Upgrade
Kyle
00:00:03.120 - 00:00:16.625
Movie Wars. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie Wars Podcast. What's going on, fellas?
Seth
00:00:16.705 - 00:00:17.105
What's up?
Kyle
00:00:17.145 - 00:00:18.193
What's up, Kyle here?
Seth
00:00:18.249 - 00:00:18.929
I'm Seth.
Drew
00:00:19.017 - 00:00:20.121
And I'm Drew.
Kyle
00:00:20.233 - 00:00:28.765
This is a weird day for me. It's weird because a. Someone wanted to do more work on the podcast, which is crazy.
Drew
00:00:28.845 - 00:00:29.813
So, you know it wasn't me.
Kyle
00:00:29.869 - 00:00:40.589
Yeah, it wasn't true right away. So what's cool is Seth and Drew and I have a. Like, a movie file, and it's like, all the movies want to cover. It was funny. Like.
Seth
00:00:40.637 - 00:00:42.485
Like we're the only ones who've contributed to this.
Kyle
00:00:42.565 - 00:00:43.813
You have a column on there.
Drew
00:00:43.909 - 00:00:45.541
Yeah, I know. Maybe I'll get to it.
Seth
00:00:45.573 - 00:00:46.701
Just throw some in there.
Drew
00:00:46.733 - 00:00:46.989
Yeah.
Kyle
00:00:47.037 - 00:01:10.017
If you ever decide to toss a movie on there, we've covered a lot of them. And I was surprised because I opened it the next morning, and Seth had added, like, 100 movies. Like, that's what I'm talking about.
And then you texted me and said, I really want to cover Upgrade. And you're like, if we. And we decided to do it, like, you're like, don't do any research.
And I was like, so I may look like I don't know what to do with my hands during this podcast, but once you take it away, man, we're doing Upgrade.
Seth
00:01:10.081 - 00:03:04.731
Yeah. So to Intro, this was my number one movie of 2018. When it came out. It tied for first place for me with Bo Burnham's eighth grade. So two grade movies.
Yeah, those are different movies, but, my God, they both impressed me in such different ways. We're gonna go in the background of Upgrade for a second. It was written and directed by Leigh Whannell, an Australian writer director.
You might know him. He wrote the first three Saw movies and played Adam in the first Saw movies. The guy in the room with Christian or with Cary Elwes.
He also wrote the Insidious franchise and directed Insidious 3. That was his directorial debut. But he's also acted in everything from the Matrix Reloaded to Aquaman as well.
So the dude has had his fingers in so many different aspects of the industry. He had this idea, and this was even before Elon Musk had announced that he was going to be doing Neuralink.
But he had this idea of a man who'd been paralyzed and had some sort of chip reconnect his spine back together so he would be able to move again.
And that's where this whole situation was birthed from, was this idea that he had, like, I don't know, probably five Years before they even really got rolling with the movie, they shot the whole thing in Melbourne, Australia. So every, every big wide shot you're seeing, even if there's stuff digitally added to it, that's all parts of Melbourne that they were shooting in.
He purposefully wanted to be set in a near and recognizable future. Something that would be not too far, maybe 20, 30 years ahead of where we are now, but something that we would still be able to connect to.
Which I think, as you were talking about before we started the podcast, that it kind of has that 80s feel because you watch something like the Predator or like Terminator and it obviously is set in a modern time, but it's that sci fi that we can all still connect and relate to.
Kyle
00:03:04.803 - 00:03:12.059
Almost like that transition from a non technological society to a society that's fixing to fully depend on it. Like that middle ground. Yeah.
Drew
00:03:12.107 - 00:03:16.269
And I feel like every movie like that is always like self driving cars. That's what we need.
Seth
00:03:16.347 - 00:05:48.629
Which obviously is a part of this movie. And I'll get. Because there's something cool about the cars that I'll get to in a little bit. Sweet.
But yeah, that to him, he was like, I didn't want this to look like Blade Runner. I didn't want this to be in such a far distant future that we had no connection to it.
Because hearing about a guy getting a chip put in his neck to put his body back together wouldn't be so cool. It wouldn't be a novel idea in that kind of world. It would be pretty like. No, that's a thing. Like obviously.
So he thought this would be more remarkable set in that kind of world. So they're going through production.
He was talking to a lot of different companies and ended up setting with Blumhouse, who did get out, and a lot of the Jordan Peele movies. And he went with them because he loves what they're doing with horror specifically.
Even though I don't think anyone really considers this movie to be horror, they have a much more grounded look on filmmaking and producing. So that's why he ended up going with him, as I'm sure we all recognize the stunts and the fight was. It was a very important part of this movie.
And when he was talking to the stunt coordinator, he said he wanted him to throw everything he knew about stunt coordination and stunt choreography just out the window and start completely from scratch. Because he wanted that robotic weird nature to those fights scenes. He didn't want it to feel like anything that we were familiar with.
And apparently what he actually drew A lot of inspiration from old kung fu movies to kind of get the visual style of how the fight scenes were both going to be filmed and choreographed. He mentioned Ong Kek and the Raid as two movies that he was incredibly inspired by. And now movies that I need to go see.
I've never seen either of these movies before, so I really need to know. But that's where the cinematography of. Keeping the. The action front and center. If you notice, during the fight scenes, there's almost like there's.
There's. The cuts are only there when they have to be. As opposed to it taking seven shots for Liam Neeson to jump over a fence. There's literally.
It's such long shots when it comes to how they shot the fight choreography in the film. Basically, he didn't want you to ever get confused. He didn't want you to ever lose what was going on in the fight.
One more thing about the director, he absolutely loved practical effects. In fact, there's a lot more practical effects than you would think of in this movie. Specifically when it came to the deaths. The.
What he describes as the PEZ dispenser knife kill, which is one of my favorite kills in all of cinema history. Like, that was just utterly brutal.
Kyle
00:05:48.717 - 00:05:49.389
So brutal.
Seth
00:05:49.477 - 00:05:52.781
That was a prosthetic head. Like, that was. That was done practically.
Kyle
00:05:52.853 - 00:05:53.597
I love that.
Seth
00:05:53.741 - 00:05:56.491
And they had two chances to get it right, otherwise they were fucked.
Kyle
00:05:56.573 - 00:05:59.943
And it trumped the cgi. When we talked about the crowd.
Seth
00:05:59.999 - 00:06:00.279
Yeah.
Kyle
00:06:00.327 - 00:06:02.311
That one looks so dumb now compared to this one.
Seth
00:06:02.383 - 00:06:07.711
It was insane. The other one, when he blew the guy's head off with the shotgun in his arm, that was also.
Kyle
00:06:07.823 - 00:06:08.543
Wow.
Drew
00:06:08.719 - 00:06:29.249
Yeah. And I. I mean, when you see practical effects like that, you can see why people like him, like, prefer it.
I mean, there's just something practical, looks more realistic. And when we're watching a movie, we're kind of wanting to be. And we want it to be realistic. We want it to be. I mean, you get in some movies.
I mean, you know, you think about a superhero or a futuristic movies.
Kyle
00:06:29.297 - 00:06:29.521
Yeah.
Drew
00:06:29.553 - 00:06:31.873
Some things you need cgi, sometimes you need special effects.
Seth
00:06:31.929 - 00:06:34.161
Absolutely. And there's plenty in this movie.
Drew
00:06:34.313 - 00:06:41.561
But when you get those real. I mean, it just. It's. Yeah, it's like a. It's like a real steak versus a McRae.
Kyle
00:06:41.593 - 00:06:42.525
It's impactful.
Drew
00:06:43.025 - 00:06:46.289
You just hear just like, this is. This is. That's what I came for.
Kyle
00:06:46.337 - 00:06:54.737
It's really the whole crux of why Friday the 13th is good. The story's not great. Yeah, he's not great. But the effects are so. Tom Savini is so top notch.
Seth
00:06:54.801 - 00:06:58.099
That lasts 30 minutes is the only thing that saved that movie.
Kyle
00:06:58.147 - 00:06:58.491
Yeah.
Seth
00:06:58.563 - 00:07:55.939
So, no, 100% agree. Our lead actor was Logan Marshall Green. He had done a couple of things, but was still a very. And still today is a pretty relatively unknown actor.
He auditioned for the part, he found out about it and immediately contacted Lee and was like, I have to be in this movie. I absolutely love the concept.
And so when they cast him, it was like a month between casting and when he showed up for rehearsals, he spent that entire month sending Lee videos of him learning how to do the walk where his face and head was doing something completely different from the rest of his body. He approached all the fights as, like, a dance.
He really took the kind of the ballroom dancer or ballet dancer perspective as far as choreographing the fights because of the way a computer would have everything so particularly set as far as the movements he made. Also, he did 95% of his own stunts in the movie.
Kyle
00:07:55.987 - 00:07:56.339
Wow.
Seth
00:07:56.427 - 00:08:03.875
Like, literally, the main stunt coordinator said he kind of did nothing on set because he never had to step in and be the stunt guy.
Kyle
00:08:03.955 - 00:08:04.459
I love that.
Seth
00:08:04.507 - 00:08:04.899
Yeah.
Drew
00:08:04.987 - 00:08:10.215
So what a. Like, I hope he. I mean, that guy still got paid to just kind of hang out. What a good week. Or.
Kyle
00:08:10.595 - 00:08:15.563
That's another 80s thing, man. I mean, Keanu and Sly, those guys loved doing their own stunts.
Seth
00:08:15.619 - 00:08:31.429
Oh, yeah.
Well, something I've also realized, so between the original Crow, American Psycho last week, and this movie, we're now talking about three movies we've watched where the lead actor was 150% into what was going on.
Kyle
00:08:31.517 - 00:08:31.805
Yeah.
Seth
00:08:31.845 - 00:08:42.565
He was so sold on the idea that he was just like, whatever, you're going to pay me, you're going to pay me. I'm just going to be there and I'm going to put all of myself into making sure this is the best thing it can be.
Drew
00:08:42.645 - 00:08:47.063
And that makes a difference in the movies. You can see. See when the lead star is really.
Kyle
00:08:47.199 - 00:08:48.711
Yeah, yeah.
Drew
00:08:48.743 - 00:08:53.023
Gives a. Or is working well with a director or is like, there's like. Yeah.
Kyle
00:08:53.119 - 00:08:57.223
And his biggest credit to date was Prometheus. Right. That was kind of the one where people would recognize him.
Seth
00:08:57.279 - 00:09:12.005
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That. Yeah. There was a couple others, but even. Even in all of those, he was just kind of a background character.
Like, he had never been the full four, you know, brute force of a movie. Like, he was in this. This was a huge chance for him to really straight stretches, acting chops.
Kyle
00:09:12.045 - 00:09:12.665
Yeah.
Seth
00:09:13.325 - 00:09:25.350
In the comment or in the behind the scenes, they talked to the producer, Kylie, do friends, and she said it was shot in six weeks and the budget was under $5 million.
Drew
00:09:25.465 - 00:09:25.928
Wow.
Seth
00:09:26.043 - 00:09:33.125
For comparison, the Crow Wicked Prayer was an 8 to $10 million budget.
Drew
00:09:33.165 - 00:09:33.925
That's hilarious.
Seth
00:09:34.005 - 00:09:39.837
This was made for half the amount of money that the Crow Wicked Prayer was made for.
Drew
00:09:40.021 - 00:09:44.101
And you can tell that movie was like, is anything gonna ever be as good?
Kyle
00:09:44.213 - 00:09:45.949
Half of that was spent on Hopper's fur coat.
Seth
00:09:45.997 - 00:09:48.621
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Tara reads tits.
Kyle
00:09:48.653 - 00:09:50.949
Yeah, yeah. Worth it.
Drew
00:09:51.117 - 00:09:51.981
Worth it.
Seth
00:09:52.133 - 00:09:52.829
Oh my God.
Drew
00:09:52.917 - 00:09:53.597
Nice coat.
Seth
00:09:53.661 - 00:10:17.239
Yeah. But yeah, literally it was just.
They knew that they were going to be able to have a North American opening because they were working with Blumhouse, so they knew they could get away with a lower budget for the higher return. So yeah, just even it still just blows my mind. $5 million is absolutely nothing. That's not even considered a low budget film.
That is considered a micro budget film.
Kyle
00:10:17.287 - 00:10:17.583
Yeah.
Seth
00:10:17.639 - 00:10:23.599
In today's industry. So what they were able to achieve, especially with the practical effects just absolutely blew my mind.
Kyle
00:10:23.687 - 00:10:24.335
That's wild.
Drew
00:10:24.455 - 00:10:25.355
Very cool.
Seth
00:10:26.215 - 00:11:11.780
Final little bits about the background of it. So the stunt cinematographer's name is stunning. Stefan Duccio. He specifically wanted to lean into the non realism of the lighting.
Kind of lean into that idea of it is a slightly futuristic city. So not everything is going to be as natural as it could be.
So you'll notice in scenes like when he's fighting the final henchmen, you have these like blue and green lights outside the windows. And he really, because of things like that, wanted to lean into kind of that neon noir kind of weird, unnatural lighting. He, they also.
This was one of my favorite just random film making tidbits. They shot on antique anamorphic lenses from the 70s.
Kyle
00:11:11.863 - 00:11:12.197
Wow.
Seth
00:11:12.280 - 00:11:24.225
Like they were built for 70s film cameras and they bought them used vintage because they wanted the kind of visual look of the film to be very ambiguous as to when it was made.
Kyle
00:11:24.345 - 00:11:24.961
That's wild.
Seth
00:11:25.033 - 00:11:35.745
Okay. So just as a filmmaker, it's little things like that that just blow my mind when.
