like one minute is there and then like in the next cut, it's not there.
Seth
01:11:56.564 - 01:11:56.748
Yeah.
Kyle
01:11:56.764 - 01:11:57.978
And it's the same conversation.
Seth
01:11:58.084 - 01:12:01.806
Could have been put there on purpose, but also the curtains could just be blue.
Kyle
01:12:01.918 - 01:12:02.206
Yeah.
Seth
01:12:02.238 - 01:12:04.334
Like, it could have just been the thing that happened.
Kyle
01:12:04.382 - 01:12:04.702
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:12:04.766 - 01:12:06.542
Sometimes the cigar is just a cigar.
Seth
01:12:06.606 - 01:12:07.054
Exactly.
Kyle
01:12:07.102 - 01:12:09.710
Yeah. Sometimes Reddit is. You got to get off Reddit.
Junior Robles
01:12:09.790 - 01:12:10.830
Just get the off.
Seth
01:12:10.950 - 01:12:13.582
Go, go touch some grass. Go.
Kyle
01:12:13.606 - 01:12:20.958
Look at this guy. Four to zero. Here we are cleaning up with Von Dom and Schwarzenegger being swapped.
Seth
01:12:20.974 - 01:12:25.672
Here we are going to get ripped apart on Reddit for this thing. Getting, getting a good score from us.
Kyle
01:12:25.776 - 01:12:31.224
Yeah. If we are, I don't know about it because I try to stay off there. Although I did meet the author of that book on Reddit.
Seth
01:12:31.272 - 01:12:31.688
Oh, nice.
Kyle
01:12:31.704 - 01:12:35.272
Of that Kubrick book I'm interviewing. That's incredible. So Reddit has served a purpose.
Seth
01:12:35.336 - 01:12:35.784
Hell, yeah.
Junior Robles
01:12:35.832 - 01:12:37.208
Love Reddit. Not really.
Kyle
01:12:37.344 - 01:12:52.170
Yeah, read it, been there, seen it, done it. Okay. Last regular category then. We got our bro categories coming up. Although we are. We have surpassed the, surpassed the threshold of a loss here.
What's in front of us? Cinematography, production design, sound and costumes.
Seth
01:12:52.240 - 01:12:54.038
Yeah. And editing, I think can also be.
Kyle
01:12:54.174 - 01:12:54.758
I'm actually.
Seth
01:12:54.814 - 01:14:01.026
Yeah, you should throw that in there again. 280 visual effects shots, no one fucking does that. There's no blue screen or green screen.
Everything that you see in front of you is actually happened in some way or another. Most of the visual effects shots were like erasing strings from when they were doing the bungee jump up the building, like that kind of stuff.
It was very simple stuff. Anything that needed to be exposed, expand, expanded upon. Sure. I'm sure some of the explosions were visual effect shots, but it was nothing.
He wasn't fixing anything in post. He wasn't creating entire scenes in animation. It was all already there. And yeah, I just, I can't.
I can't find a single flaw in the visuals whatsoever. Sure. People hated the sound design.
Again, for me, watching it twice in the same IMAX theater, I had absolutely no problem with hearing the dialogue that needed to be heard. Even when I read through the screenplay, I was like, oh, yeah, this is a part people probably had a problem with.
But you don't even really need to hear what's being said here because there's a bunch of other shit happening. People are just reacting how they would react in real life. So, yeah, it's 100% entropy for me.
Junior Robles
01:14:01.178 - 01:14:23.152
Yeah. No notes. Really? Well, let's see. Let me think.
Well, we did say that thing about editing and I did kind of feel like, you know, in the process of watching it sometimes some of the shots felt a little snipped a little too early for me. And it was disorienting. Maybe that was the. I'm sure that was the intended effect.
Seth
01:14:23.256 - 01:14:23.728
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:14:23.824 - 01:14:24.464
For it to be.
Seth
01:14:24.552 - 01:14:26.260
Maybe it's because you watched on your phone.
Junior Robles
01:14:26.840 - 01:14:27.808
I was telling.
Kyle
01:14:27.904 - 01:14:29.616
I was telling Seth God intended it.
