Interview with “Drive” Editor Mat Newman
Host
00:00:00.160 - 00:00:24.340
Foreign. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast. So excited to kick off a new year of interviews for the movies that we cover.
And I'm so honored to have our guest today, Matt Newman. How you doing?
Matt Newman
00:00:24.720 - 00:00:27.602
Very well, thank you. Nice to meet you.
Host
00:00:27.706 - 00:01:13.450
Yeah. So glad to have you here. And just I want you to go into your career, but, you know, we covered Drive and.
And I wanted to talk to some folks that were involved, and I was really just honored that you joined the show. And just so the audience knows, you know, Matt's. He's partnered with Nicholas Winding Refn on a lot of the. The films that you may know.
But two of those specifically are in my top 50 films of all time. Bronson and Drive, but also Valhalla Rising, Neon Demon, Only God Forgives. And, you know, I was just.
Just enamored by just the process on these films that gives them a very unique visual presentation, but also the cadences of the editing. And so it's really cool to have you here, talk about that stuff today.
But before we get into Drive and some other things, you want to talk about kind of where you started in your career and how you got to where you are today.
Matt Newman
00:01:14.870 - 00:01:26.826
Well, the short story is I kind of got here at the beginning by blagging it. So I was never a. I don't know if you Americans use that word to blag, what that is.
Host
00:01:26.898 - 00:01:30.810
I'd like to. I'd like to. Does that mean, like, you were kind of bluffing?
Matt Newman
00:01:30.890 - 00:01:32.874
Bluffing? Make it till you make it.
Host
00:01:32.962 - 00:01:33.546
Okay.
Matt Newman
00:01:33.658 - 00:03:00.862
So I didn't go to film school. I didn't have anyone in the family that's in the business.
I just sort of started, like, a lot of people in answering telephones for people in a production office and, you know, changing toilet rolls and getting screamed at by people that were a lot busier than I was. And I learned. I always loved editing and I learned.
Or the idea of it, and I learned it at the time by sort of breaking into the avid that one of the producers had that I was working for. And I just sort of taught it myself. In the evenings, they had. They had a film in there. And this is back when this stuff cost a fortune.
Now you just download it. But then you needed a lot of money to have the hardware and all those things. So I kind of taught myself in the evenings.
I used the instruction manuals. And then I kind of just started telling people I was an editor. So I never did the path where you like in America. It's very regimented.
Also in England, there's a. You know, you have an apprenticeship and you're an assistant or a. And then a first. Second assistant and a first assistant.
And then maybe eventually someone says, do you want to cut scene? I was just like, no, I'm an editor and just try to get jobs. And yeah, I mean, there were some disasters along the way, but it worked out in the end.
But, yeah, that's the short version that.
Host
00:03:00.886 - 00:03:24.984
Makes it all the more incredible, you know, because I.
Like I said my email to you have such a distinct, you know, some of the pairings that we've talked about with, you know, Tarantino and Miller, these folks that have really intense relationships with their editors or frequent collaborators. I would say that you've established a pretty unique signature style for. For having, you know, no upbringing in the. In the system. And that's.
That makes it even more incredible. That's pretty cool.
Matt Newman
00:03:25.112 - 00:04:33.150
Yeah. I mean, it's fortuitous because Nick was the first director I ever worked with. I never made a film until I met him. So it's.
Until then, what I had done is I had friends who were producers and I would recut things for people. So if they had a problem or a show was just a bit messy called me, and I would do a week and straighten it out for them. But you kind of.
It's a bit anonymous. You don't really bring anything creative. It's more just making things smoother and fixing things.
But those people liked what I'd done, and then they hired Nick to do a TV show and his editor couldn't travel, and so they just plugged me in. So he was literally the first director I ever like, was just like, hi, what's your favorite movie?
And he'd already made like four or five films by then. So, you know, while I was in a production office somewhere, like, changing toilet rolls for the producer, he'd actually made a film. So he was like.
He got started very young. I think his first film, he was 24, 25, and it was a success. So you can imagine, you know, how awful he was because he got everything very fast.
Host
00:04:33.490 - 00:04:37.960
Was this after Pusher, the Pusher trilogy and Fear X? Was that the timing of this?
Matt Newman
00:04:38.090 - 00:05:16.514
Yeah, I met him on. We still laugh about it. He was, like, on a big downslope. He was completely bust.
He was in debt for millions because he lost his own money on Fex and he was just looking for a job.
And it just so happened that the guy who gave him a job, which was a British television producer called Matthew Reed, who's An old friend of mine was my friend. So he said, oh, if you need an editor, does this.
There's this guy who's, I promise you, is actually an editor, even though I couldn't show him anything. So, yeah, he was just like. He's just like, fine. You know, let's see if, if you're no good, we'll just get someone else.
Host
00:05:16.642 - 00:05:39.202
And fast forward to today. I mean, wow.
I mean that's, that's just wild considering, you know, the films that you've been making since and the notoriety that happened around Drive. I know that was also a little bit of a surprise, not just for your team, but the, the financiers who wanted to take their name off the film.
And then once it was a success, they were like, can we add our name back to the film? I mean, what a. What a trip. Right?
Matt Newman
00:05:39.306 - 00:06:27.738
Yeah, we went back into the DI for that. Oh, but it's like I had to earn it. At the beginning. He was, it was one and done. He was like, you know, thank you very much.
And he went back to Denmark because he had an editor there, like a really lovely lady who's also, you know, a big editor in Denmark. And she, she, when he did Bronson, she couldn't travel. She had small kids at the time.
And he was shooting it in London for, I think he had £700,000 is like no money and a four week schedule. And the producers were like, if you fly yourself. I was living in Berlin.