When they figure out ways to bring old school tricks into a very new looking movie.
Kyle
00:11:35.825 - 00:11:36.617
That's incredible.
Seth
00:11:36.721 - 00:12:06.537
Finally we have the fight choreographer, Chris. Chris Weir. He was presented with the script and he knew he had to use a fighting style that he'd never seen before.
And so he went with the idea that the computer would be so much more efficient with minimal movement. So he combined multiple fighting styles to get where they ended up. The entire movie was choreographed in a week and rehearsed for two weeks.
And he designed all the fights around the scale and the budget, and once again, everything was done practically.
Kyle
00:12:06.641 - 00:12:08.977
Wow. They did a lot. A lot. With minimal.
Seth
00:12:09.041 - 00:12:40.645
Yeah, yeah. This is a true.
Yeah, this is a true example of everybody just coming together because the idea for the project was so, so cool, honestly, like, this is. This is a world I've never really seen before in a sci fi film. It was. And I know the kind of plot structure of it is very borrowed.
It is technically just a revenge film at its, you know, most simple core. But I think he did a lot to kind of play around with what the normal tropes of a revenge film would look like.
Drew
00:12:40.685 - 00:13:03.377
And I loved that. I love that they went out of their way to make it futuristic, but not too futuristic, because that added to the storyline.
Because here, today in 2024, when you're, you know, watching this about this chip that can, you know, completely, you know, AI completely takes over and does everything. Like it's a conceivable plot for a future thing that could happen.
Seth
00:13:03.441 - 00:13:03.777
Yeah.
Drew
00:13:03.841 - 00:13:19.163
I mean, there's a lot of.
A lot of jumps to get there in technology, but, like, just in the days of where we have, you know, AI doing our graphic designing and all that stuff, it's like you could see, you know, with prosthetic limbs, it's like, well, I could see this actually being a thing, you know.
Seth
00:13:19.219 - 00:13:19.707
Absolutely.
Drew
00:13:19.771 - 00:13:31.691
And so. And that. That did make the plot kind of appealing because you were like, it's fiction, but it's. And it's sci fi, but it's also a little real.
Little realistic, you know, well, ways that they did that.
Seth
00:13:31.723 - 00:13:51.529
Some of the technology in the movies actually exists in real life. The arm that would, like, gave him.
Give him the drink and give him the medicine and everything that was actually donated to them from a Canadian research lab who had, or I guess a robotics company that made these arms. And that's an actual, real thing that people with disabilities are using today.
Kyle
00:13:51.617 - 00:13:51.977
Wow.
Seth
00:13:52.041 - 00:13:52.545
Yeah.
Kyle
00:13:52.665 - 00:13:53.473
That's incredible.
Seth
00:13:53.569 - 00:13:57.521
Very intentional melding of futuristic and current technology.
Kyle
00:13:57.633 - 00:14:16.383
Wow. Everything you said just made me really angry.
Not about this movie, but it makes me angry when you look at the budgets that some of these reboots and reboots are getting and some of these new movies and, like, the fact that they can accomplish that. And we just covered American Cycle last week. That was 6 million. Like, yeah, like, what are they doing with these larger budgets?
Drew
00:14:16.439 - 00:14:28.871
You have bigger. Yeah, bigger movies with this huge astronomical budgets. And then you see what comes out of it, and you're like, where did you spend all that money?
Because it wasn't in the things that I'm looking at, you know, Exactly.
Seth
00:14:28.943 - 00:14:39.641
But I guess animation has gotten expensive. Like, weirdly, sometimes it's cheaper to go the practical route. But you're. You're. You're risking a lot more when you're going with practical effects.
Drew
00:14:39.713 - 00:15:05.521
But I also think it's something. Something that's kind of cool about all that is because we were talking.
You were talking about how this is a movie of so many different people coming together and making a good product with not a ton of resources, but you have directors that care. You have lead actors that are going to do the extra steps.
You have the smart people figuring out how we're going to make believable fight scenes with not a lot of, you know, money or prep time, you know, or shooting time.
Seth
00:15:05.553 - 00:15:10.177
It was shot in six weeks. A month and a half is all it took for them to shoot this movie.
Drew
00:15:10.241 - 00:15:23.449
And that's kind of like a word and inspiration to creatives. And like, your role, like that whole quote, like, money isn't everything.
Like, your role as a person on the project, you can do things that people can't pay for.
Seth
00:15:23.497 - 00:15:46.041
Yeah. Now, some ways they were able to save on money. They were actually able to build a lot of the same sets in one building.
They actually ended up using a shutdown school that was going to be torn down eventually. And so they had free reign to turn any of those rooms into what they want.
So that bar that he goes to, the Bone room, that was a room inside of the school that they just sat there and redressed.
Kyle
00:15:46.113 - 00:15:46.649
Wow.
Seth
00:15:46.777 - 00:16:03.883
That was the same building as that hallway when he's going into the hacker's apartment. That. The apartment and that hallway is also in the same school where he also ends up jumping down the stairs later on.
Like, all of that was filmed all in the same building. Just because they had one building with a lot of rooms.
Drew
00:16:03.979 - 00:16:04.307
Yeah.
Seth
00:16:04.371 - 00:16:13.091
So they really took everything that they could, and they were like, how are we going to maximize this money that we're spending? So they build eight sets in one building.
Kyle
00:16:13.203 - 00:16:17.691
That's amazing. Yeah, you got to do what you got to do on these small budgets, and it always makes a better product.
Seth
00:16:17.763 - 00:16:29.553
Yeah. So, yeah, that's. That's. Again, these are just a lot of the reasons why this was my number one movie, because there's.
Of that year because there are so many things that they had no money for that just went. Right.
Drew
00:16:29.689 - 00:16:30.009
Yeah.
Kyle
00:16:30.057 - 00:16:36.985
Yeah. Well, I'm glad you suggested it because it is. I was trying to. I think I texted you Guys, this.
I was trying to think about how this slid past my radar.
Seth
00:16:37.065 - 00:16:37.393
Yeah.
Kyle
00:16:37.449 - 00:16:39.605
2018 was like, babies.
Drew
00:16:41.185 - 00:16:41.569
Yeah.
Kyle
00:16:41.617 - 00:16:48.627
I only have one kid in diapers now. But at the time, I had multiple. I have four kids now. And I was like, I missed a lot of things in 2018.
Drew
00:16:48.691 - 00:16:52.523
You're like, I need one of those upgrades to take care of these babies.
Kyle
00:16:52.699 - 00:17:18.951
In fact, I left a piece of me back there in 2018. It was a war zone. But I. I watched this and was immediately.
What I was taken back by was everyone knows that, like, my favorite genre is this, what I call pop sci fi.
But it's really this action horror sci fi, which includes Terminator, Predator, you know, a lot of the Sly, you know, movies, some of the Keanu stuff, like just that genre that was like, it wasn't. So it wasn't inaccessible.
Seth
00:17:19.023 - 00:17:19.367
Yeah.
Kyle
00:17:19.431 - 00:17:44.193
You know, which. A lot of hardcore sci fi can be inaccessible to a majority of people. So when you meld Action. James Cameron stuff based on Philip K.
Dick, that's kind of my favorite. It's my vein. And this instantly took me there. The visuals.
And like I said earlier, like, the thing that this movie does well in the time zone, that it's actually capturing where we are now. It's kind of crazy. The week I watched this, Tesla just announced the robo taxi.
Drew
00:17:44.249 - 00:17:44.697
Yeah.
Kyle
00:17:44.801 - 00:17:49.209
The first vehicle that's not going to be produced with a steering wheel or pedals.
Seth
00:17:49.257 - 00:17:49.721
Yeah.
Kyle
00:17:49.833 - 00:17:54.525
And then that car. Yeah. That's my dream car to never drive again.
Drew
00:17:55.305 - 00:18:02.001
I would love that. But also, like, I kind of feel like Will Smith and iRobot, who's like, I don't trust all that technology.
Seth
00:18:02.153 - 00:18:16.883
Fun little tidbit. The year this came out, I was actually hired to go film at a transit conference over at the Opry Mill or Opryland Hotel.
And one of those days, I got to spend six straight hours on a fully autonomous bus.
Kyle
00:18:16.979 - 00:18:17.419
Wow.
Seth
00:18:17.507 - 00:18:34.021
Because we were filming interviews for people involved in the tech companies who created the bus.
So I literally, before anyone really even knew autonomous cars were a thing, I had spent an entire day just sitting watching this autonomous car hit every single point in the parking lot. It was supposed to every single time.
Kyle
00:18:34.053 - 00:18:35.077
And you survived.
Seth
00:18:35.261 - 00:18:38.781
We even. We would have people walk out in front of it and it would just stop.
Drew
00:18:38.853 - 00:18:50.373
Did you see Upgrade before or after that? Thank God. After. I was like, I would not. If I just saw Upgrade the night before and they're, yeah, get on this autonomous boss.
I'd be like, no, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth
00:18:50.389 - 00:18:51.461
It was a few months later.
Kyle
00:18:51.573 - 00:19:10.561
But yeah, yeah. The thing that this really. It was really resonant.
And I have a category for this later, but this idea of, like, the reason I loved, like, not only watching films based on Philip K. Dick, you know, like Blade Runners based on, you know, do. What does it do? And. Oh, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? Is that what they call?
Yeah, I always mix up the title. The Android. Yeah. It's a weird title.
Drew
00:19:10.593 - 00:19:12.017
That's exactly what. Good job.
Kyle
00:19:12.081 - 00:19:15.473
His titles were always really long. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? And then.
Seth
00:19:15.569 - 00:19:16.849
Don't worry, they'll correct you in the comments.
Drew
00:19:16.897 - 00:19:19.765
Oh, yeah, the Deftones.
Kyle
00:19:20.105 - 00:19:37.747
Deftones. Total Recall was based on. We'll. We'll remember it for you wholesale, which is a short story.
And what he captured so well, and which is crazy to think that, like, when he wrote Minority Report, I think it was either in 58 or 62. It was between 58 and 65. Think about that. Think about what he was predicting.
Seth
00:19:37.811 - 00:19:38.251
Yeah.
Kyle
00:19:38.363 - 00:19:50.763
And his. So much of his.
Of what he thinks about and wrote about was about this bridge between where humanity starts to veer into a completely technologically enabled society and the pain that would bring.
Seth
00:19:50.819 - 00:19:51.339
Yeah.
Kyle
00:19:51.467 - 00:20:01.773
And this movie instantly tapped into that vein. I would be very surprised if someone on set or someone making the film was not reading Philip K. Dick or.
Or watching Total Recall or something, because it really.
Seth
00:20:01.869 - 00:20:11.813
I mean, just knowing the depth of Lee Whannell's writing, I'm. I guarantee you he was at least inspired by things that were inspired by it if he wasn't directly inspired by them.
Kyle
00:20:11.909 - 00:20:17.381
Yeah, I loved it. It definitely transported me back there. So I loved it for that reason. So it was a lot of fun. I'm glad you suggested it.
Seth
00:20:17.453 - 00:20:18.709
Somebody didn't like it that much.
Drew
00:20:18.757 - 00:20:19.125
Okay.
Kyle
00:20:19.205 - 00:20:24.345
Somebody. Somebody named who lives their life a quarter mile at a time.
Drew
00:20:25.245 - 00:21:15.189
I love it more when I don't have to use my catchphrase. Okay, I will say I loved what you just shared. And it makes me have a bigger appreciation for the movie that. That part.
Like, when I watched it, a couple things. One, like, going into it, people said, like. And then I saw exactly what they meant. They're like, oh, it's basically the storyline of Venom.
And that as soon as I got, like, within the first fight scene where he gives permission to take over, I was like, oh, I see what they're saying now. Like. And so, like, it. What. What was kind of entertaining to me was it was like the same plot line of Venom.
And I think both movies came out in 2018 instead of an alien symbiote you had a technological piece controlling it, but still talking to you the way Venom would talk to Tom Hardy. And the fact that this actor has a striking resemblance to Tom Hardy.
Seth
00:21:15.237 - 00:21:16.733
He looks so much like Tom Hardy.
Kyle
00:21:16.789 - 00:21:17.885
Discount story. Tom Hardy.
Drew
00:21:17.925 - 00:21:45.443
I felt like. I felt like I was watching Kmart. Venom is what I felt like. I was like. And it was. And it was like, it was. The overall. The plot was, like, okay to me.
I didn't. I didn't find myself particularly drawn to any of the characters. I didn't.
I didn't find myself, like, just at the edge of my seat with the plot over, like, so, like, it was like, an okay movie. I will say all of that did change at the very end.
Seth
00:21:45.499 - 00:21:46.011
Yeah.
Drew
00:21:46.123 - 00:21:58.975
Because what. I like movies. So, again, I don't. I say this plenty of times in this podcast. I'm not a guy that knows things. I don't care. I watch movies to enjoy.
I just. Is. Do I enjoy the storyline?
Seth
00:21:59.015 - 00:22:00.775
Why one of us actually enjoyed Wicked Prince.
Kyle
00:22:00.815 - 00:22:00.991
Yeah.
Drew
00:22:01.023 - 00:22:39.947
Is it fun? Yeah. So, absolutely. So, like, there's, you know, do you have a good time watching the movie? And then if.
For the bad movies, And I'm just like, yeah, it was fun to watch or, like, if it's a good storyline. So that's another factor for me for a good movie is, did it tell? Like, you know, we just reviewed American Psycho. That one makes you think.
Well, after watching the movie, to me, that makes it a good movie. What made this a good movie? To me, where I would categorize as, like, it was fine because I didn't love it the whole time. But the. What I would.
But I'd still say it's a good movie because the end ended in a way that we don't do that often, which is, for all practical purposes, the bad guy won.
