The Shining (1980)
Seth
00:00:00.160 - 00:00:19.624
Foreign. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Movie wars podcast, back with Seth and Mariana. How we doing, you two? How we doing?
Mariana
00:00:19.712 - 00:00:20.104
Good.
Seth
00:00:20.192 - 00:00:22.664
So glad to see you. We're entering the holiday season.
Mariana
00:00:22.752 - 00:00:23.112
Yeah.
Seth
00:00:23.176 - 00:00:24.760
We're celebrating with the Shining.
Mariana
00:00:24.840 - 00:00:25.624
Getting cozy.
Seth
00:00:25.672 - 00:00:26.888
Getting cozy.
Marianna
00:00:26.984 - 00:00:28.232
My favorite Christmas movie.
Seth
00:00:28.296 - 00:00:29.720
Yes. It's got snow in it.
Mariana
00:00:29.760 - 00:00:31.224
I mean, snow lights.
Seth
00:00:31.272 - 00:00:31.592
Yeah.
Mariana
00:00:31.656 - 00:00:31.932
Yeah.
Seth
00:00:31.976 - 00:00:35.684
I'm not into the seasonal movies. People like, are you going to do any Christmas movies? I'm like, no.
Mariana
00:00:35.772 - 00:00:44.772
The only one I do is the Night before with Seth Rogen and Anthony Mackie and Joseph Gordon Levitt, where they go to the big Christmas party. Yeah, that one's a great one. I love seeing Seth Rogen on mushrooms.
Seth
00:00:44.836 - 00:00:47.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You like seeing Seth Rogen in any way?
Mariana
00:00:47.260 - 00:00:47.908
I mean, kind of.
Seth
00:00:47.964 - 00:00:49.428
And ordering things from him.
Mariana
00:00:49.484 - 00:00:49.860
Yeah.
Seth
00:00:49.940 - 00:00:53.060
Buying things from him. Your item came that you talked about in the last podcast.
Mariana
00:00:53.140 - 00:00:58.626
I do have the car lighter now. It's quite nice. Thank you, House plant. Be a sponsor. Yeah.
Seth
00:00:58.738 - 00:01:01.154
We should hit him up because we've given a lot of free marketing.
Mariana
00:01:01.202 - 00:01:01.950
We have.
Seth
00:01:02.410 - 00:01:11.670
Yeah. Well, I'm so stoked. And you. You told me that you're a big Kubrick fan, so tell me about your connection with Kubrick. Why is he so top five for you?
How do you connect with this stuff?
Marianna
00:01:12.250 - 00:01:42.894
That's. The funny thing is, like, I.
I kind of watched 2001 by accident, which is my favorite Kubrick movie, and I just remember being, like, in a trance when I was watching it, because it was something I'd never seen before, and I got to see it in a theater in, like, you know, 2012 or something. Then I've seen it about eight times in the theater and one time with the New York Philharmonic playing along with it.
So I guess it's just like, I had this big appreciation for just how he does things.
Seth
00:01:42.982 - 00:01:43.342
Yeah.
Mariana
00:01:43.406 - 00:01:49.758
Very nice. I still haven't seen that one. That one. It's on my list, but I've got. I got a friend that I have to watch it with. Like, we've made a pact, so.
Seth
00:01:49.814 - 00:01:51.918
Yeah, it's brilliant. Yeah, it's brilliant.
Mariana
00:01:52.014 - 00:02:05.076
My first introduction to the Shining was actually through 30 seconds to Mars music video for the Killer, where they. They basically, like, did a version of the Shining along with it. Jared Leto is, like, yelling at another version of himself. It's a good time.
Seth
00:02:05.148 - 00:02:05.540
Wow.
Mariana
00:02:05.620 - 00:02:05.876
Yeah.
Seth
00:02:05.908 - 00:02:06.164
Wow.
Mariana
00:02:06.212 - 00:02:07.140
You didn't know this is a thing.
Seth
00:02:07.180 - 00:02:07.428
No.
Mariana
00:02:07.484 - 00:02:08.596
Oh, yeah. It's a beautiful music.
Seth
00:02:08.668 - 00:02:10.804
I dropped off of music videos a long time ago.
Mariana
00:02:10.892 - 00:02:12.580
I mean, this was 2006, the last.
Seth
00:02:12.620 - 00:02:29.092
Popular music video I Remember, like, enjoying was the thriller. Yeah. I'm an old man. No, I think it was back Loser. That's the last popular music video I remember supporting in any way. Carson Daly.
Mariana
00:02:29.156 - 00:02:29.860
There you go.
Seth
00:02:29.980 - 00:02:33.028
Well, I'm stoked to do the Shining. This is a top 10 movie for me.
Mariana
00:02:33.084 - 00:02:33.732
Okay.
Seth
00:02:33.876 - 00:02:57.586
And also I think the one thing I enjoy more than the movie itself is the beef between Stephen King and Stanley Kubrick. I did an old podcast, an hour long podcast detailing every element of this. It can go back to refer to.
I'll do a watered down version here, but, you know, the Shining was autobiographical for Stephen King in a lot of ways. Jack Torrance in the book is this alcoholic struggling. He's a rage aholic in the book.
Mariana
00:02:57.658 - 00:02:58.194
Yeah.
Seth
00:02:58.322 - 00:03:42.236
And he's actually, in some ways, even though he has these ailments, he's. He does a.
He goes a long way to demonstrate Jack Torrance as a sympathetic figure, someone who's, you know, who might be on a path to redemption, which is totally different than Jack Nicholson's portrayal. But because this is so autobiographical, Stephen King took it very personally what Kubrick did to the source material, you know, and Stephen.
And I agree with Stanley Kubrick. Listen, I read the book again for the podcast and I read it two times before. The bones are very interesting. The very interesting bones.
But Stephen King has. He likes to telegraph a lot of things and he has a lot of inconsistent character writing. Danny in the book is one of the most.
He's one of the worst written characters ever.
Mariana
00:03:42.308 - 00:03:42.636
Okay.
Seth
00:03:42.668 - 00:03:48.652
Like, like, you can tell Stephen King's forcing a lot of things because, like, in one sentence, like, supposed to believe Danny is this, like, super smart kid.
Mariana
00:03:48.716 - 00:03:49.100
Yeah.
Seth
00:03:49.180 - 00:04:06.796
In the book. And he's like. He's like, what are those things called? We have bad dreams at night. And Halloran's like, you mean nightmares. But then.
But then in another scene, Danny knows what epilepsy is and he's able to describe epilepsy, but he doesn't. He's a kid. He doesn't know what the word nightmare is. And so there's just. There's just all. And it's. It's for the sake of cheesy dialogue.
Mariana
00:04:06.828 - 00:04:07.276
Yeah.
Seth
00:04:07.388 - 00:04:38.810
And so. And the book is a lot different. The bones are very similar. But, you know, the book was released in 1977.
The first two books that, that King had written were Salem's Lot and Carrie. And those really caught a lot of popularity on screen. Those were slow. The Shining was the first book that was instantly popular for King.
And so that's when he became Stephen King, the author of the Shining, and he got a lot of popularity. We meet him at cocktail parties where he would drink everything because he had drinking a lot during this time.
Mariana
00:04:39.660 - 00:04:40.548
A lot of blow.
Seth
00:04:40.644 - 00:04:46.084
Yeah, a lot of blow. A lot of pills. And he says a lot of NyQuil. Apparently. I didn't know. Maybe that was the night Gap.
Mariana
00:04:46.132 - 00:04:48.564
Doesn't he say that? He doesn't remember writing Cujo.
Seth
00:04:48.612 - 00:04:49.028
That's right.
Mariana
00:04:49.084 - 00:04:49.460
Yeah.
Seth
00:04:49.540 - 00:04:52.372
Thank you. This ad brought to you by nyquil.
Mariana
00:04:52.436 - 00:04:53.080
Yes.
Seth
00:04:54.460 - 00:05:08.462
Cocaine. But, you know. And so when Kubrick cast Nicholson, he was like, what?
You know, it was because, you know, he had One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest already and it gave this. But even before the film came out, like, I guess we're just going to start crazy.
Mariana
00:05:08.526 - 00:05:08.862
Yeah.
Seth
00:05:08.926 - 00:05:26.766
Because in the book, you know, he relates so much to Torrance as the sympathetic figure who has a humanity, and he feel like he took the soul out of it in a lot of ways with that. And also. And this was very common back in the day, authors would get bigger.
Would get bigger payouts when they sold their rights by getting the first right to write the screenplay.
Mariana
00:05:26.798 - 00:05:27.054
Yeah.
Seth
00:05:27.102 - 00:05:46.786
Peter Benchley with Jaws did this, and Spielberg was nicer about it, but he. He kindly rejected it. Where Stanley Kubrick didn't just kindly reject it. He threw it away.
And he was interviewed about who is writing the film with, and he said, we're writing it with Diane Johnson. And he used the term a real American author. After throwing.
Mariana
00:05:46.898 - 00:05:49.906
So from moment one, it was just fuck you.
Seth
00:05:49.978 - 00:06:02.482
Yeah. So much about this movie was. I think Stanley Kubrick was trying to.
And he did this to a lot of people, to Scatman Carruthers, to Shelley Duvall, to Stephen King was. He wanted to be the most intelligent.
Mariana
00:06:02.546 - 00:06:02.974
Yeah, He.
Seth
00:06:03.002 - 00:06:57.850
He wanted to be the smartest person in every situation. And so many of these people in that he subjected to a lot of this stuff was based on his own personal struggles.
But he wanted King to know that he was smarter than he was. And so there are. There are all these little things. And then what happened was after the movie comes out and. And it comes. You know, it gets.
It was slow, but the Shining, eventually the film would get. You know, become an iconic film. And then all of a sudden, people referring to it as Stanley Kubrick's the Shining.
And so it's no longer Stephen King's hallmark. And a lot of the problem is that a lot of the Hallmark imagery that we. What do you associate with the Shining?
The elevator, the blood, the twins, the carpet. Yeah, The Carpet. So many of these things were. Kubrick create the maze. The maze.