If you fly yourself into to London, so you pay your own flights and we'll pay you X. Which was literally like nothing you can cut. You can cut the film. And it was like, well, you're literally only editor that I know in London, so.
Host
00:06:27.794 - 00:06:28.430
Wow.
Matt Newman
00:06:28.770 - 00:06:42.230
Again, it was like he wanted to bring Anne, who was his editor, and it was like she just wouldn't do it and they couldn't afford to fly her in and put her up and all the nice things that she's used to because she was experienced and I was just, you know, cheap and available.
Host
00:06:43.330 - 00:06:56.940
Wow. So providential. And now like you're somehow linked to the emergence of Tom Hardy, who is, you know, at the time that was kind of.
He had been in films, but now you're involved in his big coming out party and now is one of our finest actors.
Matt Newman
00:06:57.360 - 00:07:01.780
So, yeah, not that he thanked us for it, ever.
Host
00:07:03.360 - 00:07:05.144
Thanks for paying for your own ticket.
Matt Newman
00:07:05.272 - 00:07:50.952
Yeah, awesome, Tom. But no, I mean, he was already involved, I think by the time I showed up. But yeah, he was also on the rebound.
I Think he'd gone to America already and had a very bad experience. I think he did. He played the bad guy in a Star Wars. Not Star Wars, See the one. Star Trek. And it hadn't worked for him. And.
And then he was doing our film, which was literally just no money. Yeah, but it was Nick. And Nick's crazy. And Tom also, as you can imagine, is not afraid of going right out over the edge. And so together they came up.
It was kind of like a concept movie. You know, there was no particular story. It's just everything was about Tom. I think he's in every single scene.
Host
00:07:51.096 - 00:08:30.174
Yeah, the one man show nature of it, those one man show scenes are so visually striking, you know, and you don't watch it and think there's no money because you're just like. You're almost taken aback. Like, the reason I would talk about how much I love Bronson is it was very disruptive to me.
Like, I didn't know what to expect.
I, I had kind of worked backwards after drive and that's when, you know, I started working through Nick and Tom's, you know, their oeuvres simultaneously. So then it took me automatically just quickly back to Bronson and I was just like, whoa. Like, it was one of those shocking but in a good way things.
I'm like, what am I seeing? And yeah, I'm not even thinking about the budget because I'm just. It's a visual feast, right?
Matt Newman
00:08:30.262 - 00:09:38.338
No, it was very. And he, he, he hired a guy called Larry Smith to shoot. Larry Smith was like Stanley Kubrick's lighting Cameraman for like 15 years, 20 years.
So very fast. Yeah, Larry didn't mess about and he knew how to do things efficiently and, and was, you know, they filmed it in a really interesting way.
It was all low angles, wide angle lens. It's actually very simply done. There's like no coverage as I remember, because they didn't have any money. And it was on 16 millimeter.
So the whole thing was like cheap as peanuts. But that's crazy. They were able to do, you know, to. It started out, I remember as being a bit of a sort of Essex boys, very straightforward.
And Nick turned it inside out.
And a lot of the crew that were more used to making straight, they thought it was going to be this kind of goodfellas style gangster biography because he's kind of a gangster figure sort of adjacent, this, this real character. And when Nick started putting him in makeup and having him jump around, do it, they were like this. We didn't sign up for this.
What the hell are you doing? It was.
Host
00:09:38.394 - 00:09:41.510
I'm sensing a theme there with Nick.
Matt Newman
00:09:43.130 - 00:09:43.554
Yeah.
Host
00:09:43.602 - 00:09:43.922
Yeah.
Matt Newman
00:09:43.986 - 00:10:02.930
And then. Oh, he did. He had. I can't even tell you what. Didn't make it into the film because he did some stuff that was really. Yeah.
And we thought, okay, that's maybe a bridge too far. But now they just. They just did whatever. They really made it up on the day. A lot of it. It's just like, what would be fun to do today?
Host
00:10:03.050 - 00:10:38.410
I love those stories. That's amazing. So, you know, some of the questions we have, or. Because we're covering drive, you know, they're more focused on drive.
But there's also some broad ones about just the. The field of editing. So let's just get started with. I would. I'd love for you.
I don't want to steal the thunder here because the story is so cool, but let's talk about the color grading process, because it's, you know, it's. It's maybe widely known amongst REFN fans that he's colorblind.
But, you know, when you talk to the broader cinematic fan base, they don't necessarily know, but they know they like the color grading and drive, that it's very unique. Like, they always. When you talk to kind of a general movie fan, like, the colors were just so wild. But there's a reason for that.
Matt Newman
00:10:39.110 - 00:10:56.542
Is it? I honestly don't understand that. I don't see it as being the.
I mean, I take your word for it, but I don't see it as being particularly like, what is it to you that makes it stand out? Like, in terms of its atmosphere, its color?
Host
00:10:56.686 - 00:11:48.358
To me, there's a couple scenes that stick out. The beautiful saturation because LA is illuminated already. You know what I'm saying? It's already so much color. But the elevator scene is one.
And the scene. It's actually during the intro credits when.
When driver's walking into his apartment, and the apartment is dark, but the illumination behind him is so. I would say sunlight orange. Right. Like, it feels like he's walking out of the sun into his dark. And that's a small moment.
But the elevator, like, the. The lights. All of a sudden, it's like there's darkness outside of the elevator, but the shot is so, like, deep orange.
And then the pink hues of the text and the pink hues of. You know, that kind of come through when he's driving. You can see those pinks kind of coming through, and those are the ones that.
That me and a lot of People notice. It's like you just don't notice pinks and bright oranges that often. It just doesn't.
Matt Newman
00:11:48.454 - 00:12:47.726
Yeah, yeah. Pink at the time was. But I think we just took that from Risky Business because we'd watched that and. And they had a similar thing that it was.