Junior Robles
01:14:29.688 - 01:14:41.040
I texted him earlier. Yeah, I watched it just as Nolan intended it on. On my phone in 30 second, 30 minute intervals. Yeah, I was busy with all kinds of stuff.
Yeah, I did watch the last 45 minutes. Minutes on a TV though.
Seth
01:14:41.080 - 01:14:42.060
Oh, there you go.
Junior Robles
01:14:42.760 - 01:14:54.000
But no, I mean, yeah, I think technically everything looked great. What am I going to say about the wardrobe, man? I mean, like, they, they looked. I like, I did like that note with. Who was it? Where?
Seth
01:14:54.120 - 01:14:56.192
Oh, with Michael Caine. Where he's like Brooks Brothers.
Junior Robles
01:14:56.336 - 01:14:59.248
Brooks Brothers, bro. You gotta. We gotta get some better suits, bro.
Seth
01:14:59.304 - 01:15:18.064
Love it. So that is something I have always loved about anytime Nolan does a movie and set in the modern era, the fashion is impeccable.
And if you watch him on set, he's literally in like a full suit and then usually has like a polo or a button up on. Yeah, like, dude just. Just exudes fashion.
Junior Robles
01:15:18.112 - 01:15:19.792
Yeah, it's like an NBA coach in the 90s.
Kyle
01:15:19.856 - 01:15:23.344
Yeah. My favorite was Levitt and Inception.
Seth
01:15:23.392 - 01:15:23.664
Yeah.
Kyle
01:15:23.712 - 01:15:24.496
His wardrobe.
Junior Robles
01:15:24.608 - 01:15:25.584
Oh, yeah, dude.
Seth
01:15:25.632 - 01:15:28.448
I mean, everyone in that movie was just so well put together.
Junior Robles
01:15:28.504 - 01:15:30.048
Watanabe was also really good.
Kyle
01:15:30.104 - 01:15:31.952
So you're going entropy. Yes, beautiful.
Junior Robles
01:15:32.016 - 01:15:32.336
Me.
Kyle
01:15:32.408 - 01:15:40.800
Yeah, me too. And it's just. This is just standard Nolan here. I mean, this guy doesn't. Doesn't lower the standards ever. He doesn't. He's unwavering.
Seth
01:15:40.880 - 01:15:41.808
He doesn't mess around.
Kyle
01:15:41.864 - 01:15:58.176
Yeah. He has expectations and he makes it as hard as possible with how he does it because he wants that end product to be perfect.
And that way he does have you. I think you pointed this out, but Kubrick, that is where they kind of share. It's like they are relentless.
And you can question the standard if you want, but they are relentless and upholding a very certain standard.
Seth
01:15:58.208 - 01:15:58.848
Yeah.
Kyle
01:15:59.024 - 01:16:23.462
And that in the modern era of let's, let's make background movies on Netflix and, you know, you know, just all the garbage, the remakes, the reboot, someone that's upholding the. The standard is what we need. And he does it here again. So I can't really say much more than. I just. I love everything I saw. Five to zero.
We're winning. But we got two fun categories here. This one is called Nolanism.
Seth
01:16:23.656 - 01:16:24.282
Okay.
Kyle
01:16:24.346 - 01:16:25.130
Nolanism.
Seth
01:16:25.210 - 01:16:25.562
Okay.
Kyle
01:16:25.626 - 01:16:46.522
And this is what we have been talking about. We've referenced it a few times, but this is his lowest rated movie. Yeah, but take 2020 out.
Take the pandemic and the correcting of sound issues, all that. And let's just say this comes out today and, you know, does it take taking a fresh look at it? Does this belong in that top five? That is the question.
Seth
01:16:46.626 - 01:17:03.954
I mean, it is for me, like, it absolutely is in the top five. For me. It.
Again, there's just so much that he could have done with visual effects and he, he just makes that decision to just know, I'm gonna do it in camera until I can't anymore.
Junior Robles
01:17:04.002 - 01:17:25.718
Yeah, I, I think time is going to be really friendly to this movie.
Like, the, the more people come to it after digging into sort of, sort of the, you know, upper echelon, well known Nolan films, and they're like, oh, man, I want to explore this filmmaker more.