It's funny because eventually King would go on in 97 to make a help make a straight for TV1. This was his redemption. He was going to make a true to the material. Four and a half hours on tv.
Mariana
00:06:58.000 - 00:06:58.534
Geez.
Seth
00:06:58.582 - 00:07:16.214
There are. In the book, there are hedge maze animals. There's not a maze. They're hedge maze animals. And they come to life and they try to attack people.
In the book, he put it in the show with television budget cgi. Kubrick knew from the get go. He's like, this would never look good. No, never. And so they did the maze.
Mariana
00:07:16.262 - 00:07:19.414
And honestly, I don't think it's even that cool of an idea for a book.
Seth
00:07:19.502 - 00:07:19.814
Yeah.
Mariana
00:07:19.862 - 00:07:21.046
Like, that just sounds lame.
Seth
00:07:21.158 - 00:07:39.262
Yeah. Oh, it's so lame. It's one of the lamest parts of the book, you know, to close it out. What ended up happening is that King kind of.
I say it ruined his. It didn't ruin his career fully, but when it came to television rights and films, he became more of a control freak. He had to be on set.
He wanted to be always making sure that people were staying true to his material.
Mariana
00:07:39.326 - 00:07:39.662
Yeah.
Seth
00:07:39.726 - 00:08:00.486
And so what ends up happening is that Stephen King cheese that happens. Gets put into these. These shows. It cheapens his own work. And it's all because of this.
This standoff that he had with Kubrick, you know, over the Shining. And so I do think it ended up impacting him negatively because he cheapened his own work for basically the rest of his career.
He wasn't involved in it. The remake, which I think is why it's pretty good.
Mariana
00:08:00.558 - 00:08:05.542
Yeah. How involved was he with the TV version?
Seth
00:08:05.686 - 00:08:07.350
With it, he was very heavily involved.
Mariana
00:08:07.430 - 00:08:13.126
It's actually pretty good because everyone tells me that that's like the most iconic one. I haven't seen it. I don't know if I want to see it.
Seth
00:08:13.198 - 00:08:14.934
It's pretty good. He was more of an advisor.
Mariana
00:08:14.982 - 00:08:15.334
Okay.
Seth
00:08:15.382 - 00:08:18.250
He eventually, though, with the Langoliers. Tommyknockers.
Mariana
00:08:19.000 - 00:08:19.824
What a name.
Seth
00:08:19.912 - 00:08:26.416
Yeah. Tommy Knockers. Yeah. He eventually would be. Be basically a faux producer.
Mariana
00:08:26.528 - 00:08:26.976
Okay.
Seth
00:08:27.008 - 00:08:39.008
But anyway, that's the very short version. There's a lot of details in the story, but, yeah, I. I think it's an interesting beef. And yeah, this is a top 10 film for me. I think it's.
I mean, I don't even. I don't know what I could say about that. Hasn't been said, you know, fair.
Mariana
00:08:39.064 - 00:08:45.818
There is a. There's quite a lot. Good. I'm sure we'll get to it later when we get to the scorecard. But I. There. There are some issues I do have with it.
Seth
00:08:45.874 - 00:09:17.106
Yeah. Oh, yeah, there are some. There are some glaring. Yeah, there are some things. But, you know, Kubrick's attention to detail, you know, and there.
There are a lot of ways to interpret Kubrick, how he operates. You know, you hear multiple stories like, Jack Nicholson loved working for Kubrick. He loved.
He loved doing 140 takes because he wanted to be driven to the point of insanity. Shelley Duvall was not a technical actor. She was a character actress. The same year that this came out, she portrayed Olive Oil in the Popeye movie.
Oh, yeah, that was. Oh, yeah.
Mariana
00:09:17.138 - 00:09:17.474
Okay.
Seth
00:09:17.522 - 00:09:19.154
Those were her types of films.
Mariana
00:09:19.202 - 00:09:19.618
Yeah.
Marianna
00:09:19.714 - 00:09:21.410
This was like her first serious role, wasn't it?
Seth
00:09:21.450 - 00:09:46.780
It was, yeah. And, you know, and Kubrick pushed her to the brink. There's all these stories about Scatman Carruthers crying on set. There was a. The.
The record is still had or still held by this film. 148 takes for the ice cream scene with Danny and Halloran. Oh, that took 148 takes. And it kind of.
If you ask some people, Kubrick wanted to punish Carothers. He didn't think he was a talented actor. He was older.
Mariana
00:09:46.940 - 00:09:48.316
Why cast him then?
Seth
00:09:48.388 - 00:10:05.580
Yeah, because. Because of Jack Nicholson. So they were going to recast. This is another crazy thing.
They were going to recast Halloin as a white actor, and he had an actor in mind. And then Jack Nicholson was the one that said, you need to hire Scatman. He's my friend. They were friends.
And so he was the one that got Carothers in there so much. He does. He's wonderful.
Mariana
00:10:05.660 - 00:10:11.572
Yeah. I loved him. He's. He. He and Jack Nicholson, honestly, were the only two characters that I enjoyed watching.
Seth
00:10:11.636 - 00:10:14.020
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting.
Mariana
00:10:14.100 - 00:10:18.820
Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah. Like I said, when we get. When we get to that part, I've got plenty to say there.
Seth
00:10:18.940 - 00:10:34.296
It's gonna get feisty in here. You know, but there is so much about. You know, it's hard when you hear about how hard.
Because, you know, Shelley Duvall did eventually, you know, she's. She just died not too long ago, but she had mental struggles and later in life. And some people do pin it on Kubrick.
Mariana
00:10:34.328 - 00:10:34.632
Yeah.
Seth
00:10:34.696 - 00:10:35.672
I mean, some people.
Mariana
00:10:35.776 - 00:10:42.536
I mean, kind of like with Eyes Wide Shut, Kubrick is kind of blamed for ending Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise's relationship there.
Seth
00:10:42.608 - 00:10:42.952
Yeah.
Mariana
00:10:43.016 - 00:10:49.736
So, I mean, he is definitely known for putting his actors through the ringer to get whatever Little thing he's looking for.
Seth
00:10:49.808 - 00:10:50.968
Yes. Yeah.
Marianna
00:10:51.064 - 00:10:52.776
I hate how much it worked, though.
Seth
00:10:52.848 - 00:10:53.144
Yeah.
Mariana
00:10:53.192 - 00:10:54.060
Seriously.
Marianna
00:10:54.720 - 00:10:56.344
I mean, like, he had a point.
Mariana
00:10:56.432 - 00:10:56.792
Yeah.
Marianna
00:10:56.856 - 00:10:59.912
I kind of wish it didn't drive people completely insane.
Mariana
00:10:59.976 - 00:11:00.462
Yeah.
Marianna
00:11:00.576 - 00:11:03.842
But at the same time, I mean, Eyes Wide Shut's one of my favorite movies.
Mariana
00:11:03.906 - 00:11:09.570
It's incredible. And I mean, even. Even Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman still talk very positively about that experience in that movie.
Marianna
00:11:09.650 - 00:11:18.434
Yeah.
Well, I think that actually share shows you, like, how good of a relationship they actually had because, you know, how could you be in that good of terms if you hated the other person.
Mariana
00:11:18.522 - 00:11:18.994
Exactly.
Marianna
00:11:19.042 - 00:11:27.762
But that movie is just incredible. It doesn't get the. It doesn't get any of the credit it deserves, though, because seriously, people get so weird when it comes to nudity on screen.
Mariana
00:11:27.826 - 00:11:28.324
Yeah.
Marianna
00:11:28.442 - 00:11:31.168
They're just like, I don't know. This is art, I guess.
Mariana
00:11:31.264 - 00:11:39.296
I. I got to see it on 35 millimeter at the Bell Court as part of the Nicole Kidman series that they did. And that was insane.
That's the first time I'd ever seen it too.
Marianna
00:11:39.368 - 00:11:39.776
Oh, wow.
Mariana
00:11:39.808 - 00:11:43.392
It was a beautiful way to see it on film, like, actually in a theater.
Marianna
00:11:43.456 - 00:11:44.400
It's a beautiful film.
Mariana
00:11:44.440 - 00:11:45.088
It was so good.
Marianna
00:11:45.144 - 00:11:45.472
Yeah.
Seth
00:11:45.536 - 00:11:48.224
Well, I'm part of that, too, is because he passed before it was finalized.
Mariana
00:11:48.272 - 00:11:48.544
Yeah.
Seth
00:11:48.592 - 00:11:59.636
And so there was a lot of, like, question about. Is this because the. Tom Cruise had a joke on the set of Eyes Wide Shuttle.
They would ask Kubrick or what it was like working with Kubrick, and he would joke that he was still editing the Shining.
Mariana
00:11:59.668 - 00:12:00.280
Yeah.
Seth
00:12:00.620 - 00:12:05.812
Because he was. He was still editing even after it finally hit theaters. He was still making new edits of the Shining.
Mariana
00:12:05.876 - 00:12:06.164
Yeah.
Marianna
00:12:06.212 - 00:12:07.364
Yeah. He was a crazy person.
Seth
00:12:07.452 - 00:12:08.004
Yeah. Yeah.
Mariana
00:12:08.052 - 00:12:10.276
We definitely need to do an episode about Eyes Wide Shut. There's.
Seth
00:12:10.308 - 00:12:11.556
Yeah, there's.
Marianna
00:12:11.588 - 00:12:11.956
Oh, yeah.
Seth
00:12:11.988 - 00:12:12.996
There is a lot there.
Mariana
00:12:13.068 - 00:12:13.556
Yeah.
Marianna
00:12:13.668 - 00:12:14.532
Love that movie.
Seth
00:12:14.596 - 00:12:16.932
Yeah. The questions. Do you want to go on the questions?
Mariana
00:12:16.996 - 00:12:17.476
Yeah.
Seth
00:12:17.588 - 00:12:22.960
Boom. What story could they have told Jack that would have convinced him not to take the job?
Mariana
00:12:24.940 - 00:12:29.220
Probably that he would be very happy and he would love his wife.
Seth
00:12:29.560 - 00:12:30.912
You will have a great marriage.
Mariana
00:12:30.976 - 00:12:33.648
Yeah. This might fix things.