That had a very. It was very feminine. And that was always. The thing that Nick wanted to do is originally quite a macho script. It was. It was very macho.
It was like she was a Latina and he's this kind of hot guy. So a lot of sex in it. And what Nick did, and he did it with Ryan Gosling was they. They really made him. They sort of feminized him a little bit.
He's sort of soft. He turns out to be a psycho, but at the beginning, it's soft. There's a softness around him, and he's. He's like a romantic figure. He's not Matt.
He's not a tough. He's a tough guy, but he's. Yeah. Does this feminine thing. So it was like pink. It just felt like, you know, it fit.
It made it immediately just look different. It's this guy in a car who could be Steve McQueen, but he's got a pink font. Just made it different.
Host
00:12:47.878 - 00:13:11.030
Yeah. And I think Cliff's score pairs with it. It's one of those instances where what you're seeing and what you're hearing are correlated.
You know what I mean? It's like sometimes you just have music and you have the screen and you're like. You're just kind of enjoying.
You know, Martin Scorsese loves needle drops. But this was an instance where it felt like maybe. Maybe you're right. Maybe the color grading wasn't that intense.
But when you add that score, they're working together.
Matt Newman
00:13:11.150 - 00:14:17.174
Yeah. Yeah. It's all those things. And I'll tell you a story about the mix, because Cliff's music came in very late. I know he talked about that on his.
On the thing, but he really was giving it at the last minute. And that was brilliant casting. Like, somebody was like, oh, the only guy that can do this is Cliff Martinez. And he happened to be available.
We were just like, oh, great. And then Nick met him. They liked each other, and he just. I think he did it in three weeks, but we hadn't heard it. We just heard little things.
He'd send it, and then we just approve it because there was no time. And then we got on the mix stage, and then the film changed. It just started to float.
And I remember Being in the mix stage and going, oh, wow, this is getting really good. And it was the music. So all of the things that were already in it just suddenly knitted together and the film just took off.
I remember that feeling that the film was floating. And I think that's Cliff's score. Is it really? Just suddenly. He tied together all of the pop tunes that we had put in.
He used those as a starting point. And it all just started to. Yeah, he threaded everything. All the different elements got threaded in his score, I think.
Host
00:14:17.262 - 00:14:33.366
And it's just perfect. It is such a strange perfection, you know, just a. Almost like an orchestral.
Between the visuals and that music, it's just almost like a perfect orchestral arrangement that just like, just lifts it, you know, it just lifts it in a crazy way.
Matt Newman
00:14:33.518 - 00:14:42.166
Yeah, I agree. And after that, you know, grabbed all of Cliff with both hands. He was like, where did you get like. You're like a ufo. This is amazing.
Host
00:14:42.278 - 00:14:51.748
Yeah, yeah. And then you did. Then you. You both. And then right after. Not to get pigeonholed on Only God Forgives, but then you repeated that again.
And he did Neon Demon as well, too, right?
Matt Newman
00:14:51.804 - 00:15:03.380
He did, yeah. And I love the score he did for that. It's a really good score. It's very difficult to know what to do for that film. And he solved it.
I think it's really great what he did. So now Eclipse is. He's amazing.
Host
00:15:03.540 - 00:15:14.822
It's incredible. So going back to the color grading, so you're. You're actively. You partner. So you were on set with Nick, right. And you were.
For certain scenes, you were kind of consulting him on what. On what color grades would.
Matt Newman
00:15:14.916 - 00:17:19.120
Okay, no, no, no, no, no. We never do that. And it's. And that film was shot by Thomas Siegel. Siegel. And he had a very specific idea of what he was going to do.
And at the time, it was. They were super into. Instagram, had just come out, and there was this other photo app, and they had this sort of degraded, faded look.
So the idea was the movie was going to get this, like, old kind of grotty film look put on top of it. And we tried it in the grading, and it didn't. It didn't look as good as we hoped. Everyone was like, nice concept, but it made everything feel.
It took a lot of the appeal of it away. It was a. It was very interesting, but the film just didn't feel like it's a sexy film, and it didn't feel.
It suddenly felt kind of colorless, so we had to recolor it and it was very unexpected because it was done at the last minute. It was. The last thing that was done was two days color grading with a new guy who just came in and was like, bush.
And we're all like, oh, that's fantastic. And Nick couldn't be there because we were mixing it at the same time. So I went in and supervised. What was the fellow's name?
He's like a really big colorist now at Company 3 in LA. Really cool and super fast. And he just did the whole film in, like 10 hours. Wow. And then we showed it and we're like, oh, that looks great.
That's fantastic. I think the only thing we had to spend a lot of time on was. And it's funny you mentioned it was the exact color of the.
Because it had to be consistent through the whole film. Is that the way that sodium vapor lights look in Los Angeles? Because they can be like this.
There's a way they can be like green, yellow, or like you can have this clean light. And we had to sort of. That all had to be very. And then it felt like la. When they're a certain color.
David Finch's films have said he's very careful about how the street lights look because it's very particular to la. Yeah, we don't go on this. I don't go on the set. Most editors.
Host
00:17:19.200 - 00:17:19.456
Okay.
Matt Newman
00:17:19.488 - 00:17:20.432
I don't think.
Host
00:17:20.616 - 00:17:46.504
Okay. Because I. Maybe I was confused because there's something in the special features about describing to Nick what the color.
What colors could look like and what lighting would look like on set. Maybe I just misinterpreted that because he does. He only. He sees really intense pinks. It sounds like those stimulate his eyes.
But he doesn't know what greens and things look like. So it sounds like. I thought maybe someone had to describe to him what he would be seeing. You know, maybe try to describe that.
Maybe I just misunderstood that in the features.