Seth
00:22:40.011 - 00:22:40.491
Yeah.
Drew
00:22:40.603 - 00:23:02.035
There was, like, I had to think, once the movie ended, did I just see that? Did I understand what just happened? And I replayed it in my head a couple times. Like, no, I did. Yeah.
And that was highly interesting to me that they put. I mean, like, it was so unsatisfying the way it ended, but in a good way. In, like, a fun way.
Seth
00:23:02.075 - 00:23:07.787
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're pissed, but you're, like, excited that you're pissed because it's actually something unique that's happening.
Drew
00:23:07.811 - 00:23:07.947
Yeah.
Kyle
00:23:07.971 - 00:23:08.915
And the shit's gonna go down.
Seth
00:23:08.955 - 00:23:09.131
Yeah.
Drew
00:23:09.163 - 00:23:15.125
It made you feel something like, I hate that that's how it ended. But that was a good ending. That is a way that storyline could have ended.
Seth
00:23:15.195 - 00:23:18.129
He also has no intention of making a sequel at the moment.
Kyle
00:23:18.217 - 00:23:19.521
So I like that.
Drew
00:23:19.673 - 00:23:24.209
I don't think it needs a sequel. I don't. I don't need. I don't think we need a more upgraded.
Seth
00:23:24.297 - 00:23:30.473
It would be cool to see more of that world, in my opinion, But I don't think we would need a direct sequel to find out what happened.
Drew
00:23:30.649 - 00:23:45.207
Maybe a prequel where it tells the story of what happened to either the main. Kind of the main villain, like the younger guy who, like the Elon Musk type person, or the.
Even the other dude who, like, seemed to have some technological advances.
Seth
00:23:45.351 - 00:24:31.763
Yeah. So the director talks quite a bit about that whole thing because he actually talked about how that.
That top henchman guy, he based the look of him on, like, your average militia kind of enthusiast in this country, like, dresses a little nice, but there's something a little off about him. And he.
He said the reason he did that is because the group that he's with, which is a very multicultural group visually, they're all the racist ones because they all have technological upgrades. They all have those guns in there in their arms.
He has the thing in his eye where he has X ray vision and he can zoom into things like that becomes the new social. Racism is. Oh, you don't have any implants. You don't have any upgrades done. Well, then you're a piece of shit.
Drew
00:24:31.819 - 00:24:32.363
Yeah.
Seth
00:24:32.499 - 00:24:38.579
So, yeah, that. Definitely. That would be very fascinating to kind of see that transition for some of those guys.
Drew
00:24:38.627 - 00:24:51.867
It'd be an interesting world to build a little bit. I will say my favorite parts of the movie were the. The ending. I thought that was a shocking ending. It was good.
And then the point kind of where he tortures the guy to, like, where he's.
Seth
00:24:51.891 - 00:24:52.675
With the knife.
Drew
00:24:52.795 - 00:25:09.197
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, and. And it's like where he gives. But then he's like, we have to go, you know, you have to go find the hacker to get me out of this.
Yeah, like, that part was like an interesting part of the storyline. Yeah, the rest of it. The rest of it was a little bit rinse and repeat as far as those kind of movies.
Seth
00:25:09.301 - 00:25:19.381
Sure. I will say that I think. I think the thing that blew my mind and everybody's mind was that OG fight scene where he first gives himself over to Stan.
Drew
00:25:19.413 - 00:25:25.461
Yeah, that was a. That was a good. That was a good scene. It really had Matrix vibes to me. Which you said he was the director of or. No, he was.
Seth
00:25:25.493 - 00:25:42.955
He was an actor in Matrix Resurrection. Yeah, yeah. But we will. We'll get into the cool technical Aspects of that in the Randos.
But, yeah, that was when they premiered because it won the audience choice award at south by Southwest. And all the reviews that came out after that were just praising that fight.
Kyle
00:25:43.455 - 00:25:45.759
Have you been practicing saying rando? Are you going to be ready?
Seth
00:25:45.807 - 00:25:46.423
We're not there yet.
Kyle
00:25:46.479 - 00:25:49.079
I know we're not, but I have. Did you look in the mirror?
Seth
00:25:49.127 - 00:25:49.415
Oh, yeah.
Kyle
00:25:49.455 - 00:25:50.711
Did you get deep in your chest?
Drew
00:25:50.783 - 00:25:52.063
Did you look deep within?
Kyle
00:25:52.159 - 00:25:53.365
Did you like deep within?
Seth
00:25:53.535 - 00:25:55.569
And then I practice the randos. Yeah. I love it.
Kyle
00:25:55.617 - 00:26:33.143
I love it. Speaking of rant, or speaking of upgrade, do your friends need an upgrade to their podcast listening experience?
Oh, oh, I know what you're saying to yourself. I've got friends that they listen to the shittiest podcast on the planet.
They listen to the news, politics, they listen to all kinds of bad shit, but they don't listen to Movie Wars. Your friend is lost. Your friend is behind.
There is a social form of racism that we're going to talk about today, and that form is them not listening to Movie Wars. You don't want your friend to be lesser. You don't want them to be down on the totem pole. You want them listening to Movie War.
So if you want to upgrade their life, upgrade their existence, make them more likable, more dates, more money, more everything, send them Movie Wars.
Seth
00:26:33.199 - 00:26:36.383
Don't be racist and watch three white guys review movies.
Kyle
00:26:36.479 - 00:26:38.475
I'm Filipino, but I look very white.
Drew
00:26:39.175 - 00:26:43.927
Maybe upgrade yourself as a friend and recommend them Movie Wars. I think that's a good friend.
Kyle
00:26:43.991 - 00:26:49.599
Do a little self upgrading. Yeah, yeah. Find your truth, as they say at the kids, find. Yeah, yeah, whatever.
Drew
00:26:49.647 - 00:26:50.949
I'm going to tell you your truth.
Kyle
00:26:51.047 - 00:26:56.241
Which is nice, which is send your stupid friends Movie Wars. All right. Love you.
Seth
00:26:56.273 - 00:26:57.217
And the Deftones.
Kyle
00:26:57.321 - 00:27:05.153
And the Deftones. If you don't know what I'm talking about, check Instagram. All right, the questions. Here we go. So let me get this straight.
Seth
00:27:05.209 - 00:27:05.805
Yeah.
Kyle
00:27:06.265 - 00:27:08.985
Fisk again. I like this movie a lot.
Seth
00:27:09.025 - 00:27:09.553
Yeah.
Kyle
00:27:09.689 - 00:27:22.815
But something bothers me here. Fisk is fully upgraded, right? He's got the eye thing, the breath thing, the gun. Sticking with the perv stache, though. Yeah, fully upgraded.
Keeping the perv station. Explain this to me.
Seth
00:27:22.855 - 00:27:27.727
We had to bring something from the 80s into a movie that was a tribute to the 80s.
Kyle
00:27:27.831 - 00:27:34.847
It is true. It is true. If I'm going to brag on this for being a great Testament to the 80s, I can't criticize it. That definitely was.
Drew
00:27:35.031 - 00:27:36.703
Just makes him look more menacing.
Kyle
00:27:36.799 - 00:27:41.567
Well, yeah, it looked like Bennett from Commando. Yeah, yeah, it definitely had that played in by the great Vernon Wells.
Seth
00:27:41.631 - 00:27:43.095
But it made you feel a little off, right?
Kyle
00:27:43.135 - 00:27:43.879
It was a little off.
Seth
00:27:43.927 - 00:27:52.543
That's the point. Yeah, that was, that was the whole like literally everything down to his hairstyle. That was the design of the director.
He wanted him to look that way just to be a little off putting.
Kyle
00:27:52.599 - 00:27:52.815
Yeah.
Drew
00:27:52.855 - 00:28:03.031
Or what if he just found the perfect actor who looked off pitting and instead of saying, that's why we want you, he's like, no, I see something in you. I see something on you. The mustache. Really? That's what I see on you.
Seth
00:28:03.063 - 00:28:04.655
I want that caterpillar that's on your face.
Kyle
00:28:04.695 - 00:28:18.375
Yeah, yeah. It's very. It's a mustache that. It's not a Hitler stache. But it also hasn't covered enough ground necessarily.
I always get worried when it doesn't hit the corner of the lip. And granted, this is all I can grow. I haven't shaved in two weeks. This is all I can.
Drew
00:28:18.405 - 00:28:18.907
I have.
Kyle
00:28:19.011 - 00:28:26.099
I'm not like a sp. I don't have a beard like you, but when it doesn't quite get here, I get a little weird, I get a little worried, a little weary.
Drew
00:28:26.267 - 00:28:28.011
It's not world dictatorship.
Kyle
00:28:28.083 - 00:28:33.539
Yeah, yeah. So you. But you're saying with that, with that fact about the clothing, like, so that's why he's wearing a polo. He's like wearing nice polo.
Seth
00:28:33.587 - 00:28:54.451
Why he's wearing a polo. That's why he has the tactical vest or belt, I should say.
And the like, the specific like khaki slacks that he was wearing, like in the, in the combat boots. Like, he, he's, he's like your ex military kind of guy.
He, he has the training, he knows how to be ready for situations, but he's also trying to blend into a normal crowd.
Drew
00:28:54.643 - 00:28:59.155
Or he's like the southern guy that's. Has very strong opinions about gun control.
Kyle
00:28:59.235 - 00:29:00.939
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Drew
00:29:00.987 - 00:29:02.499
It's like, come and take him.
Kyle
00:29:02.587 - 00:29:05.147
Yeah. Confiscate this. It's in my arm.
Seth
00:29:05.211 - 00:29:06.335
Take my arm.
Kyle
00:29:06.955 - 00:29:18.013
That actually leads to my next question. All these upgrades. And again, I know you love this movie. I love this movie. I don't want you to think I'm shitting on it. The eye upgrade's awesome.
The breath thing, that's cool.
Drew
00:29:18.069 - 00:29:18.637
Yeah.
Kyle
00:29:18.781 - 00:29:29.733
But do you feel like it's a little weird to put the gun in the arm? It's like that we're not only sticking with an ancient technology, but we're going to stick the ancient technique.
Maybe that was the first version, though.
Seth
00:29:29.749 - 00:29:31.245
This is only 30 years away from now.
Kyle
00:29:31.325 - 00:29:31.781
Yeah.
Seth
00:29:31.893 - 00:29:35.333
It's not supposed to be that far in the future where we have laser weapons.
Kyle
00:29:35.429 - 00:29:37.845
Maybe that was the first thing they did, was we're going to put guns in.
Drew
00:29:37.885 - 00:29:40.091
We're going to start with some guns, and then we'll give you some.
Kyle
00:29:40.173 - 00:29:40.671
Yeah.
Seth
00:29:40.783 - 00:29:43.471
Clearly taking some inspiration from Assassin's Creed.
Kyle
00:29:43.543 - 00:29:43.839
Yes.
Seth
00:29:43.887 - 00:29:53.623
Like, clearly. That's the. I mean, that's a good way to hide it. You get to keep it underneath your coat. No one's going to see it.
You never look like you're packing, and then when you need to use it, you just cock it and you're ready to go.
Kyle
00:29:53.679 - 00:29:54.047
Yeah.
Drew
00:29:54.111 - 00:30:01.375
Also, it's more menacing if you need to threaten someone but not kill them. What are you going to do? Show them your eye and your breath? Are you going to pull out a gun from your arm?
Seth
00:30:01.455 - 00:30:02.727
Well, the breath did kill the guy.
Drew
00:30:02.791 - 00:30:07.951
I mean. Yeah. But, like, if I'm. Before I kill you, if I want to threaten you, to give me information.
Seth
00:30:08.063 - 00:30:08.573
Yeah.
Drew
00:30:08.679 - 00:30:11.233
What am I gonna do? Like, don't make me breathe on you.
Seth
00:30:11.289 - 00:30:19.645
Yeah. Also, how terrifying would it be for a guy to grab you by the throat and then just stick his wrist in your face and that's when you see the barrel.
Kyle
00:30:20.785 - 00:30:24.113
Yeah. Do you think they get any powder burns or anything on the flesh around the gun?
Seth
00:30:24.169 - 00:30:24.625
Probably.
Kyle
00:30:24.745 - 00:30:27.073
I'm really interested in the logistics of this arm gun.
Seth
00:30:27.129 - 00:30:28.513
Yeah. I. You know.
Drew
00:30:28.569 - 00:30:28.849
Yeah.
Seth
00:30:28.897 - 00:30:35.505
Lee1L. If you watch this, let us know. We'd love to interview you and ask you about the random facts about your little world you created.
Kyle
00:30:35.585 - 00:30:43.681
Yeah. And now, one thing I do appreciate, even though I'm kind of, like, making fun of it, I do like that they went full circle. You reload the arm.
That was actually a cool touch.
Seth
00:30:43.793 - 00:30:54.657
So that.
That fun little tidbit about that, the way he did that was he had one shell and he did the magician trick of putting it out, and then when he looked like he was sliding in, he was really putting it back in his hand.
Kyle
00:30:54.761 - 00:30:55.273
Oh, wow.
Seth
00:30:55.329 - 00:31:00.183
Yeah. It looked like he had four bullets in his hand, but no, it was just one that he kept using to reload.
Kyle
00:31:00.289 - 00:31:01.975
I love the Lower the budget.
Seth
00:31:02.395 - 00:31:08.619
Yes. Like I said, there's just. For me, it was all the little things that made this movie so incredible.
Kyle
00:31:08.667 - 00:31:12.835
Yeah. And considering what you talked about, the budget and, like, the limited resources, like, they really.
Seth
00:31:12.915 - 00:31:13.171
Yeah.