Seth
00:12:33.784 - 00:12:47.968
I mean, I tell you to come over to my house. I'm having. I'm making bagels. You guys like bagels? Yeah, I'm making bagels. We're having a bagel party. You love bagel parties. I love bagel.
Part problem, though. I had to stab 40 people to get the ingredients for these, and their body parts are under my house.
Mariana
00:12:48.024 - 00:12:48.496
Yeah.
Seth
00:12:48.608 - 00:12:50.176
Want to come over still? You still good?
Mariana
00:12:50.248 - 00:12:52.928
You Know, I don't know that that actually sounds like a decent time.
Seth
00:12:52.984 - 00:12:53.264
Yeah.
Mariana
00:12:53.312 - 00:12:53.638
Yeah.
Seth
00:12:53.704 - 00:12:54.186
I'm just.
Mariana
00:12:54.258 - 00:12:56.298
The body parts haven't started to smell yet. So.
Seth
00:12:56.354 - 00:13:08.026
Yeah, I've seen this over a hundred times, and this is the first time I thought, what story could he have told Torrance that would have maybe persuaded him not to go hacked up his daughters? I'm just like.
Mariana
00:13:08.098 - 00:13:10.122
He's just like, oh, cool. Okay.
Seth
00:13:10.186 - 00:13:11.914
Well, you'll find that I'm real.
Mariana
00:13:12.002 - 00:13:12.670
Yeah.
Seth
00:13:14.050 - 00:13:16.170
I'm a solid guy now.
Mariana
00:13:16.210 - 00:13:40.588
At the same time, I do wonder so. Because this was. This is the second time I've seen the movie.
And thinking back on it the first time I saw it, and this time, my question now is, is this a gigantic. Like a gigantic ghost story? Is this a whole situation where Jack Nicholson was always a ghost?
Or did he take the family there and then the ghost tried to get them to join them?
Seth
00:13:40.724 - 00:13:41.084
Yeah.
Mariana
00:13:41.132 - 00:13:42.108
Like this is.
Marianna
00:13:42.244 - 00:13:50.438
Or did he go back in time and he's trapped in the photograph at the end of the movie completely just as a later on?
Mariana
00:13:50.494 - 00:13:50.870
Yeah.
Marianna
00:13:50.950 - 00:14:06.374
I don't know. That's the thing. I don't know, because how would you have a wife and a child if you were a ghost? That's the part I don't understand. But that's also.
These are the things that make it, like, a great. I mean, it is a horror movie, but it's like. It's almost science fiction too.
Mariana
00:14:06.462 - 00:14:07.126
Exactly.
Marianna
00:14:07.238 - 00:14:14.982
None of the. None of the details add up. And that's, like, specifically, the part that I like the most is that it's like, is he even real?
Mariana
00:14:15.086 - 00:14:15.750
Yeah.
Seth
00:14:15.910 - 00:14:16.342
Yeah.
Marianna
00:14:16.406 - 00:14:18.646
Is the main character alive?
Mariana
00:14:18.758 - 00:14:20.886
Yeah. Is this really happening?
Marianna
00:14:20.998 - 00:14:24.338
Yeah. Or is Shelly Duvall just completely made up the whole time?
Seth
00:14:24.394 - 00:14:25.778
Yeah. Yeah.
Marianna
00:14:25.954 - 00:14:27.602
Or are they. Are they all him?
Seth
00:14:27.706 - 00:14:28.466
Yeah.
Mariana
00:14:28.658 - 00:14:31.922
Is it all in his head? He went there by himself, but he thought he had a family.
Marianna
00:14:32.026 - 00:14:41.250
Well, what if he's a split personality and then Shelley Duvall's part of him and his child's part of him, but they're not even real. And he's just talking to everybody the whole time. Because he's talking. I mean, maybe they didn't even show it.
Mariana
00:14:41.290 - 00:14:41.794
Yeah.
Seth
00:14:41.922 - 00:14:53.912
Yeah. There are a ton of interpretations in the book. It's very clear from the very beginning that it's mystical that it's ghosts, that it's.
Kubrick and Diane Johnson did. They wanted ambiguity.
Mariana
00:14:53.976 - 00:14:54.392
Okay.
Seth
00:14:54.456 - 00:15:06.300
And so up until a certain point, this movie is filmed chronologically, which is weird. I always thought that that was so rare, and I think it still is rare. But we have Covered. So many movies like Fury Road is done chronologically.
Mariana
00:15:06.800 - 00:15:42.786
Well. So here's. Here's what I have noticed. A lot of movies will tend to go location based.
So if they have a scene at the beginning, the middle and the end of the movie in one location, they will film all of those over that two, two, three weeks. Because they're in the same location, they don't have to leave and come back.
So that's a lot of times why things aren't shot chronologically is just based on where they are.
When you have a movie like Fury Road, where 90% of it takes place in the desert, and then you have a movie like the Shining where 90% of it takes place in or around this hotel, it's easier to kind of go in order because you're in the location the whole time.
Seth
00:15:42.858 - 00:15:46.082
Yeah. Drive was another one that was done chronological. It's all in la, I guess.
Mariana
00:15:46.106 - 00:15:46.854
Yeah. But.
Seth
00:15:47.002 - 00:16:05.582
But anyway, Diane Johnson and Stanley Kubrick, they wanted it to be ambiguous. Like, is this psychological? Is this cabin fever? Are these hallucinations? Or is it a ghost story?
But there is one scene that forced them to confess that, yes, there is a ghostly element. And that was the one where. Where Grady unlocks the door.
Marianna
00:16:05.646 - 00:16:06.222
Yeah.
Seth
00:16:06.366 - 00:16:18.884
Because that's the one time where there's an actual interaction. And that is something they kind of had to fess up to, is that they were. And I think they.
I still think they do a great job with the ambiguity, but that one scene does kind of force the issue.
Mariana
00:16:18.972 - 00:16:19.428
Yeah.
Seth
00:16:19.524 - 00:16:21.732
That there is a supernatural element involved.
Mariana
00:16:21.796 - 00:16:22.468
Yeah.
Seth
00:16:22.644 - 00:16:37.300
But, you know, as to whether, you know, the. I think the most common agreement. I'm not saying this is what I think or. Or anything like that, but that.
That Torrance was absorbed into the hotel and that's how they were able to put him in. In the photo. Like he was absorbed into it.
Marianna
00:16:37.340 - 00:16:37.652
Yeah.
Mariana
00:16:37.716 - 00:16:59.566
That's where my. My idea of, like, clearly this is a ghost story. And like, I wonder if Scatman Carruthers character was like, in on the whole thing.
He knows that every single caretaker has died every year and continues to join these photos. Like it almost. But then he, like, connected with the kid and that's where he was like, ah, maybe I shouldn't, like, let them just die.
Seth
00:16:59.678 - 00:17:00.158
Yeah.
Mariana
00:17:00.254 - 00:17:13.776
So I. That. That's watching it again. That's where all of those kind of came for me, where I was like, ah, I feel like this is a.
Almost like the ghosts are hunting people or like a sacrifice to the ghosts so that in the summer this place can stay Open.
Seth
00:17:13.928 - 00:17:19.328
Yeah. And. And yeah, there's definitely this idea, too, that, like. That there's possible reincarnation too.
Mariana
00:17:19.384 - 00:17:19.664
Yeah.
Seth
00:17:19.712 - 00:17:25.760
That Nicholson's a reincarnation of. Of a caretaker and that he's drawn back to the hotel to fulfill its purpose.
Mariana
00:17:25.840 - 00:17:26.384
Yeah.
Seth
00:17:26.512 - 00:17:43.282
And also you have to look at, like, another big side of this is who shines and who doesn't. Like, a lot of people don't think Torrance shines, that Jack can shine, but a lot of people think he actually does and that drinking curtails it.
And the reason the hotel wanted to get him drunk is so that he could lose his ability to shine.
Mariana
00:17:43.346 - 00:17:44.082
That makes sense.
Seth
00:17:44.146 - 00:17:50.082
Yeah. And so there's that philosophy, too, that's out there. It's interesting. Like you said, you can go down the rabbit hole.
Mariana
00:17:50.146 - 00:17:55.394
What if it's just a gigantic withdrawal story and it's basically saying, no, you should keep drinking.
Seth
00:17:55.442 - 00:17:58.114
Yeah. If you don't want to kill your family.
Mariana
00:17:58.202 - 00:17:58.562
Yeah.
Seth
00:17:58.626 - 00:18:08.812
Keep up the drinking. In the book is in the book. It's worse, man. He actually, like. Not only does he, like, break Danny's arm, but he beats the. Out of a student.
He's a professional professor.
Mariana
00:18:08.876 - 00:18:09.260
Oh.
Seth
00:18:09.340 - 00:18:26.812
And this whole thing is a getaway.
Like his friend that used to be an old drinking buddy, I guess they go through AA together and he's a stakeholder in the Overlook, and he sends him away to write a play to help him get back in the good graces of academia so he can come back and be a professor again. So it's a whole play. You know, It's a whole thing.
Mariana
00:18:26.916 - 00:18:31.532
It is interesting to me that Kubrick kind of de. Violenced this story.
Seth
00:18:31.636 - 00:18:32.012
Yeah.
Mariana
00:18:32.076 - 00:18:46.844
Because it's like, that's the one thing I keep noticing about whatever I hear about Stephen King novels for the most part. I know there's some. Some exceptions, but, like, he's always very hyper violent with the stories that he writes.
And it seems like filmmakers are constantly having to tone his shit down.
Seth
00:18:46.932 - 00:18:49.916
Yeah, it. It has so many things.
Mariana
00:18:49.988 - 00:18:50.476
Yeah.
Seth
00:18:50.588 - 00:18:59.628
In fact, I was really concerned. I don't know if you know this, but before. Who. Who directed it? I'm trying to remember the name of the director. Which one of the new. The remakes.
The it remakes.
Mariana
00:18:59.724 - 00:19:00.988
Oh, I don't remember the guy's name.
Seth
00:19:01.044 - 00:19:04.958
Well, before, you know who. The first person and he got deep into it was Cary Fukunaga.