Matt Newman
00:17:46.552 - 00:18:21.332
Yeah. I mean, he's all about color, but it's. It's. I think one of the things that he has is he doesn't see contrast very well. So I think he sees the colors.
But then I know when we've gone in grading rooms before, he's dialed the contrast up so much that it's ragged and it's like, oh, no, no, no, no. It has to come back. So I think what he. He sees things a lot softer and he wants to push it and push it and push it so that it's crisp.
But you and I are getting this crispness much quicker. So I think it's more like this. But he's got to the point where he just trusts me now, so it's one less problem that he has to deal with. You see?
Host
00:18:21.356 - 00:18:22.100
That's awesome.
Matt Newman
00:18:22.260 - 00:18:23.280
He has enough.
Host
00:18:23.950 - 00:19:08.896
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome. So one of the questions I had sent to you was, you know, we've been doing Movie wars for almost five years now.
And, you know, I do probably 15, 20 hours of research per film because I'm. It's super enjoyable. And you start to see trends, right, in the movies. You.
You study and, you know, some of the relationships I had sent you, editor, director, that were consistent collaborators. Tarantino, Minky, and then George Miller, Margaret Sixel, especially on Fury Road, just an intense partnership.
You know, you have now done enough films where I would say you're a constant collaborator, especially because you started your career with Nick. What is it? What happens? Like what. What happens between a director and editor where they say, I want to work with you consistently?
And what does that relationship look like? And how does it change over time?
Matt Newman
00:19:09.048 - 00:20:59.750
I think all of the. I mean, it's a really good question because it goes the same for every age. Like, every.
Whether it's your DP or the editor or the production designer is those relationships are just all based on trust. Like that you're going to take a jump, and if the director runs out of ideas or doesn't know that you're going to fill in. It's like, it's a big.
A lot of it's about having the same taste. It's not necessary, but it helps. But it's all about trust, and that is just earned.
Like, you do something together and it works, and you go, oh, you really surprised me with this great thing.
So I would say the first time I worked with him, I was just a guy who was there to just cut it for him and make sure I didn't get in his way and make sure he got it on time. It's like, be a pro the first time. And that was for TV show. So no one is going to lose money on it. When we did Bronson, that's going to the market.
So now it's like, okay, you've got to bring something else. We have to make this special.
So on that one, I just went to town and did stuff that I'd always wanted to try and experimented because I see he was experimenting. So he was like, okay, so you're at the same level of pleasing yourself that I am. That's what he's like.
He's just in the business of pleasing himself and hoping that people like it. And I was doing the same thing with his material. Sometimes he'd be like, but wait.
But mainly when you do that, you get a surprise, because I've seen it in a completely different way. And then so gradually you build up trust.
And I think it was three films that I did with him because his other editor and was still supposed to do Valhalla Rising even after Bronson. He was like, bye, you know, thanks.
Host
00:21:00.330 - 00:21:01.110
Wow.
Matt Newman
00:21:01.450 - 00:21:52.680
And then he called me and he'd made four films with her and five. And then. But she. Again, she had. She was doing a very big film. A chill, a child. She had a family problem.
And I went out there because they said, can you just give us some support? Because she's so busy. And I ended up finishing it because she said, I can't do it. I don't have the time, I don't have the energy.
I can't do it for him, and I can't. It had a lot of material. So again, that one, I ended up. Basically, I was available and it was like, can you do it? Because I'm. Is just.
She's just too busy. And he waited for. I think he waited like, four months, and she still couldn't do it. So I showed up and I was like, okay, let me sit down with it.
He had, like, 200 hours of stuff that was shot in slow motion. And I was. I'd only done one film, so I was like, oh, yeah, sure, I can do this easy.
Host
00:21:53.180 - 00:22:15.816
Yeah, let's. By the way. By the way, we're going to do a huge red saturation scene at the end. That ending. Red scene when.
When Mads is in the frame and it starts to shift to those super. I don't know if it's red or contrast, but that isn't. That's an intense. Yeah, I love the. That film, but that. That ending is like, whoa. That was wild.
Matt Newman
00:22:15.928 - 00:23:14.638
Yeah, there was a lot of whoa in that one. It was. It was. We had to invent a lot of things, but again, that was the one that sealed it because he had a very.
He was going through a very hard time, personally, was Nick. He'd lost Ann, who was his. He was. Who had been on. That was supposed to. Her assistant had been on the movie the whole time. And now it was.
It was me again. And he's like, well, okay. But he didn't. He didn't have time. And it was. The film was difficult, and it had been difficult to shoot.
And so it Was difficult to solve, and it took a long time. When we got to the end of that one, when we did Drive, he put me in his contract.
So in a way, it was like, it took one, two, took three films until it was like this. And then it was. Then it was, like, established that, okay, you can really handle all of these crazy things that I'm doing.
But up until then, you know, he was someone, and he was very loyal to Anne. It's just. She was just too busy. So.
Host
00:23:14.774 - 00:24:15.266
Yeah. That's incredible. I love what you said about. You were both. You were both experimenting, you know, and that's huge. I mean, I think you.
You got to be in that way, and Cliff's experimenting and, you know, I love that freedom, especially not to be negative, but I don't know if you agree, but we're in a very sterile time, I would say, across the board with all the remakes and the reboots and just sterile and. But then we have you three, you know, and everyone on your team. I love to hear that there's still folks out there.
And it obviously works because I've got two of you. Yeah. Because I got two of. Not. I mean, and it's hard. I wish I could make room. It's like sometimes, like, maybe Valhalla is also in my top 50.
You know, it's like, these movies speak to me and it makes sense because I love, like, stuff that's wild experiment, and it fits right in. So, I mean, I'm so glad, and I know our fan base is too, to hear that people are still trying, because I.