I mean, like 10 years from now, like, you know, kids in high school and college, like, trying to figure out, God, who, who do I want to model my cinematic voice after.
Seth
01:17:25.774 - 01:17:26.006
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:17:26.038 - 01:17:27.030
They're gonna see this.
Kyle
01:17:27.070 - 01:17:27.334
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:17:27.382 - 01:17:29.062
And be like, oh, wow, that this is an achievement.
Seth
01:17:29.126 - 01:17:46.842
Well, it's already happened with Interstellar because Interstellar was rated at 73 on Rotten Tomatoes, which is the dumbest thing I have ever seen in my life. To me, that is his greatest movie. And I. I hope the Odyssey can exceed that for me, because I have very.
He's doing an adaptation of Odyssey, like Homer's Odyssey.
Kyle
01:17:46.906 - 01:17:47.338
Yeah, that's.
Seth
01:17:47.354 - 01:17:58.042
His next project is the Odyssey with Matt Damon, Tom Holland, Zendaya, Robert Pattinson, Charlize Theron, Lupita Nuongo, Anne Hathaway.
Kyle
01:17:58.106 - 01:17:58.330
Who.
Junior Robles
01:17:58.370 - 01:17:58.842
Who are these people?
Seth
01:17:58.866 - 01:18:00.266
Lupita Nuongo. Who?
Junior Robles
01:18:00.418 - 01:18:02.150
I'm just kidding. Like, these are like.
Seth
01:18:05.250 - 01:18:39.136
Yeah, but, like, I have high hopes for the Odyssey. I always, no matter what it is, Nolan, I try to keep my expectations reigned in just because I want to see what he wants me to see.
I don't want to see what I want to see. But as I was saying with.
With Interstellar, it wasn't very highly rated when it came out, and 10 years later, everyone considers it to be his greatest film. And so I think Tenet is probably going to go through something similar.
When I saw it in the rerelease earlier this year in imax, everyone came out of that theater just going, this was insane. I wish I had seen it for the first time in imax.
Junior Robles
01:18:39.168 - 01:19:17.648
I think that happens with a lot of really great movies that are really high concept and with ideas that are really hard to wrap your mind around. Because a lot of times people. People want to go to the movies and just have some fun and, like, watch some stuff blow up. And I think that's great.
Like, I believe that people should go to the movies to just be entertained. Right, Right. But I also think that there's that stuff like this. If.
If that's what you're going in for and you kind of get thrown for a loop on that, then maybe that is part of that reaction. And so.
But I think if people want to think about what a movie means and how important it is to the art of it and everything like that, I think over time, people are going to love this movie more and more.
Seth
01:19:17.704 - 01:19:19.504
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So entropy.
Kyle
01:19:19.632 - 01:19:29.696
So what do you think? Okay. And just to add a little clarity for the listeners, We've seen this PDF, but here's the order.
So Dark Knight 94, we're using rotten Tomatoes, even though it's a biased, garbage piece of.
Seth
01:19:29.768 - 01:19:34.396
Well, it just. Rotten Tomatoes is the conglomeration of all of the critical recovery reviews.
Kyle
01:19:34.428 - 01:19:34.924
Yeah.
Seth
01:19:35.052 - 01:19:40.172
So it's. It's just, if. If 94 of them said it was good, then that's what the percentage is gonna be.
Kyle
01:19:40.196 - 01:19:46.284
Yeah. But then recent years, they've definitely taken what. What I love is that now they're, like, going back and reviewing old movies.
Seth
01:19:46.332 - 01:19:46.556
Yeah.
Kyle
01:19:46.588 - 01:19:47.500
And re. Rating them.
Seth
01:19:47.540 - 01:19:47.948
Yeah.
Kyle
01:19:48.044 - 01:19:52.508
Based on today's standards. And so they're like, giving, like, really? Some of my favorite movies. Dog.
Seth
01:19:52.604 - 01:19:53.324
Reviews.
Kyle
01:19:53.452 - 01:19:58.700
Like, oh, well, this didn't have. It's like, shut up. That didn't exist when they made that movie.
Junior Robles
01:19:58.780 - 01:20:00.716
So Bloodsport is. Is not a 95.