Mariana
00:19:05.044 - 00:19:05.626
Oh, okay.
Seth
00:19:05.658 - 00:19:05.818
Yeah.
Mariana
00:19:05.834 - 00:19:06.842
That could have been really cool.
Seth
00:19:06.906 - 00:19:18.570
Yeah. Except he wanted to do everything, kid orgy and all.
And they started meeting the parents of the child actors and they Started asking questions about it. And that's when he just. They decided they weren't going to go with him.
Mariana
00:19:18.610 - 00:19:19.626
Andy Muschietti.
Seth
00:19:19.658 - 00:19:26.538
Yeah, that's right. But yeah, and it is insane. Like, it's crazy to watch that movie and think, this is a. That's a quarter.
Mariana
00:19:26.674 - 00:19:27.034
Yeah.
Seth
00:19:27.082 - 00:19:27.802
That's an eighth.
Mariana
00:19:27.866 - 00:19:28.154
Yeah.
Seth
00:19:28.202 - 00:19:50.212
There is some stuff. There is a very visual. Like, I won't get into it here, but yeah, you're right. Yeah. And. And. And not just D violence, but de cheese.
Like, you gotta get. It's like a plug in for pro tools. You gotta get the de cheesing going on. And he just. He telekinesis. Like, I'm surprised Cujo didn't have telekinesis.
It's like when he runs out of ideas, it's like, let's get tell. Let's get some telepathy.
Mariana
00:19:50.276 - 00:19:51.572
Yeah, yeah.
Marianna
00:19:51.636 - 00:19:52.740
Make somebody magic.
Seth
00:19:52.820 - 00:19:53.364
Yeah.
Mariana
00:19:53.492 - 00:20:32.722
I feel like it's easier to write cheesy sounding dialogue because when you're reading it, it doesn't register as cheesy. But then the moment you hear someone speak, it is when you're like, oh, that sounds weird.
Like, I was in a play right after college and there was one line in the whole script that I kept fighting the writer over because it read grammatically correct, but it was such a mouthful that I would jumble over it every single time. When I said it out loud, I'm like. Because no one would actually say this out loud. There's a very different way they would say it.
So, yeah, I feel like it's easier to write than things that kind of sound a little off when you speak them.
Marianna
00:20:32.906 - 00:20:48.082
That's why I'm glad there's so minimal, like, dialogue throughout the movie too. I think that adds to it.
And that's the thing I like the most about Kubrick is it's a lot about the visuals and it's just a lot about just putting you in the moment and just drawing you in. That's my favorite part about movies in general.
Mariana
00:20:48.186 - 00:20:48.642
Same.
Seth
00:20:48.746 - 00:20:50.418
All of his movies are hypnotic.
Marianna
00:20:50.514 - 00:20:51.490
Yeah, yeah. Good.
Seth
00:20:51.530 - 00:20:54.350
Good word you get. Especially 2001. I know.
Marianna
00:20:55.210 - 00:21:05.790
Well, but also he made everything go in slow motion, which is something that they ruined in the 2010 they made afterwards, where the. They made the actor walk in slow motion, which looks horrible.
Mariana
00:21:05.950 - 00:21:07.308
Wait, the 2010?
Marianna
00:21:07.495 - 00:21:11.726
2010 is the sequel to 2001. It's not made by Stanley Kubrick.
Mariana
00:21:11.758 - 00:21:12.702
Then it's not the sequel.
Marianna
00:21:12.766 - 00:21:13.502
But it was.
Mariana
00:21:13.606 - 00:21:13.918
So.
Marianna
00:21:13.974 - 00:21:17.310
But 2001 was written with Arthur C. Clarke.
Mariana
00:21:17.390 - 00:21:17.774
Okay.
Marianna
00:21:17.822 - 00:21:23.246
And then Arthur c. Clarke wrote three more books. 2010, I think 2100. I can't remember the last.
Mariana
00:21:23.318 - 00:21:23.934
Okay.
Marianna
00:21:24.062 - 00:21:44.312
And then. But the thing is, is like, they're all great books. They could have all been great movies, but it just. Man, the second director just really ruined it.
I don't remember who it was. It might not be a bad director. It could have been a production issue. I think the reason Stanley Kubrick was such a. Like a.
Such a dick on set is like, it got the movie made correctly.
Mariana
00:21:44.376 - 00:21:44.760
Yeah.
Marianna
00:21:44.840 - 00:21:52.392
And I hate that about directors. It seems like they have to be really, really like the. The opposite of a people pleaser to get anything made.
Seth
00:21:52.416 - 00:21:52.696
Right.
Mariana
00:21:52.768 - 00:22:30.918
I mean, that's kind of the thing. Like, that's.
There's a reason Marvel movies started so good and then eventually became just a very bland, kind of formulaic thing to watch is because up until the second Avengers movie, Marvel just kind of let directors do their thing. They would hire directors that had a very specific style.
Kenneth Branagh for Thor, Jon Favreau for the Iron man movies, and they would let them just do their thing. And then once things started going really well, Kevin Feige got way more involved with how the movie was supposed to look.
And all the directors were basically just there to say action. Like, they weren't there to direct the film.
Seth
00:22:30.974 - 00:22:31.494
Yeah.
Mariana
00:22:31.622 - 00:22:47.430
So, yeah, it's. Let directors do their thing. Like they have a vision on purpose. That's why they kind of got rid of Edgar Wright on Ant Man.
Like, you can see the fingerprints of Edgar Wright in that movie. But for whatever reason, they hired a very stylized director to not let him do his style.
Seth
00:22:47.510 - 00:22:47.750
Right.
Mariana
00:22:47.790 - 00:22:48.652
I think it's awful.
Seth
00:22:48.766 - 00:22:49.296
Yeah.
Marianna
00:22:49.408 - 00:22:50.592
I hate Marvel movies.
Mariana
00:22:50.656 - 00:22:50.944
Yeah.
Marianna
00:22:50.992 - 00:22:52.528
I loved Ant man, the first one.
Mariana
00:22:52.584 - 00:22:52.864
Yeah.
Marianna
00:22:52.912 - 00:22:54.432
I mean, like, that's the closest to.
Mariana
00:22:54.456 - 00:22:55.936
Edgar Wright's vision it ever got.
Marianna
00:22:56.008 - 00:23:02.320
There you go. I mean, I'm just like, you can sometimes hire some of the right people, but, man, if it's the. The directors, just like a yes man.
Mariana
00:23:02.360 - 00:23:02.768
Yeah.
Marianna
00:23:02.864 - 00:23:07.408
Or just too into production, it's just doesn't turn out good.
Seth
00:23:07.464 - 00:23:07.680
Right.
Mariana
00:23:07.720 - 00:23:08.912
Let artists. Art.
Marianna
00:23:09.016 - 00:23:12.448
Yeah. It might have mass appeal, but, you know.
Seth
00:23:12.584 - 00:23:18.160
Well, we're going to do a whole thing. Yeah. We're going to do a side pod on this. But the whole auteur. Like. Like, who are the auteurs?
Mariana
00:23:18.240 - 00:23:18.748
Yeah.
Seth
00:23:18.864 - 00:23:21.844
You know, and who those people are. It's a very interesting discussion.
Marianna
00:23:21.892 - 00:23:22.724
Yeah, definitely.
Seth
00:23:22.772 - 00:23:26.644
And whether or not you like Kubrick, I mean, he invent. I mean, he literally invented camera lenses.
Mariana
00:23:26.692 - 00:23:27.044
Yeah.
Seth
00:23:27.092 - 00:23:29.972
Like, some of the lenses that became popular, he invented for this movie.
Mariana
00:23:30.036 - 00:23:30.324
Yeah.
Marianna
00:23:30.372 - 00:23:38.052
I mean, did you see he would build train tracks like that didn't exist before him so that he could do those. You know, when he's, like, following Danny on the.
Mariana
00:23:38.156 - 00:23:39.076
Oh, the dolly tracks.
Marianna
00:23:39.108 - 00:23:42.788
Yeah, the dolly tracks. Like, that really wasn't necessarily. It might have been a thing, but.
Mariana
00:23:42.844 - 00:24:08.622
He made it like it existed in a very finite place because you would have a dolly moving just from here to here. But, no, he utilized it in such a way that no one had ever done that before. Same with using the steady cam, because I think we talked about this.
The steady cam was technically invented for Rocky for that scene of him running up the stairs. And then it just exploded in popularity once people realized what you could do a lot because of what Stanley Kubrick did with Shining.
Seth
00:24:08.686 - 00:24:09.342
Yeah, yeah.
Marianna
00:24:09.406 - 00:24:12.670
He did so much with so little, like. And then. I'm sorry, I'm jumping in again.
Seth
00:24:12.710 - 00:24:13.198
I love it.
Marianna
00:24:13.254 - 00:24:31.424
But, like, in 2001, I mean, you know, they're like. Well, we used, you know, the. The most cutting edge technology we had at the time. We used double stick tape. That was it.
They were like, we built to make. Make that pen float. They, like, built a frame, like a picture frame, and then stuck the pen to it and then went like this.
Mariana
00:24:31.512 - 00:24:31.872
Yeah.
Marianna
00:24:31.936 - 00:24:46.966
And then they, like, built all the models. And I'm like, this is why I hate when people over, like, use technology to fix things.
Because I'm like, you could just do it with the stuff and use a prop stylist that knows what they're doing, and this would look so much better.
Mariana
00:24:47.038 - 00:25:10.246
Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like that scene in Inception where they're in the hotel bar and it kind of all goes a little off kilter.
If they had just animated all the glasses moving and all the water moving. Yeah. That would have looked like shit.
But the fact that he was like, no, we're going to build this set 10ft up on a lever that's going to lean it over, and everyone's just going to act like it's normal. This is what's going to make it look good. Doing it actually in camera.
Marianna
00:25:10.358 - 00:25:17.690
Yeah, that fight scene where Joseph Gordon Levitz, like, keeps turning over and keeps turning over. I was like, they really did that? Oh, yeah.
Mariana
00:25:17.830 - 00:25:23.826
100. They went back to that whole Danny K scene of him dancing on the walls in this. Or I guess Fred Astaire. That's.
Marianna
00:25:23.858 - 00:25:24.306
Yeah.
