American Psycho

Kyle

00:00:03.120 - 00:00:19.361

Movie Wars. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast. I'm a child of the force. Give me a break. I'm Kyle.

Seth

00:00:19.433 - 00:00:20.233

I'm Seth.

Drew

00:00:20.329 - 00:00:21.209

I'm Drew.

Kyle

00:00:21.337 - 00:00:28.567

Yeah. And we are doing American Cycle. We were going to do Falling down today, which we still plan to do, but then they announced the remake.

Seth

00:00:28.631 - 00:00:28.967

Yeah.

Kyle

00:00:29.031 - 00:00:39.591

Of American Psycho. It was in all my feeds. We just did a fucking reboot of my favorite movie from 1984. They will never be stopped with these reboots.

Seth

00:00:39.703 - 00:00:40.935

Welcome to modern Hollywood.

Kyle

00:00:41.015 - 00:00:56.195

It's. It's sad. It's. You know, and I have some.

I have some categories and stuff about this later, but not only am I tired of it, but I really think it's interesting that because the new director says he wants to get as close to the book as possible, that is impossible.

Drew

00:00:57.895 - 00:01:00.073

That's a different category of.

Seth

00:01:00.209 - 00:01:02.921

We're getting an NC17. American Psycho.

Kyle

00:01:02.993 - 00:01:44.165

Yeah. I mean, that doesn't even begin to describe it. I mean, I. I have. I've only had one tweet ever go viral. I'm not very active on Twitter. I try.

I'm not good at it, but it was when I saw the announcement. I replied that if they did the book faithfully, it would make Terrifier three look like the Rugrats.

And that's literally the only tweet I've ever had go viral, because it is. The book makes the Bale movie look like Rugrats. I mean, the book is.

Everyone knows I like to read the books for this podcast, and Brady Sten Ellis is a top three author for me. My favorite book by him is Lunar Park. I love the Shards. I love Less Than Zero. This was the first book I read by him. Not my favorite. I don't love it.

It's not even in my top three of his books. And I tried to reread it for this, and I got through half of it, and I just couldn't do it.

Seth

00:01:44.205 - 00:01:44.613

Oh, wow.

Kyle

00:01:44.669 - 00:01:51.869

I could not get through it. I like violent movies, and I've never had a problem with it, but reading that book twice felt like punishment for myself.

Seth

00:01:51.997 - 00:02:13.571

No, I get that there's certain movies that I'm like that with. Like, I will never watch Hereditary again. I've seen it twice. That was two times too many. It is a beautiful movie, but I just.

Every time that one scene in the middle happens where the girl gets her head fucked off, like, it just. I white knuckle the couch. I have heart palpitations. Like, I just have an entire panic attack. So I get it.

Drew

00:02:13.643 - 00:02:56.803

Yeah. Sometimes Things that are meant for entertainment are not entertaining. And you're like, it's like.

It's the same philosophy of, like, why don't eat really, really, really spicy wings? Like, it's like, I like a little bit of spice, but I also like to enjoy my food and not burn my mouth off.

And so, like, sometimes, like, because that's what a lot of people were saying, because this was my first time watching American Psycho. And whenever I watch a movie, I always post on threads or on Facebook, like, what do you guys think about the movie? Just getting people's opinions.

And I try not to read too much of it until after the movie. But the one thing that people kept saying for America Psycho was, oh, man, you have to read the book.

And then as soon as they started telling me why I have to read the book, I was like, I don't think I have to read the book. I think I'm okay not reading the book.

Seth

00:02:56.919 - 00:03:00.123

You just explained everything that you would have wanted me to get out of the book.

Drew

00:03:00.259 - 00:03:01.655

I'm okay. Not like.

Kyle

00:03:01.995 - 00:03:10.627

I will say I see them as complimentary. And the reason I say that is because they could never do everything in the book ever. I still don't think they could do it today.

Drew

00:03:10.771 - 00:03:11.699

Can't wait for that revamp.

Seth

00:03:11.747 - 00:03:12.667

Go and try.

Kyle

00:03:12.851 - 00:03:27.195

Yeah. But they did attempt at least to really attach themselves to the satire in the book. The things they captured were the comedy, the satire.

There's not really a lot of violence in the movie when you think about it. Maybe that's just because I read the book again. I was like, oh, there's.

Seth

00:03:27.235 - 00:03:30.969

I think that's what you're thinking, because. No, there was quite a bit. It takes it a minute.

Drew

00:03:31.137 - 00:03:33.017

There's some violence. Yeah, there's some.

Seth

00:03:33.041 - 00:03:34.729

Good, good. It gets hardcore.

Kyle

00:03:34.817 - 00:03:59.117

Yeah. The mentality, the. The. The psychosis and the psychological elements are a lot more obvious in the book.

Because in the book he starts inserting his psychological breaks. Like, you know, the whole cat thing, like with the feed the cat stuff like that. Like. Like a quarter of the way in.

Starts randomly in small amounts, slipping in and like this. The random times when he's trying to tell people, like, I'm in. Murders and executions. Those things happen a lot.

Drew

00:03:59.181 - 00:03:59.605

A lot.

Kyle

00:03:59.685 - 00:04:23.853

And it's kind of motif in and out. And then like one. There's one part of the book where he's like. Talks about all the stupid things he did that day. Like, I went to the gym.

I'm summarizing. I went to get groceries, but then I found this dog At a pet store. I took it home and tortured it to death.

And then I went back and had dinner with Evelyn. And it's like he's, like, sticking these little things in.

And that's why the book is so hard, is because, like, you just know that, like, at some point it's just going to get unbearable.

Drew

00:04:23.909 - 00:04:24.237

Yeah.

Seth

00:04:24.301 - 00:04:44.437

I'm hoping that that's what the director's talking about when he says he wants to get closer to the book as far as, like, not just upping the violence for the sake of upping the violence, but you, you know, like you were saying, like, starting those hints a little sooner in the movie. I could. If it's like that, I could accept it a little more, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Drew

00:04:44.581 - 00:05:07.093

I did like how in the movie, like, I. And I think it's because you going into it, you're watching a movie called American Psycho. So you're already. There's already a hint already.

But I like how it didn't take them long to start dropping hints.

But at the beginning, like, it was so eerily calm with just, like, him talking about his, you know, waking up routine and whatever and the bright lights.

Kyle

00:05:07.149 - 00:05:07.493

Yeah.

Drew

00:05:07.549 - 00:05:28.639

And you're just like, this guy is. This guy's crazy. And here's the thing. I was telling, I think, Seth, this before the podcast, or maybe it was some of you guys.

I was in a really bad mood when I was watching this movie. And because I was just in a mood as I was watching, I mean, part of me is like, I mean, he's got a point.

Seth

00:05:28.687 - 00:05:31.975

Yeah, he's got a, like, maybe annoying.

Drew

00:05:32.055 - 00:05:36.935

Through, but I'm like, but maybe, maybe. I mean, I get where he's coming. We've all worked with those guys before.

Kyle

00:05:37.015 - 00:05:47.951

Like. Yeah.

And that's what's interesting about the choice, is that very beginning scene, you know, like, you, you know, you almost have an illusion immediately because there's this puritanical, completely white fluorescent room.

Seth

00:05:48.023 - 00:05:50.055

Like, it's almost like it is an insane asylum.

Drew

00:05:50.095 - 00:05:50.367

Yeah.

Kyle

00:05:50.431 - 00:06:00.063

Yes. Or heaven, though. Like, at the same time, like, this is a bastion. This is heaven.

But at the same time, like you said, there's just like this psycho psychotic cleanliness to it that's almost a sane asylum.

Seth

00:06:00.119 - 00:06:01.095

Very clinical.

Drew

00:06:01.255 - 00:06:05.783

Did we ever figure out what his actual job is? Like, what does he do?

Seth

00:06:05.919 - 00:06:09.159

Like, like he does whatever Halberstram does.

Drew

00:06:09.207 - 00:06:22.175

Yeah, he's like this big, high paying job. Maybe. Unless it's all just. Unless it's all a hallucination. But, like, you see him in his office all the time.

You see him going out to lunch all the time.

Seth

00:06:22.255 - 00:06:28.831

Yeah, that. That was my joke, was that he literally. His job is to have dinners and lunches with people. Yeah.

Drew

00:06:28.903 - 00:06:33.447

Like, never once did I. I mean, I was like, I. I'm getting attorney.

Seth

00:06:33.511 - 00:06:37.655

Vibes from him, but so they're in finance. Like, they are. They are definitely in finance.

Drew

00:06:37.695 - 00:06:39.919

And so he's a finance bro. Like, he's a Wall street dude.

Seth

00:06:39.967 - 00:07:07.297

There's that. But what we do also know is that his dad practically owns the company.

And so to me, what it felt like was his family knows how fucked up he is because he's 27. They're trying to, like, put him out in normal life, but they know what's wrong with him.

They know how fucked up he is, so they're trying to just keep him occupied and at bay through whatever this corporate job is where he's not actually doing anything, but he feels like he's part of this company.

Kyle

00:07:07.361 - 00:07:07.625

Yeah.

Drew

00:07:07.665 - 00:07:08.665

Yeah, that would make sense.

Seth

00:07:08.745 - 00:07:43.385

Also, I don't know if you guys noticed, but halfway through the movie, he takes the last of his pills and then never once takes another one after that. And I think that's when the true psychosis starts taking over. I think things were kind of breaking, like you were saying in the book especially.

We're kind of breaking in the beginning of it piece by piece.

But it's like, I forget what was going on when he just literally chugs the last of his pills, but he does that, and then you never see him take another pill again. So that's when he really goes off the deep end and is actually in full psychosis.

Drew

00:07:43.465 - 00:08:19.291

Yeah, that. That. That would make sense. That's. I mean, of course, that's the big question for the whole movie is like, how what's real? What's not real?

Which murders happen? Which murders didn't happen.

Yeah, I originally, Originally I was thinking it was right when, you know, you see the mass murder spree after he shoots the gun and see it notices the big explosion. It's like, wait, I'm not in a Fast and Furious movie. And then at that point, from there beyond, it's like, all fake. But I don't know. Like, I.

I think in thinking about the movie since I've watched it, I wouldn't be surprised if all of this was just his crazy fever dream psychosis.

Kyle

00:08:19.363 - 00:08:19.635

Yeah.

Drew

00:08:19.675 - 00:08:44.429

He never actually murdered a single person. And I don't like that because then I wasted all this time watching a story about just a weird guy.

Like, yeah, if you have those thoughts, and you're medicated. You're just an odd fellow. And that we're all. We're all a little odd to some degree. But if he's actually killing someone, then that's a psychopath.

And that's why we named the movie American Psycho.

Seth

00:08:44.517 - 00:08:47.277

Or is it Psycho for Psychiatric?

Drew

00:08:47.381 - 00:08:51.505

American Psychiatric Patient. I don't. I don't love that.

Kyle

00:08:52.285 - 00:08:52.709

Yeah.

Seth

00:08:52.757 - 00:08:54.825

That's why American Psycho is a better title.

Kyle

00:08:55.845 - 00:09:06.973

Yeah. And this was. This was one of the more exhaustive. When I say exotic, like, I was exhausted researching it. Not just because of reading the book.

Yeah, this book. This movie. We'll get to it in the randos. But this movie went through development hell.

Seth

00:09:07.029 - 00:09:07.869

Oh, my God.

Kyle

00:09:08.037 - 00:09:55.839

Yeah. And there's a lot to that. But also, this is a beloved film. I mean, this is one. When I started the Social.

Because I didn't have social media before I started the podcast, like, five years ago. And one of the first things I noticed about, like, movie creators or whatever on TikTok is that this movie is, like, everywhere.

People that list their top tens, it's there. People are, like, making, like. Like, Greatest Hits of Patrick Bateman, like, people.

And what's interesting about that is Mary Heron speaks to that on the commentary. And it's really interesting because she talks about how this movie, when it premiered at Sundance, people didn't respond. Like, people didn't cheer.

People didn't laugh. Like, they didn't think the jokes were that funny. They just didn't know what to expect. And so they. She taught in her husband. She. She talks about.

Her husband kept joking with her after the premiere. He kept calling it American Succo, because the immediate. The immediate response.

Drew

00:09:55.887 - 00:10:00.231

What a great husband thing of a movie. Gosh. Are they still married? They shouldn't.

Kyle

00:10:00.303 - 00:10:14.939

I wonder. Ye. And it didn't have great reception. But she talks about.

In the commentary, she's noticed, like, about five years later, like, people start bringing the movie up in popular culture. It starts getting satirized on, like, Saturday Night Live, and people are quoting it, and then all of a sudden, it has this weird rebirth.

Drew

00:10:15.027 - 00:10:15.323

Yeah.

Kyle

00:10:15.379 - 00:10:22.803

And it's in the American, like, kind of the Zeitgeist all of a sudden. And she says all of a sudden, it became this beloved, popular movie, but for five years, we pretty much thought it was a failure.

Seth

00:10:22.859 - 00:11:17.293

Well, I think people tend to forget, especially, like, early 2000s, end of the 90s. That was the true boom of coming out in VHS and eventually dvd. And that's where movies really got their second life.

They weren't really expected to make hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars in the theaters like they do today, because they knew that after you got, you know, 20, 50, 100 million, that was, like, a big deal. Then you would probably triple that in DVD sales or in VHS sales on top of that.

I have a very strong feeling that somehow it just ended up in a bunch of blockbusters and Hollywood videos and your local video rental places.

And that's really when it started coming back into pop culture, was because people were seeing it physically in the store, and they're like, I'll spend $2, this random movie. Because Christian Bale, by 2005, had gotten popular because of Batman Begins.

Kyle

00:11:17.349 - 00:11:18.845

He was a relative. Nobody here.

Seth

00:11:18.925 - 00:11:19.597

Exactly.

Drew

00:11:19.741 - 00:11:24.101

It was really strange watch. Because I think of. When I think of him, I think of Batman.

Seth

00:11:24.173 - 00:11:24.405

Yeah.

Drew

00:11:24.445 - 00:11:52.867

And then watching him and this, I was like, what if this was the prequel to Batman? I. That's the thing that made this movie so good, was like, it was weird. It. There's not many, like, movies like it.

It was original plotline, and you didn't know how to feel at the end. And so that's what, to me, that's what. Yeah. Like, it was. It's a. It's a just an.

It's like someone handing you a food from a different country, and you're like. They're like, I don't even know how to explain this, but just try it.

Seth

00:11:52.971 - 00:11:54.371

Yeah, Yeah, I get that.

Kyle

00:11:54.483 - 00:11:59.555

Yeah. And it's interesting, and it is crazy that this is how we meet Christian Bale. Right. He had. He was a kid actor.

Seth

00:11:59.635 - 00:11:59.939

Yeah.

Kyle

00:11:59.987 - 00:12:12.899

You know, he had done a few things, and he showed up in. Mary Herron describes him as a skinny British guy and says, you might want to work out because, you know, Patrick Bateman in the book is a.