Kyle
00:31:13.203 - 00:31:14.363
They really knocked it out of the park.
Seth
00:31:14.419 - 00:31:14.963
Yeah.
Kyle
00:31:15.099 - 00:31:15.971
Are you ready to say it?
Seth
00:31:16.003 - 00:31:16.651
Is it time?
Kyle
00:31:16.723 - 00:31:22.835
Are you ready to say it? Randall Randos, well done. Well done, sir.
Drew
00:31:22.955 - 00:31:23.571
That was.
Kyle
00:31:23.683 - 00:31:25.515
This is a big Moment. Movie wars history.
Drew
00:31:25.635 - 00:31:29.809
Talk about a Movie wars upgrade, am I right? That was mean.
Seth
00:31:29.897 - 00:32:00.963
So two weeks ago I went off on a little rant about opening credits in modern movies because I absolutely normally abhor them. American Psycho gets a pass for me because it was pre 2005. That was still the style of moviemaking and they made it interesting.
So yeah, it was fine with me. However, this is the only movie in existence as of the time it was made and I think the commentary was 2023. So it might have been same last year.
The only movie where the opening credits are spoken and not shown on screen in any way.
Kyle
00:32:01.099 - 00:32:01.539
Really?
Seth
00:32:01.627 - 00:32:16.403
Yeah, because at the very beginning they have that robot voice which also fun fact, that was the voice of the car, the self driving car later on. But that was the first time and possibly the only time still that all the opening credits were not shown on screen and were just audio. Audio.
Kyle
00:32:16.499 - 00:32:17.283
Oh yeah.
Drew
00:32:17.339 - 00:32:18.459
I did not even notice.
Kyle
00:32:18.547 - 00:32:19.315
Yeah, it's kind of cool.
Drew
00:32:19.355 - 00:32:23.877
Yeah, I think I'm going to go back and rewatch that just to see what it's like because I didn't pick up on it one bit.
Seth
00:32:23.941 - 00:32:34.677
Yeah, it's just real quick and you kind of don't really think about it. But yeah, it's like a computer voice. It's just like so and so Presents Blumhouse Productions upgrade. And then that's how the movie starts.
Drew
00:32:34.741 - 00:32:44.493
Oh, okay. Well, that, that makes sense why I missed it.
I was thinking there was a computer voice as the opening scene was going on, listing all the names of the people in it. I'm like, I'm pretty sure I would have remembered that.
Seth
00:32:44.589 - 00:32:57.285
But yeah, so that's amazing little tidbit there. This is just a stupid one for me, so don't even feel free to respond. But the gun used to paralyze Joel was actually a Duck Hunt gun painted gray.
Kyle
00:32:57.405 - 00:32:57.757
Really?
Seth
00:32:57.821 - 00:33:02.773
From the Nintendo game og Nintendo Duck Hunt gun that they cut the cable off of and painted gray.
Drew
00:33:02.869 - 00:33:12.669
I think I might have had a thought about that when I saw that because I think it made me think of like I. I didn't identify Duck Hunt, but I was identifying like old school Nintendo.
Seth
00:33:12.717 - 00:34:15.621
Yeah. So that was just a little fun one for me.
The director, Lee Whannell was originally involved with other production companies that actually wanted to go with a much higher budget. I think the highest budget he was quoted was like $40 million. So he could have gone that direction.
But as that was going on, he thought it was taking way too long for them to get their shit together.
None of the bigger Companies could decide on where it would be filmed or let him, like, how much control he would have based on how much money they gave him.
So he ended up just going with Blumhouse because, like I was saying earlier, he wanted to have this big concept, but specifically, specifically, purposefully, low budget project. When he landed with them, he felt they took better risks with the horror genre. Every.
I mean, I haven't actually seen any of the Jordan Peele movies, but every person I've talked to has said that they take everything we know about horror and just turn it into a weird thing that you haven't seen before. So he loved the way that they did that and so that's why he wanted to go with them.
I think it definitely adds to the indie film without feeling unrealistic.
Kyle
00:34:15.813 - 00:34:29.309
Yeah, yeah, No, I love it. Yeah. And the reputation since 2018 has grown tremendously. Like, I know people. Like, we have a comedian.
I want to say her name here, but we have a comedian friend that's like obsessed with those films. Oh, nice. Yeah. Like it's their.
Drew
00:34:29.357 - 00:34:29.589
Their.
Kyle
00:34:29.637 - 00:34:33.077
They went from being kind of like an indie thing to like having a lot of recognition.
Seth
00:34:33.141 - 00:34:54.349
Yeah. But they still stick with low budgets on purpose because for them it's. It's kind of like we were.
We were saying, it's like you don't want to get too bogged down in spending all this money on digital effects companies. You want to keep it in these containable universes where, yeah, there are these huge concepts, but you're not going so far out.
The audiences disconnect.
Drew
00:34:54.437 - 00:34:57.949
Right. Because you still want your people to relate to this overall story.
Seth
00:34:58.037 - 00:34:58.517
Exactly.
Kyle
00:34:58.581 - 00:34:58.973
Right.
Seth
00:34:59.069 - 00:35:43.693
So I think that was really cool that he very purposefully chose a budget basically 10 times less than what he was offered to make this movie.
So I love that the futuristic cars were actually one 1983 Honda Accord that they stripped down to the motor and the chassis and then physically built the new car on top of it. However, you couldn't see from the inside out.
In fact, the times that they showed them inside of the car was actually a set that they built that was not the actual car.
But that means that the guys driving the cars in the scenes where it's driving, like behind the muscle car that he finished, they're literally driving blind with directions given to them through a walkie talkie.
Kyle
00:35:43.789 - 00:35:45.061
Huh. That's amazing.
Drew
00:35:45.133 - 00:35:45.573
That's fun.
Seth
00:35:45.629 - 00:35:49.109
Like, the stunt crew went above and beyond to do whatever they could for this.
Kyle
00:35:49.157 - 00:35:51.025
Did anybody get run over now?
Seth
00:35:52.085 - 00:35:55.773
No. No injuries on that front. As far as I could Tell that.
Drew
00:35:55.909 - 00:36:04.435
Yeah, that is a weird. Like, imagine sitting down, having that conversation with your stunt actor, your actors and like, hey, so here's what we need you to do.
Roll with me on this one.
Seth
00:36:04.475 - 00:36:11.083
Yeah, we're going to tell you when to turn and how much to turn, but you're going to. You got to kind of translate that correctly.
Kyle
00:36:11.259 - 00:36:14.411
That'd be a nightmare for you. I hate driving already.
Drew
00:36:14.523 - 00:36:23.067
And you can see I would hate every moment. I would. That. Would. That. That might. Yeah. If hell exists. That's it.
Kyle
00:36:23.211 - 00:36:24.243
Blindfolded driving.
Seth
00:36:24.299 - 00:36:24.467
Yeah.
Kyle
00:36:24.491 - 00:36:26.375
Just even at five miles an hour.
Seth
00:36:27.445 - 00:36:41.997
Fun little fact in the hallway which we talked about was the school that they turned into all of this stuff. But in the hallway leading up to the hacker's apartment, I don't know if you noticed, but there was a Jigsaw puppet graffiti on one of the walls.
Kyle
00:36:42.061 - 00:36:42.333
Really?
Seth
00:36:42.389 - 00:36:51.005
And then on another wall there was J. Wan graffitied onto the wall. Because he worked very, very good friends with James Wan, who did the Saw movies.
Kyle
00:36:51.045 - 00:36:51.245
Yeah.
Drew
00:36:51.285 - 00:36:52.845
And Fast and Furious 7.
Seth
00:36:52.925 - 00:36:53.399
Yeah.
Drew
00:36:53.517 - 00:36:56.139
He best of the franchise.
Seth
00:36:56.227 - 00:37:18.891
He had to get permission to use the Jigsaw picture even though it was drawn by one of their artists. And on the commentary he's literally like. Because you know who doesn't own the copyrights to Saw? Me. You know who does own the copyrights of Saw?
James Wan. So he literally said that he called him and he made him wait a whole four minutes before he responded to the email.
Kyle
00:37:19.003 - 00:37:23.171
Wow, that's incredible. Now I got to go back and watch that. Yeah, that's so crazy.
Seth
00:37:23.283 - 00:37:32.139
I didn't see it. And like I've seen this movie five or six times before. I watched it with the commentary.
And then in the commentary, sitting there, he was like, oh yeah, there's Jigsaw over there. And I was like, what?
Kyle
00:37:32.227 - 00:37:34.051
Yeah, so that's amazing.
Seth
00:37:34.123 - 00:38:27.195
Yeah, great. Little, little fun little bit there. So we got two more. This one is perhaps my favorite part of the movie. And that is the.
The way the camera locks in on our lead character whenever. And it's obviously not the whole time.
They were very particular about when they use this effect, but the very first time he's able to walk with stem, they have that camera locked movement. And then every time during the fight scenes you have those moments too.
I was very curious how they were going to do that on a five million dollar budget. Apparently all they did was developed a quick little app for an iPhone to be a tracker for the digital dolly that they use.
And they physically taped the phone to the actor's body and it would be used so that the camera was going to move in the exact same way the phone was facing.
Drew
00:38:27.275 - 00:38:28.787
Wow, that's really smart.
Seth
00:38:28.891 - 00:38:39.139
So literally, for probably $200 to pay someone to develop the quick little app, that's how they got such an expensive, insane looking camera.
Kyle
00:38:39.187 - 00:38:48.093
Style it everywhere. Now they use it for NFL commercials. Like they have like a footage of Bijan Robinson running and it's only focused on him and it's really trippy.
Like it's everywhere.
Seth
00:38:48.149 - 00:38:48.997
All because of Upgrade.
Kyle
00:38:49.061 - 00:38:49.333
Wow.
Seth
00:38:49.389 - 00:39:20.063
And that was. That was a development of what is called a Snorri Cam. Very much made famous in Requiem for a Dream, which you will see eventually.
But those shots where they basically strap the camera to the front of the actor and the actor carries the camera, that's where it kind of developed from. It's started with that idea, but they took it to, in my opinion, just a whole new level with these fights.
Like the way that he was literally doing a backflip and he was still just in the middle of the frame the entire time. Like technicality. Part of that just. It blows my mind.
Kyle
00:39:20.119 - 00:39:27.895
It was absolutely my favorite thing about this movie were those scenes. Like, I just. They like. It was so nice to see something that was a differentiator, something creative, new, innovative.
Drew
00:39:27.975 - 00:39:28.399
Yeah.
Kyle
00:39:28.487 - 00:39:30.943
After a slew of crow films.
Seth
00:39:31.039 - 00:39:31.743
Exactly.
Drew
00:39:31.879 - 00:39:33.623
Talk about a film upgrade, am I right?
Kyle
00:39:33.679 - 00:39:34.971
Yeah, talk about it.
Seth
00:39:35.063 - 00:39:42.259
But yeah, he wanted specifically to use that to make you realize that that's when Stem was in charge of the body.
Kyle
00:39:42.347 - 00:39:42.683
Okay.
Seth
00:39:42.739 - 00:39:43.603
And I think they did a really.
Drew
00:39:43.619 - 00:39:53.171
Good job at balancing how often that's like. That's one of those things that I'm. As you say it, I'm realizing I noticed it whenever Stem was talking about. It did have a different.
Seth
00:39:53.243 - 00:39:53.627
Yep.
Drew
00:39:53.691 - 00:39:54.907
Did have a different feel.
Seth
00:39:55.011 - 00:40:09.369
And it really showcases at the very end when Stem is fully taken over his body, every step that he makes. And I think there's maybe two shots where you can see him in that mode.
Both of those shots fully use that effect because they wanted to get that across.
Kyle
00:40:09.457 - 00:40:11.009
Yeah, I love that.
Seth
00:40:11.057 - 00:40:11.305
Yeah.
Kyle
00:40:11.345 - 00:40:14.289
I was wondering. I was hoping you were going to talk about that because I was really curious.
Seth
00:40:14.377 - 00:41:16.755
That, as a filmmaker, just blows my mind. And then we've got one final one. Just a quick one. Rendo, the director, really wanted to put nature into this futuristic world.
He wanted the technology to be based on nature. And that's why on a lot of the screens you'll see like honeycomb shapes. That's why there's all sorts of plants and stuff.
All throughout the modern houses. The Elon Musk characters house, that was a set, their house at the very beginning, the interior of that, that was a set.
And they did that because they knew you weren't going to be able to redress someone's house to look correct that way or else it's going to be really expensive. So they did that with the idea of having nature be a part of the design of the entire world with the tech itself.
Like I said, he wanted it all also to look like it was very integrated into daily life.
So, like when he's looking through the guy's coffee table that has the computer in it, that's why there's shit all over it, is because it's a functional coffee table that just happens to be able to tell you your emails.
Drew
00:41:16.835 - 00:41:19.091
Yeah, I would love that coffee table.
Seth
00:41:19.163 - 00:41:20.255
That would be so nice.
Kyle
00:41:20.675 - 00:41:22.091
Yeah, I love that, man.
Seth
00:41:22.163 - 00:41:22.395
Yeah.
Kyle
00:41:22.435 - 00:41:29.239
I noticed the plant especially in the. We keep calling the Elon Musk. I can't remember his name now. Was it Aaron?
Seth
00:41:29.367 - 00:41:29.935
I think so.
Kyle
00:41:29.975 - 00:41:35.303
I think it's Aaron. But yeah, I love the plantation and stuff like that. That was really cool. That was an interesting touch.
Seth
00:41:35.359 - 00:41:35.687
Yeah.
Kyle
00:41:35.751 - 00:41:44.639
And also. Probably also lends back to the fact that this is like, it's a fuck. I've had one of those every episode.