Mariana
00:25:24.418 - 00:25:28.338
Dancing on the walls and ceiling. They went back to that technology to make that work.
Marianna
00:25:28.474 - 00:25:29.426
And it works great.
Mariana
00:25:29.498 - 00:25:29.794
Yeah.
Seth
00:25:29.842 - 00:25:30.066
Yeah.
Marianna
00:25:30.098 - 00:25:35.762
I love how he's like, let's just flip the 18 wheeler and then. That's better. Yeah. Than, like, making it in a computer.
Seth
00:25:35.906 - 00:25:40.098
You know what they say. You know that what they say you always regret not working out, but you never regret working out.
Mariana
00:25:40.154 - 00:25:40.434
Yeah.
Seth
00:25:40.482 - 00:26:03.808
That's how. That's how I feel about cgi, because that.
That anytime you use whatever was the most, like, pertinent, like, innovative visual technology at the time effect, cgi, you like, even Terminator, which. I worship that film. But every time it gets to the claymation, I'm like. It's just. You know. But so. But when you go practical and do it like that, that.
If you do it well.
Mariana
00:26:03.864 - 00:26:04.240
Yeah.
Seth
00:26:04.320 - 00:26:04.992
It's timeless.
Mariana
00:26:05.056 - 00:26:05.504
Exactly.
Seth
00:26:05.552 - 00:26:06.464
The elevator scene.
Mariana
00:26:06.512 - 00:26:06.928
Yeah.
Seth
00:26:07.024 - 00:26:10.112
That's 3,500 gallons of what was called Kensington Gore.
Mariana
00:26:10.176 - 00:26:10.662
Yeah.
Seth
00:26:10.776 - 00:26:12.154
And that's the good stuff.
Mariana
00:26:12.202 - 00:26:13.738
Yeah, that's. It was so good.
Seth
00:26:13.794 - 00:26:33.322
It wasn't water. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't dye. It wasn't water. And they literally pumped it out. And that was the only scene in the movie that took two takes.
They got that in two tastes. They couldn't get Dick Halloran talking to a boy over ice cream in less than 100 takes. But we're gonna do 3, 500 gallons of Kensington Gore.
It's like, just give us two of that one.
Mariana
00:26:33.346 - 00:26:33.642
Yeah.
Seth
00:26:33.706 - 00:26:34.186
Yeah.
Mariana
00:26:34.298 - 00:26:35.210
Probably all they had.
Seth
00:26:35.250 - 00:26:37.402
Yeah. They could afford because that stuff's expensive.
Mariana
00:26:37.466 - 00:26:49.404
Oh, yeah. I mean, there's so many times I've seen directors be like, we had to get that in one take. Not. Not that we wanted to. We knew we had to.
Like, when in Inception, when the building explodes, they literally set up 20 cameras.
Seth
00:26:49.452 - 00:26:49.724
Yeah.
Mariana
00:26:49.772 - 00:26:54.892
Because they were like, we got one chance of this. We've got to take everything. And they did it practically, and it looked amazing.
Seth
00:26:54.956 - 00:26:58.492
And Nolan does not like multicam now, and so for him to do that is wild.
Mariana
00:26:58.556 - 00:26:59.200
Yeah.
Seth
00:27:00.340 - 00:27:04.240
Is it just me, or does Jack Torrance not lift a finger to help clean this bitch?
Marianna
00:27:05.300 - 00:27:18.598
From your mouth to God's ears. Seriously, as a wife, I felt so much for Shelley Duvall because that is a big hotel.
Honestly, I would have just stayed in the Colorado Room the whole time, though.
Mariana
00:27:18.654 - 00:27:18.934
Yes.
Marianna
00:27:18.982 - 00:27:20.422
I would have just, like, slept on.
Seth
00:27:20.446 - 00:27:22.134
The ground and smoked cigars in there.
Marianna
00:27:22.222 - 00:27:32.810
Yeah. Oh, I would have ruined that place. It would have smelled like weed. I would have just been doing mushrooms with my kid.
It's a good thing I'm not a parent.
Seth
00:27:33.630 - 00:27:35.334
Empty Dorito bags everywhere.
Mariana
00:27:35.382 - 00:27:35.702
Yeah.
Seth
00:27:35.766 - 00:27:36.780
It's like, wow.
Mariana
00:27:36.910 - 00:27:37.360
All the.
Marianna
00:27:37.400 - 00:27:39.632
All the calumet baking powders just, like.
Seth
00:27:39.656 - 00:27:40.832
All over the ground.
Marianna
00:27:41.016 - 00:27:43.140
Just baking in the kitchen.
Seth
00:27:44.200 - 00:28:25.166
Yeah. He ain't Doing shit. And it really, it's really interesting because there's kind of an argument over what.
What Shelley Duvall, what Wendy represents as a. As a feminine force in this. Because in the book, Wendy's a very strong character. And also he does a lot like. He, you know, it's. It's. Spoiler alert.
There's this boiler in the book, and that's how the whole book ends, is the boiler explodes and Halloran actually saves them in the book. Totally different. But. Sorry. If you were gonna read it, it came out in 1977. If you weren't gonna read it by now, don't let me.
Don't blame me for spoiling it. But it's the. But he did it. He. He had to empty the boiler four times a day like Torrance. And he had to like clean wasp nests off the roof.
Like there's. He's working non stop in the book.
Mariana
00:28:25.238 - 00:28:25.854
Huh.
Seth
00:28:25.982 - 00:28:51.364
But in this and, and a lot of it is reflected. And some people think, and this has been written that Wendy's the most misogynistic female character ever written. And. And some.
I've heard people comment. I listened to some other podcasts and read some material people. Well, this was the 70s wife is like. Well, that wasn't really the 70s wife.
This kind of. More the 40s, 40s, 50s, 50s wife. I think in the 70s, this is where this was. People were rejecting this kind of female character.
Mariana
00:28:51.412 - 00:28:54.900
I mean, it's definitely the beginning of that, but it was still a pretty common trope.
Seth
00:28:54.980 - 00:29:33.114
Yeah. And you know, Kubrick. So there's a short story I didn't get to tell from the whole King arc.
But, you know, Kubrick was mad Barry Lyndon because he wanted to make Napoleon with Jack Nicholson. That was going to be his big thing. But they even built the sets. They got two years in and then they lost money and couldn't make it.
But that was his thing he wanted to do is interesting. And Jack Nicholson was going to play Napoleon, but. And he was angry. And so he was like a. He basically, for a couple years after was domesticated.
He was like doing house chores and. And he was very angry about how he couldn't do Napoleon. Then Barry Lyndon failed, which was his. His timepiece.
Mariana
00:29:33.162 - 00:29:33.386
Yeah.
Seth
00:29:33.418 - 00:29:57.982
Which I like Barry Lyndon, but it did not do well. It made no money. And so he was angry and he was like doing chores. And some people think.
And again, you have to like, this is just casting dispersions. But he cast Shelley Duvall because he wanted to hire somebody that he could abuse and so that's the whole. And so. But, man, more so than in the book.
She plays into that, like, abused housewife. It's sad.
Mariana
00:29:58.046 - 00:30:00.334
Yeah. I mean. Yeah, it was sad to watch.
Marianna
00:30:00.502 - 00:30:06.958
She is the perfect choice, too. This is another thing where I'm like, stanley Cooper's a genius. He's also really abusive.
Seth
00:30:07.054 - 00:30:07.662
Yeah.
Mariana
00:30:07.806 - 00:30:08.302
Yeah.
Marianna
00:30:08.366 - 00:30:18.046
As a lot of great artists have been over time. And, I mean, man, we just didn't have TV and movies and the way we do now back in the day.
Mariana
00:30:18.118 - 00:30:18.414
Yeah.
Marianna
00:30:18.462 - 00:30:21.838
But I would. One, I would love to hear how Hitchcock was, you know.
Seth
00:30:21.894 - 00:30:22.222
Yeah.
Mariana
00:30:22.286 - 00:30:23.262
A little bit horrific.
Marianna
00:30:23.326 - 00:30:23.710
Yeah.
Mariana
00:30:23.790 - 00:30:24.350
Oh, yeah.
Marianna
00:30:24.430 - 00:30:27.440
But again, I'll watch all of his movies again.
Seth
00:30:27.560 - 00:30:28.000
Yeah.
Marianna
00:30:28.080 - 00:30:29.376
And I won't do that with a lot.
Mariana
00:30:29.448 - 00:30:33.424
Did you watch the. The Hitchcock movie with Anthony Hopkins as him?
Marianna
00:30:33.512 - 00:30:34.496
I don't think I did.
Mariana
00:30:34.568 - 00:30:36.112
It's really. It's definitely worth.
Seth
00:30:36.176 - 00:30:37.024
Hopkins would be awesome.
Marianna
00:30:37.072 - 00:30:37.696
Yeah, he's awesome.
Mariana
00:30:37.728 - 00:30:38.704
It was fantastic.
Seth
00:30:38.832 - 00:30:39.328
Wow.
Mariana
00:30:39.424 - 00:30:39.648
Yeah.
Seth
00:30:39.664 - 00:30:40.560
I'm gonna add that to my list.
Mariana
00:30:40.600 - 00:30:42.960
I think it was him. And Helen Mirren played his wife.
Marianna
00:30:43.040 - 00:30:44.368
I love Helen Mirin.
Mariana
00:30:44.464 - 00:30:46.224
Stand by. Keep talking. I'll figure it out.
Seth
00:30:46.312 - 00:31:04.142
Yeah, you. The only thing I take offense to that is, is that people act like Shelley Duvall had no agency. In a lot of interviews, she. She speaks.
She does say that it was hard and that he was very hard on her and the set and people that were there. But she also says that she had never grown so much as an actress.
Mariana
00:31:04.206 - 00:31:04.542
Yeah.
Seth
00:31:04.606 - 00:31:13.502
And she said that Kubrick was doing it to get the best take. And the thing is, is that so many of the takes that he uses are those 150th takes.
Mariana
00:31:13.566 - 00:31:14.110
Oh, yeah.