Is a workout fiend. And he came back, like, a month or two later looking the way he did.

Drew

00:12:13.027 - 00:12:16.675

Didn't he do the workout retreat team listed in the book or in the script?

Kyle

00:12:16.715 - 00:12:22.857

Yeah, yeah. So she said. She says that some of the. Not. Not just that, but she says some of the things you see him do on screen. That's what he did.

Seth

00:12:22.931 - 00:12:23.261

Yeah.

Kyle

00:12:23.333 - 00:12:28.853

Because that in the book, he. He brags about how many crunches he can do. And so. So Christian Bale was like, well, I need to be able to do.

Seth

00:12:28.909 - 00:12:29.189

Yeah.

Kyle

00:12:29.237 - 00:12:30.605

That many crunches. And that.

Seth

00:12:30.685 - 00:12:31.533

That. Go ahead.

Drew

00:12:31.589 - 00:12:40.861

I was just thinking that scene when he's watching a scary movie and doing crutches, that was real. I could see him being. That was. That's something he did because that is crazy and weird.

Seth

00:12:41.053 - 00:13:25.301

I think people do forget, though, Christian Bale at that point was a little bit of a household name because. And I don't remember his entire filmography pre 2000, but he did do two pretty big movies.

He was the lead in Newsies, which a lot of people forget about, but Newsies was actually a really big musical at the time. And then very quickly later, he was Laurie in Little Women with Susan Sarandon and Jennifer Connelly and Winona Ryder and Kirsten Dunst.

Like, he was in some reasonably decently big movies before this. But this, I think artistically was definitely a career defining moment because, you know, it wasn't a big role at the time for him.

It showed that he was a serious artistic actor.

Kyle

00:13:25.333 - 00:13:25.501

Yeah.

Drew

00:13:25.533 - 00:13:29.981

I mean, he shined in this movie. I mean, this was the role.

Seth

00:13:30.093 - 00:13:41.485

I hope I'm not stepping on one of your randos, but I do feel like it should be mentioned. I'm pretty sure he said that he based Patrick Bateman quite a bit off of Tom Cruise in the Oprah interview.

Kyle

00:13:41.525 - 00:13:42.505

He did, yeah.

Seth

00:13:43.085 - 00:13:50.855

And if you watch that interview and then watch a clip of him as Patrick Baiton, it's makes so much sense. He was so nuts in that interview.

Drew

00:13:50.935 - 00:13:54.799

What a. What a weird thing for Tom Cruise to read on imd.

Seth

00:13:54.887 - 00:13:55.711

I know.

Kyle

00:13:55.863 - 00:13:56.635

Yeah.

Seth

00:13:57.055 - 00:13:58.223

Well, it's.

Kyle

00:13:58.279 - 00:14:24.363

It's the. It's. This is one disappointing thing they left out from the book. There's this. And this really is where. And to me, as the.

Everyone kind of has a different part of the book. They read it where they think, okay, I think this is fake. Like, he's not. For me, it was. There's a whole.

There's a whole subplot in the book that he lives in the same building as Tom Cruise in the book. And he talks to Tom Cruise and he. And Tom Cruise and Bateman, you get senses of this in the movie. But he's kind of a loser in his group.

Seth

00:14:24.419 - 00:14:24.659

Yeah.

Kyle

00:14:24.707 - 00:15:04.913

Like they. They always make fun of him. He's kind of the reject. And I just want to fit in, you know, that's. It's more exacerbated in the book.

And he gets in the elevator with Tom Cruise and he's like trying to brag on a movie and he's trying to tell him he loved Cocktail, but he calls it a different name. And the only thing Tom Cruise really says back to him, besides nodding at him, is Cocktail. It was called Cocktail.

Bateman is a complete loser in the elevator. And that's one subplot that they left Out. But again, in the book, the. It's.

It's times a thousand like them saying, is that Ivanka Trump, like, and all those like name things like, that's all the time. They're all. There's so many people that they misrecognize. They're not the right person. No, that's not him. Or that's not her.

Seth

00:15:04.969 - 00:15:05.297

Yeah.

Kyle

00:15:05.361 - 00:15:07.681

He thinks he's. There's celebrities. He's always thinking.

Drew

00:15:07.833 - 00:15:09.625

And that's even more.

Seth

00:15:09.705 - 00:15:13.799

Plays into to the idea of is anybody even sane in this world?

Kyle

00:15:13.887 - 00:15:14.439

Yes.

Seth

00:15:14.567 - 00:15:15.119

Interesting.

Drew

00:15:15.207 - 00:15:22.223

I would. I will. I bet you. I mean, I bet you when they were making the movie, they were like. They were like, that'd be a great scene. But let. We can't afford.

Seth

00:15:22.319 - 00:15:28.503

We can't pay Tom Cruise. Yeah, well, even in 2000, because Mission Impossible had just come out three years before that.

Kyle

00:15:28.559 - 00:15:37.555

So he was heavily considered for the role. He was one of the people. But he. He never actually showed interest. But he was one of the first people they wanted.

But Johnny Depp was the most interested in the role.

Drew

00:15:39.565 - 00:15:48.941

I think. Honestly, I think Johnny Depp would have done well.

I feel like Christian Bale would have done better or did better than maybe Tom Cruise would have done.

Seth

00:15:49.013 - 00:15:49.677

Oh, absolutely.

Drew

00:15:49.741 - 00:15:52.989

But maybe that's just because I'm just picturing what we saw from Christian Bale.

Seth

00:15:53.037 - 00:16:04.557

I think it also would have been a little too real with Tom Cruise, though. How funny would it have been if they got him to play Patrick Bateman and then hired someone else to play Tom Cruise in the elevator incident?

Kyle

00:16:04.621 - 00:16:05.085

I know.

Seth

00:16:05.165 - 00:16:06.665

How great would that be?

Kyle

00:16:07.725 - 00:17:03.479

They should have kept that scene because it's the funniest part in the book. Yeah, it's the funny. Because it's so awkward. It's just so like you're reading it like he's. He's this wealthy idiot.

Like, he's like, he's so uncomfortable. And there's a lot of. There's a lot of things in the movie too, that, that, that speak to this idea to me where I've landed.

Like, there's a lot of interpretations, but to me, one of the major. One of the major ways to interpret both the book and the movie that they share is that, that there's no substance. Like everyone is the same. Like in.

And his psychosis is, in a way, him trying to lash out and differentiate himself from this pool of yuppie ism. And that's why he is a psycho. But also this idea that he's mundane when he says at the end, there was no catharsis it's this idea of this confession.

Oftentimes, if you look at the psychological profile of people that murder and are psychos, they want to be caught because it affirms this evil thing in them. And that's their personality.

Drew

00:17:03.647 - 00:17:05.251

It gives them some uniqueness.

Kyle

00:17:05.383 - 00:17:05.851

Yeah.

Drew

00:17:05.923 - 00:17:20.891

You know what?

Like, I kept as I was watching the movie, especially when he was doing his murders, but, like going off on his tangents about the music and the songs, I couldn't. I couldn't help be like, I feel like he'd be a cool hang. Like, I feel like we could talk music. I feel like.

Kyle

00:17:21.003 - 00:17:21.787

So, like we.

Drew

00:17:21.811 - 00:17:23.635

Maybe we'd be buddies in the book.

Kyle

00:17:23.715 - 00:17:25.243

Those are individual chapters.

Seth

00:17:25.299 - 00:17:25.579

Yeah.

Kyle

00:17:25.627 - 00:17:56.333

So there are hundreds of pages of that. Not hundreds, but probably almost 100 total pages. They're. But they're.

But they decided that was a creative choice they made is they wanted that to be the precursor to a murder. So instead of just having him talk about music like he does in the book, like, literally start to end. Nothing happens. He talks about when, like I.

That was kind of where I stopped reading. The second time was there's like 30 pages about Whitney Houston. Yeah. And it's just literally. And it's about her biography and.

And like he analyzes every track on the Whitney Houston record.

Seth

00:17:56.389 - 00:17:56.629

Yeah.

Kyle

00:17:56.677 - 00:18:05.161

So. But they said, how can we include this? Well, what if this is what predates a murder?

So, like, if he's talking about music, you know, someone's to die, that makes sense. So that was a choice that made sense.

Drew

00:18:05.193 - 00:18:09.977

Yeah. And I thought. I thought was good. That was. It was captivating to watching him murder people.

Seth

00:18:10.041 - 00:18:10.353

Yeah.

Kyle

00:18:10.409 - 00:18:10.873

Yeah.

Seth

00:18:10.969 - 00:18:30.479

So quickly back to your point about did the murders happen? Did they not? I. I forgot until literally just right now. But I.

I realized on this last watch, through which I've watched it through probably six or eight times by now, what I realized on this last one is I think it's possible that all of the murders he committed were just in that notebook.

Kyle

00:18:30.647 - 00:18:31.023

Yeah.

Seth

00:18:31.079 - 00:18:35.335

Every time he wrote down something in the notebook in his brain, he was going, oh, yeah.

Drew

00:18:35.375 - 00:18:51.047

Like, so maybe he saw. It's like comedians who have the other brain.

When you're writing a joke, like the real situation happened and your brain's thinking, wouldn't it be funny if. And you come up with the fictional story similar thing. He probably could be a great open mic comic, honestly.

Like, he probably would fit right in with a lot of comedians.

Seth

00:18:51.151 - 00:18:53.431

I think we know quite a few. He would be like buddies.

Kyle

00:18:53.503 - 00:18:53.783

So. Yeah.

Drew

00:18:53.799 - 00:19:07.407

So it was just a notebook which would Kind of make sense too, if. I mean, it would.

Because at the end when his assistant scrolling through his calendar and seeing the messed up stuff, it would be crazy if she was scrolling through like the Notebook and seeing like the things he was writing.

Kyle

00:19:07.511 - 00:19:08.047

Yeah.

Drew

00:19:08.151 - 00:19:13.439

But that would have been too, because they were really good at. Like, we don't want to just spell it out for the audience.

Seth

00:19:13.487 - 00:19:14.115

Yeah.

Drew

00:19:14.495 - 00:19:22.889

Because I mean, if they did, the movie would have sucked. If they told us exactly how it ended and there was no mystery to it, it would have been like, oh, yeah, okay.

Seth

00:19:22.977 - 00:19:31.297

And that was definitely a big thing at the time, was these open ended. Like, even Fight Club is as definitive as it is. It still got a lot of open ended questions at the end of it.

Kyle

00:19:31.361 - 00:19:31.841

Yeah.

Seth

00:19:31.953 - 00:19:35.281

So it kind of neatly fit into that genre.

Drew

00:19:35.393 - 00:19:54.837

And I think something I realized about myself during watching this movie is when I watch movies like that, at first I hate the ending. So I'm like angry that the movie just made me sit through it and that's the ending.

But then as I think about it over time, I enjoy it more because it's given me something to think about.

Kyle

00:19:54.901 - 00:19:56.565

Yeah, yeah. It stays with you.

Drew

00:19:56.605 - 00:19:58.181

It's like a slow burn movie.

Kyle

00:19:58.253 - 00:20:08.541

Yeah. I love, I love that it opens with a really strong inner monologue and it exit with a really strong. Yeah. And what. I love that.

I love that they hit you really hard at the beginning.

Seth

00:20:08.613 - 00:20:09.061

Yeah.

Kyle

00:20:09.173 - 00:20:11.069

With the. I'm simply not there.

Seth

00:20:11.117 - 00:20:11.365

Yeah.

Kyle

00:20:11.405 - 00:20:31.085

I'm an entity. You know, like, it's like, whoa. And the fact that. And really the way to interpret.

I think the most popular interpretation of him peeling off the face mask is that he's revealing another mask. Right. He's not revealing his face. He's actually just peeling off a mask to show you another mask. He's literally just an empty force.

Drew

00:20:31.165 - 00:20:35.093

Doesn't he say something like that in one of his monologues? He's like, this is just a mask.

Seth

00:20:35.109 - 00:20:36.573

Or something in that monologue.

Drew

00:20:36.709 - 00:20:43.731

Yeah. Also like, is his wife or fiance real? Because if she's a real person, what the heck is she doing with this weirdo?

Seth

00:20:43.803 - 00:21:00.907

No, I definitely think she's real.

Again, that's where I'm like, everything that happened up until he took all those pills, other than the possible moments of just those quick psychotic breaks. A lot of times happen after drugs, by the way. He'll do cocaine and then the next scene will be him killing a homeless guy.

Drew

00:21:00.931 - 00:21:03.163

Well, you're not supposed to mix drugs and your medication.

Seth

00:21:03.219 - 00:21:03.819

Yes.

Kyle

00:21:03.987 - 00:21:04.843

And Wall Street.

Seth

00:21:04.939 - 00:21:18.183

Yeah. But no, I think the job in the Office is real. I think the assistant is real. I think the fiance is real.

What I think could even not be real, though, is, like, Willem Dafoe's character.

Drew

00:21:18.319 - 00:21:18.807

Right.

Seth

00:21:18.911 - 00:21:19.991

That could not be. That's.

Drew

00:21:20.023 - 00:21:24.519

I was starting to think, like, anytime it was just him and someone else in the room, it might have not been happening.

Seth

00:21:24.567 - 00:21:45.725

Yeah. Which. Yeah, it was very. There were very few times where it wasn't more than just two people. Like, there was a lot of people. Now, granted. And this.

This would just be my own, like, head theory, but I definitely think that the. I forget the character's name, but the guy who, like, comes onto him in the bathroom. Yeah.

He's, like, about to choke him, and he's like, oh, you love me.

Drew

00:21:45.805 - 00:21:46.701

It's one of his friends.

Seth

00:21:46.773 - 00:21:47.005

Yeah.

Drew

00:21:47.045 - 00:21:48.141

One of his co workers. Yeah.

Seth

00:21:48.173 - 00:22:00.119

I think that happened. Like, I think he. He was about to lean into the intrusive thought and kill the dude. Like, that was a real moment.

And then the guy thought he was hitting on, like, I think that was real.

Drew

00:22:00.207 - 00:22:10.463

Which would be interesting because that would make. The only killing moment that's real is the one that didn't. He didn't actually kill the person. He almost did, you know?

Seth

00:22:10.519 - 00:22:11.155

Yeah.

Kyle

00:22:11.895 - 00:22:15.639

Yeah. And a lot of that, too, is. Is built to show that he's not good at this.

Seth

00:22:15.687 - 00:22:15.983

Yeah.

Kyle

00:22:16.039 - 00:22:29.673

Like, he's kind of, like, fumbling his way through. And part of the. Like, you talked about the exercising to the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Part of the interpretation of that is he's practicing. Yeah.

Like, he wants to work out. Like, he's getting his body ready, but he's also listening because he wants to get a tune with murder.