Kyle
01:20:00.788 - 01:20:05.120
No longer a 95 helmet. I know, I know. That was Arnold too, right? I'm just kidding.
Seth
01:20:06.100 - 01:20:06.780
I know.
Kyle
01:20:06.900 - 01:20:43.132
Yeah, I know. That was Mickey Rour. No, I love. I love L wor. Here's the order. 94% for the Dark Knight. 94% momento. 93% Oppenheimer, Dunkirk. 92%.
And to round out the top five is 92% for Insomnia, the Dark Knight Rises, 87%. 87% for Inception, which freaking boggles my mind. 85 for the Batman Begins. Boggles my mind the other way. 80. 84. 84 following.
77 for the Prestige, Interstellar. 73 second last.
Seth
01:20:43.236 - 01:20:43.612
Yeah.
Kyle
01:20:43.676 - 01:21:00.076
Unbelievable. And then rounding it out, all of his movies, the. The bottom of the barrel here. 69 for tenant. Bottom.
The absolute bottom of this list, which is still extremely high. Yeah, I. I don't. I don't agree with most of this list.
Seth
01:21:00.148 - 01:21:11.836
I think Dark Knight is his most overrated movie. Yeah, it just. It's not bad, but it's just. It's. It's nowhere near as good. If.
If Heath Ledger hadn't died, I don't think it would have been as praised as it was.
Kyle
01:21:11.988 - 01:21:14.700
And I think Memento gets a lot of nostalgia.
Seth
01:21:14.860 - 01:21:35.298
I mean, it. It genuinely changed the way people looked at editing back in the day.
Like, the fact that it was going back and forth, one all in color was technically going in reverse steps, and then the black and white was going forward. When. When I first saw that movie, I watched it probably four times. And then I found the chronological version on YouTube and I watched it that way.
Kyle
01:21:35.354 - 01:21:36.050
Oh, really?
Seth
01:21:36.170 - 01:21:37.186
A totally different.
Kyle
01:21:37.258 - 01:21:37.938
I haven't done that.
Seth
01:21:37.994 - 01:21:44.870
Oh, yeah. So the. He did change a lot when that came out. As far as how he did the editing.
Kyle
01:21:45.530 - 01:21:50.706
Yeah. I would take Dunkirk off the top five. I would take.
Seth
01:21:50.858 - 01:21:51.730
I would agree with that.
Kyle
01:21:51.770 - 01:21:58.472
I would put the Dark Knight at number five, and I would replace Dunkirk with Tenet.
Seth
01:21:58.536 - 01:21:58.920
Yeah.
Kyle
01:21:59.000 - 01:22:16.824
I would keep Oppenheimer right where it is, and I would put Interstellar at number one as well. Yeah, I totally agree about Interstellar.
So I'm not going to sit here and just try to recalculate this whole list, but I'm just talking about Why I am. Yes. Entropy. I put in the top five, and Dunkirk, for me, is the easiest one to take off the list, personally.
Seth
01:22:16.872 - 01:22:21.742
Again, not bad. It's a very visually striking war movie, but it is also just a straight war movie.
Kyle
01:22:21.806 - 01:22:33.070
Yeah. I would keep Memento somewhere. I don't know where, but I would keep it in there for the innovation that it has. But I.
I definitely agree interstellar1 and actually put. I put dark knight down to 5, and I won Insomnia on that list.
Seth
01:22:33.110 - 01:22:33.422
Yeah.
Kyle
01:22:33.486 - 01:22:38.110
So it's tempting to take Oppenheimer off there, but I can't let my personal bias towards it.
Seth
01:22:38.150 - 01:22:38.414
Yeah.
Kyle
01:22:38.462 - 01:22:44.366
Take away from the fact that Oppenheimer's freaking brilliant. But I loved Insomnia. That was my first Nolan film ever that I watched.
Seth
01:22:44.398 - 01:22:44.942
Oh, nice.
Junior Robles
01:22:45.006 - 01:22:51.636
I need to revisit it because I watched it back in the day and it didn't really do it for me. I didn't finish it. So I need to check.