Seth
00:31:14.190 - 00:31:30.234
So he wanted to get them to the point of exhaustion and loopiness. And what Jack Dickelson says is, like, I. I was doing things that I would never do as an actor because he was like, I. I was doing stupid things.
It was like I didn't know what he wanted, so I was just goofing around. I was just doing Making Stupid Faces.
Mariana
00:31:30.282 - 00:31:30.586
Yeah.
Seth
00:31:30.618 - 00:31:33.082
And those were the ones that Kubrick used in the movie.
Mariana
00:31:33.146 - 00:31:33.946
Yeah. Yeah.
Marianna
00:31:34.058 - 00:31:41.306
Well, this is like something in Stand Up. Like, I would love to do 150 takes of a set in stand up because the 150th one's gonna be the best one.
Seth
00:31:41.378 - 00:31:42.538
Yes, absolutely.
Marianna
00:31:42.634 - 00:31:48.154
And I feel that happened in the movie, and I love that he took the 150th take, honestly, because, you know, they were doing all film.
Mariana
00:31:48.242 - 00:31:48.834
Oh, yeah.
Marianna
00:31:48.922 - 00:31:50.626
Like, what happened to the rest of the film?
Mariana
00:31:50.698 - 00:31:51.042
Yeah.
Marianna
00:31:51.106 - 00:31:52.002
I'd love to see all the other.
Mariana
00:31:52.026 - 00:31:53.618
Tapes, unfortunately, usually they burn that.
Marianna
00:31:53.674 - 00:31:55.170
I was about to say they probably burned it.
Mariana
00:31:55.210 - 00:31:55.830
Yeah.
Marianna
00:31:56.170 - 00:31:57.362
Wow, that'd be pretty.
Mariana
00:31:57.426 - 00:31:58.070
Yeah.
Seth
00:31:58.490 - 00:31:59.426
Rando.
Mariana
00:31:59.538 - 00:32:00.290
Rando.
Seth
00:32:00.370 - 00:32:23.046
Rando. Rums. Oh, gosh. I'm getting cheesy on my own podcast. I'm Stephen King, ladies and gentlemen, Randall Ram. All right. This is my favorite rando.
I'm gonna kick it right off. Danny Lloyd. All right. We talk a lot about how we're seeing some of the best kid acting we've ever seen today with stranger Things.
Like, these kids are just talented. He was picked amongst 1000 children that auditioned.
Mariana
00:32:23.078 - 00:32:23.414
Okay.
Seth
00:32:23.462 - 00:32:31.450
His parents are, like, coal miner or the railroad workers. And the way he astonished them was the whole finger thing with Tony. That was his idea.
Mariana
00:32:32.110 - 00:32:33.798
Just the finger thing or Tony in general?
Seth
00:32:33.854 - 00:32:35.174
The voice? No, no, Tony.
Mariana
00:32:35.222 - 00:32:35.574
Okay.
Seth
00:32:35.622 - 00:32:40.022
Tony in the book is a whole character. You actually see Tony in the book. He's very cheesy.
Marianna
00:32:40.086 - 00:32:40.406
Okay.
Seth
00:32:40.438 - 00:32:49.352
Tony is this whole thing. Although you do question Tony's motives more in the book because it's a little ambiguous. It's actually kind of interesting.
But his idea to talk with Tony's voice using his finger.
Mariana
00:32:49.416 - 00:32:49.656
Yeah.
Seth
00:32:49.688 - 00:32:57.768
Was his idea. And he did it in his audition. And they said one that that blew them away.
But also that he apparently just held his own with Kubrick and Nicholson in the room.
Mariana
00:32:57.824 - 00:32:58.152
Nice.
Seth
00:32:58.216 - 00:33:02.200
Like, he just was, like, confident and, like, just blew it away. And, like.
Mariana
00:33:02.240 - 00:33:02.648
Yeah.
Seth
00:33:02.744 - 00:33:13.832
So that's how he got it. And what's crazy is he. He did one more. I think he did a show in the 80s and he never acted again.
Like, in 1982, he did a show and he just lives happily and obscure. He's a professor at a college.
Mariana
00:33:13.896 - 00:33:14.472
Nice.
Seth
00:33:14.616 - 00:33:16.108
Four kids like me.
Mariana
00:33:16.164 - 00:33:22.748
I mean, it's kind of the same as Charlie Bucket from Willy Wonka the Chocolate Factory. I think that was the only role he did.
Marianna
00:33:22.804 - 00:33:24.060
A lot of actors.
Mariana
00:33:24.140 - 00:33:24.492
Yeah.
Marianna
00:33:24.556 - 00:33:29.900
Yeah. What's it. The girl from Growing Pains, Danica Bent. Patrick.
Mariana
00:33:30.060 - 00:33:33.100
Oh, I thought she did other stuff.
Marianna
00:33:33.180 - 00:33:38.156
She is starting to now. She's been a math teacher for most of her adult life.
Mariana
00:33:38.228 - 00:33:38.828
Good for her.
Marianna
00:33:38.884 - 00:33:40.400
I know she lives in Franklin.
Mariana
00:33:40.930 - 00:33:41.562
Who knew?
Marianna
00:33:41.626 - 00:33:42.826
I didn't mean to interrupt you.
Seth
00:33:42.898 - 00:33:53.066
No, you're a guest on the show. You're supposed to talk. I hope you're talking. May I talk now? I was like, shut up. This is my show. Go to hell. Go back to doing stand up.
Marianna
00:33:53.138 - 00:33:57.550
Sometimes I just get. So this is why I can only do standups, because then I'm not talking over anybody.
Seth
00:33:58.770 - 00:34:01.514
No, I'm glad you're here. Talking of it. That would Suck if you showed up.
Marianna
00:34:01.522 - 00:34:04.458
And you're just like, danny.
Seth
00:34:04.554 - 00:34:05.230
Yeah.
Mariana
00:34:05.650 - 00:34:09.230
Right. Can I speak now, Mrs. Torrance?
Marianna
00:34:09.860 - 00:34:10.780
Just like, over here.
Seth
00:34:10.820 - 00:34:18.620
Just. That's amazing. The whole rest of this podcast, just. Just scratching it.
Mariana
00:34:18.660 - 00:34:19.280
Yeah.
Seth
00:34:20.500 - 00:34:40.689
And to finish that out. So we'll get more to. About Garrett Brown, the guy that invented the steady cam, who filmed this. But he. He talks about in the.
The commentary, he's the one that tells the story about how they got Danny. But he also said how sad he is that he never got to see him grow up as an actor because he was like.
He just felt like he had so much gifted, like, natural ability.
Mariana
00:34:40.769 - 00:34:41.121
Yeah.
Seth
00:34:41.185 - 00:34:43.793
That he thought he would. Could have been great. One of the great ones.
Marianna
00:34:43.841 - 00:34:51.121
Yeah. I think it was, like, perfect that this was basically his only movie, because he was absolutely the perfect choice for it.
And I love that he doesn't exist out of this movie.
Mariana
00:34:51.185 - 00:34:51.617
Yeah.
Marianna
00:34:51.713 - 00:34:59.857
Like, I think that's kind of amazing. And it sort of adds to the ethereal, whimsical sort of aspect of the Shining. It's like, wow, it just exists.
Mariana
00:35:00.033 - 00:35:16.246
Yeah. That is.
That is kind of one of my big issues with Jack Nicholson actually, is he's so good in this movie that when they cast him as the Joker, I think they were expecting that Jack Nicholson. And fat Jack Nicholson showed up and. Because I hate his performance as Joker.
Seth
00:35:16.278 - 00:35:16.726
Oh, really?
Mariana
00:35:16.798 - 00:35:19.030
I think he is absolutely one of the worst jokers that's ever.
Seth
00:35:19.070 - 00:35:19.650
Really.
Mariana
00:35:20.110 - 00:35:49.762
This is coming from a man who has a joker card with. With Caesar Romero's face tattooed on his arm. Okay. Like, I. I hated his interpretation of the Joker, and. And I don't know if that was Tim Burton.
I don't know if it was him. I don't know if it was the vibe of the movie. Like, there's a lot of things that could have gone into why I don't like that performance.
But I can see if. If Shining Jack Nicholson had showed up as the Joker, that's probably what Tim Burton was hoping for.
And then just this fat fuck came up and I'm going to be a gangster. Just, I hated it.
Seth
00:35:49.786 - 00:35:52.418
He definitely had a lot more energy when he did peyote every day.
Mariana
00:35:52.474 - 00:35:54.370
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Seth
00:35:54.530 - 00:35:58.258
This was definitely the psychedelic, energetic Jack Nicholson period.
Marianna
00:35:58.394 - 00:36:01.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You had to catch him at the. The right time. Pokemon.
Mariana
00:36:01.840 - 00:36:02.784
Yeah, yeah.
Seth
00:36:02.832 - 00:36:05.696
It's like, oh, there it is. Push the button. I don't. I've never played Pokemon.
Marianna
00:36:05.728 - 00:36:07.168
I know, me neither. But you catch them.
Seth
00:36:07.224 - 00:36:07.808
What? She said.
Mariana
00:36:07.864 - 00:36:09.696
Yeah, gotta catch them all.
Marianna
00:36:09.768 - 00:36:12.560
I don't play Pokemon, I swear.
Seth
00:36:12.640 - 00:36:27.900
I mean, it it's all right. You're married. You're not trying to, like, impress. You're not trying to land anybody new who would be turned off by.
Anyways, like, going out with her. She plays Pokemon and she's married. And she talks like this.
Mariana
00:36:29.960 - 00:36:32.780
She carries a microphone around. She do that.
Seth
00:36:33.960 - 00:36:35.424
You gotta add this to your routine.
Marianna
00:36:35.472 - 00:36:37.140
I know this one talks.
Seth
00:36:38.120 - 00:36:41.168
Talking women. I hate talking women. Give me Shelly Duvall.
Marianna
00:36:41.264 - 00:36:42.380
She can read.
Seth
00:36:43.320 - 00:36:44.860
She's the problem with the system.
Mariana
00:36:46.680 - 00:36:47.620
Chuck.