Seth
00:41:44.687 - 00:41:45.703
Yeah. Not last one.
Kyle
00:41:45.759 - 00:41:48.075
It's a society in transition.
Drew
00:41:49.295 - 00:41:52.071
I think that's how you need to talk society.
Kyle
00:41:52.143 - 00:41:53.823
And I need to spray my mouth.
Drew
00:41:53.919 - 00:41:55.415
It sounds like stem has already taken.
Kyle
00:41:55.455 - 00:41:58.363
You over coffee on mine.
Seth
00:41:58.459 - 00:42:08.419
What is funny to me is that the movie set in America filmed in Australia. But they did such a good job at like, finding the one guy in town that had all the American cars.
Kyle
00:42:08.467 - 00:42:08.947
Yeah.
Seth
00:42:09.011 - 00:42:15.363
And they used his cars in when any of the regular cars were there so that they could make it feel like it was shot in America.
Drew
00:42:15.419 - 00:42:18.747
I mean, I really had no idea it was. It was Australia. Australian film.
Seth
00:42:18.811 - 00:42:28.679
Well, that's because they were also very particular about, like, the XT exteriors that they shot because they didn't want it to be kind of like tied down to one specific location.
Kyle
00:42:28.847 - 00:42:34.031
Did either of you guys watch this? Feeling like this is where we are currently. Like, we're on the verge.
Seth
00:42:34.103 - 00:42:36.591
Yeah. I think we're probably 10, 15 years away from.
Drew
00:42:36.623 - 00:42:44.887
Yeah. I mean, like, that's kind of what made the, like, it feel like a enjoyable plotline to watch is like I could see this happening.
Seth
00:42:44.951 - 00:42:45.215
Yeah.
Kyle
00:42:45.255 - 00:42:46.295
Like, it felt a little too real.
Drew
00:42:46.335 - 00:42:46.799
Yeah.
Seth
00:42:46.927 - 00:42:52.129
But like I said, in 2018, he was setting it 20, 30 years in the future. And I think we're on track for that.
Kyle
00:42:52.217 - 00:42:58.185
That's what great sci fi does. And that's another reason I love some of those. Like, Total Recall. Feels like a no duh now.
Seth
00:42:58.225 - 00:42:58.657
Yeah.
Kyle
00:42:58.761 - 00:43:02.153
It's just like implanting memories in your mind. It's like, that's nothing now.
Seth
00:43:02.249 - 00:43:03.073
Exactly.
Kyle
00:43:03.249 - 00:43:05.281
So shall we upgrade?
Drew
00:43:05.473 - 00:43:06.113
Let's upgrade.
Kyle
00:43:06.169 - 00:43:07.849
Shall we get malware?
Drew
00:43:08.017 - 00:43:09.585
Oh, so it's upgraded malware.
Kyle
00:43:09.705 - 00:43:12.245
Shall we get fisky with each other?
Drew
00:43:12.705 - 00:43:13.233
Get it.
Kyle
00:43:13.289 - 00:43:22.513
Fisk mustache. Fisk top Bill. Cast. I would just say Logan Marshall Green here because even his wife was very in the background.
Seth
00:43:22.569 - 00:43:24.097
Well, I would also say Stem, though.
Kyle
00:43:24.201 - 00:43:30.937
Yeah, okay. Yeah, the voice. Well, Hal, he gave me major Hal Vibes, by the way. From Space. From, you know, A Space Odyssey.
Seth
00:43:31.001 - 00:43:34.845
Absolutely. Yeah. But I would definitely say they're. They're the two leads of the film.
Kyle
00:43:35.345 - 00:43:39.097
And if it's yes, it's an upgrade. If it's no, it's a downgrade.
Drew
00:43:39.201 - 00:43:39.969
Okay.
Seth
00:43:40.137 - 00:43:59.725
My idea. That was me. You own this thing 100% upgrade. Like, yeah.
Especially because I would have said this even before I did all the research, but knowing the dedication he had in basically the two months before they even filmed of doing nothing but prepare. See, now I'm doing it, preparing for this role.
Drew
00:43:59.805 - 00:44:01.373
And you guys need to learn how to speak.
Seth
00:44:01.429 - 00:44:01.861
I know.
Kyle
00:44:01.933 - 00:44:03.013
Need an upgrade over here.
Seth
00:44:03.069 - 00:44:08.373
Yeah, but no, 100%. That's. That's an upgrade. Like, he absolutely murdered it.
Drew
00:44:08.469 - 00:44:31.255
I agree. I'll give him an upgrade. Especially with the context that you were sharing about how much work he went into it.
But even before then, I was one thing that impressed me about his. His performance was when he was learning how to walk. Or not so much when he was learning.
When he was upgraded and he was starting to walk on his own like, that he really sold the whole, like, I'm getting my limbs back.
Seth
00:44:31.335 - 00:44:31.863
Absolutely.
Drew
00:44:31.919 - 00:44:43.131
And, like.
And like, I know earlier I said I wasn't too captivated by, like, the plot and the dialogue between people, but, like, that's not to be mistaken that, like, I thought he did a good job acting.
Seth
00:44:43.203 - 00:44:43.739
Yeah.
Kyle
00:44:43.867 - 00:45:10.003
Yeah, definitely. I thought it was interesting. So, by the way, Stem, voiced by Simon Maiden, Australian actor, was the person that voiced. Did a great job. I. At first.
And I loved that Logan Marshall Green was getting a shot because Prometheus is one of my favorite movies. I love it. And I was nice. It was nice to see him get a shot in a lead role. I'm not going to lie. At the beginning, it felt a little dry.
But then I saw there was a reason for that, because he was fixing it into a world where he's an everyman.
Seth
00:45:10.099 - 00:45:10.739
Yeah.
Kyle
00:45:10.907 - 00:45:21.331
In a world where every men are now looked down upon. When you said the racism element, that actually really clicked with me because I was like.
I didn't necessarily call it racism but there definitely was a superiority complex that had occurred with technology.
Drew
00:45:21.443 - 00:45:22.971
Former prejudice. Yeah.
Kyle
00:45:23.083 - 00:45:30.835
And this is a guy, he's a mechanic, he's an everyman, he's a project guy. Like he's hands on. And a world that's becoming more and more. And it's funny because his wife is a technologist.
Seth
00:45:30.915 - 00:45:31.515
Exactly.
Kyle
00:45:31.635 - 00:45:36.331
And I actually got it. He needed to be dry because he needed to be less sophisticated.
Seth
00:45:36.403 - 00:45:36.827
Yeah.
Kyle
00:45:36.931 - 00:45:44.275
And that being said, I do give it an upgrade because I like I said the first 10 minutes I was like, I don't know if I like him in this role. Then it made total sense.
Drew
00:45:44.315 - 00:45:44.515
Yeah.
Kyle
00:45:44.555 - 00:45:52.099
I saw why he needed to play it that way. I thought the voice of STEM was great because it actually I would put it up there. I'm not going to say it's as good as Hal from 2001.
Seth
00:45:52.147 - 00:45:52.499
Yeah.
Kyle
00:45:52.587 - 00:45:57.123
But it definitely like was good enough to give me the vibes of how like turning on humanity.
Seth
00:45:57.179 - 00:46:13.901
And it's definitely memorable. The Lee was talking about how the. The direction that he gave him was. Well, he wanted it to be robotic. And again this is even before like chat.
GPT had voice capabilities but he wanted it to. To feel like a person that was also a robot.
Drew
00:46:13.973 - 00:46:14.245
Yeah.
Seth
00:46:14.285 - 00:46:20.077
So that kind of transitional period where we have that uncanny valley. Yes. It sounds like a real person, but.
Kyle
00:46:20.101 - 00:46:22.917
It'S still the stilted cadence of modulated.
Seth
00:46:22.981 - 00:46:23.269
Yeah.
Drew
00:46:23.317 - 00:46:36.133
Well, was the character of Sim was interesting because at the beginning you feel like he's like trying to dialogue with the lead character. Like he's like reasoning with him or trying to talk him into stuff.
Seth
00:46:36.189 - 00:46:36.533
Yeah.
Drew
00:46:36.589 - 00:46:42.941
But then kind of towards the end you realize it's just he's. It's like AI that understands how humans work so well.
Seth
00:46:43.013 - 00:46:43.405
Exactly.
Drew
00:46:43.445 - 00:47:01.993
That it's it and it's like a formula. He knows how. Just like he knew how to work the karate moves at the right time and predicted where people are at.
You know, humans are an algorithm too that he had at that point understood. So he was getting to where he needed to get on a person is a weird. Because at first you're like, oh, that's.
Well, I mean I first like oh, it's like a nice robot.
Kyle
00:47:02.129 - 00:47:02.513
Yeah.
Drew
00:47:02.569 - 00:47:06.705
And then honestly like midway into the movie I was like, this robot's not.
Seth
00:47:06.785 - 00:47:17.207
Yeah. Well, the moment he Explains to him that that going through that reboot period is what basically untethered him. That's when you're like, oh, shit.
Drew
00:47:17.311 - 00:47:24.031
As soon as he was like, we need to get me untethered, I was like, oh, no, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, that's a bad idea. Yeah.
Kyle
00:47:24.143 - 00:47:42.303
Yeah. And I'll say that I think it takes a lot for when you just have a voice because it's different. Right.
Like, it's not like voice acting for an animated film. Like, this is a live action movie with real people and everything, but you have to be a voice that somehow expresses emotion.
I'm so convinced that he's a friendly, friendly piece of technology at the beginning. Like, I love how he interacts.
Drew
00:47:42.359 - 00:47:42.591
Yeah.
Kyle
00:47:42.623 - 00:47:55.721
With Gray. Like, I love their conversations. I think it's really funny.
And I actually am kind of, like, blown away by how 80s ass it is because that's very Arnold. Like, he was even in, like, the most violent portions of Predator. He could find a way to be funny.
Seth
00:47:55.793 - 00:47:56.233
Yeah.
Kyle
00:47:56.329 - 00:48:06.121
You know, and that definitely was a callback. And so I thought they nailed it. And then, like, he did it so well that I never actually. I'm pretty good at seeing, like, the end, Like, I think.
Drew
00:48:06.273 - 00:48:06.849
Yeah.
Kyle
00:48:06.977 - 00:48:11.209
He convinced me so well that he was his friend, that I never saw the betrayal coming.
Seth
00:48:11.257 - 00:48:11.577
Yeah.
Kyle
00:48:11.641 - 00:48:14.883
And then I felt like an idiot. And then when he turned, he turned.
Seth
00:48:14.939 - 00:48:15.587
Oh, yeah.
Kyle
00:48:15.651 - 00:48:21.515
And to do all that with a voice like Simon, I don't see any, like, notable credits the actor, but he deserves a lot of credit.
Seth
00:48:21.595 - 00:48:22.375
Absolutely.
Kyle
00:48:22.755 - 00:48:48.143
For that. So. All right, we've got an upgrade so far. One to zero. All right, supporting cast.
And this is going to be kind of hard to jump around on, but I'll start with Benedict Hardy, who played Fisk, the mustache man.
Tolan, played by Christopher Kirby, the guy that got his face knifed, which was wild in our Elon Musk guy, Aaron Keane, played by Harrison Sloan Gilbertson. I'll give. I'll toss the wife in here. She doesn't. Doesn't even have a picture in IMDb.
Drew
00:48:48.239 - 00:48:49.223
Oh, wow, that's a bummer.
Kyle
00:48:49.279 - 00:48:52.951
Melanie. Yeah, Melanie Vallejo. She had a nice face. Yeah, she had a face.
Drew
00:48:53.063 - 00:48:55.435
Yeah. More than stem.
Kyle
00:48:55.895 - 00:49:00.655
And then Cirque, one of the. One of the henchmen type guys. Richard Cawthorn.
Seth
00:49:00.735 - 00:50:14.777
Yeah. I do give them all an upgrade, which I'm sensing you're probably not, but let me tell you why I probably sort of agree with you.
I could be completely off base here, but I think it leads into what we were talking about with the first Crow movie. These are not guys that you're supposed to know their background to. You're not supposed to feel sorry for them.
In fact, you're probably kind of just supposed to be like, you piece of shit, you killed my wife. I want to go fuck you up. Yeah, they did their job in that way.
I can definitely see how there could have been more depth to the characters themselves, whether we saw the development of that depth. But I'm also remembering they probably rehearsed for a week before they shot the movie.
It's not one of these things where you have like two, three months to rehearse and really get to the, the have the ability to write a 50 page character outline like Johnny Depp did for Jack Sparrow.
So I can see how just because of the nature of indie movies, they probably could have done more with the characters just if they had done more homework, not even better homework, which is more homework.
But I still give them an upgrade because I feel like for everything that was going on with the production of this movie, they absolutely stepped up to the task.
Kyle
00:50:14.881 - 00:50:15.849
Yeah, yeah.
Drew
00:50:15.897 - 00:51:16.903
I honestly, I was going to give like a similar answer. I this, the story wasn't captivating to me where like, I was bored for most of the movie, but I know, I'm sorry.
But I do feel like the actors did their job, you know, Like, I so like, you know, the henchman villain with the kind of equal that was, that was an interesting character, that was interesting to the wife was for the short time that she was in the film, she made us care about her. But like, as I was watching, I was like, I know you're gonna die. Like, I know this is where this is going.
Like they that like, so it was very cookie cutter to me, but I was like, but you're, I mean, you are making me like you, the Elon Musk character, I thought, I thought maybe he was what is just because I, for most of the movie thought he was going to be the villain. Yeah, that's kind of what they set you up to believe. And like he did a good job of giving us some convincing reasons.