Seth

00:22:29.729 - 00:22:29.961

Yeah.

Kyle

00:22:29.993 - 00:22:34.945

Yeah. Screaming and like, he wants that to be kind of like his. His mythos.

Seth

00:22:35.025 - 00:22:36.425

Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense.

Drew

00:22:36.465 - 00:22:44.145

Betterhelp.com this guy at all. And you're listening, boss. Guys, there's. There's other ways of handling your crap.

Kyle

00:22:44.225 - 00:22:44.601

Yeah.

Seth

00:22:44.673 - 00:22:46.405

Not a sponsor, but if you want to.

Kyle

00:22:47.505 - 00:23:04.097

Axes.com before we move on. I know this is a huge movie, so I know you know an American Psycho fan. Show us some love. It's easy to hit that share button. Send this to a friend.

Christian Bale's a big deal now. You got a Christian Bale fan in your fan. We are fan in your life. We love you. Please pass this on. Thank you.

Drew

00:23:04.201 - 00:23:08.205

And Christian Bale, if you're listening to this podcast, come talk to us. Yeah.

Kyle

00:23:11.265 - 00:23:16.889

Gosh. He went from this to Batman to the best living interpretation of Batman. That's so wild.

Seth

00:23:16.977 - 00:23:19.865

Don't forget Rain of Fire and the Machinist in between that.

Kyle

00:23:19.945 - 00:23:21.343

Oh, dude, the Machinist.

Seth

00:23:21.489 - 00:23:22.587

Have you seen Rain of Fire?

Kyle

00:23:22.651 - 00:23:23.043

I have.

Seth

00:23:23.099 - 00:23:25.339

Okay, good. You, I doubt you've seen it.

Kyle

00:23:25.387 - 00:23:28.683

And they did out of the Furnace later, which I love. I don't feel like that movie gets a lot of love.

Seth

00:23:28.739 - 00:23:47.613

It doesn't it? I, I thoroughly enjoyed it, but it definitely was a very much smaller indie movie. And I don't.

I could tell why it didn't have much appeal, like mass appeal, because it was definitely a very slow. Like it wasn't slow necessarily in a bad way, but it was a very slow paced movie. So I get why it probably didn't get Lot of love.

Kyle

00:23:47.709 - 00:23:48.269

Yeah.

Drew

00:23:48.397 - 00:23:50.213

And I haven't seen it.

Kyle

00:23:50.389 - 00:23:51.717

Yeah, it didn't get a lot of.

Seth

00:23:51.781 - 00:23:53.973

It's him and Casey Affleck, right? Yeah.

Kyle

00:23:54.029 - 00:24:06.213

This is one thing I love about him though. He is still this way too. Like he is not afraid to dip right back into the indie world.

He can play Nolan, Batman and then if he got an opportunity to do another machinist like movie. I love that about him.

Seth

00:24:06.229 - 00:24:17.281

Well, I mean that was him kind of with David O. Russell and the Fighter. Like that was him dipping his toes.

Granted David Russell is a bigger indie director, but he thought that's still an indie movie. Like that's not a big studio blockbuster movie.

Kyle

00:24:17.313 - 00:24:20.057

And then again with American Hustle, he's fantastic in American Hustle.

Seth

00:24:20.121 - 00:24:20.529

So good.

Kyle

00:24:20.577 - 00:24:21.865

Yeah. He's got so much range.

Seth

00:24:21.945 - 00:24:29.257

Let's talk, let's talk real quick about the insanity of his body changes throughout the years because. Holy.

Kyle

00:24:29.401 - 00:24:29.809

Yeah.

Seth

00:24:29.857 - 00:24:53.443

So here's the deal. He went from this movie and I think I read he was like 180 pounds, but pretty much a pure muscle. And then he did a couple of movies.

And then in 2004, I think 2004 is when he came out with the Machinist, which he got down to £119 for. And what he did literally was he would eat an apple and drink a cup of coffee a day and that was the only calories he was consuming for months.

Kyle

00:24:53.499 - 00:24:53.899

Yeah.

Seth

00:24:53.987 - 00:25:23.509

And then literally six months after they wrapped filming that he gets up to 220 to play Batman and then continues to do that for different roles because he was in that, that Vietnam movie Something Dawn, I can't remember, but he got down again to like 140, 150 for that and then bulked back up for the Dark Knight Rises and then got fat as fuck for American Hustle. Like just has gone to every extreme body wise. I think he's finally said he can't do it anymore.

Drew

00:25:23.597 - 00:25:25.317

It has to be so unhealthy.

Seth

00:25:25.381 - 00:25:26.421

I mean, it has to be.

Drew

00:25:26.453 - 00:25:27.869

It's great for us as a viewer.

Seth

00:25:27.917 - 00:25:28.309

Oh, yeah.

Drew

00:25:28.357 - 00:25:38.470

It's kind of cool to think, like, man, that's the dedication. He has this craft. But, like, there's got to be nutritionists out there that are Christian Bale fans that are, like, rolling in there 100 waves.

Seth

00:25:38.556 - 00:25:53.601

Well, like when Jared Leto gained 63ish pounds for chapter 27, which I need to put on the list because it's a great movie. He developed gout because of how quickly he gained the weight and the things he was eating in order to get weight.

He also, to the day is dealing with it.

Drew

00:25:53.633 - 00:25:56.921

He's also sending dead fish to cast members on Suicide Squad.

Seth

00:25:56.993 - 00:25:59.497

That's not true. No.

Kyle

00:25:59.681 - 00:26:00.497

Are you sure?

Seth

00:26:00.561 - 00:26:03.153

I'm positive. He sent a live rat to Margot Robbie.

Drew

00:26:03.209 - 00:26:03.585

Okay.

Seth

00:26:03.665 - 00:26:07.501

And he sent a pretence, unwrapped condom to some people.

Drew

00:26:07.573 - 00:26:10.805

Okay. My bad. Sending a live rat to someone.

Seth

00:26:10.885 - 00:26:13.745

It was overblown. She kept the rat. It's her pet now.

Drew

00:26:14.325 - 00:26:15.093

That's so weird.

Seth

00:26:15.149 - 00:26:19.125

Was overblown. And it wasn't weird because he was playing the joker. End of that.

Drew

00:26:19.245 - 00:26:28.653

Okay, go. I pressed a button there. I didn't know there was a button by pressing it. I am excited for future times of pressing that button right now, but I.

Seth

00:26:28.669 - 00:26:31.573

Have a 30 seconds to Mars tattoo, so we'll get into that later.

Drew

00:26:31.709 - 00:26:32.109

Gout.

Kyle

00:26:32.157 - 00:26:34.181

The only thing I have in common with Jared Leto.

Seth

00:26:34.253 - 00:26:34.865

Same.

Kyle

00:26:36.245 - 00:26:43.157

We're the gout generation, baby. Oh, God, I hate it. It's so bad. You know how bad it is?

Seth

00:26:43.221 - 00:26:48.773

I do. It's the worst pain I've ever been in. I would wager it's on par with childbirth.

Kyle

00:26:48.829 - 00:26:51.053

Yeah, I legit. Depending on what joint it's on.

Seth

00:26:51.109 - 00:26:52.229

Yes. Or how many.

Drew

00:26:52.317 - 00:26:56.629

Is it weird that I thought you were gonna say, I would wager it's on par with watching the Crow. Wicked.

Kyle

00:26:56.717 - 00:26:59.317

Yeah, it's very. It's very.

Seth

00:26:59.381 - 00:27:03.105

It's not. Because that was significantly worse for a lawy.

Kyle

00:27:03.205 - 00:27:03.801

Right.

Seth

00:27:03.953 - 00:27:09.005

Remember, there are women who say they would like to have another kid. No one wants to rewatch Wicked Prayer.

Kyle

00:27:10.425 - 00:27:11.521

Not doing that again.

Drew

00:27:11.593 - 00:27:11.849

No.

Kyle

00:27:11.897 - 00:27:27.713

This is the only time I haven't rewatched a movie for this podcast. I hit play. I was like, no, I went outside. All right, so the questions. Here we go.

How optimal of a soundtrack is Huey and the Huey Lewis and the News for axing your coworkers? And what would the equivalent today today be?

Seth

00:27:27.729 - 00:27:39.915

Like, what was it Chapel Round 100. Can you imagine? H o T T o G O o. My guys are getting a reservation of Doria's now. You fucking fuck.

Kyle

00:27:40.975 - 00:27:43.479

I love it, too. Dorsey is amazing.

Seth

00:27:43.607 - 00:27:44.275

Yeah.

Drew

00:27:46.975 - 00:27:48.175

Happy. The song. Happy.

Seth

00:27:48.215 - 00:27:48.791

Oh, Pharrell.

Kyle

00:27:48.823 - 00:27:49.967

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Drew

00:27:50.031 - 00:27:52.795

That would be a good one. That'd be a good one. To murder someone.

Kyle

00:27:53.135 - 00:28:08.635

It is part of the genius of this movie is the. Is the backdrop.

And obviously they merged those concepts from the book, but that was one of the genius moves that Mary Heron made, was like, let's consolidate these. And seeing that ax fall and hearing Huey Lewis and the news was.

Seth

00:28:08.755 - 00:28:09.555

It's so good.

Kyle

00:28:09.635 - 00:28:10.027

Yeah.

Seth

00:28:10.091 - 00:28:30.955

It's so good. Back in the freshman year of college, I entered a contest to make a music video for three Days Grace. And I literally used that scene as, like.

Our opening scene is where, like, we reenacted me getting axed in the face. So. No, that. That moment, especially with the Huey Lewis in the news background, like, that 100, like, just hits me in a place.

Drew

00:28:31.075 - 00:28:33.019

Which Three Days Grace song. Were you going to make a music?

Seth

00:28:33.067 - 00:28:34.595

Misery loves my company.

Drew

00:28:34.715 - 00:28:35.067

Nice.

Seth

00:28:35.131 - 00:28:39.411

Yeah. It was a contest. Like a bunch of people. It didn't go anywhere, but I. I don't know. I had fun.

Kyle

00:28:39.483 - 00:28:39.947

Yeah.

Seth

00:28:40.051 - 00:28:40.803

Did you watch it?

Kyle

00:28:40.859 - 00:28:41.611

I haven't yet. Sorry.

Seth

00:28:41.643 - 00:28:41.995

I forgot.

Kyle

00:28:42.035 - 00:28:57.819

I will. I'll watch it. I will watch it, I promise. No, I don't know. It's one of those things where I got lost in my. My text. I.

Aside from all the murder and insanity here, did this make you want to go out and spend five grand and get a tailored suit, or is it just me?

Drew

00:28:57.987 - 00:28:58.339

Right?

Seth

00:28:58.387 - 00:29:01.639

Oh, 100%. What I found out. You don't have to do that shit.

Kyle

00:29:01.727 - 00:29:02.343

Yeah.

Seth

00:29:02.479 - 00:29:11.015

I. So I've discovered my tailor right down the road. And you can go get a $40 suit from Goodwill, take it to a good tailor. It'll look like $1,000 suit.

Kyle

00:29:11.055 - 00:29:11.359

Yeah.

Seth

00:29:11.407 - 00:29:14.991

Like, God damn. So facts, tips for all you guys. But. Yes.

Drew

00:29:15.023 - 00:29:17.255

You don't even need a suit if you want to go kill someone.

Seth

00:29:17.335 - 00:29:17.735

It's true.

Drew

00:29:17.775 - 00:29:19.671

Yes. You know it's true.

Seth

00:29:19.743 - 00:29:21.999

You probably just should wrap yourself in plastic wrap.

Drew

00:29:22.047 - 00:29:24.271

Yeah, that was probably a good idea. That. Go ahead and do that.

Seth

00:29:24.343 - 00:29:24.687

Yeah.

Kyle

00:29:24.751 - 00:29:25.135

Yeah.

Seth

00:29:25.215 - 00:29:27.115

Get you a clear raincoat.

Kyle

00:29:27.775 - 00:29:38.023

That's one part in the book that is exhaustive is like the numerous. Like, there's just pages and pages of brands and what. Where the shoes come from and.

Seth

00:29:38.039 - 00:29:38.335

Yeah.

Kyle

00:29:38.415 - 00:29:52.903

One of the biggest things in the book that happens. I don't. They didn't put this in the movie, but a Woman, like, ask him if his suit is from, like, a place it's not. And he, like.

He, like, wants to kill her instantly because she asked him if a suit was like, Henry Taylor and it's like.

Seth

00:29:52.919 - 00:29:54.799

A cheaper brand than what he actually got.

Drew

00:29:54.847 - 00:30:26.215

Or, like, the weird things to me was, like, the fixation he had on the business cards and the different fonts and how. And how. But then it got, like, the good ones. It got almost, like, erotic, how he was, like, into it. And then the other thing was.

And maybe it was just kind of to cement the fact that he was really into stature and good places. And maybe in his. In his delusion, he was, like, a bigger deal than he was.

But, like, it was so weird how every time they mentioned a restaurant, they mentioned that one place, and he had such, like, apathy or, like, yeah, of course.

Seth

00:30:26.375 - 00:30:28.335

Reservation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle

00:30:28.375 - 00:30:29.159

Texarkana.

Seth

00:30:29.247 - 00:30:29.863

Yeah.

Kyle

00:30:29.999 - 00:30:35.651

It's so funny. I've been to Texarkana, man. You're not. That was so funny. Like, Texarkana is a. Is a town.

Seth

00:30:35.723 - 00:30:36.375

Yeah.

Kyle

00:30:36.715 - 00:30:40.147

I got malaria there. I'm pretty sure. Oh, my gosh.

Seth

00:30:40.211 - 00:30:51.491

But, yeah, even. Even how Jared Leto's character, Paul Allen, is just like, you got us in here. I could have gotten us into Dorsia. Like, yeah.

Everyone's bragging on the one thing that he wants to be able to do.

Kyle

00:30:51.523 - 00:30:57.775

What was the jello chart? Arugula. And, like, some kind of Jello lime gelato. Jello or some.

Drew

00:30:58.835 - 00:31:04.019

So also, like, they all just seemed like a. Like, a really weird friend group. Like, if you were.

Seth

00:31:04.067 - 00:31:04.763

That's finance, bro.

Drew

00:31:04.819 - 00:31:11.827

If you were. If you were new to the job and you went sat with them and they were having those conversations, I'd be like, I'm gonna just go eat in my office.

Seth

00:31:11.891 - 00:31:16.883

I do love that. That where Patrick Bateman draws the line is anti Semitism.

Kyle

00:31:16.979 - 00:31:17.615

Yeah.

Seth

00:31:18.275 - 00:31:22.175

He's like, I will kill a. But, hey, do not talk about Jews that way.

Kyle

00:31:22.635 - 00:31:24.243

And I. So part of that.

Drew

00:31:24.299 - 00:31:25.935

He's a murderer, not a monster.