Seth
00:36:48.600 - 00:37:01.052
And it's funny. This is the rando that goes on forever. Just. I forgot to add this part.
So because filming was supposed to take place over 100 days, it ended up getting to almost 400 days. Danny gets noticeably older in the movie.
Mariana
00:37:01.116 - 00:37:01.548
Yeah.
Marianna
00:37:01.644 - 00:37:03.932
I did notice he gets taller, which is cool.
Seth
00:37:03.996 - 00:37:05.004
Yeah, it is cool.
Marianna
00:37:05.132 - 00:37:05.724
Yeah.
Seth
00:37:05.852 - 00:37:06.348
Yeah.
Mariana
00:37:06.444 - 00:37:08.604
That is one hell of a shooting schedule.
Seth
00:37:08.652 - 00:37:10.252
Yeah, That's Kubrick.
Marianna
00:37:10.316 - 00:37:10.556
Yeah.
Seth
00:37:10.588 - 00:37:20.412
And it's because of how he films. He test everything. So, like, lighting and. And here's another thing about. Some people read into him as this abusive, authoritarian guy.
But there is this other side of him. He asks everybody.
Mariana
00:37:20.476 - 00:37:20.860
Yeah.
Seth
00:37:20.940 - 00:37:32.574
For their opinion. Like, he would ask Jack Nicholson his opinion on the lighting, and then they would. What they do. They would film. And these are part of the takes, too.
Sometimes when you read about 148 takes, the first 50 could be him checking lighting.
Mariana
00:37:32.622 - 00:37:32.894
Yeah.
Seth
00:37:32.942 - 00:37:38.094
He literally. He wants them to work it out, but he also is, like. He wants to actually test it. So he tested everything.
Mariana
00:37:38.182 - 00:37:38.446
Yeah.
Marianna
00:37:38.478 - 00:37:38.686
Yeah.
Seth
00:37:38.718 - 00:37:44.478
And so that's. You know. And so sometimes a scene that was scheduled to take two days would take two months.
Mariana
00:37:44.534 - 00:37:45.134
Yeah.
Seth
00:37:45.262 - 00:37:47.150
And it's just. And he had no control.
Mariana
00:37:47.270 - 00:37:55.130
I can't imagine doing that with film. Like, Jesus Christ. Having that finite, limited amount of film trying to do all that. That just.
Marianna
00:37:55.430 - 00:38:08.174
Did you hear about how he filmed the beginning scenes of 2001 A Space Odyssey? Okay. So they're all filmed in Africa, the beginning shots. I mean, you've seen parts of 2001, just monkeys in, like, a rectangle.
Mariana
00:38:08.222 - 00:38:09.534
I've seen the intro scene. Yeah.
Marianna
00:38:09.582 - 00:38:45.216
Yeah. And so the thing is, is he didn't like leaving England. He didn't like leaving his house.
And at this time, there's no, you know, WI fi or computers or anything like that. So they would take a picture and they would mail it to him. And then he would be, like, 2 degrees to the left.
And then they would film some more and send it to him and in the mail, and he'd send it back. So it'd be, like, a month. And so he would just be playing chess in the park during all this.
So that's another thing about his production schedules that I think made it so long. But he was also, like, not necessarily working the whole time, which I think could have added a lot to it.
Seth
00:38:45.278 - 00:38:46.364
Yeah, yeah.
Marianna
00:38:46.412 - 00:38:47.484
A lot of dimension.
Seth
00:38:47.612 - 00:38:51.964
Yeah. And I think he did work the whole time on the Shiny, but that's because he had been trapped in.
Marianna
00:38:52.052 - 00:38:55.852
He was in. Yeah. He was like, I want to go back to London as soon as possible.
Seth
00:38:55.956 - 00:38:56.412
Yeah.
Marianna
00:38:56.476 - 00:38:57.164
Or not London.
Seth
00:38:57.212 - 00:38:58.444
He also didn't fly.
Marianna
00:38:58.572 - 00:38:58.924
Yeah.
Seth
00:38:58.972 - 00:39:01.212
He was afraid of flying the last 30 years of his life.
Marianna
00:39:01.316 - 00:39:04.508
I get that. In the 70s and 80s.
Seth
00:39:04.684 - 00:39:05.132
Yeah.
Mariana
00:39:05.196 - 00:39:05.564
Yeah.
Seth
00:39:05.612 - 00:39:06.924
But you could smoke then on a plane.
Mariana
00:39:06.972 - 00:39:07.740
It's true.
Seth
00:39:07.900 - 00:39:13.868
And punch people, not get filmed. That's all I want. I want to be able to punch people and not be put on Twitter.
Mariana
00:39:13.964 - 00:39:15.878
Yeah. You TikTok.
Seth
00:39:16.054 - 00:39:32.006
We already talked about this, but Nicholson got scat McCarthers on, but it was a horrible experience for him. In fact, he would weep on set during things, and he would be like. And he would walk up and say, I don't know what he wants anymore. And he would just.
And that's. And. But apparently that's what would eventually get Kubrick to stop.
Mariana
00:39:32.078 - 00:39:32.422
Yeah.
Seth
00:39:32.486 - 00:39:40.774
Was when Scatman would cry, you know, and so in some ways, I think he knew that would get Kubrick to stop. But I think also that's kind of what Kubrick wanted.
Mariana
00:39:40.822 - 00:39:41.046
Yeah.
Seth
00:39:41.078 - 00:39:41.494
He wanted.
Marianna
00:39:41.542 - 00:39:52.632
I mean, honestly, that's how I get my husband to stop sometimes. Like, you know, like, you get to that point where you're just like, I. That's the. It's the. That's the ace.
Mariana
00:39:52.696 - 00:40:02.520
I think he just wanted the. The having just cried undertone to Scatman's voice for the whole thing, because it kind of sounds like it.
You can kind of tell he's been crying recently.
Seth
00:40:02.640 - 00:40:02.936
Yeah.
Mariana
00:40:02.968 - 00:40:04.200
Like, when you hear him talk.
Seth
00:40:04.320 - 00:40:05.944
Yeah. And he's. He's good.
Marianna
00:40:06.032 - 00:40:10.440
Oh, it adds a lot of emotional layers to the characters, too. That's why they're all seem so real.
Mariana
00:40:10.560 - 00:40:14.588
Yeah. Now, here's my question, though. How much of this movie was 80 yard?
Seth
00:40:14.764 - 00:40:17.148
Oh, I don't know. Maybe they don't talk about it.
Mariana
00:40:17.204 - 00:40:32.092
Can you imagine doing 150 takes on set just to go back in later and rerecord the dialogue? Just to go back into the studio and him be like, all right, we're going to. You remember that thing that we finally got on set?
Well, now you're going to have to try to do it again in here.
Seth
00:40:32.196 - 00:40:46.888
Nicholson's mic'd up for a lot of it. Like, there's actually footage of him taking, like, in his gene. Like, back in the day, they would have, like, a recording device.
And he actually had it next to his fly. You think he's doing something really perverse, but he's actually. Actually.
He's, like, acting all provocative, but then he takes his microphone out and hands it to the.
Mariana
00:40:47.024 - 00:40:47.480
That's fun.
Seth
00:40:47.520 - 00:40:49.160
And it's. Yeah, it's hooked up to his shirt.
Mariana
00:40:49.240 - 00:40:54.952
Interesting, because that would have been pretty new technology then, to be able to have a portable mic for someone.
Marianna
00:40:55.056 - 00:40:55.480
Yeah.
Mariana
00:40:55.560 - 00:40:56.216
Damn. Okay.
Seth
00:40:56.248 - 00:40:59.272
Yeah, it's wild. I don't know how they. Maybe they sunk it up in post.
Mariana
00:40:59.376 - 00:40:59.848
Yeah.
Seth
00:40:59.944 - 00:41:06.136
But, yeah, anyway. And again, like I said earlier, the ice cream scene between Halloran and Danny's 148 takes, which is the record man. Yeah.
Mariana
00:41:06.168 - 00:41:07.032
It's nuts.
Seth
00:41:07.176 - 00:41:14.990
That's a lot of ice cream. I mean, so there's a lot of different filming textures in this. So the Stanley Hotel is what? That's in Colorado, right?
Marianna
00:41:15.030 - 00:41:16.158
Yeah, that's the Nestus part.
Seth
00:41:16.214 - 00:41:16.542
Yeah.
Marianna
00:41:16.606 - 00:41:17.422
I've been there twice.
Seth
00:41:17.486 - 00:41:19.102
Yeah. What was it like?
Marianna
00:41:19.286 - 00:41:20.158
Cold.
Mariana
00:41:20.334 - 00:41:21.054
Cold.
Marianna
00:41:21.182 - 00:41:28.174
Cold in that. It's very haunted. It's a really beautiful place. However, it only occurred to me this morning that it's called the Stanley.
Mariana
00:41:28.302 - 00:41:28.702
Yeah.
Marianna
00:41:28.766 - 00:41:29.822
Like Stanley Kubrick.
Mariana
00:41:29.886 - 00:41:30.510
That's funny.
Marianna
00:41:30.590 - 00:41:34.490
Even though I'm sure that Stephen King is very upset about.
Mariana
00:41:35.350 - 00:41:36.798
It should be called the King.
Marianna
00:41:36.894 - 00:41:48.250
Yeah. But it is very haunted place. I didn't sleep very much there.
And you can go into the room where he wrote the Shining because it's the most haunted room. And that ghost will actually put your clothes away in the drawers.
Mariana
00:41:48.330 - 00:41:49.530
So interesting.
Marianna
00:41:49.610 - 00:41:52.570
And they're growing a maze. They're growing their own maze.
Mariana
00:41:52.650 - 00:41:53.194
Oh, wow.
Marianna
00:41:53.242 - 00:42:04.026
So when I went, like, seven years ago, it was teeny tiny, and they just planted it. And now it's, like, as big as I am. It's not very big. And you can get out of it pretty easily. I mean, I did. It's not a big place.
Mariana
00:42:04.098 - 00:42:04.394
Yeah.
Marianna
00:42:04.442 - 00:42:08.222
They couldn't have filmed it there. I know. They went there for three months and tried to, like.