I hear from our fans all the time, it's like, God, like another reboot. Like, they just announced American Psycho is like, are we really. We still doing this? Like, can we just go back to making original stuff?
Matt Newman
00:24:15.458 - 00:26:13.794
It's not going to happen. No. Not with the current regime. Yeah, no, it's. It's. It's. That's always been his thing is, Nick, is. Is it.
The more he's done it, the more he's realized that he. He just wants to surprise himself and then hopefully surprise other people. And he always does it at a price. These films are not expensive.
They're like, yeah, peanuts compared to what people spend on effectively reheated leftovers nowadays. It's really like, they make. That. You have to make them very, very cheaply.
And, you know, you know, because you read a lot of the stories about Drive, they get made by you. We had a lucky star, but people, they don't want to make films like that. Because it's. It's hard to do it. You. And it's.
You divide your audience because it's not something that's for everybody. You have to make it at a price and you have to be lucky as well. Because they called it the feathered fish.
That was an expression I heard the first time there. They didn't know what to do with it. They were like, it's not this and it's not that. And if we say it's this, then those people are confused.
And if we say it's that, those people are confused. They just sort of threw their hands up. And I understand, because they deal in certainties like the American business is very, very conservative.
And it has to be because of the amount of money involved. But they're very, very, very conservative.
And anytime something is outside of the lines, they, you can see, or they get nervous, the marketing people get nervous. Everyone gets nervous. Because now they're going to have to do something they don't usually do. They can't just so.
And I don't think Drive was particularly outside the box. We just, we liked it. But it was amazing how people were very surprised by or like super annoyed by it because they were like, you can't do that. That.
I was. I was lied to. I was. You cheated me. And so you never know. You hope the audience is open minded, but sometimes you really discover that not.
Host
00:26:13.962 - 00:26:26.178
Yeah, I know, right? Like when.
Because when the rights were acquired, they were saying, we want something along the lines of gone in 60 seconds or like Fast and Furious Light. Then Nick comes in and says, it's a fairy tale. It's the hero's journey.
Matt Newman
00:26:26.274 - 00:26:26.950
Yeah.
Host
00:26:27.450 - 00:26:50.944
And people are just like. But we had Hugh Jackman like, where's the. Where are the car crashes? Where are the explosions? You know, and he's like, it's a fairy tale.
And that blew my mind. It actually made sense hearing him talk about it as a fairy tale, because the relationship between the protagonist and it's great.
But I can understand financiers saying, no, that's not. No.
Matt Newman
00:26:51.112 - 00:27:51.474
Yeah. I don't think he told them that. I think they thought they were doing like three weeks cars and three weeks actors.
And it was actually like, they didn't have any money, so they. For that kind of stuff.
The stunt guy, Darren Prescott, who I think he only does these huge, like, car films, he had just come back from Fast 5 and he said they'd spent on the first 15 minutes of that film, which was second unit, mainly double the entire production budget of Drive and they'd be. Because we had one stunt where we had to flip a car. It didn't even flip over and it just went like, bump.
And he was like, okay, that's it, we're going home. And he. On his previous one, he'd done that 10 day for like three months in Brazil with a full crew and a repair shop.
There was no money for the cars, so you had to do it in a different way. It's like the cars just take forever. It's so boring. So it was just like the cars were just sort of reduced to the last bit of the shoot.
Host
00:27:51.602 - 00:28:18.420
That's. That's intense. Thank you for that. All right, next question. This is what I'm really interested in.
So especially given your background, how you got into the business, you know, what are some. What are some of the biggest changes you've seen in your profession during your time? But also, what are some of the. What does the future hold?
I know a lot of people talking about AI and I also ramble a lot about CGI and things. And, you know, I love stuff done on film and practical effects. So what do you see as the future?
Matt Newman
00:28:19.600 - 00:30:16.988
Well, I mean, I just heard recently, somebody was telling me, the director I was talking with, that it is becoming more normal in now for editors to be let go after the offline cut. So typically what we're doing, like on a.
On any size production is the editor follows the film through delivery because, you know, every single piece of it. And now they're trying to cut budgets. They're doing like you do the cut in the avid offline.
But as soon as it goes forwards to sound vision, it's like, right, we don't need that guy anymore. I haven't personally ever had that.
But that's one thing where they're trying to reduce the role and just basically hand it off to the next management team. Whereas really the editor, along with the director is the person that is shepherding the entire thing.
You know, holding the baby until you give it to the producer at the end. So that's one thing that may or may not be coming. I just heard it. I think AI could change things. It's making some things much easier.
Like additional dialogue recording in temp. You can just do super easy now online, if you need a line off, you don't have to have little subtitles.
But these are just small efficiencies that just improve your workday. I don't think at the minute they affect anybody's. It's not existential because most of the Actors won't allow it for a final cut. There's no way.
Yeah, but just in terms of, like, you know, we use temp, vfx. We do stupid things in after effects pulling, and they go into the film until the real guys come in and make the object that you see.
So AI is helping in these little efficiencies. And it is certainly helping maybe with, like, data collection and organizing. They'll find a way to cut a couple of jobs, I'm sure, you know.
Yeah, but I haven't seen it yet. I think it's more. I'm hearing it from the writer's side.
Host
00:30:17.124 - 00:30:57.518
Yeah. My reaction is always like, who is asking for this? You know, because my thing is always like, I want.
Because to me, the reason that cinema is so important is because it's everything. It's visual, it's audio, it's performance, it's writing. It's all the art forms together. Right. It's like, why do we want to.
I know there's technologists and capitalists out there that are very interested in seeing it, but from an art perspective, who's. Who wants to see it? I want you cutting the movie.
I want you because you're the artist, you know, and Nick is the artist and the writers are the artists. Like, I don't want that as a. As a film fanatic. I don't want that to go away. It's just maybe I'm an old.