Kyle

00:31:27.435 - 00:32:50.373

So there's one really interesting. And this isn't really necessarily a random. We're fixing get to Randos, but one of the things that you.

When you read not only the book, but kind of read into how they directed this movie, a lot of those things that he's doing is because he is an empty vessel. He's constantly doing things. You got to really look and watch it to pick up on it. There's another example.

You'll know he's trying to mimic because he wants to lash out and not be this nothingness. He can't just be nothing.

He wants to, you know, exceed this by, with his psychotic acts, the him talking, because he's married to, like, your very typical 80s white liberal woman. She's wealthy and they're very like, you know, there's kind of this.

I don't know a good word for it, but this archetype of the liberal white woman, that she's wealthy, like wealthy beyond, but still has all these causes and concerns.

So he's espousing this stuff constantly because he thinks that's how he's assimilating himself with the culture, because he knows he's this psychotic empty vessel. And he does this again.

Now, when next time you rewatch it or just go to the scene when he's eating dinner with Willem Dafoe with the PI he's staring at him, eating, because he's trying to mimic how normal people eat steak. That's what he was actually doing. He's staring at him because, you know, he's. He's just a PI. He's not wealthy, he's not a celebrity.

And so he's like defoe. If you watch him, he or a bail is staring at him and he's like trying to, like, mimic it because he doesn't know how normal people eat.

Seth

00:32:50.449 - 00:32:50.805

That makes.

Kyle

00:32:50.845 - 00:32:57.173

Because that restaurant wasn't one of the. So he's got. So he's. That. Yeah. So he's constantly trying to mimic what a weird dude.

Seth

00:32:57.229 - 00:33:26.157

Yeah.

Like, I mean, it kind of plays on the idea of psychopath psychopathy, however it's pronounced now where you don't understand the general social cues, emotionally or physically, of life. So everything that you're doing, going through the motions, is what you have gleamed from what other people are doing. Yeah.

Because you don't know what's normal because you have no baseline. It's like how you're supposed to feel and do things. So it does make sense.

Drew

00:33:26.261 - 00:33:26.997

I get that.

Seth

00:33:27.061 - 00:33:27.493

Yeah.

Kyle

00:33:27.589 - 00:33:46.193

I've just got nothing in common with you. God, I would love to say that. Work without murdering anyone. Yeah. I would just rather be like, I got nothing in common with you.

You get out of my office. Randall Randos. I had to cap myself because I have. I have a rando problem.

Seth

00:33:46.269 - 00:33:46.457

Yeah.

Kyle

00:33:46.481 - 00:33:55.209

So like on Taxi Driver, on the old version of Movie Wars, I had like 10. You've got to shut up. We can't do a three hour podcast. I was like, okay. But I kept myself at six. Here we go.

Seth

00:33:55.257 - 00:33:57.657

I had to do the same thing for the next episode. Yeah.

Kyle

00:33:57.761 - 00:33:59.897

Passion project coming From Seth on the next one.

Seth

00:33:59.961 - 00:34:00.857

Oh, it's a good time.

Kyle

00:34:00.921 - 00:34:02.057

Yeah. So let's see.

Drew

00:34:02.081 - 00:34:03.065

It's upgrade, Am I right?

Kyle

00:34:03.145 - 00:34:03.845

Yeah.

Seth

00:34:05.305 - 00:34:06.365

Oh.

Kyle

00:34:06.665 - 00:34:39.169

So I'm gonna try to be as. As sustained with the backstory. But the backstory, to me is the most interesting thing about this movie, about how it got made originally.

Stuart Gordon and Johnny Depp. There was this black and white version of this book or this movie floating around.

The book was kind of seen as untouchable in a lot of ways, because when the book came out, there were protests. Feminists were going into bookstores like Barnes and Noble and independent bookstores and pouring, like, pork blood and all over the books.

And women feminists were standing there in bookstores reading the book out loud so people. So people could hear the grotesque.

Drew

00:34:39.217 - 00:34:45.837

Gosh, that would be so annoying if you just, you know, you finally get an hour off of work and you want to go check out your favorite a book, and you go in, or.

Seth

00:34:45.861 - 00:34:49.277

You'Re there to get Good Night Moon for your kid. Yeah.

Drew

00:34:49.381 - 00:34:50.545

With your kid.

Kyle

00:34:51.205 - 00:34:58.917

And so it was. It was very faux pas. Like. Like people wanted to make. Make it, but they didn't know how, and they didn't know how to get the right director.

Seth

00:34:59.021 - 00:34:59.453

Yeah.

Kyle

00:34:59.549 - 00:35:24.329

So then Cronenberg was attached to it, which he would have definitely brought that horror element, but he. He actually got in a room with Bret Easton Ellis and he actually wanted him to help him rewrite a lot of the book.

Not in book form, but he wanted him to rewrite scenes. Because the thing about the book. And I actually.

This is one thing I do enjoy about the book lot more than a movie, is that it's a very unreliable narrator, and it's very modern. Like, it goes from first person to third person. Like, it shifts its perspective a lot.

Seth

00:35:24.457 - 00:35:24.977

Interesting.

Kyle

00:35:25.041 - 00:35:45.081

Because it actually.

And that puts you more in this idea of there's something psychotic happening because you keep bouncing around and, like, where you're at in the narrative, and it's so inconsistent and so crazy. But Cronenberg wanted to add more of a narrative. And this is something Mary Heron didn't do. She did.

She really didn't do a lot to mend that lack of narrative. And Brady Snell is like, I just. I don't want to rewrite all of this.

Seth

00:35:45.153 - 00:35:45.545

Yeah.

Drew

00:35:45.625 - 00:35:46.177

So.

Kyle

00:35:46.321 - 00:36:00.009

So then Mary Heron gets attached to it because a.

And Guinevere Turner, the writer, because they felt like if we got strong feminist director, strong feminist writer, that would help us stave off the toxicity of the book. They can't say that it's Anti woman. If we have women at the helm.

Seth

00:36:00.057 - 00:36:00.721

Yeah.

Drew

00:36:00.913 - 00:36:04.161

And I'm sure they still did. I'm sure they had some very nasty things.

Kyle

00:36:04.193 - 00:36:04.633

Oh, yeah.

Seth

00:36:04.729 - 00:36:06.765

Oh, you have no idea.

Drew

00:36:07.665 - 00:36:10.905

It's a great thought to think they can't say it, but. Oh, can they?

Kyle

00:36:10.985 - 00:36:54.417

Oh, yeah. Well, in fact, I mean, even while they were making the movie, they ended up having to do a soundstage that they built.

They were going to film it at a Toronto office and this was filmed in Toronto, but the office building they were going to film at got protested and they couldn't even enter the building. So they had to go plan B and build sound stages. So even with him at the helm. And this is the craziest part. So a lot of actors had come in.

Billy Cruda was one. Obviously we had the Johnny Depp. So Leonardo DiCaprio was coming off Titanic. He was very interested and they were very interested.

The only person that wasn't interested was Mary Herron because she loved Christian Bale. Christian Bale had been in those films you mentioned, but he was still kind of rel. He was not a leading man. Yeah, by any means.

And he hadn't really done anything huge. And this was a $6 million budget, but the studio was still willing to pay Leonardo DiCaprio $20 million.

Drew

00:36:54.561 - 00:36:54.913

Wow.

Kyle

00:36:54.969 - 00:37:37.625

And so Mary Haram believed in she. And she was really frustrated because how are we going to get Titanic guy? His whole life is about 14 year old girls worshiping him.

Like that was his life at the time. And she was like, that's not. This isn't going to work.

And so she left the project and said, if you ever decide you want to go with Christian Bale, let me know. And she loved. I mean, she loved Christian that much that she was willing to quit the project. Oliver Stone comes in and they're going to have Oliver.

Oliver Stone directed. But then it turns out her instinct was right.

It actually came down to the fact that not only Leo's agent, but people in the industry started telling Leo, your whole life is propped up by the worship of 14 year old girls right now. He was like, if you do this, not only is it going to betray your entire fan base, but this could be career ending.

Seth

00:37:37.665 - 00:37:38.081

Yeah.

Kyle

00:37:38.193 - 00:37:45.135

Because of the book, because of all this. And so he actually ended up walking away. They invite Mary Heron back and that's how they get Christian Bale in this film.

Seth

00:37:45.215 - 00:38:14.625

That's amazing.

I remember watching an interview with her where she was talking, and maybe this is also Christian Bale talking about this, but like they were talking about when they were off the project and they were still working on the project together, she was still rehearsing with him. She was still going through her script with Christian, trying to help him figure out.

And he, he literally kept going like, but we're not, we're not on the project. She's like, don't worry about it. We're just going to. Right, it'll work out.

And it's like she knew that she was right and she knew that people were going to get to the point where they agreed.

Drew

00:38:14.665 - 00:38:15.753

She manifested it.

Seth

00:38:15.809 - 00:38:17.705

Yeah. Womanifested it. Thank you.

Drew

00:38:17.745 - 00:38:31.445

Oh, yeah, that's true. For something that's predominantly a woman related thing. You don't hear about many dudes manifesting things. That's how sexism is in America.

We've taken even their word. We've masculine.

Kyle

00:38:32.515 - 00:38:37.635

Yeah. And actually, and this is, this is actually Christian Bale is one of my top, probably 10 actors.

Seth

00:38:37.698 - 00:38:38.619

Oh, 100%. Yeah.

Kyle

00:38:38.667 - 00:38:59.413

And one. And actually the reason she was so obsessed with him taking this role, besides the fact that he didn't cost $20 million, in fact, he took less than.

He took one of the least amounts of the, in the movie actually to take this role. She said that every actor, and even Leo and all the great actors that came in to read, they wanted to know his motivation.

They wanted to know what's the psychology they were trying to dissect.

Seth

00:38:59.499 - 00:38:59.953

Yeah.

Kyle

00:39:00.049 - 00:39:07.785

Bateman. Bale knew from the beginning that he was an empty vessel, that he was this kind of like what he describes as this, this, this entity.

Seth

00:39:07.865 - 00:39:08.121

Yeah.

Kyle

00:39:08.153 - 00:39:22.497

Bale knew that. And so he, right off the bat was like, there is nothing to dissect. There's nothing here. He is a.

He's a force and he's, you know, he's, he's either psychotic or he's not real. We don't know. But there is nothing. And she got. He gets it. There is nothing. And so that's actually why she knew.

Drew

00:39:22.521 - 00:39:24.609

He was the perfect person for the role.

Seth

00:39:24.697 - 00:39:59.651

And that I think speaks to how important a good relationship between producers and a studio can be with the director, because the director has a vision for a reason. You hire a director for a reason. And it just always frustrates me when I see like Edgar Wright doing the original Ant Man.

They hired him for a reason. He has a very strong physical presence in the types of movies that he makes the style.

You watch an Edgar Wright movie, you know, it's an Edgar Wright movie. And yet Disney hires him to make Ant man and then cripples him the whole time. And that's when he quit the project.

Kyle

00:39:59.723 - 00:40:00.091

Yeah.

Seth

00:40:00.163 - 00:40:06.211

And it's like, don't hire a director who has a vision for the project and not trust the vision.

Drew

00:40:06.283 - 00:40:06.707

Yeah.

Seth

00:40:06.811 - 00:40:24.025

Like, I get it. There are times, you know, sometimes the director just not good. And an executive can look at it and be like, no, no, no.

I can tell you this is not going to work. But when you're making a movie of this kind of artistic depth, you really have to trust the people who are coming in out of passion for it.

Kyle

00:40:24.105 - 00:40:24.761

Yeah.

Drew

00:40:24.913 - 00:40:54.451

And you have to know that, like, that's part of the job of the studios, the producers to hire, like, knowing the director's exact version and hiring the person you're. You want to make the kind of movie you want, but then, like you said, step away and letting them do their thing. Because then.

And you can tell when you watch those movies, you can tell the movies where they're like, they're doing exactly what they want to do and what their style. And then you can tell the ones that are like, they were maybe given too much micromanagement.

Kyle

00:40:54.483 - 00:41:03.179

Yeah, yeah. Next rando. So one of the. This was really cool. So when. When he's killing Paul Allen, which in the.

In the book, his name is actually Paul Owen, which is crazy. So that was messing with me.

Seth

00:41:03.227 - 00:41:03.787

Yeah.

Kyle

00:41:03.931 - 00:41:09.507

But in. When the blood only splat spatters on one face, I think that was. I'm trying to remember if it was accidental or not, but.

Seth

00:41:09.531 - 00:41:10.435

Oh, it was 100 accident.

Kyle

00:41:10.475 - 00:41:11.115

It was accidental.

Seth

00:41:11.155 - 00:41:12.519

Okay. And they just went for. Right.

Kyle

00:41:12.567 - 00:41:26.295

Yeah. And what they loved is in post when they were editing, like, actually that's kind of got the Dr. Hyde, Mr. Hyde thing going on.

So they've kept it because, you know, originally I think they wanted the blood to really be all over his face and stuff. Like, whoa. It's like that accidentally happened.

Seth

00:41:26.335 - 00:41:26.719

Yeah.

Kyle

00:41:26.807 - 00:41:30.531

And it had that Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde look. Is that right? Or is it Mr. Jekyll.

Seth

00:41:30.579 - 00:41:51.465

No, Dr. Jekyll, Mr.— Hyde. Yeah. Because you could have very easily gone full gore and just shot blood everywhere.

And I'm sure they had takes that was like that where he was just drenched in blood all the way around. But yeah, like, sometimes it's those accidents where you're like, ah, that wasn't a good one. Or that wasn't what I planned for. Let's do it again.

And then you go back and it tends to, like, make the film better somehow.

Drew

00:41:51.545 - 00:42:01.545

I'm glad that they, in many circumstances, didn't go full gore in this movie because, like, the less is more Made it more eerie. So much. It just made it more creepy.

Seth

00:42:01.625 - 00:42:14.023

Because when it did get hyper violent, then it was impactful. If everything had been this awful blood gore show, then you get to those last couple of murders and. And you're just like, okay, whatever.

Drew

00:42:14.079 - 00:42:14.335

Yeah.

Seth

00:42:14.375 - 00:42:23.999

But the fact that they significantly upped that ante so hard at the end there made it way more impactful to not have everything in your face the whole time.

Kyle

00:42:24.047 - 00:42:55.407

Yeah. And the way that that murder is described in the book is grotesque.

Like, he even goes into detail about, like, the sound of air escaping from his brain when he cracked his skull. And, like, oh, wow. And then, like. Like he talks about, like, seeing the jaw hanging and, like, it's just like, that's the book.

That was, like, minimal for the book. I mean, that's why I was like, I can't. I can't read this all through again. I can't do this. This was my. This was my favorite Ramb Rando.

As someone in filmmaking, I think you'll love this too. Willem Dafoe. So the way they coached him was that they wanted him to do three takes of every scene.

Seth

00:42:55.471 - 00:42:55.783

Okay.