So, so no, I'll give him an upgrade. I mean, who cares? It's a begrudging fine. But like, it wasn't their fault.
Kyle
00:51:16.959 - 00:51:22.423
Yeah, they're downgrading Seth's emotions right now. His zeitgeist around.
Drew
00:51:22.599 - 00:51:37.083
Listen, I hope I can one day find a woman that loves me the way you love this. I, I, When I listened to you talk about this at the beginning of this podcast, I was like, I wish I loved anything. Like. This is a nice.
Kyle
00:51:37.219 - 00:51:39.419
Good. It is a nice relationship you guys have.
Seth
00:51:39.467 - 00:51:42.979
Yeah, it is. Better than saying you enjoy Wicked Prayer.
Kyle
00:51:43.027 - 00:51:47.299
Yeah, I love that thing. Now, that's like the thing in this. We're just going to keep referencing back.
Drew
00:51:47.427 - 00:51:58.171
Listen, I enjoyed crap. I enjoyed our time crapping on Wicked Prayer. That's a fun movie to crap on the memories.
I bet you if we got the cast of Wicked Prayer on here, they would crap on it just as much.
Seth
00:51:58.243 - 00:51:59.819
I think they pretend it doesn't exist.
Kyle
00:51:59.867 - 00:52:03.735
Yeah. Yeah. I think Dennis Harper snorted his way out of remembering it doesn't exist.
Drew
00:52:04.035 - 00:52:05.211
They try not to.
Kyle
00:52:05.323 - 00:52:11.815
Well, I actually did go downgrade, Seth. I'm sorry. And it's all. It's all because of Fisk. I.
Seth
00:52:14.355 - 00:52:20.995
But he played his character the way that it was supposed to be played, did he not? Yeah, but you just don't like him.
Kyle
00:52:21.155 - 00:53:02.497
I don't like the character design in terms. Not just his look, but. And some of the stuff he did. It. You did shed some light. Like he was. He seemed more like a disgruntled IT guy than anything.
Yeah, but I just. I just felt like I needed more from my foe. Because if I really am going to take.
And this is completely on my own mentality, if I really am going to say this is maybe helping me revive a genre I once love, which even. You know, because even some of the later alien films, the RoboCop reboot, they didn't cap. They didn't capture what made those older ones great to me.
So I'm like, if this is going to be it and it's getting there, this foe doesn't really hit any of those things for me. And it's just not a focus for me. I have to equally love the foe as much, in some cases. Love the foe more.
Drew
00:53:02.561 - 00:53:02.993
Yeah.
Kyle
00:53:03.089 - 00:53:19.871
And I. This is. I can't wrap my mind around him. He's. He's maybe sadistic, but maybe he's just a hired gun.
Maybe he's, like, really evil, but I can't really tell if he's just really a mercenary. Like. Yeah, I just. I don't need much more backstory, but I just needed something to say. This is a formidable foe.
Drew
00:53:19.903 - 00:53:23.455
But see, he wasn't like the real foe exactly. Yeah, yeah, he was.
Seth
00:53:23.495 - 00:53:24.799
He was a hired hand to the.
Drew
00:53:24.847 - 00:53:29.839
He was like a mini boss. He was not even a mini boss, because you could argue Elon Musk was the mini boss.
Seth
00:53:29.887 - 00:53:30.759
Yeah, he was.
Drew
00:53:30.847 - 00:53:31.567
He was the.
Kyle
00:53:31.631 - 00:53:32.679
I didn't like him either.
Drew
00:53:32.767 - 00:53:34.191
The henchman to the. Yeah.
Kyle
00:53:34.263 - 00:53:34.831
He was.
Seth
00:53:34.943 - 00:53:47.977
I thought that last scene really solidified just like the type of character he was. You think he's this emotionless, like, feeling less person, and then you find out he's literally just has a gun pointed to his head that.
Kyle
00:53:48.031 - 00:53:48.245
Yeah.
Seth
00:53:48.285 - 00:53:49.149
Every time you know him.
Kyle
00:53:49.197 - 00:54:07.493
I didn't like the way he played it, though. I. I thought he was. I thought he was like a bad caricature of what you would think. A technologist. We see what our.
We see what our technologists act like. I mean, you know, and. And even the ones that are making the robots and stuff are. Are surfers and you know what I mean?
Like, Mark Zuckerberg's doing jiu jitsu now.
Seth
00:54:07.549 - 00:54:08.573
You know what I mean?
Kyle
00:54:08.749 - 00:54:11.701
I felt like he also at times was dressed like a Bond villain.
Seth
00:54:11.773 - 00:54:12.165
Yeah.
Drew
00:54:12.245 - 00:54:15.065
And so between me, Draco Malfoyva vibes, completely.
Kyle
00:54:15.105 - 00:54:27.777
Yeah. Between the Bond outfit and the. The slightly like, I. This was like. This is like a bad characterization of what a technologist would.
An evil technology would do now. I'm sorry, I feel bad. I feel bad, but it doesn't matter.
Seth
00:54:27.801 - 00:54:28.593
I mean, you still lost.
Kyle
00:54:28.649 - 00:54:51.562
I still lost, but take that upgrade. No, said my piece. But the mustache, Fisk getting fisky with it. All right. It's two to zero. We're going. Heading towards an upgrade potentially here.
Writing. So Lee Whannell, who also wrote Insidious 3, by the way, Invisible man, as the director, wrote Saw 1 through 3.
Seth
00:54:51.618 - 00:54:51.841
Right.
Kyle
00:54:51.896 - 00:54:52.677
A lot of.
Seth
00:54:52.732 - 00:54:58.273
A lot of crazy Saw 1. Also wrote the short film that. That started the whole Saw thing.
Kyle
00:54:58.329 - 00:54:59.697
Yeah. This guy's got a few credits.
Seth
00:54:59.761 - 00:55:04.089
Yeah, he. I think he met James 1 in film school. Like, that's when they got together.
Kyle
00:55:04.177 - 00:55:05.113
That's amazing. Yeah.
Drew
00:55:05.209 - 00:55:06.265
I'll jump first on this.
Seth
00:55:06.305 - 00:55:06.433
Yeah.
Drew
00:55:06.449 - 00:55:34.065
We'll start with you because. And it's not a testament to all the movies that he's been.
But, like, if I'm just going to talk about this movie specifically the writing, I'll give a downgrade. Like, it just. I was bored. Like, not that. Not to say that it was bad, but it wasn't like, Like, I didn't.
So I know it's a good movie or a fun movie to watch. If the next day, in a conversation with a friend, I'm like, you should check out this movie.
And when it was like, with a friend, I was like, I saw a movie last night.
Seth
00:55:35.325 - 00:55:37.065
You just hate everything good.
Drew
00:55:38.445 - 00:55:40.989
I've been told that numerous times.
Seth
00:55:41.157 - 00:55:46.349
So this is going to shock you. I too, am going to give the writing a down.
Kyle
00:55:46.437 - 00:55:46.941
Yes.
Seth
00:55:47.053 - 00:56:13.779
Because here is why I do consider the writing to be different from the story. I think the story is fantastic and was told in a very fantastic way. I don't think the point of the movie was the dialogue.
Like, you're not through the dialogue. You're not supposed to give a shit. You're just supposed to watch the story unfold.
But if we are going strictly off the physical words that we heard on screen. Yes. There's nothing special about it. So, yes, I am, too, going to give it a downgrade.
Drew
00:56:13.867 - 00:56:15.883
Can I poke at one of the things you said there?
Seth
00:56:15.939 - 00:56:16.299
Tell me.
Kyle
00:56:16.347 - 00:56:17.135
Poke hard.
Drew
00:56:18.315 - 00:56:20.331
Well, now I feel awkward using the term poke.
Seth
00:56:20.403 - 00:56:21.003
Do it, Danny.
Kyle
00:56:21.059 - 00:56:22.055
Poke harder.
Drew
00:56:22.475 - 00:56:30.443
So you said the point of the dialogue wasn't a huge focus. The main villain was only dialogue.
Seth
00:56:30.579 - 00:56:31.155
Yeah.
Drew
00:56:31.275 - 00:56:35.155
So I feel like good dialogue for an integral part of the plot.
Seth
00:56:35.235 - 00:56:37.195
Did you have an issue with his dialogue?
Drew
00:56:37.275 - 00:56:39.851
It's. I don't know.
Seth
00:56:40.003 - 00:56:53.359
That's what I'm saying. The overall writing, I don't think it was anything incredible.
I don't think it was bad in any way, But I don't think it was anything that we're just, like, sitting. Because, like. Like we said, we can't really sit here and quote a specific part of the movie.
Kyle
00:56:53.507 - 00:56:54.583
But that's a problem.
Seth
00:56:54.679 - 00:57:13.103
That's the thing is, like, sure, the. The majority of the dialogue was nothing special, but it also wasn't bad. And I think when you have like.
Like stems dialogue with our lead character, Gray, I think those moments were fantastically done. And I think because they literally had him on set doing his lines to the lead actor.
Drew
00:57:13.239 - 00:57:14.239
But that makes sense.
Seth
00:57:14.327 - 00:57:23.871
I'm. I'm a rational enough person to understand that just because this part of it is fantastic doesn't mean that it's all above a six or a six and a half.
Kyle
00:57:23.943 - 00:57:55.199
Yeah. Yeah. I actually went downgrade here, too. And here's the thing. I actually love the interaction between Stem and Gray. I thought that was a highlight.
It was. It was. It was fun sometimes it was humorous. And that's where the only real source of humor came from in this movie, was their interactions.
But outside of that, I thought the interaction with the wife were kind of mailed in. I thought the dialogue between them wasn't very well written. It was a little. It was a little. Just kind of basic, this.
None of the characters were written enough to give me just enough to say that's who that person really is.
Seth
00:57:55.247 - 00:57:55.835
Yeah.
Kyle
00:57:56.175 - 00:58:06.439
That goes for Fisk, that goes for Gray, and that goes especially for Aaron. Yeah. Everyone is just, you know, again, you're right. Like, dialogue isn't necessarily because what I'm seeing visually is very compelling.
Seth
00:58:06.487 - 00:58:06.999
Yes.
Kyle
00:58:07.127 - 00:58:17.999
But I just think. And it's not even much more. I just needed something said a different way or something a little more humorous.
Just something to kind of to link me to these characters, and I'm just not getting any of it.
Drew
00:58:18.047 - 00:58:32.287
Maybe it was. Maybe. The issue with the writing that we're all kind of identifying here is we got something and we thought it could lead to something more.
It was like. It's like when. I mean, I know I reference comedy a lot, but as comedians, it seems like a good central point for us.
Kyle
00:58:32.351 - 00:58:33.871
Reference banking instead, please.
Drew
00:58:33.943 - 00:58:41.475
Yes. It's like when you hear a new routine from someone and you're like, that's good. But I was expecting a little bit more.
Seth
00:58:41.895 - 00:58:43.081
Yeah, no, definitely.
Kyle
00:58:43.183 - 00:58:43.773
Yeah. Cool.
Seth
00:58:43.829 - 00:58:44.797
We're all in agreement there.
Kyle
00:58:44.861 - 00:58:45.357
Boom.
Seth
00:58:45.461 - 00:58:47.077
It's not bad. Could have been better.
Kyle
00:58:47.141 - 00:58:48.709
Way to fall on the sword for your own movie.
Drew
00:58:48.757 - 00:58:49.213
There we go.
Kyle
00:58:49.269 - 00:58:49.861
That's hard to do.
Seth
00:58:49.893 - 00:59:00.717
I am a rational person, and I'm willing to criticize the things that need to be criticized. Okay. Unless we're talking about Lord of the Rings, that movie, flawless. If you say anything negative, I will knife you in your sleep.
Kyle
00:59:00.741 - 00:59:04.213
We'll have to put your mic in a different room for that one. I don't want to get stabbed.
Seth
00:59:04.269 - 00:59:05.445
You just hear me in the background.
Drew
00:59:05.525 - 00:59:09.493
I like that. I like how you said knight Mike and not. Oh, did you say knife?
Seth
00:59:09.629 - 00:59:10.277
Yeah.
Drew
00:59:10.421 - 00:59:15.061
I thought you said, we'll have to put your mic in a different room. I was like, no, let's leave a mic with it. Let's put the knife somewhere.
Kyle
00:59:15.133 - 00:59:30.837
Put a shotgun in a different room. All right, it's 2 to 1. We're trending towards an upgrade, but starting to get malware here.
So we're getting, like I've always said, if life is a simulation, someone poured coffee on the server that my consciousness is hosted on. And I feel like I've never heard.
Drew
00:59:30.861 - 00:59:33.813
You say that ever. I say it every day. I love it.
Kyle
00:59:33.869 - 00:59:36.429
You just don't listen to me anymore. You've change.
Drew
00:59:36.517 - 00:59:36.837
What?
Seth
00:59:36.901 - 00:59:41.413
You know that we're not in the mirror when you say, if only you.
Kyle
00:59:41.429 - 00:59:54.277
Knew how real that is.
It's like the last podcast, remember when I got real mad and said something aggressive and you said the funniest thing ever on this podcast, you said, that was really angry at nobody. What was that for?
Seth
00:59:54.301 - 00:59:56.277
Brains. Yeah.
Drew
00:59:56.381 - 00:59:57.821
Yeah, I remember that.
Kyle
00:59:57.933 - 01:00:06.399
I laugh every time. So good directing. And again, Lee Whannell, he wrote and directed here Again, saw Insidious Invisible Man.
Seth
01:00:06.527 - 01:00:26.095
I have to give it an upgrade, I think, again, for taking a plot structure that is in some ways overdone. We had two John Wick movies before that one came out.