Seth
01:22:51.668 - 01:22:57.860
That's fair. I mean, it is a direct remake of a Swedish film that Stan Skarsgrd was.
Junior Robles
01:22:57.980 - 01:23:01.844
That was another character. That was another thing about it, too, was it was a remake and it felt kind of weird.
Kyle
01:23:01.892 - 01:23:03.012
It was called Epilepsy.
Junior Robles
01:23:03.076 - 01:23:03.396
Okay.
Kyle
01:23:03.428 - 01:23:04.120
Okay.
Junior Robles
01:23:04.940 - 01:23:07.332
You had me kind of got me on that one.
Kyle
01:23:07.436 - 01:23:08.800
I do that on the show.
Seth
01:23:09.100 - 01:23:19.560
I will say I did watch a comparison of the scene where Al Pacino kills his partner by accident, comparing with the stale and Skarsgard version. It is a shot for shot.
Kyle
01:23:19.640 - 01:23:19.992
Wow.
Seth
01:23:20.056 - 01:23:31.496
Creation of it. Like, he. That was. The level of detail he went into was like, nope, this is perfect. I'm just going to do it the same way that I love it.
I love that Robin Williams killed it as the villain. Oh, my God. That's probably his best role.
Kyle
01:23:31.568 - 01:23:45.230
It is. And. And also, if. If you are one of those people and there is a large crowd of people that don't think he can write. He doesn't write.
Well, for big actors, that's a big. I think it's Pacino's top five. It's Pacino top five, easy. And Robin Williams, his best role.
Seth
01:23:45.270 - 01:23:45.662
Yeah.
Kyle
01:23:45.726 - 01:23:47.742
Truly hands down, freaked me out.
Seth
01:23:47.766 - 01:23:48.158
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:23:48.254 - 01:23:49.086
Check it out.
Kyle
01:23:49.238 - 01:24:07.766
All right. We gotta round this thing out. 6 to 0. I wonder if this thing is beloved in the movie wars crew. I call this one Dazed and Confused. We get it.
But audiences didn't. And also, I will speak on behalf of audiences here. Usually I'm. I'm a little harsh on the IQ of those who challenge movies I like because I'm a dick.
Seth
01:24:07.838 - 01:24:08.518
Yeah.
Kyle
01:24:08.694 - 01:24:10.102
And I'm pretentious.
Seth
01:24:10.246 - 01:24:11.494
This has been established.
Kyle
01:24:11.622 - 01:24:52.448
Yes, this has. This has. But at the time, one of the things was people, they didn't know what it was. They knew they liked Nolan, but they didn't know what it was.
And. But they also weren't in the mood to be challenged.
A lot of people, if you were going to theater, it was actually for escapism, and usually I would criticize that, but during the pandemic, I wanted to escape in other ways myself. I wanted to escape the planet. Yeah, so. So I get it. So that being said, the timing it came out, do you. Do you think it was presented in a way?
I'm not just talking to movie itself, but the marketing and then talk about the movie and then think about the time it was released. Do you think it was warranted the confusion that. That some moviegoers had about what this movie is?
Seth
01:24:52.584 - 01:25:25.676
I understand where a lot of people were coming from, but again, I think.
And having been following the subreddits on all of his movies now for the last year or so, people, for whatever reason, are obsessed with, well, what is he gonna do? What do you think he's gonna do with this thing? And.
And they'll pull out the most random, stupid things that they see in like a trailer or, or in some little thing that one of the actors said, and they'll be like, oh, what if it's this whole freaking thing? And I'm like, stop.
Kyle
01:25:25.748 - 01:25:26.988
That's why you gotta get off Reddit, bro.
Seth
01:25:27.044 - 01:26:04.798
Yeah. I mean, yeah, if. If I had a different work situation, I would. That's the problem with people is. Is. Yes, it's fun to speculate.
Yes, it's fun to have theories, but you're going to ruin the movie for yourself.
If you go into it with presupposition, if you go into it with a vision of what you want to see versus accepting that this is someone else's artistic interpretation of whatever it is they're putting on screen, you're gonna be disappointed. So. No, I understand where the confusion came from, but I. I also know that.
That Nolan stands tend to put themselves way too much in what they think is going to happen.