Kyle

00:42:55.839 - 00:43:10.449

They wanted him to do one take where he believed Bateman, everything he was saying, he thought he was innocent. He totally was. Just in his world. And then they did a take where he didn't know he was kind of in between. And then they wanted to take where he.

Where he thought he was guilty. And Defoe is so expressive.

Seth

00:43:10.497 - 00:43:10.745

Yeah.

Kyle

00:43:10.785 - 00:43:19.217

With his face and, like, his acting is so, like, nonverbal. And they wanted the ability. And they did this. And when you rewatch it, you'll notice it's like they wanted to be able to cut between those.

Seth

00:43:19.281 - 00:43:19.569

Yeah.

Kyle

00:43:19.617 - 00:43:25.665

So you're actually seeing reactions that may not have necessarily been shot chronologically, but they're like, actually, let's put a take of him being unsure here.

Seth

00:43:25.705 - 00:43:25.881

Yeah.

Kyle

00:43:25.913 - 00:43:30.575

Or let's make him accusatory here. And so those takes are all, like, variances of that.

Seth

00:43:30.735 - 00:43:31.735

That makes so much more sense.

Drew

00:43:31.775 - 00:43:49.159

So brilliant, too, because when you're watching it, like, when I was watching it the first time before I even knew that I was like, does. Does he think he's the murderer? Does he not think. Is he just asking his question?

Like, you don't know, but it makes so much sense because you're watching different versions of his expression.

Seth

00:43:49.327 - 00:44:22.815

Well, I think it also can be read into.

In this is Bateman's projection of his reactions to the thing that he's saying, because it's like you can tell throughout all of Those interactions where Patrick is like, oh, no, he didn't believe that. I've got to say something else to make this more believable. And then he'll say something and Willem Dafoe will just get like, oh, yeah, no problem.

Like, whatever. When clearly what he has said is absolutely outrageous.

But it's like in his mind, this horrific, stupid little lie that he tells is what actually is like, oh, no, no, that worked that 100%.

Drew

00:44:22.925 - 00:44:41.091

Do we think William Defoe was like a hallucination the whole time, or was there actually, in this storyline, concrete, like a investigation and an officer coming in or detective coming in? Because. Because the more I think about it, I'm more inclined to believe that that was part of his psychosis. Was everything William Defoe related?

Seth

00:44:41.243 - 00:45:48.325

Here is. Here's what my theory has been.

And I don't know if it's going to change, but what my theory has been since the first few times I saw it is that potentially the only real murder was Paul Allen. And here's why I think that.

Because at the very end, he goes and talks to his lawyer, and his lawyer is the one who says, oh, no, I talked to Paul Allen 10 days ago. And for me, it's like, I think he killed him.

Called his lawyer, his lawyer cleaned up, and now that they're in public and everything else has been him, like, writing down all these murders he wants to commit and not actually doing it, now that he's going back to his lawyer to be like, I killed Paul Allen, he's just like, no, you didn't. Like, no, I've. I've fixed this. You didn't do that.

And is now this is where it also gets confusing, because I don't know if the name change, like, has anything to do with that, because it could. That name change where he's not actually Patrick Bateman could just be that everything was psychosis.

But that's where I tend to believe that the only actual murder that was committed was against Paul Allen.

Kyle

00:45:48.445 - 00:45:56.949

Yeah. That's interesting, because I think my interpretation is like, that was them putting the bow on the ambiguity.

Because this whole movie, everyone's calling somebody else a different name.

Seth

00:45:56.997 - 00:45:57.253

Yeah.

Kyle

00:45:57.309 - 00:46:03.709

Everybody looks the same. He very well have seen someone else and thought they were Paul Allen. He thinks Bateman's Davis.

Seth

00:46:03.797 - 00:46:08.429

Well, when he says Paul Allen at the very beginning of the movie, in that very first scene, it's not Jared Leto.

Kyle

00:46:08.517 - 00:46:08.973

Yeah.

Seth

00:46:09.069 - 00:46:24.417

Like, it's someone totally different. So, I mean, that's where I'm like, I. I could be convinced otherwise, but that's just.

That's always been my thinking, is the one real one was Paul Allen and that's what set off his internal psychosis. But he didn't actually follow through on any of it.

Drew

00:46:24.481 - 00:46:26.305

That's what makes this movie great is like.

Kyle

00:46:26.345 - 00:46:26.633

Yeah.

Seth

00:46:26.689 - 00:46:27.289

You just don't know.

Drew

00:46:27.337 - 00:46:28.129

Nobody knows.

Kyle

00:46:28.217 - 00:46:37.505

And there's not a lot of side quests. They're not taking a lot of moments to get into subtext.

Like, the only time that you're challenged with subtext, honestly, like, in a tangible format, is when Willem Dafoe is present.

Seth

00:46:37.545 - 00:46:37.849

Yeah.

Kyle

00:46:37.897 - 00:46:42.081

Outside of the investigation, you are literally just having to depend on your own mind.

Seth

00:46:42.153 - 00:46:42.449

Yeah.

Kyle

00:46:42.497 - 00:46:51.497

What you're seeing. And because the dialogue is about loafers. Yeah. It's about being engaged. It's about, you know, it's about everything but the murdering.

Seth

00:46:51.561 - 00:46:51.801

Yeah.

Kyle

00:46:51.833 - 00:46:58.489

You know what I'm saying? So you're having to, like, sit there and be like.

But when Willem Dafoe is on, he's like the only source of, like, okay, now we can maybe get to the bottom of something.

Drew

00:46:58.537 - 00:47:00.081

Right. That never happens and you never do.

Seth

00:47:00.153 - 00:47:06.993

But see, that's where I think Willem Dafoe was real, is because the one disappearance murder of Paul Allen actually happened.

Drew

00:47:07.049 - 00:47:10.385

Yeah. If the. If. If that was a real murder, then he was definitely real.

Seth

00:47:10.425 - 00:47:10.825

Yeah.

Drew

00:47:10.905 - 00:47:14.013

Doing good police work. As they should.

Seth

00:47:14.069 - 00:47:18.533

But again, it's just. I can't with any definitiveness say that that's the way it is.

Kyle

00:47:18.629 - 00:47:19.789

Shall we go to Dorsia?

Seth

00:47:19.877 - 00:47:20.469

Let's do it.

Kyle

00:47:20.557 - 00:47:27.025

Shall we see. Shall we? I'm trying to think of drop a chainsaw.

Drew

00:47:28.645 - 00:47:29.813

I love that scene.

Kyle

00:47:29.869 - 00:47:31.885

The most unrealistic ever.

Drew

00:47:32.045 - 00:47:40.981

Love that. That was. That was just, to me the most because. And his enthusiast got her. We've all been there. We've all wanted to drop a chainsaw on a person.

Seth

00:47:41.053 - 00:47:41.905

Absolutely.

Kyle

00:47:42.245 - 00:47:47.461

Yeah. And what's funny, it's one of the most unrealistic kills ever, but it's one of the most, like, beloved by fans.

Seth

00:47:47.533 - 00:47:48.157

Oh, absolutely.

Kyle

00:47:48.181 - 00:48:00.789

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think.

I can't remember because I didn't get through the second half of the book this time, but I don't think that one's in the book, actually. I don't think that's actually in the book. I'm trying to remember. I read it the first time years ago. So.

Seth

00:48:00.837 - 00:48:03.549

Yeah. Feel free to correct us in the comments.

Kyle

00:48:03.637 - 00:48:06.263

Correct us nicely. Nicely.

Seth

00:48:06.319 - 00:48:06.967

Don't be a dick.

Kyle

00:48:07.031 - 00:48:19.719

Don't wish me cancer like the last guy. Jeff Tones, top Bill cast. And so I hear. I kind of had to make Creative decisions here because Christian Bale was not highly paid, so.

But I still put Bale as Bateman.

Seth

00:48:19.807 - 00:48:28.607

I mean, he was the first name on the. On the list. So it doesn't. Payment doesn't matter at that point. A lot.

I mean, even Jonah Hill in the Wolf of Wall street took a significant cut in pay just so he could be in the movie.

Kyle

00:48:28.671 - 00:48:33.183

Yeah, true. Justin Theroux as Timothy Brice. And then Josh Lucas is Craig McDermott.

Seth

00:48:33.239 - 00:48:33.623

Yeah.

Kyle

00:48:33.719 - 00:48:35.455

How do we feel about this top Bill cast?

Seth

00:48:35.575 - 00:48:39.167

I mean, they were fantastic. They took the cartooniness. Oh, go ahead.

Kyle

00:48:39.231 - 00:48:45.263

Sorry. By the way. No, hold the thought. My category is if it's. Yes, affirmative. It even has a watermark.

Seth

00:48:45.319 - 00:48:45.807

There we go.

Kyle

00:48:45.871 - 00:48:49.835

That's positive. If it's negative. No. This confession has meant nothing.

Seth

00:48:51.455 - 00:48:52.983

It's all good. I love it.

Drew

00:48:53.079 - 00:48:54.395

That's very creative.

Seth

00:48:54.695 - 00:49:34.713

I think every single one of them committed to the surrealist nature of the film. Film. Because it wasn't ever supposed to fully feel like real life.

It was supposed to kind of like I was saying before we started, like films that were made kind of pre 2005, and some of it had to do with the fact that they had to record ADR for a lot of it. So you got a second chance at doing the acting.

I feel like they were purposefully this kind of surreal acting style where it kind of felt above real life, outside of real life. So, no, I think every one of them committed to the correct bit as hard as they possibly could. So what is it? Yes, it has a watermark.

Kyle

00:49:34.769 - 00:49:35.001

Yep.

Seth

00:49:35.033 - 00:49:37.865

Or it even has a watermark. Yeah, yeah, they have a watermark.

Drew

00:49:37.945 - 00:49:40.249

Oh, yeah, I agree. They even have a watermark.

Kyle

00:49:40.297 - 00:49:40.865

Pale nimbus.

Drew

00:49:40.905 - 00:49:42.513

They did. They did. Fantastic.

Kyle

00:49:42.689 - 00:49:48.785

Yeah. I almost wanted to put the. The color of the cards as the positive. Pale nimbus. Raised lettering.

Seth

00:49:48.825 - 00:49:50.925

Yeah. Bone.

Kyle

00:49:51.385 - 00:50:20.345

I go. I go. It has a water mark too. And I. I love how everyone is. Is really, like you said, committed. Like they. It's not as. This is not an easy thing to do.

They're all kind of having to just act like, like there's nothing wrong with this world they're in. Yeah. And that really, honestly, in real life for every, like, like hyper wealthy.

Like, not that I've been around a lot of hyper wealthy people, but I just. On the rare occasion that I've been around any form of wealth, you do kind of notice like, yeah, they're a little detached.

Seth

00:50:20.385 - 00:50:20.585

Yeah.

Kyle

00:50:20.625 - 00:50:27.201

You know, and this is a thousand times that. But I do love how they're all having almost like they're all just talking to themselves.

Seth

00:50:27.273 - 00:50:27.457

Yeah.

Kyle

00:50:27.481 - 00:50:32.233

You know what I mean? And the guy, Josh Lucas, who plays McDermott, I think does a fantastic job.

Seth

00:50:32.289 - 00:50:32.545

Yeah.

Kyle

00:50:32.585 - 00:50:40.049

And at the end when he pretends to care about Reagan and also he pretends to care about politics, like, oh, this guy. You know, it's just like you don't care.

Seth

00:50:40.137 - 00:50:55.635

But see, it's funny you say pretends because it's like in that scene, it's almost like everyone else is finally being normal because he's broken so hard that it's like the illusion he created of everyone else is finally you're seeing the real thing.

Kyle

00:50:55.715 - 00:50:56.019

Yeah.

Seth

00:50:56.067 - 00:51:01.603

So it's like, again, it's so open ended that he could have been pretending to give a shit or it's like he actually gives a shit.

Drew

00:51:01.659 - 00:51:08.051

What if that last scene is like the most normal and real thing that happened in the whole movie? For most of it, it just hasn't been.

Kyle

00:51:08.083 - 00:51:08.539

Yeah.

Drew

00:51:08.667 - 00:51:16.439

Finally at the end, they switch it. Like, no, this is real. He's the weird guy. And all of his people are just like, I guess we got to keep him around.

Seth

00:51:16.527 - 00:51:17.127

Yeah.

Kyle

00:51:17.271 - 00:51:57.485

Yeah. And there's one little faux pas at the end that's supposed to be more significant too, because that sign on the door, it says, this is not an exit.

Yeah, it's supposed to be much bigger. And so apparently they, the. They didn't have time to recreate the prop and they had to like wrap it up because they were. And.

But the prop, it was supposed to be much more obvious because in the book, actually Bret Easton Ellis's merch, a lot of T shirts and stuff that say, this is not an exit. Like it bumper sticker. Like it's. It's a big thing in the book. But.

But that sign behind him in the book is a big deal because you realize that kind of like affirms this idea that he's not escaping this hell. But. So. Yeah, but that, like, that totally adds to what you just said is like all of a sudden we're like, this is the most realism we're gonna get.

Seth

00:51:57.525 - 00:51:59.625

Yeah, love it. All good.

Kyle

00:51:59.925 - 00:52:02.125

Sorry, I wanted. Did I just go off tangent? Is that what I did?

Drew

00:52:02.165 - 00:52:07.609

No, no, I was just reflecting. It's just a weird. This movie is a thinker. It's a weird.

Kyle

00:52:07.757 - 00:52:08.217

It is.

Seth

00:52:08.281 - 00:52:09.369

We need more of these.

Kyle

00:52:09.497 - 00:52:23.921

All right, so. Yeah, we do. I know, right? And we just got done with the crow. I texted these guys before we started.

I was like, I'm just so glad to not be talking about the crow anymore. I love 94 is such an important movie to me and then they shat on it and now they're gonna shit on this.

Seth

00:52:24.113 - 00:52:25.785

Stop shitting, please.

Kyle

00:52:25.865 - 00:52:28.641

All right. Sorry. Your neighbors are probably so mad at me.

Seth

00:52:28.673 - 00:52:29.777

I don't have neighbors right now.

Kyle

00:52:29.841 - 00:52:30.089

Really?

Seth

00:52:30.137 - 00:52:30.409

Yeah.

Kyle

00:52:30.457 - 00:52:31.885

I'm gonna yell some more then.

Drew

00:52:32.865 - 00:52:34.405

Well, now that we know that.

Kyle

00:52:36.425 - 00:53:00.311

All right, supporting cast. Really, really interesting. Bill Sage is David Van Patten. Chloe Savanny as Gene. Reese Witherspoon is Evelyn Williams.

Samantha Mantis as Courtney Rollinson, the the Mistress. Matt Ross is Lou. I gotta list a lot of them because there's a ton of them. Lewis Carruthers. Jared Leto is Paul Allen.

And then I'll stop with Willem Dafoe as Donald Kimball, the private detective.