I think he took it in such a direction that that was new and refreshing and made me enjoy the revenge genre again. Yeah, I give it an upgrade.
Kyle
01:00:26.175 - 01:00:26.575
Love that.
Drew
01:00:26.615 - 01:00:36.535
Well, with consideration of everything that you said at the beginning of this podcast, I'll give him upgrade. Sounds like he did a lot of. A lot of work. Yeah, Like, Yeah, a lot. There was a lot of good things in putting it together.
Seth
01:00:36.955 - 01:00:57.563
So he.
He even went to the point that all those glow sticks that were on the ground in the hacker's place, not only did they have a purpose, they were there so that when the addicts and the hacker were trying to figure out where a disconnect might be in a cable, those are on the floor so they could see all the cabling. But he hand placed every single one of those glow sticks.
Kyle
01:00:57.699 - 01:00:58.667
Oh, that's amazing.
Seth
01:00:58.731 - 01:01:01.563
Like, that's the level of dedication he had to getting it right.
Drew
01:01:01.659 - 01:01:08.835
Everybody loves a micromanager. I'm sure everyone on staff with him for that, which is like, thank God he's here.
Seth
01:01:08.995 - 01:01:19.211
He's not a micromanager. He just knows when he has a particular vision and he's going to do it. Otherwise, he's.
It seems like he was so great at delegating to everybody else, but it's like every now and then he'd have something.
Drew
01:01:19.243 - 01:01:23.091
He's like, meanwhile, he's calling the lead actor. Text me every day.
Kyle
01:01:23.163 - 01:01:24.479
Yeah, yeah, your.
Drew
01:01:24.567 - 01:01:26.015
Your motion movement.
Seth
01:01:26.095 - 01:01:36.375
No, he took it upon himself to do that. Lee didn't even ask him to send him these updates.
They were going to work on it in rehearsal, but the whole month, he took it upon himself to be like, this is what I've been working on this week.
Kyle
01:01:36.495 - 01:01:37.015
That's awesome.
Drew
01:01:37.055 - 01:01:40.559
All I'm saying is the only thing that could have made this movie worse is if Jared Leto started it.
Kyle
01:01:40.647 - 01:01:50.155
Oh, God, we're not even. Once you find a thing, you just. I hope he. I hope he's in the next Fast and Furious just for. Just for his.
Seth
01:01:50.625 - 01:01:52.569
I wanted to take a gigantic.
Drew
01:01:52.617 - 01:02:03.513
You know. You know, the truth is, is that that wouldn't bother you as much because they already put Pete Davis in. In the last one.
There's like, one person that I was like, could you please never be in anything I like?
Seth
01:02:03.609 - 01:02:05.065
Yeah, seriously.
Kyle
01:02:05.225 - 01:02:07.185
Like, please don't ever do, like, a Dorito, bro.
Seth
01:02:07.225 - 01:02:09.905
I gotta ruin everything. You Love. Okay.
Drew
01:02:09.985 - 01:02:10.241
Yeah.
Kyle
01:02:10.273 - 01:02:20.763
Some people ruin everything. I. I go upgrade here too. And.
And maybe for all the faults and because he wrote indirect, maybe the dialogue isn't as great because he spent a lot of time making something very visually compelling.
Drew
01:02:20.899 - 01:02:23.895
He could have written better if he wasn't putting on the glow sticks.
Kyle
01:02:25.315 - 01:02:57.293
You know, like. Like I said earlier when I saw the first.
The first time the cyber kinetic looking filming happening where it's locked in on his head and the body, I was so refreshed because I was seeing something just different that hadn't been done. And I really appreciated it. And for all the, all the lack of dialogue, it really is a fantastic visual thing to watch.
And I think, I think Lee Whannell shows a lot of. Not just, not just gravitas here, but potential to continue doing things.
Like, it was one of those things where I watched it and I said, I can't wait to see what he does next because I think this guy could really.
Drew
01:02:57.429 - 01:03:04.933
Like, as Tess was saying, he was. He. He chose to do a movie with a lower budget, but now I kind of want to see him do a movie with a big budget. To see what?
Kyle
01:03:04.989 - 01:03:07.773
Or a lower budget than this. Yeah, let's just see how great.
Seth
01:03:07.829 - 01:03:08.901
What else can you pull out of your ass?
Drew
01:03:08.933 - 01:03:12.331
I got $30 in my wall. Go for it.
Kyle
01:03:12.403 - 01:03:17.499
I mean, what's funny is when Edgars got the big budget, that was the first time he got criticized, really was the Northman. And I liked it.
Seth
01:03:17.507 - 01:03:18.595
But Northman was amazing.
Kyle
01:03:18.635 - 01:03:22.027
Yeah. But a lot of people hated it. And it was a 70 million budget.
Seth
01:03:22.091 - 01:03:28.155
I know why they, they were expecting John Wick with axes and got the story that inspired Hamlet.
Kyle
01:03:28.275 - 01:03:30.947
Yeah. Or the. Or they got the Lighthouse with Vikings.
Seth
01:03:31.011 - 01:03:31.655
Yeah.
Kyle
01:03:33.035 - 01:04:02.501
Basically, they got Wilhelm Defoe doing ayahuasca dances. But yeah, I think, I think in going back to your budget comment, you know, that's the job of a director, is they are.
Besides setting the vision and guiding the film and being the captain, they get a certain amount of resources that the producers procure and it is their job to then do what they can. And I just think he gave us a visual feast here and something that's memorable. He innovated. He didn't have to do that camera work. He could.
We just could have gotten straightforward fight scenes.
Seth
01:04:02.533 - 01:04:02.891
Yeah.
Kyle
01:04:02.973 - 01:04:07.023
But he gave us something that I will always associate with this movie because I know I'm going to see it elsewhere.
Seth
01:04:07.079 - 01:04:07.511
Oh, yeah.
Kyle
01:04:07.583 - 01:04:11.439
So I give him a. I wish I could give him a double upgrade here because I thought. Fantastic.
Seth
01:04:11.487 - 01:04:11.671
Yeah.
Kyle
01:04:11.703 - 01:04:21.927
100% hell yeah, three to one here. Here we go. We're closing in on an upgrade. What's in front of us. So this is the cinematography, the production design, sound, costumes, how it looks.
Drew
01:04:21.991 - 01:04:46.615
I'll give it an upgrade. I mean I wasn't move. Although listen to you talk about the cinematography. It's like I know I'm looking at something good.
Good costume looks, whatever. Like it was fine. But I do think I'll give it an upgrade because I can't think of. I. The reason is because I can't. I'm a medium.
But I know that's not an option and I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna on something else unless I have to take a dump. You know, like so like.
Kyle
01:04:47.355 - 01:04:47.715
Yeah.
Drew
01:04:47.755 - 01:04:49.131
So I'm gonna give it an upgrade.
Seth
01:04:49.243 - 01:06:03.327
I give it an upgrade if only for the innovation in the camera work for those bite scenes. However, now, having gone through the whole thing that he did in the commentary, talking about which places were sets and which places were real.
Like the big rock that was over the entrance to his house that was out on location in the middle of a suburb in Melbourne. They dug a four foot hole down and when they walked down those stairs that was literally just them doing the duck and cover thing.
And look like they're going down the stairs. But then it cuts to a stairwell at the film school that they went to that apparently has been used in a ton of Australian films.
But then at the bottom of the stairwell they end up in a set and it all seamlessly just flows as if they are literally in the one spot. The.
I really love the dome that's in that room that has some of the panels are like have the holographic images on them and can do the X rays and stuff. The down to literally like he has a table that's hanging from the ceiling that's just like an oak, like a tree trunk basically.
So much thought was put into everything down to like I said, the glow sticks on the ground.
Kyle
01:06:03.391 - 01:06:03.655
Yeah.
Seth
01:06:03.695 - 01:06:10.983
In that hallway. And turning a room in a school into a biker bar, like yeah. 100. It's an upgrade for me.
Drew
01:06:11.119 - 01:06:18.549
And that kind of goes maybe it. Maybe having such a low budget ended up being a good thing for them because he had to really be intentional about every single thing.
Seth
01:06:18.637 - 01:06:19.245
Absolutely.
Kyle
01:06:19.325 - 01:07:04.823
Yeah. I'm really split on this one because one of the thoughts I had early on. Well, first of all, I'll talk about what I liked.
One thing I liked is I keep talking about the society and transition that they're showing us. This between human and technology. That's something that Vorhoven's Total Recall did really well. You're seeing self driving cabs.
There's technologies, but they're still physically jackhammering and there's still stuff that humans are doing. So they're in between. I always thought Total Recall and robocop too did that very well.
And I'm getting some of that here too, where I'm seeing a lot of that I like. But there are some things that I feel like confused me a little bit.
Like when we first meet Fisk, when we see him actually paralyze Gray and kill his wife. Like. Like that. That level of dystopia we see there with the turned over cars and the tents. Like we really don't ever see that again anywhere else.
Seth
01:07:04.879 - 01:07:05.143
Yeah.
Kyle
01:07:05.199 - 01:07:08.547
And so I'm kind of left wondering is like, well, what is. I know it's low budget.
Seth
01:07:08.631 - 01:07:10.011
I kind of disagree with that actually.
Kyle
01:07:10.083 - 01:07:10.339
Yeah.
Seth
01:07:10.387 - 01:07:22.475
Because when he goes into the biker bar and then comes out of it, he's in a very dilapidated place. That other guy in the other wheelchair where he. And which is one of my favorite parts, where he just stands, he's like, keep an eye on it, buddy.
He's like, faker. And then he gets up and gets to the other one.
Kyle
01:07:22.515 - 01:07:22.851
Yeah.
Seth
01:07:22.923 - 01:07:36.059
Like, I love that you see that. You see it in the. The VR addicts place where they're all in this also weirdly dystopian.
Still sort of familiar, but still very dystopian looking place where they're basically like heroin addicts.
Kyle
01:07:36.107 - 01:07:36.411
Yeah.
Seth
01:07:36.483 - 01:07:37.099
Drug den.
Kyle
01:07:37.187 - 01:07:40.139
That is true. I forgot. That was very. Actually that was very impactful.
Seth
01:07:40.187 - 01:07:45.987
Yeah. So I, I personally would disagree with that. I see it all over the place. It's just only when it's necessary.
Kyle
01:07:46.051 - 01:07:46.675
Yeah. I like that.
Drew
01:07:46.715 - 01:07:49.203
Could be. Could be the setting for like a sixth Crow movie.
Seth
01:07:49.259 - 01:07:49.895
Yeah.
Drew
01:07:50.315 - 01:07:53.451
If he had not gotten a machine but gotten resurrected by a Mecha Crow.
Seth
01:07:53.523 - 01:07:57.590
I mean this was almost the Crow 6. Mecha Crow 5.
Drew
01:07:57.687 - 01:08:04.309
I guess I'm not calling 2024 for a reboot. It was the fifth movie and this will be the sixth one.
Kyle
01:08:04.357 - 01:08:16.477
You know, I. I'm gonna give it an upgrade. The only other thing I didn't like was that damn polo that. I just can't get a read on this guy.
He's got a shotgun in his arm, but he's got a polo on, but he's got the utility belt. Like, who is this guy?
Seth
01:08:16.621 - 01:08:17.509
No fashion.
Drew
01:08:17.597 - 01:08:24.309
I know it's so weird from church and that's like his fancy clothing. But then it's like, oh, I gotta go potentially kill a guy. Let me go get my ammo.
Kyle
01:08:24.477 - 01:08:25.173
Yeah.
Drew
01:08:25.309 - 01:08:26.360
Yeah. He was just.
Kyle
01:08:26.492 - 01:08:42.672
He was just kind of written and looked like a pissed off IT guy to me. But it wasn't enough to give to go downgrade. I do go upgrade again. These are things that are easy to criticize and post, really.
I was immersed in this world when I was watching it and that's what it's about is being immersed. So I give it an upgrade.
Seth
01:08:42.728 - 01:08:43.216
Hell yeah.
Kyle
01:08:43.280 - 01:08:54.060
Hell yeah. So it is 14 to 1 here. We're almost done here. How good are these bad guys, huh? I like that I could repurpose that one.
Seth
01:08:54.192 - 01:09:27.645
Here's my problem and I'm actually fully split on this because I agree with you both. The general bad guys underdeveloped.
But the twist of having stem as the actual bad guy at the very end is the one thing that sets it over into upgrade for me. And, and if. If like 5 is like dead middle, you have no clue. This is like a five and a half.
So I think that twist of having the guy you think is your friend the whole time and the complete misdirection of these are the bad guys, but they're not actually the bad guys. I got to give it just to barely an upgrade.
Drew
01:09:28.425 - 01:09:54.682
I think I'm. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I think I'm going to give it a downgrade.
I think the villains were fine, but not like, wow, that was amazing. And I was. The thing that captivated me was that he won at stem. Won at the end. But that was within just the last few moments of the film.
Up until then, we had. We had seen this story before. We've seen more villain.
Seth
01:09:54.738 - 01:09:56.174
We saw it five times.
Drew
01:09:56.634 - 01:10:15.138
Yeah, we've seen more villainous cybernetic things. Do. Do it better and bigger and more villainously. So like it because.
And I've said this a couple times, this is an okay movie, but it did kind of give me a little bit of a boring factor. I'm sorry. So I'm going to give it a downgrade.
Seth
01:10:15.186 - 01:10:16.894
We're all allowed to be wrong because.
Drew
01:10:17.754 - 01:10:27.745
Yeah, that's fair. Because even though the twist was really good, that actually goes to the story and not so much the characters.
Seth
01:10:28.045 - 01:10:37.853
Yeah. And I get that for me, right.