Junior Robles
01:26:04.854 - 01:26:13.662
Yeah, I think, I think my. So there was some aversion when it came out because a lot of movies were just going to streaming. Yeah. That were supposed to be released in.
Seth
01:26:13.686 - 01:26:16.286
Theaters, and this was. The Warner Brothers tried to put this.
Kyle
01:26:16.358 - 01:26:17.726
They wanted to. Yeah, they wanted to.
Junior Robles
01:26:17.798 - 01:26:18.830
Nolan didn't want to. Right.
Seth
01:26:18.870 - 01:26:29.182
Oh, yeah, Yeah. I. I personally think he should have waited a year. I think he should have said no, we're just gonna. It's done. It's ready to go.
I'm gonna start working on the next one, but we're just gonna put it out in 2021 one instead.
Junior Robles
01:26:29.246 - 01:26:37.790
Like, I kind of remember feeling like, I would love to go see this movie, but I don't really feel safe right now, just, like, going to the theater, like. And I had family reasons for that. And so.
Kyle
01:26:37.830 - 01:26:38.030
Right.
Seth
01:26:38.070 - 01:26:50.638
And I. I looked at the seating chart and found out there were six other people there. And I was like, it. I'm going.
And we're all sitting, like, 20ft away from each other. Like, the closest I was was my friend who went with me, and even we had a seat between us.
Junior Robles
01:26:50.694 - 01:27:07.386
Yeah. And so, like, for me, it was like, man, why is he trying to make everybody go to the theater right now? That was.
That was the one thing for me about this movie. That's why I didn't actually end up watching it until today. I was. It just kind of fell by the wayside for me.
But when it came out, I was like, well, I don't want to go to the theater. I don't feel.
Seth
01:27:07.458 - 01:27:10.938
And I think that was totally valid at the time. That's why I think he should have waited a year.
Kyle
01:27:10.994 - 01:27:11.274
Yeah.
Seth
01:27:11.322 - 01:27:15.386
Because then I think people would have been fine and would have gone and saw it and. And would have had a better reaction.
Kyle
01:27:15.418 - 01:27:17.306
Warner Brothers wanted to delay it, but.
Junior Robles
01:27:17.378 - 01:27:25.692
When I saw it today, though, I. I totally kind of get it now, why he wanted people. People to go. It's like, well, this is the way you really need to see the movie, man.
Seth
01:27:25.796 - 01:27:30.716
When you see it in the IMAX theater here at Opry Mills, it is just a totally different experience.
Junior Robles
01:27:30.788 - 01:27:33.484
I was laying in bed, watching it on my phone, just like, oh, that's cool.
Seth
01:27:33.532 - 01:27:33.948
Yeah.
Kyle
01:27:34.044 - 01:27:36.332
Yeah. I wonder what that looks like. 50ft tall.
Seth
01:27:36.396 - 01:27:39.164
Yeah. Literally, though, so.
Junior Robles
01:27:39.252 - 01:27:46.268
So, yeah, I guess. You know, pros and cons, I guess. But, yeah. But, yeah, I get the reaction to it at the. At the time, because that was part of my reaction to it too.
Seth
01:27:46.324 - 01:27:46.604
Yeah.
Kyle
01:27:46.652 - 01:28:13.098
Yeah. Yeah. I. This is funny. I'm the only one that went categories that were that paradox. I did actually go paradox on this. I do. Because I'm the same. I, I.
It's not necessarily that I didn't go well. I, I guess none of us could do anything for a while during the pandemic, but I. I just didn't think going to theater was really an option.
I was surprised that we could. Like, I was like, oh, I would have definitely gone to Some movies like done what you did with the seating charts.
But I was like, I just didn't even think about it during the out of time.
Seth
01:28:13.154 - 01:28:13.434
Yeah.
Kyle
01:28:13.482 - 01:28:22.394
Because well, I also had kids. But fair. You know, I just, I. I wish I could have seen an imax and I'm sure they'll do another one. Another imax. Yeah.
Seth
01:28:22.522 - 01:28:25.114
Yeah. They'll probably re release it in a few years like they did this year.