Drew

00:53:00.423 - 00:53:03.899

Everyone was great except for Jared Leto. I think he is terrible.

Kyle

00:53:04.047 - 00:53:04.547

Really?

Drew

00:53:04.651 - 00:53:18.307

No, I'm just kidding. I just wanted to say that because seth has a Mar 30 second Mars tattoo, I do now. I know the pressure point for him.

But no, I'll give them a good watermark to fast and furious.

Seth

00:53:18.371 - 00:53:19.815

10 is a good movie.

Drew

00:53:21.875 - 00:53:28.587

See, I see what you're doing, but it still worked a little. I got my skin raised a little bit.

Kyle

00:53:28.771 - 00:53:29.705

That's amazing.

Drew

00:53:29.835 - 00:53:39.589

But no, I mean all the cast, top bill and bottom bill, which I don't think is what they call them, nor should they.

Seth

00:53:39.637 - 00:53:41.745

Nobody should lean and supporting.

Drew

00:53:43.165 - 00:53:47.813

That was part of what made this movie so well is everyone did.

Seth

00:53:47.989 - 00:54:35.367

Everyone acted well and yeah, I mean, same with. With the top build cast, everyone committed to the bit.

Like I've seen Reese Witherspoon in plenty of other movies and she does, I don't know, like the one I like to compare her to because I think it is one of her best acting jobs was Big Little Lies.

You compare her from this and Big Little Lies, there's a little bit of crossover because of the type of character that she's playing, but she definitely in Big Little Lies plays more to the realism. Well, in this you feel the still surrealism of the way that she's delivering her lines.

So ultimately, and to me, when a cast, an entire cast does so well, I think it speaks highly of the director, which I know we're going to talk about in a second. But yeah, 100%. It's got a watermark.

Kyle

00:54:35.551 - 00:54:42.311

Yeah, yeah. I go it's. It even has a watermark here too. I got two performances to call out. First of all, Chloe, Savannah's Gene.

Seth

00:54:42.343 - 00:54:45.047

She's watch that be this episode's Deftones.

Kyle

00:54:45.111 - 00:54:47.207

Yeah. Did I say it wrong? What is it?

Seth

00:54:47.271 - 00:54:52.945

I don't even know. I do not know how to Pronounce her name. So watch like eight, 80 people just be like, it's seven. Yay.

Drew

00:54:53.765 - 00:54:55.605

You guys are correct. Everyone else is wrong.

Seth

00:54:55.645 - 00:54:56.661

Yeah, that's right.

Kyle

00:54:56.773 - 00:55:21.483

Chloe, 7E. Chloe, 7. She was fantastic as Jane. Okay. The Deftones. She. I loved how she played like, the normal person. She's the only normal person in this movie.

And she's so, like, she's not even picking up on all the dual meaning of Bail of Bateman's when he's saying, I don't want. I don't want to hurt you. She's like, I don't want to get bruised. And she's so innocent. And I love that she's the one that discovers the Notebook.

Seth

00:55:21.539 - 00:55:22.155

Yeah.

Kyle

00:55:22.315 - 00:55:28.267

Because she really. She really does play just a great, like, kind of middle of the road person. And then Defoe, I mean.

Seth

00:55:28.291 - 00:55:28.755

Oh, yeah.

Kyle

00:55:28.835 - 00:55:36.067

I almost don't even consider him a mainstream actor at this point because he honestly shines so much in movies. Low budget independent movies.

Seth

00:55:36.131 - 00:55:44.507

Oh, yeah. Because he's an artist. He's an actual. He does this for the art. He. He literally, like, I think right after that, went and filmed Spider Man.

Kyle

00:55:44.611 - 00:55:44.875

Yeah.

Seth

00:55:44.915 - 00:55:55.147

Like, again, same with Christian Bale. He can go and do the big blockbuster and freaking murder, but then he'll just go and be in a random movie as Vincent Van Gogh that nobody watched.

Kyle

00:55:55.171 - 00:55:55.555

Yeah.

Seth

00:55:55.635 - 00:56:00.995

Like, no. He's true to the craft. A true, genuine, artistic actor. So no. 100.

Kyle

00:56:01.075 - 00:56:01.339

Yeah.

Drew

00:56:01.387 - 00:56:05.379

I mean, so good. I mean, I don't know if I've ever seen either of them in a movie where I didn't think they were good.

Kyle

00:56:05.427 - 00:56:07.051

Yeah. The Lighthouse.

Seth

00:56:07.123 - 00:56:07.539

Yeah.

Kyle

00:56:07.627 - 00:56:08.955

He boggled my mind.

Seth

00:56:09.035 - 00:56:09.811

Incredible.

Kyle

00:56:09.963 - 00:56:16.595

He scrambled my brains in the Lighthouse and then the Antichrist, which I don't like the movie, but I will not watch that movie. Don't watch it.

Seth

00:56:16.635 - 00:56:17.435

I don't know.

Kyle

00:56:17.475 - 00:56:18.253

Nobody watched that.

Drew

00:56:18.269 - 00:56:20.205

Is that the sequel to the Wicked Prayer?

Kyle

00:56:20.365 - 00:56:21.285

Exactly.

Drew

00:56:21.445 - 00:56:23.213

The child that actually did show up.

Kyle

00:56:23.269 - 00:56:25.037

Yes. Oh, my God. It's a Von Trier film.

Seth

00:56:25.061 - 00:56:32.029

And Von Trier film I did love him in was actually an infomaniac. I thought his role in that was. Yeah, he just absolutely crushed it.

Kyle

00:56:32.077 - 00:56:35.269

Yeah. So, yeah, I got a lot of problems with Von Trier most of the time.

Seth

00:56:35.317 - 00:56:43.025

Oh, I love Von Trier. Antichrist is the one movie of his I will not watch, but all the others I have no problem with. I've absolutely enjoyed what he's done.

Kyle

00:56:44.685 - 00:56:45.373

Never again.

Seth

00:56:45.429 - 00:56:46.829

All right, next week we're going to.

Drew

00:56:46.837 - 00:56:50.117

Be reviewing, and I think I'm feeling.

Seth

00:56:50.181 - 00:56:51.585

You will be by yourself.

Kyle

00:56:52.085 - 00:56:53.909

There's one scene in particular that I.

Seth

00:56:53.917 - 00:56:55.949

Know exactly what scene you're talking about.

Kyle

00:56:56.117 - 00:57:16.381

Nope, nobody wants to talk about it. And the fact that I finished that movie is unbelievable to me. All right, it's 2 to 0. We've got a watermark here. So we have writing here.

So getting to some of our more traditional categories. And just to mention, Brady Senellis wrote the novel, then Mary Heron and Guinevere Turner wrote the screenplay.

Seth

00:57:16.453 - 00:58:11.521

Yeah. So as someone who hasn't read the book, I can only speak to the script in the movie.

And I will say, and I'm sure it's because it's this way in the book, but if I was only going to judge it as a film script, I do think the humor was lost on me.

And most people the first time they saw it, I, I didn't know it was supposed to be a comedy until I watched the behind the scenes of it months after I first saw the movie back in college. So I had absolutely no clue it was a comedy.

And I was just sitting there horrified, frickin 18 year old homeschooled Christian Seth watching this movie. I was just horrified the whole time. And I was like, what is going on? And then I watched it and she was like, oh no, it's a very surrealist comedy.

And I went back and watched it again and that's when I understood it was a comedy. So I think, I think the comedic aspect of it probably could have been a little better, but that's really my only complaint with it.

So yeah, I think, yeah, it has a watermark.

Drew

00:58:11.673 - 00:58:53.643

I think it speaks highly to it that they took the book and they were able to change it in such ways to make it work as a movie. And they put so much intentional effort to do that. And it is so different than the book, but in a way that works to make it a movie.

Like if they were to do the.

I mean they're, maybe they're gonna figure it out when they do the reboot, but if they were to do the book word for word or as close as possible, it's going to be a terrible movie or a really good movie for like a very small segment of people. But. And I think, I think, I think the comedy.

I can kind of see what you're saying, but I also think the overall, like the comedy is meant to help get you through the crazy weird plot. Yeah.

Seth

00:58:53.739 - 00:58:54.323

Oh, definitely.

Drew

00:58:54.379 - 00:59:08.179

So like it, like is it a. Did I laugh the whole time watching the movie?

No, but like it did what comedy does, which is lighten the mood so that we can get into more messed up stuff like it's like that. So I don't know, I'll give it a watermark as well.

Seth

00:59:08.227 - 00:59:08.947

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle

00:59:08.971 - 00:59:15.259

And there's a lot. There's a lot about when it came out that affirms what both of you are saying, because when it came out, it was almost marketed as a slasher film.

Seth

00:59:15.307 - 00:59:15.643

Yeah.

Kyle

00:59:15.699 - 00:59:20.683

And so like horror, you know, and if you're like a slasher, gore hound, horror person and you show up and.

Seth

00:59:20.699 - 00:59:22.803

See that it's not going to tickle that itch.

Kyle

00:59:22.859 - 00:59:23.139

Yeah.

Drew

00:59:23.187 - 00:59:31.103

If I ever ask someone what their favorite comedy is and they say, american Psycho, I just met the American Psycho funny man.

Kyle

00:59:31.199 - 01:00:02.767

It's really funny. And that's why I actually give it. Give it at the watermark because I think they took the comedy is in the book as well, but it's.

It's much more pressed in between. So much just brutality. They took those moments and a lot of them are cut and paste from the book. A lot of the.

The dialogue, it's straight from the book. And the way they able. Were able to cut that out and paste it here, but actually make it flow and make it a comedy. Really impressive.

I think you can adapt this work in its entirety. And I think they did the next best thing, which is focus on the satire.

Drew

01:00:02.871 - 01:00:03.231

Right.

Kyle

01:00:03.303 - 01:00:12.879

And make it a black comedy. And I think they do that really well. So I also give it a huge credit. Like I said, this isn't even my favorite. My favorite Ellis book.

So I think they revived it in a lot of ways.

Seth

01:00:12.927 - 01:00:13.207

Yeah.

Kyle

01:00:13.271 - 01:00:15.455

Because it's very difficult to read for the normal person.

Drew

01:00:15.535 - 01:00:16.007

Yeah.

Kyle

01:00:16.111 - 01:00:39.395

So three to zero. We are doing well here with the watermark here as in our. Yes. Affirmative directing Mary Herron.

And it's worth noting, the reason she got this job was because they loved what she did with a movie called I Shot Andy Warhol. So that deals a little bit with psychosis and a psycho trying to kill Andy Warhol. And they thought we need a woman to stave off the toxicity.

And she did great there.

Seth

01:00:39.435 - 01:00:42.347

So, Yeah. I mean, 100%. She fucking killed it.

Kyle

01:00:42.411 - 01:00:42.891

Yeah.

Seth

01:00:43.003 - 01:00:49.803

Yeah. I have no. On her end, I have absolutely no criticisms for her. This was an insanely well done movie.

Drew

01:00:49.899 - 01:01:09.977

Especially with the story you shared, like with the rando about like how she walked away but still kind of was working on it. How she really pushed her bail because she knew he would be the perfect person for that role. I mean, like. Yeah, the. The movie.

I mean, if they had kept the first director, even if it would have sucked so much.

Seth

01:01:10.041 - 01:01:10.497

Yeah.

Drew

01:01:10.601 - 01:01:14.257

If Things worked out where their first plan worked out.

Kyle

01:01:14.441 - 01:01:22.445

Yeah. And you got to wonder where Oliver Stone would have taken this because they knew they were going to have to increase the budget.

They were going to try. They were going to try to get an additional 40 million.

Seth

01:01:22.545 - 01:01:23.077

Oh, my God.

Drew

01:01:23.141 - 01:01:32.269

And you know, maybe. Maybe it would have been fine because Leo, now, we know now, especially in the future, Leonardo DiCaprio is a great actor, so he could.

And it probably would have tanked.

Seth

01:01:32.317 - 01:01:34.245

He's great at one thing, but, like.

Drew

01:01:34.365 - 01:01:39.685

But it is weird to think, like, I don't. I don't think he would have done as well as Christian Bale.

Seth

01:01:39.725 - 01:01:57.849

I don't either, you know, especially at the time because of what he had done. Maybe if this was post Shutter island and post Inception and post Wolf of Wall street, he might have had a chance.

But I do not think 1999 Leo would have done anything good in this movie.

Kyle

01:01:57.897 - 01:02:00.761

Yeah. He doesn't even look the same anymore as he did.

Seth

01:02:00.833 - 01:02:14.617

No. He was still so baby faced. And Christian Bale was just baby faced enough that you could believe he was 27, but wasn't.

Wasn't like a child like Leo was. So. No, I think he would have been terrible.

Drew

01:02:14.801 - 01:02:16.105

She did great as a director.

Seth

01:02:16.185 - 01:02:16.821

Yeah.

Kyle

01:02:16.993 - 01:02:48.627

Yeah. I give it the same. And I think, I think not. It's what you said with the rando. Right. Like her going to bat so hard for bail.

But I also think, you know this. She could have very well just been a throwaway director that was hired because they needed a female.

Because if they hired a male, there's no way they could release this film given the, the pressure they were receiving. But she came in and she had a vision and she really, in her relationship with Gwynnefer. Gwynevere, return of the writer. I think they.

They really picked out and really they created some visuals that were very memorable.

Seth

01:02:48.691 - 01:02:48.979

Yeah.

Kyle

01:02:49.027 - 01:02:54.227

And they kind of like took a risk on bail. Even though she. It's really cool that she went to bat for him. She also was taking a risk.

Drew

01:02:54.291 - 01:02:54.627

Yeah.

Kyle

01:02:54.691 - 01:03:11.259

With him. And it paid off. And in a lot of ways, she. She let him work. She let him do his thing, stayed out of his way. She talks about that in the commentary.

And really, like, I think she saw something and I think we could probably. If you love Christian Bale, I don't think you can say I love Christian Bale without saying thanks, Mary Heron.

Seth

01:03:11.307 - 01:03:12.267

Yeah. Legitimately.

Kyle

01:03:12.371 - 01:03:19.655

Yeah. So, I mean, you get a. And it's a day that people still post about and still talk about a lot.

Seth

01:03:19.735 - 01:03:27.775

There's an entire Instagram account that just posts him doing the workout routine as, like, Patrick Bateman. Like. Like confidence, basically.

Kyle

01:03:27.855 - 01:03:29.935

He's amazing. Get that energy.

Drew

01:03:30.095 - 01:03:31.279

Get that serial killer.

Seth

01:03:31.327 - 01:03:36.275

Yeah, it's like that motivational poster kind of thing.

Kyle

01:03:37.495 - 01:03:40.703

Oh, man, I need to work out to Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Seth

01:03:40.759 - 01:03:41.555

There you go.

Kyle

01:03:42.105 - 01:03:42.833

That's amazing.