Matt Newman
00:30:57.574 - 00:30:57.838
Old.
Host
00:30:57.894 - 00:31:02.370
What we call in the States, a codger, you know, an old guy who doesn't work a curmudgeon.
Matt Newman
00:31:02.680 - 00:32:55.996
But no, I don't think any. I mean, who knows what the people running those companies really want? I'm sure they keep that very close to their chest.
But, I mean, apart from power, obviously. But I think that it's. Mostly what I understand is that it'll be somehow integrated as an efficiency tool. I don't think it'll replace.
Although, I don't know. I was reading the recent issue of Harper's magazine. They've. Their lead story is Spotify creating ghost artists through AI on playlists.
So they're basically, you know, they're not real people and it's not real music. It's all AI. And that's going on, you know, at a high level.
I haven't read it yet, but I was like, wow, okay, so I'm gonna find that they are trying this. So at the end, it's like, who benefits?
And I think obviously the AI companies will benefit because they're all racing to create a monopoly just as they did in any other tech sector.
And I think in Hollywood, its adoption will be based, I think, on the bottom line of, like, if it means the studios can make big efficiencies, of course they'll use it. If it can speed up a production. I mean, look, digital editing was existential to the guys that came before me suddenly.
I mean, look, I was a little blase when I said I just told everybody I was an editor. The reason that was possible is because I didn't have to spend 10 years literally cutting film. I couldn't have blanked that in the film days.
There's a physical skill, but you get computer software, you can learn it in 4 days if you've got half a brain. So, yeah, I think all of those guys, suddenly I was the person coming in and taking their jobs, because I could be like, yo, I know how to use this.
I learned it yesterday. So you're right.
Host
00:32:56.068 - 00:33:50.490
There's a sliding scale, right?
Like, I like the fact that I can interview you and you're in Berlin and I'm in Nashville, Tennessee, in the States, and we're talking, you know, and I can make a podcast because I'm also a horrible audio editor, but I'm just good enough to edit conversations. But you don't. Don't ask me to edit a record, you know, because you're right. Right. It's a sliding scale.
And, you know, when you study, like, you know, Kubrick, you know, a guy that not only was at film, but he was literally in the room, you know, he had a. He.
He has the editors for all of his films, had a lodge on his 100 acre property and in London, you know, and like, they were living on campus and he's walking around, you know. You know, you get this visual of him punishing people for doing the wrong thing. And obviously that's an exaggeration. Obviously, he.
He put his editors through the paces. But you're right, it's. It's a. It's a different. We don't want AI, but we've also benefited from digital. It's a very interesting conversation to have.
Matt Newman
00:33:50.610 - 00:34:09.980
Oh, sure. And my kids use it. I mean, my daughter just had to cut like a. They do these YouTube style, like a film analysis so that she. She.
She puts together to, you know, some images from films and talks over it. And she edited it on a program that she downloaded for free that was really good. I was like, wow, that's for free?
Host
00:34:10.010 - 00:34:10.536
Free.
Matt Newman
00:34:10.688 - 00:34:56.561
And the AI helped clean things up, and it was all integrated.
And I was like, you know, if she does three of those things, you could employ her, you know, or for that matter, anyone that has, you know, sat and played with those things. You see great work on YouTube all the time, and. And it's just people in their bedrooms using it so effectively. The tool, it's like a pen is a tool.
Doesn't make everyone a novelist. You just need to be. It's how much, like, I spent my life trying to make films, so that's why I sit in editing rooms doing features.
But that was also a life choice. You know, I said no to a thousand other things in the meantime. So it's. I don't know. I think AI will. Will find its place. I don't know.
I think in the film business, it's yet to be seen. I know people are scared of it.
Host
00:34:56.665 - 00:35:02.749
Yeah, of course. Now I'm confused because you just enlightened me on a whole different thing. I didn't even think about. About how I'm spoiled by my own technology.
Matt Newman
00:35:05.770 - 00:35:07.618
Yeah, we're all slaves to it.
Host
00:35:07.754 - 00:35:42.688
That's awesome. Well, I feel like my last. My last question you answered. You know, I mean, I don't know if you want to speak more into.
You know, my question was about just kind of your signature in the uniqueness that you develop over time. I mean, would you say that that is probably not intentional? Because it never is.
Like any great guitar player you talk to or any great songwriter, it's like they don't set out to be this person. They just kind of do what comes from them. But how do you feel like your signature visual?
You know, the color, whatever it is, like, how do you feel like that's developed? And do you feel like you have. With your art form, you have something that's very unique to you, that you've developed over the course of your career?
Matt Newman
00:35:42.784 - 00:38:54.450
Well, I'm an editor. Editors are not, I tell you, you know, I don't shoot that material. I don't write it. It's next.
But what the editor does, what I've learned, what you're responsible for, really. I can't change the actors. You can't. You know, if you have a bad actor, you just have to help him. I can't change the performance. So you just.
So a lot of it is just. You have to hope that the things you're given, the material already has potential.
And with Nick, it always does because he's very careful about what he selects, and then he's very careful how he makes it. But the one thing I have discovered is that I do know how to. And I enjoy flourishes and creating moments, and I've learned how to do that.
And, like, how you give things shape and how you turn an audience on and how you can accelerate and make somebody excited. And those things I've just learned that I enjoy, and I learned how to do them by doing them. But it's not like it's a signature or something.
It's just. That's what movies are for. They're for giving you a jolt.
And, you know, the crudeness of films, the bigger they are, somehow the better, and the cruder they are, the better. And so I get. I get high on doing that, on creating those. Helping create those moments and make. Making.
Making it suddenly just suck, you know, when it goes straight into your. Straight into your gut. That's. But, you know, as far as the. The style, I don't think any editor would tell you he had a style. It's more. It's you.