Kyle
01:28:25.202 - 01:28:39.068
I do think this movie could have. It could have gotten more love.
Especially because a lot of the movies that were made and released during COVID there are things in those movies that remind you. Oh yeah, this feels like a movie because there's just little things like the Batman.
Seth
01:28:39.154 - 01:28:39.560
Yeah.
Kyle
01:28:39.640 - 01:28:46.072
There are things in that movie that are so like unnecessary and little mistakes in that movie. Like that probably wouldn't have happened in a non Covid.
Seth
01:28:46.176 - 01:28:46.600
Yeah.
Kyle
01:28:46.680 - 01:28:50.680
Film production period. But this one doesn't have any of that.
Seth
01:28:50.720 - 01:28:51.300
No.
Kyle
01:28:51.840 - 01:29:20.638
And plus it was shot just before the majority of it was done. Yes.
I mean, but I, I would have loved to seen this get a wider audience when it was released and seen the way it was because now people are watching it on their phones. You're not the only one. A lot of people. I'm a father. I mean I have to.
I watch all the special features on my phone like 20 minutes before I go to bed. You know, that's, that's, that's what I have to do to get my research in. So. Yeah, I, I actually did go.
Not that it matters, but I did go paradox on this one for that reason. I wish it would have been given to the right audience at the right time.
Seth
01:29:20.694 - 01:29:21.022
Yeah.
Kyle
01:29:21.086 - 01:29:22.926
Because it got, it got overlooked for that reason.
Junior Robles
01:29:22.998 - 01:29:24.542
I would agree with that actually. Yeah.
Kyle
01:29:24.606 - 01:29:24.942
Yeah.
Junior Robles
01:29:25.006 - 01:29:27.022
Can mark me down as a paradox on this one.
Seth
01:29:27.126 - 01:29:27.890
Whoa.
Kyle
01:29:28.550 - 01:29:29.438
Holy.
Seth
01:29:29.614 - 01:29:34.232
I mean, no, I think we all agree there. Like it should have been. We. It should have waited here because it.
Kyle
01:29:34.256 - 01:29:38.920
Deserves, it deserves more accolades. There's no reason this. For this to be at the bottom of his list. So.
Junior Robles
01:29:38.960 - 01:29:39.464
Yeah.
Kyle
01:29:39.592 - 01:29:40.136
Wow.
Seth
01:29:40.248 - 01:29:44.808
There we go, everyone. We did not give it a perfect score, so don't come at us on Reddit.
Kyle
01:29:44.904 - 01:30:00.740
It was that close and it is 6 to 1. I would love actually to hear from you all. And you're not. Not that you are shy typically the Deftones. Yeah, the Deftones, the Shining, the But.
Seth
01:30:01.440 - 01:30:04.504
Oh, and they Shining comma V. And then they.
Kyle
01:30:04.592 - 01:30:17.208
By the way, if you're one of those people that criticize my clip about toxic using they. When talking about. Because you think I was being anti feminist by not saying Mary Harrim's name first. Listen to the episode.
We say Mary Heron's name probably 54 times.
Seth
01:30:17.264 - 01:30:17.736
At least.
Kyle
01:30:17.808 - 01:30:23.480
At least. And they is two women. It's Guinevere Turner and Mary Heron.
Seth
01:30:23.560 - 01:30:25.224
Two females stuck on them titties.
Kyle
01:30:25.272 - 01:30:45.970
You are. You are the sexist for. For not knowing there was two females involved. Anyway, you. Yeah, I love you guys.
On that note, I do want to hear because this is such a. When I say controversial, it's controversial in that this. The.
The pretext around the release of this film, the reception and then kind of that five year, ten year later.
Junior Robles
01:30:46.010 - 01:30:46.226
Whoa.
Kyle
01:30:46.258 - 01:30:57.082
What did. What was this movie? Actually, I want to hear your thoughts. But anyway, you were awesome. Loved having you on the show. We should do another one.
And we are going to in five minutes. Oh, that's how the sausage is made. But love y'all. I'm Kyle.
Seth
01:30:57.146 - 01:30:57.674
I'm Seth.
Junior Robles
01:30:57.722 - 01:30:58.250
I'm JR.