Drew

01:03:42.889 - 01:03:46.481

We're not saying you should become a serial killer, listeners, but we're saying you should work.

Seth

01:03:46.513 - 01:03:47.673

But if you want to look like one.

Drew

01:03:47.729 - 01:03:53.045

But if you want. Yeah, work out like one. Yeah, work out like someone else's life depends on you.

Kyle

01:03:53.545 - 01:04:26.027

You know what Ed Gein said? That part kills me. What did he say? I don't know if I want to take her out to dinner or put her head on a stick.

What's amazing is Ed Gein is the inspiration for every slasher, basically. Like, it's amazing. All right. It's looks like it is. Yeah. Four to zero. We're almost done here. I mean, I knew this would probably be. This.

Probably be a positive film. All right. And this is what you. This is one of your categories. What's in front of us? This includes cinematography, production design, sound, costume.

Just the.

Seth

01:04:26.171 - 01:05:21.001

Those elements, the general look of the film. And it's like, oh, there's so many freaking little details. This is every bit as detailed as a Kubrick film, in my opinion.

Like, literally everything in front of the camera was so well thought out because, like, you go from the stark white of his apartment, and then you end up in Paul Allen's apartment, and it's all these beautiful greens. And. And he's even mad because he knows it's more expensive than his.

Like, they paid attention to the tiny details of what that kind of multi millionaire billionaire culture would look like. What it would look like if you had a more expensive apartment overlooking the park. Like, no, she put. I mean, not just she.

Every single person on this film who had to do with anything in front of the camera did an incredible job.

The cinematography, the way the shots were set up, and the intentionality of the movements and the framing, like, everything was just beautifully thought out. So 100. It's. It's. It's got a one of art.

Kyle

01:05:21.073 - 01:05:21.561

I love that.

Drew

01:05:21.593 - 01:05:51.637

Yeah, I feel. I mean, I feel the same way. I. It's one of those.

I don't know as much about filmmaking and putting things together, but, like, when I'm watching it, I'm like, everything here is believable. It's brought me into its universe. I know We've. As we were reviewing the Crow series, the first couple of movies. We were like, what we're watching.

We could clearly tell the movies where the setting, the set pieces, the costumes. It was further bringing us into the world of the movie. And then we also had the movies where we were like, why is it a western?

Seth

01:05:51.701 - 01:05:52.305

Yeah.

Drew

01:05:52.685 - 01:06:04.993

Like, we're like, like we're like, what is. Like this does this takes me away from the story. It's telling and. But this mov movie, they were very well put together with. So give it all the.

The watermarks.

Kyle

01:06:05.049 - 01:06:13.705

Yeah, I love that. Yeah. I think. And one really interesting note here is that the cinematographer was Andre Sekula who did Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction.

Seth

01:06:13.785 - 01:06:14.905

Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kyle

01:06:14.985 - 01:06:35.367

Which, that was interesting because I didn't know. I've seen this movie so many times, but I didn't know that till this time around because of watching the commentary. And there's one, one of the best.

And I always think about cinematography in the. In the form of images, like stills. Like, this is great camera work, but if you were just to say freeze. What? And there's these beautiful.

And the one that to me is when he's going to meet his. Or before he meets his lawyer.

Seth

01:06:35.431 - 01:06:35.863

Yeah.

Kyle

01:06:35.959 - 01:06:57.177

And he's in his closet picking out the suits. That image, like the lighting, the darkness and like all the suits, but like the, the backdrop is fluorescent, but he's in the darkness.

To me, I was like, boom, there it is. Every movie I'm looking for images and that one stuck out to me.

And once I found out it was the guy that did Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction, it made sense because those movies are so raw.

Seth

01:06:57.241 - 01:06:57.601

Yeah.

Kyle

01:06:57.673 - 01:07:05.881

There's not a lot of like color editing or anything. It's very raw. But he's very great with just like kind of. I don't know how you call it. Frame. The framework.

Seth

01:07:05.953 - 01:07:06.545

The framing. Yeah.

Kyle

01:07:06.585 - 01:07:14.313

Yeah. The framing is just so, like specific. And I'm trying to think of another scene. Oh, I just think the fact that this is a six million dollar movie.

Seth

01:07:14.369 - 01:07:14.721

Yeah.

Kyle

01:07:14.793 - 01:07:18.489

And it's a time period piece. I mean, they're doing an 80s movie in 2000.

Seth

01:07:18.537 - 01:07:18.787

Like.

Kyle

01:07:18.841 - 01:07:20.975

Yeah, yeah. And that's a costly decision.

Seth

01:07:21.055 - 01:07:21.551

Yeah.

Kyle

01:07:21.663 - 01:07:34.063

And they, you know, they didn't have enough money to really make it look because they didn't like have a lot. You didn't see a lot of vehicles. And there's a lot of things they couldn't show you.

The only thing that really did feel like 80s that they spent money on was the food.

Seth

01:07:34.119 - 01:07:35.447

Like the food and the costumes.

Kyle

01:07:35.511 - 01:07:35.735

Yeah.

Seth

01:07:35.775 - 01:07:39.783

The suits were very 80s. The coats. Everybody's was wearing in the hairstyles.

Kyle

01:07:39.839 - 01:07:54.033

Yeah. And Those were definitely like 80s power lunch rust restaurants. Like, like they, they. The. A good.

Like the great visual representation of everything was so limited in budget, but they did. They made great choices to live within that $6 million.

Seth

01:07:54.089 - 01:07:54.441

Yeah.

Drew

01:07:54.513 - 01:08:22.719

I also think. I feel like even in watching everything they did kind of have a less just like with the acting and the storytelling.

The less is more like they probably were very intentional with what they did to make it look 80s, but they also probably didn't think we have to cover everything. They were like what the camp like with the. What they're filming.

They're like, like if we just film in a couple buildings and these certain things, we don't have to afford all this other stuff because they were, you know, they. They didn't. In grand scheme of things, they weren't using a ton of money there.

Seth

01:08:22.887 - 01:08:32.311

I don't know. I. In.

In my opinion, I think the costume designers and the set designers, like the production designers killed themselves to get every little detail right.

Kyle

01:08:32.343 - 01:08:32.647

Yeah.

Seth

01:08:32.711 - 01:08:39.567

Because it's one of those. You could take any frame from that movie with a lot of stuff going on and you're not going to find one single thing out of place.

Kyle

01:08:39.631 - 01:08:39.919

Yeah.

Seth

01:08:39.967 - 01:08:59.271

You're not going to be like, oh, that telephone was actually a wireless telephone that was made in like the 2000s. Every little freaking detail, even down to like, I'm sure like the club bathrooms they were in just felt like the 80s.

So now I personally think there was like significant thought put into every frame and every.

Drew

01:08:59.383 - 01:09:07.259

It's not that I wasn't saying that they didn't put all the thought into it. I'm saying that they knew how to do it in a way where they didn't need a ton of things like.

Seth

01:09:07.307 - 01:09:08.219

Yeah, okay. Okay.

Drew

01:09:08.267 - 01:09:16.851

It be interesting to see how many places they filmed at that they probably were very intentional about using a few places that they could dress differently.

Seth

01:09:16.963 - 01:09:21.171

It seemed, if I remember correctly, there's only like 20 or 30 locations.

Kyle

01:09:21.243 - 01:09:21.811

Yeah, yeah.

Seth

01:09:21.843 - 01:09:23.651

Because they keep going to a lot of places.

Kyle

01:09:23.683 - 01:09:25.403

The apartment buildings, the offices.

Seth

01:09:25.459 - 01:09:26.259

Yeah, yeah.

Kyle

01:09:26.387 - 01:09:34.753

And the restaurants. Yeah, yeah. Those clubs annoyed the piss out of me, by the way. I would never want.

Not like I was mad at the movie, but I was just like that that's a place I would never want to be.

Drew

01:09:34.889 - 01:09:36.153

I hate everyone who's there.

Seth

01:09:36.209 - 01:09:37.865

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Drew

01:09:37.945 - 01:09:53.313

And actually, I guess this is also in testament to. We're saying that this gets. I'm feeling like we're saying this gets a watermark.

I didn't know When I watched this movie, I didn't pick up that it was filmed in 2000. I thought it was older because of what I was looking at.

Kyle

01:09:53.369 - 01:10:09.349

Yeah. So, yeah, that was a choice they made to keep in the 80s. And, you know, some of that was the Reaganomics that drove the yuppie ism of that era.

So that's kind of what, you know, kind of why they focused on that. But. But. All right. It even has a watermark. Five, zero. You're killing me. The kills.

Seth

01:10:09.397 - 01:10:10.025

Yeah.

Kyle

01:10:10.725 - 01:10:33.049

Now I want to put this. Yeah, I, like. I had to, like, change that from po. I hate the poetic killings because it was crow related.

I'm just so fucking over the crow, but you're killing me. The kills. Now, I do want to put this in light. Like, this was marketed almost as a slasher. A lot of people came in to see it.

So whether you want to judge it for what it is or with the idea that it was almost sold as a slasher movie. So take that as you will.

Seth

01:10:33.197 - 01:10:48.913

I mean. Yeah, I think it was so well done. The as. As we were saying earlier, like, the fact that they didn't go over the top until they really needed to.

Which to me, the only genuine over the top moment was when he's going down on the girl and just starts eating her.

Kyle

01:10:48.969 - 01:10:49.297

Yeah.

Seth

01:10:49.361 - 01:10:53.801

Like, physically eating her. That, to me, was like the. The moment that I was like, what? The actual.

Kyle

01:10:53.833 - 01:10:55.321

Yeah. Thank you for not showing it too.

Seth

01:10:55.353 - 01:10:55.681

Yes.

Kyle

01:10:55.753 - 01:10:56.345

Dear God.

Seth

01:10:56.425 - 01:11:03.235

But it was. It was, like, so wild and over the top, but it was still so understated. Like, it wasn't something crazy. Like it could.

Drew

01:11:03.275 - 01:11:11.011

I'm so glad they understate. And I feel like people who are really into the book probably would have watched that, like, man. If you knew the rest of what he was doing. Yeah.

Kyle

01:11:11.123 - 01:11:11.587

Oh, yeah.

Seth

01:11:11.651 - 01:11:44.765

But, yeah, it's one of those where it's like, even down to him killing Jared Leto. Like, that scene has become so iconic because of how much they left up to your imagination.

They didn't try to go because I literally, right after watching American Psycho, my roommate and I watched Friday the 13th, and I'd never seen it before, and it's like they could have gone that over the top with axes physically in people's faces and all the crazy gore and. But they didn't. They made, like, very conscious decisions to keep it as understated as possible. So. Yeah. Watermarks all the way.

Kyle

01:11:44.925 - 01:11:45.429

I would.

Drew

01:11:45.477 - 01:12:03.655

I enjoyed. I'll give it a watermark for myself. Like, I thought the. I thought, like, the chainsaw. This Chainsaw killing was my favorite. Yeah. AX1.

I mean, that was. That was iconic. I mean, like, even I've seen other things do that because of that scene.

You know, I've seen that same movie scene in other movies because of this movie.

Seth

01:12:03.695 - 01:12:04.295

Yeah.

Drew

01:12:04.455 - 01:12:30.431

And then, of course, there's like, the weird, like, the opening the fridge and wasn't there, like, a head? And there's all kinds of. I'm wondering. I'm so. I'm not really a slasher film person, though. I don't enjoy them. I don't go out to watch them.

So I'm wondering if a slasher fan would watch this if they were to go into here being like, man, I can't wait to see this slasher movie. If they would think it was, like, almost not enough. Because I think the appeal of this movie was the psychological.

Kyle

01:12:30.543 - 01:12:31.287

Yeah, yeah.

Drew

01:12:31.351 - 01:12:32.991

Terror in it, you know, I think.

Seth

01:12:33.023 - 01:12:34.295

They wouldn't like it like that.

Kyle

01:12:34.415 - 01:12:34.903

Yeah.

Drew

01:12:34.999 - 01:12:45.075

So. So I.

I feel comfortable for me giving a watermark for my own preferences, but I also realize it's like asking an Amish person their opinions on, like, the new iPhone.

Kyle

01:12:47.205 - 01:12:49.517

So what do you think of the new imessage?

Seth

01:12:49.581 - 01:12:50.165

Yeah.

Kyle

01:12:50.325 - 01:12:50.885

Butter.

Drew

01:12:50.965 - 01:12:51.365

Yeah.

Seth

01:12:51.445 - 01:12:53.945

I'm sure they've all heard Amish Paradise. Okay.

Kyle

01:12:54.645 - 01:12:55.705

Absolutely.

Drew

01:12:56.245 - 01:12:56.957

Great song.

Kyle

01:12:57.021 - 01:13:06.893

Yeah. And that's exactly what the issue was. It's. It's weak reception.

A lot of people showed up thinking it was a slasher and were disappointed when it wasn't. Some people didn't know what to expect, and they didn't pick up on the jokes.

Drew

01:13:06.989 - 01:13:07.365

Right.

Kyle

01:13:07.445 - 01:13:31.881

So there was a lot of confusion about what this movie was. But I do. I do give it the watermark here. I think they're. They're interesting. It's just enough. It's. I don't think they did it.

There's so much in the book that was so over the top and so grotesque. Like, there's one part where he's, like, towards the end when he's stewing heads in a pot and eating brains, and he's. He's. When he.

When he alludes to eating brains in the movie, like, that was happening at a wide scale in the book.

Drew

01:13:31.913 - 01:13:33.417

Or maybe it wasn't.

Kyle

01:13:33.601 - 01:14:00.017

Yeah, yeah. And there was a part in the book where there's just bodies everywhere and, like, he's having to, like, step over body parts, and he's just like.

He's, like, created this layer of dead BO. Like, it's just. Yeah, they. They focused on the right things here to make this appealing on screen. And I think the kills are A big part of that. So.

Yeah, again, I don't watch this movie because of the kills. And I think they serve a good purpose because they're. They're what you said, they're enhancing the psychological elements.

Drew

01:14:00.201 - 01:14:10.661

So maybe if the. There was another category that was like marketing of the movie, we would give it a.

Not watermark because the people were going into it expecting one thing and they got something. Something different.

Seth

01:14:10.733 - 01:14:16.933

And that at that point, you. You blame the executives in the studios because once the movie's done, it's out of the director's hand. They have no.

Kyle

01:14:16.989 - 01:14:17.381

Yeah.

Seth

01:14:17.453 - 01:14:21.125

No control over the previews, no control over the marketing. So. Yeah.

Kyle

01:14:21.205 - 01:14:27.357

Yeah. And they knew they were in uncharted water anyway. I mean, they. They knew they were marketing a movie based on a book that created so much division.

Drew

01:14:27.421 - 01:14:48.419

Yeah, but that, like, this feels like it. This is an indie plot. This is not like this would. No major. Anything would be like, this seems like a good idea. Yeah, but that's why we have.