Having stem transition at the end and then you watch it again, you start to pick up little moments where he is being insanely villainous.
Drew
01:10:37.949 - 01:11:13.225
I just, I just feel like I loved the twist and I would have been okay with the ending being exactly how it was. I would have loved to see more, like, more emotional fighting to. But where he's. I mean, he, like once he.
Once he was, like, put up in the back burner where, like, he was just in his brain with his wife. You know, in the. Like, there was. It was done, it was over. It was. Which kind of. I mean, it does kind of fit because in all of the fights, he always.
There was never really a fight. He just dominated because he knew algorithms well. But like me as a viewer, I was like, I would have wanted to see more struggles with the good guy.
Kyle
01:11:13.265 - 01:11:13.441
Yeah.
Seth
01:11:13.473 - 01:11:27.121
I mean, there was that struggle, though, because he literally is like saving himself from shooting her until he's finally forced to and then forces himself to shoot himself in the neck. Like there was. I don't know. I disagree. I think there was a huge struggle to that point.
Kyle
01:11:27.153 - 01:11:27.729
Yeah.
Seth
01:11:27.897 - 01:11:31.033
So, yeah, I hate, I hate to.
Kyle
01:11:31.049 - 01:11:32.625
Go downgrade here, but I. I understand.
Seth
01:11:32.665 - 01:11:34.445
It'S already a full upgrade, so it's good.
Kyle
01:11:35.465 - 01:11:46.131
It already won. Yeah. Yeah. And we only have one category, but I do think. I just love this category. I was like, ah, this would be a great way to use that category.
I feel like I have a pool of categories and I can just.
Drew
01:11:46.203 - 01:11:47.787
Yeah, it's a good one, though.
Kyle
01:11:47.891 - 01:11:58.315
What I loved was Stem. Everything involving Stem, when we don't know he's a bad guy and he's having amazing conversations.
And I love the interplay was like, can I do my thing now? He's like, please. I love that.
Seth
01:11:58.355 - 01:11:58.763
Yeah.
Kyle
01:11:58.859 - 01:12:44.677
I love the twist. And like, you hear it in the voice. The actor portrayed that betrayal very well.
I still think, and I know what you're saying you said, I think was one of you said that Stem ended up. Not Stem ended up being the bad guy. Not Fisk. Fisk was just a mercenary. I still think.
And it's unfair to Compare anything to RoboCop because it's my favorite movie of all time. But there is, in this world, if we're going to talk about this kind of pop sci fi type of genre, there. There is an idea of the middle bosses.
And I think back to, you know, Dick Jones was the bad guy in RoboCop, but in between him was, you know, Clarence, played by Kurt Smallwood. And then, you know, RoboCop had to get through them and each of them have their own personalities and are soaking.
And in a lot of ways, Clarence was more crazy and remember, memorable than Dick Jones.
Seth
01:12:44.741 - 01:12:45.077
Yeah.
Kyle
01:12:45.141 - 01:12:52.413
So I do think you can still have this main bad guy and add some flavor. I'm not even asking for a lot more, but I just think you're telling.
Seth
01:12:52.429 - 01:12:53.677
Me he's not memorable.
Kyle
01:12:53.821 - 01:12:55.101
Just. Just annoying.
Seth
01:12:55.173 - 01:12:57.605
First thing you said about the movie was him.
Kyle
01:12:57.685 - 01:13:00.357
His mustache. Yeah, but I don't remember it for good reasons.
Seth
01:13:00.421 - 01:13:02.605
Hey, he's still a villain and you're still talking about it.
Kyle
01:13:02.645 - 01:13:05.811
I know, but I look fondly on Clarence, whereas I don't.
Drew
01:13:05.843 - 01:13:06.427
I don't.
Kyle
01:13:06.571 - 01:13:11.795
Fisk is not. I just wish I had a bad guy I could add to the repository of great sci fi bad guys here.
Drew
01:13:11.835 - 01:13:19.267
Would you not consider the. The guy who was like Run the Elon Musk. Would he not be the middle villain in this?
Kyle
01:13:19.411 - 01:13:23.467
That's even worse. To me. He's even worse. He's the worst part of this movie.
Seth
01:13:23.531 - 01:13:30.627
He's almost a victim though, like, because he is at the point where he doesn't want to do these things. He is just being forced to.
Kyle
01:13:30.691 - 01:13:31.335
Yeah.
Drew
01:13:31.995 - 01:13:34.603
As you're watching the story, you don't know that he's dressed.
Kyle
01:13:34.659 - 01:13:35.363
Yeah, he's dressed.
Seth
01:13:35.419 - 01:13:36.867
He's gonna be the villain. But he's not.
Kyle
01:13:36.931 - 01:13:41.787
He's dressed like Bond. He talks like an emo kid. I don't. He's supposed. I'm supposed to be convinced he's some kind of.
Drew
01:13:41.811 - 01:13:42.891
I'm not saying he was captivating.
Seth
01:13:42.963 - 01:13:56.209
But let's be real though. The fucking Gen Z broccoli heads of today are going to be the. The tech billionaires of next, you know, two decades. Like, he kind of nailed it.
He kind of nailed what that generation of billionaires gonna look like.
Kyle
01:13:56.287 - 01:14:34.281
It is true. That's a good point. Well, for us it's. Hey, yeah, we have one category left. Maybe you can win even harder here. So I have to. I'm going to spend.
I had to get.
I got a little creative with this category because I was trying to think of a way to reflect this idea of, you know, what we're talking about earlier is that this is one of my favorite genres, what I call pop sci fi. Most people call it either action sci fi or horror. Sci fi is kind of where it lives. The Terminator, RoboCop, Predator, Alien or Aliens.
Not Alien, but Aliens in that World. And I felt like I was watching a bit of a revival here. It doesn't necessarily hit all the things well. So I called this category Respawn.
Seth
01:14:34.353 - 01:14:34.753
Yeah.
Kyle
01:14:34.849 - 01:15:08.167
Or do you think that this is a movie that gives you hope that say, either this director or.
There is a place where we can kind of revive that genre because even the remakes and reboots and sequels of those Movies I just mentioned lose the plot. Like, once Verhoven was no longer on Rome, RoboCop, it lost everything that made it so unique. Predator. All the new Predator movies. Absolutely.
Just not even capturing what made the original unique. And maybe it was just the time period. But what do you think? Do we get a.
Do you think this gives you hope that we can see a new, you know, onslaught of these films? Because I want it. That's why I made this category. I want those movies.
Drew
01:15:08.271 - 01:16:09.803
I'll give it an upgrade. I could see that. I mean, this definitely did have, like, that 80s movie, action movie vibe to it. Like, I. And. And that's kind of what was fun.
That was kind of the fun nostalgic value that it kind of added to it that would, like, make me feel like it's like. Because it kind of reminded me of those kind of movies. I wasn't expecting it to just have, like, an enthralling, like, wow.
Everything about this movie just blew me away. So that's why I would put it. Even though I'd say average, I'd put it on the good end of average. As in, for example, when I was.
I was with the people I was staying with this weekend when I was traveling, I was telling them about the movies we were reviewing, and he looked up upgrade on, like, on Netflix. He's like, oh, this one. And. Cause he was watching the trailer. Cause he had never heard of it.
And for a second, I thought he was gonna, like, let's go ahead and watch it. And my reaction was like, yeah, I could watch it again. Whereas, like, there'd be other movies where, like, I'm gonna watch it.
I was like, I'm gonna go to bed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth
01:16:09.859 - 01:16:11.315
So hashtag City of Angels.
Kyle
01:16:11.355 - 01:16:13.539
Yeah, I almost said the same exact.
Drew
01:16:13.627 - 01:16:16.175
Yep, yep, 100%.
Seth
01:16:16.635 - 01:16:40.285
I, too, give it an upgrade. If it had come out today, I would be more hopeful.
But as you've said, in the six years since it came out, we've seen people try and not really hit the same kind of quality level of bringing the genre back, but I think it did spark something that people wanted to try to tap back into that style of filmmaking. So, yeah, I definitely think it has an upgrade there.
Kyle
01:16:40.405 - 01:17:29.923
Totally. And now I give it an upgrade too. I mean, and even though I've.
I've been critical of some elements of it, at the end of the day, like, it did tap into that thing, and I was instantly pulled in. And it made me reflect on my love of Philip K.
Dick and all the works that have been Based on his writings, whether it's his books or his short stories.
This whole idea of the negative aspect of technology and the darkness that it can cast on humanity when we depend on it too much, that is like really the core of Philip K. Dick's writing. Which is why Minority Report, Total Recall, you know, my. Sorry. So many of his. Other. Scanner Darkly, another one. So many great.
Even though that the film sucked of that. But so many, so many movies. It's just an interesting concept. And now we are. We're living this. This movie I was watching.
Not only does it tap that vein, whereas, like when Total Recall came out or robocop, that all felt like a very far cry.
Drew
01:17:29.979 - 01:17:30.429
Yeah.
Kyle
01:17:30.547 - 01:17:32.769
Now I'm watching this, I'm like, we're closer.
Drew
01:17:32.817 - 01:17:38.033
Yeah. I feel like there's a really smart scientist or someone watching this and be like, you know, we could actually do that, like.
Kyle
01:17:38.089 - 01:17:40.257
Or damn it, they spoiled our marketing plans.
Drew
01:17:40.401 - 01:17:49.593
Yeah. Well, so. And what's interesting to me is because this ended with like, worst case scenario of for the story, like that he lost, you know.
Kyle
01:17:49.649 - 01:17:49.937
Yeah.
Drew
01:17:50.001 - 01:18:08.033
I wonder if that was a creative storytelling style. Because like so many times, like, we'll watch like movies like Terminator. And so as we.
As we look at all the AI increasing in the world and all the bad things that could potentially happen, people always reference, like, have you not seen Terminator? Have you not heard of Skynet?
Seth
01:18:08.089 - 01:18:08.489
Yeah.
Drew
01:18:08.577 - 01:18:18.553
And like, maybe that was intentional to end this movie in the way that they ended it. Because instead of having all these awesome action movies where the good guys win at the end.
Seth
01:18:18.609 - 01:18:18.985
Yeah.
Drew
01:18:19.065 - 01:18:25.423
That also are showing kind of some potential evils of technology. They're like, no, let's show you what could happen if we let this keep going.
Seth
01:18:25.489 - 01:18:27.347
Yeah. 100%. I agree with that.
Kyle
01:18:27.451 - 01:18:31.155
We have people wearing neural link now. Elon Musk neural link. The thing.
Seth
01:18:31.195 - 01:18:31.915
There's a couple of them.
Kyle
01:18:31.955 - 01:18:35.403
Yeah. I mean, this. Not that it's as powerful as stem, but it's out there.
Seth
01:18:35.459 - 01:18:47.035
Yeah. So this is just the first generation of it.
Like, and the way technology evolves, I guarantee you in the next five years, the people who have it are going to be curing basically miracles at this point.
Drew
01:18:47.075 - 01:18:57.863
Yeah. The real fear for me about everything around technology isn't the fact that we can create technology that does it.
It's the ego behind man, where we're like, yeah, but I could outsmart it.
Seth
01:18:57.919 - 01:18:58.247
Yeah.
Kyle
01:18:58.311 - 01:18:58.695
Yeah.
Drew
01:18:58.775 - 01:19:14.231
That's why I'm not afraid to let. Like, so we don't put boundaries on things because we're always like, I'll figure it out.
Yeah, but like in all these movies, you always got the Gen Z Elon Musk blonde kid. I'll figure it out. And technology is like, no, you won't.
Kyle
01:19:14.303 - 01:19:19.475
Yeah, yeah. I'm just waiting for Chat GP to insult me someday like, you idiot. You still don't know this?
Seth
01:19:20.145 - 01:19:21.353
Told you a thousand times.
Kyle
01:19:21.409 - 01:19:27.365
You can't spell for. Well, hey, five to two. We gave ourselves. We gave upgrade and upgrade.
Seth
01:19:28.025 - 01:19:29.777
I think that's a solid representation.
Kyle
01:19:29.801 - 01:19:30.405
Yeah.
Seth
01:19:30.705 - 01:19:31.409
100.
Kyle
01:19:31.537 - 01:19:31.849
Yeah.
Drew
01:19:31.897 - 01:19:34.961
I was like, thanks for recommending it. Yeah, it was a good one.
Kyle
01:19:34.993 - 01:19:36.105
And let's get it up for Seth.
Drew
01:19:36.185 - 01:19:36.537
Yeah.
Kyle
01:19:36.601 - 01:19:42.521
The first person never not named Kyle the Captain A Movie wars episode. I still feel very weird, but you did an amazing job.
Seth
01:19:42.553 - 01:19:44.641
Thank you. I appreciate it. I look forward to doing it again.
Drew
01:19:44.713 - 01:19:47.685
Come back next week for Seth next podcast episode.
Kyle
01:19:48.785 - 01:20:02.913
Well, we just got upgraded. That was a fantastic podcast. Oh, God, I sound so stupid right now that I'm going to cut that new ending. This. This was fun, man.
I was so glad, and I hope to see more from this director here. But thank you so much for tuning in. We love y'all, Kyle.
Drew
01:20:03.009 - 01:20:03.969
We love Kyle, too.
Kyle
01:20:04.057 - 01:20:05.725
I love Kyle. I'm Kyle.
Drew
01:20:08.265 - 01:20:11.825
You guys have a great week. Or life. Or the next time I see we.
Kyle
01:20:11.905 - 01:20:14.599
Suck at ending podcast. It's okay, though. Love y'all.
Seth
01:20:14.687 - 01:20:14.935
Love.