You have to be. You're responsible for the material. And so next shoots slow, and you can't speed it up. You can just go in and out of it at the right time.
But that is set on the set. That's. That's how it's done. The actors are doing it like that. And if you. If you try and compress it.
And we've had editors come in when we've done TV shows, very smart people have come in and that Nick's material has completely bamboozled them. Because usually an editor wants. Well, all editors want choices. I want to be able to show this. I'd like that moment closer.
I want that detail so you can lead the audience. And Nick doesn't do it. He has like, one angle for, like, 10 minutes, and then maybe another angle that's wider for 10 minutes, and that's it.
And you have to make it work. And they get very frustrated because he doesn't give you the options.
So if I have a style, I'm very patient because you have to respect what has been designed. So it's really fitting into the design of it rather than I'm going to take all of this coverage and shape it into what I think it should be. That's.
That's not how it's working.
It's much more like following the direction that he's already set with how he photographed it and the way he made the actors stand and the rhythm they're going at. So, yeah, I've seen very smart people reduced tears because they're like, I can't. He can't start it on the movie. No, they just know.
It's like, well, we got to fight. We got to find some way of making it work.
Host
00:38:54.990 - 00:39:17.110
Yeah. Or with Nick, is like, is the protagonist going to say anything ever? Are there any. Is there. He's totally fine with Mads and Gosling.
I mean, not saying words he's told, he's totally fine with. That's what in my email said to you about the breathing. That's one thing I pick up that. Thank you for clarifying in the signature thing.
And that is just my, you know, my idiocy for not understanding the art form, but.
Matt Newman
00:39:17.150 - 00:39:18.530
No, not at all. No.
Host
00:39:18.910 - 00:39:34.686
You know, but there is the breathing thing, and it's. It's my lack of experience speaking. But, like, I just feel like what you and.
And Nick and Cliff, whoever is involved in all that, like, we are forced to just let the visuals breathe oftentimes.
Matt Newman
00:39:34.798 - 00:39:35.198
Oh, yeah.
Host
00:39:35.214 - 00:39:44.330
And I do think. I don't know where that comes from, but that is something that's.
I would call signature to the films that you all make is that I just love being forced to sit and watch.
Matt Newman
00:39:44.630 - 00:39:45.214
Oh, yeah.
Host
00:39:45.262 - 00:39:46.046
The silence.
Matt Newman
00:39:46.158 - 00:41:13.246
It's great for actors because in most movies it's like close up and they're gone. But if you're an actor, in next film, you are on camera, you are being indulged like you are. Your face is being studied.
And I still think, you know, I think he did very good job with Elle in the Neon Demon. It's really. Those actors are really. That you see everything of them and you see their best side, and he really sort of indulges what they have and.
But that's really all coming from him and people. I remember just to. Not to go on about it too long, but only God forgives, which is his most.
Like, people hate that film, but some people also really just think it's just a complete UFO and love it. So that film is 86 minutes long, and everyone goes, oh, my God, it's so slow. But it's not. It's.
I think it's cut fast because the material was, like, even slower. But he had to slow it down that much.
Like, we just went on forever, and then now you're just really just seeing these, like, just the right bits in the right order, and it's still slow. I know. Compared to everything. But he's doing that. It's. His whole MO is like. He wants this intensity. And it's kind of weird.
There's a couple of people do it, but he's definitely his thing yeah.
Host
00:41:13.358 - 00:41:38.370
One of my fondest memories of just movies in general is the Day that Only God Forgives came out. I took off a whole day of work and we have this independent theater in Nashville, Tennessee. It's called the Belcourt Theater.
If you're ever in the States, it's worth visiting. It's wooden and one of the few cinemas still showing a lot of independent film. I'm one of three people on opening day at the Belcourt Theater.
Sitting in the dark in the middle.
Matt Newman
00:41:39.750 - 00:41:40.174
Yeah.
Host
00:41:40.222 - 00:42:01.950
On a Tuesday. Just enough enamored and my friend's like, what'd you do yesterday? I was like, I went and saw Only God Forgives. Like, what?
I'm like, you took off a whole day to see a movie? I was like, yes, I took off a whole day to see. I'm just like blown away and, you know. But it was just.
It's one of my favorite memories of just sitting in this beautiful theater, basically alone and watching, you know, an amazing film. But you said Only For God Forgives. I thought you'd enjoy that memory.
Matt Newman
00:42:02.110 - 00:42:34.756
No, no, it's great. It's. It's. Yeah, that. That I. I sat in an empty theater once. I was literally.
I went in to see how people reacting and I'm like, I'm the only guy that bought a ticket and I made it. That was in Berlin. But yeah, they're not easy. But they do. They do repay watching again. That's the thing.
I watched that one the first time a few years ago. I hadn't seen it since we did it and I'd forgotten everything. I forgot what we did. So I just sort of took it in as a film and I was like, why?
Is really strange. No wonder people were freaked out.
Host
00:42:34.908 - 00:42:35.700
It's like.
Matt Newman
00:42:35.820 - 00:42:39.030
It's certainly not what anyone expected after Drive.
Host
00:42:39.180 - 00:42:47.550
Yeah. It might be that the I1, you know, for the. For the untested movie Go. Or the. The eye stabbing part. My. That might have been where it got.
Matt Newman
00:42:48.650 - 00:43:06.762
Yeah, there was some. There was some gnarlyness in that. It was necessarily necessary. But I don't think of it as. I mean, I don't remember the violence. I remember that.
It's just. You never know what's coming next. It's just so unfolds in such a strange way, so unpredictable and bizarre. So. Yeah.
Host
00:43:06.906 - 00:43:19.706
Yeah. Well, Nick himself said he's uncomfortable even with his own violence in his films. He's. He doesn't love it.