That's why we have indie filmmakers and indie books is because there are still some great stories that just maybe the mainstream people aren't ready for. Yeah, that's okay.

Kyle

01:14:48.547 - 01:15:25.969

Love it. All right, so this is kind of a creative, timely category, given the. Given. The reason we ended up doing this is 6 to 0.

This category is called Give it the Boot. Now, stick with me because there's a little bit of reverse psychology in answering this. So this is the idea. Should this movie be remade?

But if you say yes, then that's a negative because that means they didn't. They didn't do. They didn't deliver on it, and it should be remake because they didn't tell the story.

If you say no, that's actually affirmative because you feel like, given what you know, I know you're not going to read the book, but given on what I've told you in the controversy that they told the best story they possibly could, does that make sense?

Seth

01:15:26.017 - 01:15:27.977

Yeah. We'll start with you.

Drew

01:15:28.041 - 01:16:12.733

Yeah. I don't know if this. In this answer, it's like, I don't know if I.

I don't know if I'm passionate enough about this particular movie and book to really have a strong opinion on it. But my first thought is I don't think they need to make a remake for it. I think the story. The story that they told, my. Hopefully I would think.

Again, I don't know because I'm not going to read the book.

But I would think that the essence of what the book was about, the message it was trying to send across to the story that it was telling, while a lot more graphic, a lot more gory, a lot more going on. But, I mean, they had a lot more space with words, and you can make it longer.

I feel like based off of what people have told me, the essence of the story is the same in both.

Seth

01:16:12.829 - 01:16:13.085

Yeah.

Drew

01:16:13.125 - 01:16:26.219

And if that's the case, I don't think they need to do a remake because. And then part of me. Because, A, I don't think they'll do it any better. B, I am so tired of reboots.

Seth

01:16:26.267 - 01:16:26.491

Yeah.

Kyle

01:16:26.523 - 01:16:26.739

Yeah.

Drew

01:16:26.787 - 01:16:43.075

Because more often than not, they. I mean, with the reference being the Crow 2024, the reboots are not good.

And I feel like we're in a state with movies right now where we need less reboots and more original stories.

Seth

01:16:43.155 - 01:16:43.731

Agreed.

Drew

01:16:43.843 - 01:16:48.131

So I'm gonna. What's the. What's the opposite of the watermark?

Kyle

01:16:48.203 - 01:16:55.035

So you would say. So you would say no. So it has a watermark because it was good. You feel like was done. Sorry, sorry. It's a little confusing.

Drew

01:16:55.375 - 01:17:00.015

I feel like if you sat down and you were like, what's the most complicated way of creating category You've.

Kyle

01:17:00.055 - 01:17:08.103

Yeah, because I was thinking when I made the category, I was like, well, if they say no, that would be considered a negative. But it's not negative because you're saying they did a damn good job. So I was like, so I'm gonna.

Drew

01:17:08.119 - 01:17:11.383

Give it a watermark. We don't give. Give the boot. The boot.

Seth

01:17:11.439 - 01:17:11.815

Yeah.

Kyle

01:17:11.895 - 01:17:12.831

Yes. I love that.

Seth

01:17:12.903 - 01:17:47.499

I agree. Give it the watermark. It. It. Again, I haven't read the book.

I'm not going to read the book, but I don't think maybe the only change you could make is having the weird, like, glitches in the Matrix will happen a little sooner. But even then, I don't think that's necessary. I think this movie is so iconic. Like, you should be rebooting movies that were not good.

You should not be rebooting a movie that is so iconic in its particular imagery and try to do it different. Like, why. Why are we doing this? So, no, there should be no reboot.

Drew

01:17:47.587 - 01:17:52.979

I do think the only reason someone would want to reboot is if they were like, I want it to be a slasher movie.

Kyle

01:17:53.067 - 01:17:53.339

Yeah.

Drew

01:17:53.387 - 01:17:56.419

Like, slasher fans would be like, give me something more slash.

Kyle

01:17:56.467 - 01:17:56.771

Yeah.

Seth

01:17:56.843 - 01:18:24.573

Yeah. But even then, I'm just like this again. I feel like it. It's. It's too iconic. It would literally be like if they were gonna try to.

To remake Fight Club, Like, Fight Club's imagery is so specific and iconic like that. To remake that is just needless. Like, why are we taking something that's already great and turning it into something that could only be as great?

It can never get better. So, no, should not be remade. Give it the watermark.

Kyle

01:18:24.629 - 01:19:08.733

Yeah, I totally agree. You actually said kind of something I was thinking, but you said it in a much better way.

My thinking is, if I've learned anything doing this podcast, it's films. Films that face a lot of adversity, have a lot of limitations, are always really great. Not always, but.

But a lot of times, movies like Jaws, the Sharks, never works. So the limited. It turns out that actually not showing the shark a lot benefited the movie. Stuff like that. This movie was made on $6 million.

It doesn't look or feel like a $6 million movie. They made incredible choices. They adapted it the right way. I think they made the right choices when adapting the book.

And the Crow 2024 is a great example. Adding more money to it does not mean it's going to be better. In my experience, it's never like the Point Break movie.

Seth

01:19:08.819 - 01:19:09.113

Yeah.

Kyle

01:19:09.169 - 01:19:11.153

Like, Point Break is like, I've talked to you about it.

Drew

01:19:11.169 - 01:19:11.369

Yeah.

Kyle

01:19:11.417 - 01:19:15.777

That's like, my 10th favorite movie of all time. That remake was.

Drew

01:19:15.921 - 01:19:16.725

It was.

Kyle

01:19:17.145 - 01:19:18.153

It was insulting.

Seth

01:19:18.209 - 01:19:18.441

Yeah.

Kyle

01:19:18.473 - 01:19:20.409

Because there is a Point Break crew out there.

Seth

01:19:20.457 - 01:19:20.673

Oh, yeah.

Kyle

01:19:20.689 - 01:19:21.945

There's just, like the Crow.

Seth

01:19:22.025 - 01:19:22.241

Yeah.

Kyle

01:19:22.273 - 01:19:25.169

There's a group of us out there that are obsessed with that movie still to this day.

Seth

01:19:25.217 - 01:19:25.805

Yeah.

Kyle

01:19:26.345 - 01:19:28.345

Adding more money and more people should.

Drew

01:19:28.385 - 01:19:31.497

Turn into the second season. Episode one of my podcast.

Kyle

01:19:31.601 - 01:19:32.065

Yeah.

Drew

01:19:32.145 - 01:19:33.377

When we review Point Break.

Kyle

01:19:33.441 - 01:19:34.905

Yeah. And I'm going to be there for a baby.

Seth

01:19:34.945 - 01:19:35.717

There you go.

Kyle

01:19:35.881 - 01:19:49.197

But you. You just. When you. When you remove the restraints, it makes them.

I think especially in today, where one of my biggest issues with modern filmmaking, like, like, straight to streaming movies, is they have a really hard time closing the deal.

Seth

01:19:49.261 - 01:19:49.605

Yeah.

Kyle

01:19:49.685 - 01:20:06.641

I don't know if you've noticed it. I love your perspective because you're in filmmaking.

But, like, I've seen so many Netflix movies that start off really good, and then about 60% of the way in it, like, it loses its pace or the ending, like, is bad or I've lost interest. Like, they are. I just find they don't know how to close the deal.

Seth

01:20:06.713 - 01:20:18.193

Yeah.

They have a lot of great concepts, and they put all the work into the concept, but then once they get the deal, they're like, all right, you've got this amount of time to get ready to go.

Kyle

01:20:18.249 - 01:20:18.601

Yeah.

Seth

01:20:18.673 - 01:20:30.107

And for whatever reason, whether the script was done or not, they just. They tend to pick these cool movies that'll look cool, but they don't really care about the final lacked as much.

And that's definitely been a trend recently.

Kyle

01:20:30.251 - 01:20:40.259

Yeah. And just. That's so well said. And just because they're. They're getting more money to make it doesn't mean they're spending it on the right things.

Like the Crow 2024, when you find out they're doing a lot of the scenes in that led.

Seth

01:20:40.427 - 01:20:40.867

Yeah.

Kyle

01:20:40.931 - 01:20:47.395

Thing. Like, it's cool and it looks pretty cool, but it's also like, you got more money, but you still did the cheapest thing.

Seth

01:20:47.435 - 01:20:47.651

Yeah.

Kyle

01:20:47.683 - 01:20:55.099

And there's two. Two really quick examples where we close up. Like, we actually had. Speaking about.

We had a piece of content go viral where you were talking about how that was a slap in the face of Crow fans.

Seth

01:20:55.147 - 01:20:55.735

Yeah.

Kyle

01:20:56.355 - 01:21:05.779

They were talking where they aimed it at Jen's ears. And I was like. And that point was so pointy because I was like, as a fan again, it's just a movie. Yeah.

But we obviously kind of like movies in this room.

Drew

01:21:05.867 - 01:21:06.443

Yeah.

Kyle

01:21:06.579 - 01:21:13.707

It was kind of punching the guts. Like, oh, like you weren't even thinking about me. Yeah. The guy that's obsessed with the Crow.

Seth

01:21:13.771 - 01:21:14.043

Yeah.

Kyle

01:21:14.099 - 01:21:25.645

Like you. So you didn't even care. So this really was either just a cash grab or you actually didn't care about the old fans. Yeah, that sucks.

And then I interviewed Peter Iliff, who wrote Point Break. He shat on that remake.

Seth

01:21:26.265 - 01:21:26.889

He actually.

Kyle

01:21:26.937 - 01:22:02.107

You go listen to it. I have an interview with Peter Iliff. He's amazing. He wrote Point Break, Varsity Blues, Patriot Games. Incredible writer. And he was talking about.

He was like. I asked him about his name being attached to it.

He's like, well, they had to put my name on it because I wrote the original one, but trust me, it was dog shit. Right. And so I was like, even the people that are, you know, that make the original, like, they also weren't. They're not considering them either.

This is like, these are truly, like. It's hard to accept that the things that. And maybe it's always been a little bit about cash, but it's progressively with these remakes.

These are cash grabs 100%. They are not considering how you feel about the original. And that hurts.

Drew

01:22:02.291 - 01:22:09.563

The best positive way they could maybe spin it is like, we're trying to find a new audience for this story.

Seth

01:22:09.739 - 01:22:17.273

But even then you're not going to give it the longevity it deserves unless you're bringing along the people who made it what it was.

Kyle

01:22:17.329 - 01:22:28.841

Yeah. That's another thing they're gonna have to consider with the American Cycle reboot is like.

Are, like, are they gonna make the choice to keep it in the 80s? Or they. I even had this horrible thought. Stupid thought. I was like, oh, God forbid they make this a Silicon Valley story.

Seth

01:22:28.913 - 01:22:30.401

Oh, no. I had the exact same thing.

Kyle

01:22:30.473 - 01:22:31.145

You thought that too.

Seth

01:22:31.185 - 01:22:31.601

I did.

Kyle

01:22:31.673 - 01:22:41.465

I was like, God, they're gonna make this a Zuckerberg type of person or some, like, you know, somebody that made an app or something. Like, if they do that, I'm out. Not just the movies. I'm out of this planet.

Drew

01:22:41.505 - 01:22:53.333

Yeah. I think that would be hilarious to review in the same way that Wicked Prayer was not because, like, this was such a great movie. It would be more.

Can you believe that someone sat down and thought, let's do this?

Seth

01:22:53.389 - 01:23:03.149

Yeah. I just. Every time someone. Some actor is playing a rich character and they're just like, oh, I just. I just decided I was gonna be. You know what?

I think Elon Musk is like.

Kyle

01:23:03.237 - 01:23:03.485

Yeah.

Seth

01:23:03.525 - 01:23:22.725

I'm immediately like, you're gonna do a shitty job because you're not. You're taking the lazy way out out.

You're taking someone that, A, you probably hate, and, B, someone who's significantly in the public eye, so who's genuinely different than the rest of the culture. You're just taking the lazy way out. So it's probably gonna suck if that's what you're trying to base everything on.

Drew

01:23:22.765 - 01:23:25.069

At least look at three different really rich people.

Kyle

01:23:25.117 - 01:23:25.629

Yeah.

Seth

01:23:25.757 - 01:23:34.673

But don't look at the ones who are on TV all the time. Mark Cuban does not accurately represent the. The billionaire who doesn't want to be famous.

Kyle

01:23:34.729 - 01:23:35.121

Oh, yeah.

Seth

01:23:35.193 - 01:23:43.705

Who doesn't want to be in front of the cameras. So it's like. No, I think it's insanely lazy when you just pick the most famous rich person you can think of.

Kyle

01:23:43.745 - 01:23:44.153

Yeah.

Seth

01:23:44.249 - 01:23:46.881

And try to emulate what you see on tv.

Kyle

01:23:46.993 - 01:23:57.393

Yeah. Because so many. Yeah. Like, it reminds me, you remember Stephen Wright, one of my favorite comedians of all time? He had that amazing joke.

He said he's dating this rich girl. Her dad was the guy that designed the diagram that tells you how to put batteries in things.

Seth

01:23:57.449 - 01:23:58.045

Yeah.

Kyle

01:23:58.745 - 01:24:07.175

Like, it's a hilarious joke because it's like. Like, all of a sudden, you have to remember, like, oh, yeah. Someone had to do that. And that's not a Mark Cuban. That's some guy that's like.

Seth

01:24:07.255 - 01:24:09.167

And he became a billionaire off of that.

Kyle

01:24:09.231 - 01:24:11.783

Yeah. And he's happy that you don't know his name.

Seth

01:24:11.839 - 01:24:12.143

Yeah.

Kyle

01:24:12.199 - 01:24:13.615

You know, so. That's such a good point.

Drew

01:24:13.655 - 01:24:14.235

Yeah.

Kyle

01:24:14.975 - 01:24:27.191

Well, we'll see. This got us. We just put the ax in. The confession has meant nothing. We didn't even get to use my kitschy title. But seven to zero, man. Like, this is.

This was. This is good stuff. And it's a good movie.

Drew

01:24:27.263 - 01:24:31.135

I mean, this would be. This would be a hard one to come up with. Like, things to not like about it.

Seth

01:24:31.175 - 01:24:31.567

Yeah.

Kyle

01:24:31.671 - 01:24:38.359

Well, let us know what you think about this reboot coming out. I'd be interested to hear about your thoughts, but next week, Seth's taking us through one of his favorite movies.

Seth

01:24:38.447 - 01:24:43.439

Absolutely. It's a little Australian movie called Upgrade. So excited to get y'all into it.

Kyle

01:24:43.527 - 01:24:46.607

Can't wait. All right, thank y'all. Don't kill anybody. Love you.

Seth

01:24:46.671 - 01:24:47.463

Love you, too.

Drew

01:24:47.599 - 01:24:48.315

Bye.

Seth

01:24:49.095 - 01:24:50.055

Movie Wars.