You know, a lot of people, I think, think he loves ultra violence. But he's spoken about this. It's it's. It's there for the discomfort. He doesn't enjoy it.
Matt Newman
00:43:19.858 - 00:43:46.140
No. And that was one thing that people were always saying that Drive was very violent.
I guess it was because there'd been nothing in the first half, but because you felt it. Because all those people somehow felt quite real.
And I remember watching Fast Five, which came out at the same time, where they literally kill like 200 people in a favela in Brazil and no one bats an eyelid because it's just fun. It's like fun violence. You know what I mean? It's just like.
Host
00:43:46.180 - 00:43:46.800
Yeah.
Matt Newman
00:43:47.460 - 00:44:02.240
Which is the, you know, Call of Duty style. It's just. It's there to get high on and not to kind of jolt you out and go, I thought Ryan Gosling was a nice guy in this movie. He was not.
It's like, I don't like that film anymore.
Host
00:44:02.400 - 00:44:24.320
Well, I don't know if Nick realized how meta it was gonna be that the first really big slaying in Drive is Christina Hendricks, and she's this beloved American beautiful actress. People were obsessed with her in Mad Men and she's this icon of beauty. And then with Drive, we get a close up of the shotgun to the head.
And I think for some people, that maybe again, just kind of your average view of the way.
Matt Newman
00:44:24.360 - 00:44:47.172
It's actually the first time. Right. That's the first time in the film. I know. I could still remember because he kept saying, more, more, more. I was going, come on, it's ridiculous.
And he was right because it put everyone on notice. It's so over the top. But there you go. That's. Yeah, he just. I think he. He likes poking his finger in people's eye.
Host
00:44:47.316 - 00:45:23.856
Yeah. Well, that's a great note to close on. Hey, thank you so much for your time. This was really not only fun, but educational.
I try not to fanboy out too much, but I will just say that I love your work and it's impacted me a lot as a movie lover. I went from not knowing who Nick was to seeing Drive and then working backwards. And now a lot of those films in my top 50.
He's probably my third favorite director of all time, and you're a huge part of that. And so I always try to focus on you and not the other person. But you guys work as this team, so. Yeah. But thank you for doing this.
And our fans are going to eat this up.
Matt Newman
00:45:23.928 - 00:45:28.752
I appreciate it. Just out of curiosity, so who are your top two directors?
Host
00:45:28.896 - 00:46:15.510
Oh, direct. I have, you know, I have yet to get any Email agents. I have not gotten any direct. I've gotten a lot of CGI. I've gotten a couple of Oscar winners.
Tim McGovern, who won the Oscar for Total Recall for that innovative cgi. I've talked to him. Yeah, to Mick Rogers, who was both Mel Gibson stuntman, but Mel was also he in or. Sorry.
Mick also invented the Mick rig for Fast and Furious, which changed. It actually was safe enough for celebrities now or actors to sit in the movie in the moving vehicle and it made it look faster. So I've talked to him.
I've talked to Steve Byrne. He's a comedian and a filmmaker here in Nashville, but he's a well known comedian.
I've talked to a few other folks, but those are just a few examples. But yeah, I've yet to get. Get a director in the, in the movie.
Matt Newman
00:46:15.670 - 00:46:23.398
Let's try and get Nick. He likes to talk. I know he's busy, but he's in la, so he's actually in. He's on your time right now? More or less.
Host
00:46:23.534 - 00:46:23.894
Yeah.
Matt Newman
00:46:23.942 - 00:46:26.370
If you're in Nashville, let me write to him.
Host
00:46:26.670 - 00:46:27.798
Oh, well, that's very kind.
Matt Newman
00:46:27.854 - 00:46:35.410
Yeah, yeah, no, I'll ask him. And then who, who are your. You said Nick is number three. So which. What other directors do you like?
Host
00:46:35.950 - 00:47:08.710
I have like. Yeah, I have like five that. That at any given time could take that number one spot. Like while I'm watching Nick. It's Nick, you know, but the co.
And Scorsese, Coppola and Paul Thomas Anderson are kind of those five that at any given time could, you know, all very different. Right? But I love so many. It's not because I dislike others. There's just so like Vorhoeven. Robocop is my favorite movie of all time.
So Vorhoeven speaks to me. Yeah, he's great. That's cool.
Matt Newman
00:47:10.090 - 00:47:13.434
I love Paul Thomas Anderson. He's amazing. He's amazing.
Host
00:47:13.482 - 00:47:17.194
He really is. Yeah, you should get that guy.
Matt Newman
00:47:17.242 - 00:47:21.018
Why don't you talk to that guy? He's interested. Dylan, Is it Dylan?
Host
00:47:21.194 - 00:47:31.882
Yeah, yeah, I saw, I saw Dylan. He was on the list. I haven't emailed yet, but I, I did There Will Be Blood with a voice actor friend of mine and we're.
I'm gonna release that in a couple months, so. Yeah, that would be a good time.
Matt Newman
00:47:31.986 - 00:47:44.186
Yeah, I met him once. He was all right. He's. And he loves to talk about editing. He does like, he does quite a lot of seminars, I think.
He goes and like talks to people and explains what he does and things like that.
Host
00:47:44.338 - 00:47:45.546
Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Newman
00:47:45.658 - 00:47:46.042
Cool.
Host
00:47:46.106 - 00:47:53.162
Well, that sound. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, and, yeah, I hope you have a great rest of the day and we'll. We'll talk soon.
Matt Newman
00:47:53.266 - 00:47:54.922
Thank you, and happy New Year.
Host
00:47:55.026 - 00:47:55.930
Yeah, you too.
Matt Newman
00:47:56.050 - 00:47:59.930
Okay. Movie Wars.