Seth
00:42:08.306 - 00:42:08.662
Yeah.
Marianna
00:42:08.726 - 00:42:14.998
Film it. And then they were doing all the research, and it just didn't line up with what Stanley wanted to do. But, yeah.
Mariana
00:42:15.094 - 00:42:15.702
Interesting.
Seth
00:42:15.766 - 00:42:16.774
What if I get a water?
Marianna
00:42:16.862 - 00:42:20.998
I was about to say, are you dying? This is something I do.
Seth
00:42:21.134 - 00:42:38.962
But like, I was talking about earlier, before I had a coughing fit. I'm like Mariana over here, choking on air. But the. So in the book, the room is 217. And they filmed it at the Timberline Lodge.
So the Stanley is the one that in. Inspired it when Stephen King stayed there. He did actually film his 1997 one there.
Marianna
00:42:39.066 - 00:42:39.586
Yeah.
Seth
00:42:39.698 - 00:42:40.402
Which is crazy.
Mariana
00:42:40.466 - 00:42:42.994
I remember hearing about that. I still don't really want to watch it.
Seth
00:42:43.162 - 00:42:47.202
Oh, it's funny. Yeah. They cast the guy from Wings.
Marianna
00:42:47.266 - 00:42:49.362
I know, I know.
Seth
00:42:49.546 - 00:42:50.402
Stephen Weber.
Marianna
00:42:50.466 - 00:42:51.510
I love Wings.
Mariana
00:42:51.850 - 00:42:53.570
But they taste very good.
Seth
00:42:53.690 - 00:42:54.130
Yeah.
Mariana
00:42:54.210 - 00:42:54.514
Yeah.
Seth
00:42:54.562 - 00:42:55.362
Nice and spicy.
Mariana
00:42:55.426 - 00:42:55.858
Yeah.
Seth
00:42:55.954 - 00:43:02.658
But so anyway, the Timberline Lodge, because they actually have a room 217. They asked Kubrick to change it because they didn't want people freaking out when they actually stayed there.
Mariana
00:43:02.714 - 00:43:03.090
Yeah.
Marianna
00:43:03.170 - 00:43:08.938
Oh, I would have wanted to see. Stay there. Like. Like I'm. I'm dragging my husband to this place. We're gonna go this next year.
Mariana
00:43:08.994 - 00:43:09.434
Hell, yeah.
Marianna
00:43:09.482 - 00:43:16.698
Because we were doing this and I was like, you can actually stay there. I've been to the Stanley twice. I'm going to the Timberland now. But I want to be in room 237.
Mariana
00:43:16.754 - 00:43:17.466
Hell yeah.
Seth
00:43:17.578 - 00:43:25.002
So, but another interesting fact about this. So I was talking earlier about the textures. So he actually. The rooms were sets at L Street in London.
Marianna
00:43:25.066 - 00:43:25.738
Yeah.
Seth
00:43:25.914 - 00:43:33.476
And so they actually copied rooms from the Timberline. But the number 237 is also the B52 atomic hole. Holocaust code.
Marianna
00:43:33.538 - 00:43:33.776
Yeah.
Seth
00:43:33.808 - 00:43:36.288
And Dr. Strange Love. Yeah. So that's why he actually.
Marianna
00:43:36.424 - 00:43:38.672
Dr. Strange Love. That's my dad's favorite movie.
Seth
00:43:38.736 - 00:43:39.120
I love it.
Mariana
00:43:39.160 - 00:43:40.192
I need to see that one too.
Seth
00:43:40.216 - 00:43:41.648
I think it's my favorite Kubrick film.
Marianna
00:43:41.704 - 00:43:44.080
It's great. Full Metal Jacket too.
Mariana
00:43:44.120 - 00:43:45.920
Oh, too many Kiss.
Seth
00:43:46.080 - 00:43:46.656
Yeah.
Mariana
00:43:46.768 - 00:43:48.096
Did you not know that he did Spartacus?
Seth
00:43:48.128 - 00:43:48.512
I did not.
Mariana
00:43:48.536 - 00:43:49.680
Yeah, he did Spartacus.
Seth
00:43:49.760 - 00:43:50.880
I don't know how I didn't know that.
Mariana
00:43:50.920 - 00:43:54.368
Yeah, he did. He did a bunch of studio movies before they finally let him do his own.
Seth
00:43:54.424 - 00:43:54.704
Yeah.
Mariana
00:43:54.752 - 00:44:01.362
Yeah. I feel like. I feel like Spartacus to him is like Insomnia to Christopher Nolan or Batman Begins to Chris.
Seth
00:44:01.426 - 00:44:02.034
That's crazy.
Mariana
00:44:02.082 - 00:44:02.594
Yeah.
Seth
00:44:02.722 - 00:44:03.522
Spartacus.
Mariana
00:44:03.586 - 00:44:04.242
Yeah.
Seth
00:44:04.386 - 00:44:07.522
And everything he does is based on a book or pre written.
Mariana
00:44:07.586 - 00:44:08.162
Yeah.
Seth
00:44:08.306 - 00:44:14.786
Garrett Brown, the inventor of the Steady Cam, he did. You said this earlier. He chased Rocky up the steps, but that was the first thing they ever did with the Steadicam.
Mariana
00:44:14.818 - 00:44:15.430
Yep.
Seth
00:44:15.850 - 00:44:20.690
Kubrick took a chance and wanted him to do this. And that's how they got all these amazing. They call it locam.
Mariana
00:44:20.770 - 00:44:21.122
Yeah.
Seth
00:44:21.186 - 00:44:23.618
Because they wanted, like the shots of Danny to be low to the ground.
Mariana
00:44:23.674 - 00:44:24.178
Yep.
Seth
00:44:24.274 - 00:44:25.506
So it worked out great.
Mariana
00:44:25.578 - 00:44:25.916
Yeah.
Seth
00:44:25.978 - 00:44:34.792
Crazy. And Garrett is interesting. Like, he's not just an amazing cameraman, like, listening to him Talk about film in general. He's a very knowledgeable guy.
And he said Kubrick basically taught him everything he knows.
Mariana
00:44:34.856 - 00:44:35.240
Nice.
Seth
00:44:35.320 - 00:44:36.216
About camera work.
Mariana
00:44:36.288 - 00:44:37.128
That's really cool.
Seth
00:44:37.224 - 00:44:42.280
Yeah. And this la. I mean, I cut this last right now. I Talked about the 1500 gallons of Kensington Gore.
Mariana
00:44:42.360 - 00:44:42.712
Yeah.
Seth
00:44:42.776 - 00:44:45.848
That they use. So they went for the good stuff with the Elevator Man.
Marianna
00:44:45.904 - 00:44:47.016
I love that. Strange.
Mariana
00:44:47.128 - 00:44:47.896
Kensington.
Seth
00:44:48.008 - 00:44:51.526
Kensington. Shall we Shine?
Mariana
00:44:51.648 - 00:44:52.346
Let's do it.
Seth
00:44:52.418 - 00:44:55.450
Shine, shall we? Shall we? Axe.
Mariana
00:44:55.530 - 00:44:56.170
Yes.
Seth
00:44:56.330 - 00:44:57.786
Top bill cast.
Mariana
00:44:57.978 - 00:45:00.026
Is that the. Yes and no. Shine and Axe.
Seth
00:45:00.058 - 00:45:03.690
Yeah. Oh, no, no. All work. All work is positive.
Mariana
00:45:03.770 - 00:45:04.394
Okay.
Seth
00:45:04.522 - 00:45:05.882
No play is negative.
Mariana
00:45:05.946 - 00:45:06.970
I like it. I like it.
Seth
00:45:07.010 - 00:45:14.570
You're going to like the ones I got for Sometimes I Think About Dying. Yeah, I got the good ones for that one. Yeah. All work is Affirmative. Good.
Mariana
00:45:14.610 - 00:45:14.874
Yeah.
Seth
00:45:14.922 - 00:45:16.490
Love it. And no play is. I hate it.
Mariana
00:45:16.530 - 00:45:16.874
Okay.
Seth
00:45:16.922 - 00:45:19.194
I can't wait to hear you on this. Sounds like you got some opinions.
Mariana
00:45:19.242 - 00:45:20.330
I got a couple of opinions.
Seth
00:45:20.410 - 00:45:21.422
Brought your opinions.
Mariana
00:45:21.546 - 00:45:24.838
They're nowhere near as strong as my Star wars opinions, but they're there.
Seth
00:45:24.974 - 00:45:27.462
Hey, well, you have your opinions. I got my ass glass.
Mariana
00:45:27.526 - 00:45:28.450
There we go.
Seth
00:45:29.150 - 00:45:31.930
All right. Jack Nicholson and Shelley Duvall.
Mariana
00:45:32.750 - 00:45:33.750
You go first.
Marianna
00:45:33.870 - 00:45:47.330
Incredible. I. I love Jack Nicholson. This is my favorite movie he's in that he's ever been in, Honestly, other than the Departed.
I just think he adds so much to it. I believe that he's there. I believe he's still stuck in the hotel.
Mariana
00:45:47.430 - 00:45:47.850
Yeah.
Marianna
00:45:47.930 - 00:45:56.746
Like, this is one of those where he transcends who he is. It's amazing that he's already a famous actor at this point. And it's also funny that. How old is he in this movie?
Mariana
00:45:56.778 - 00:45:59.482
Like, 40s, 50s, definitely early 40s.
Marianna
00:45:59.546 - 00:45:59.786
Yeah.
Mariana
00:45:59.818 - 00:45:59.962
Like.
Seth
00:45:59.986 - 00:46:00.266
Yeah.
Marianna
00:46:00.298 - 00:46:00.890
And this is still.
Seth
00:46:00.930 - 00:46:02.906
Like, he had a lot of movies before this one.
Marianna
00:46:02.978 - 00:46:28.132
Yeah. So I just think it's one of. It's. He's always going to be one of my favorite actors, but because of this movie specifically.
And then Shelley Duvall, I just. I love her expressive face and, like, especially the. The moments at the end of the movie when she's just, like, running around with the knife.
Just, like, kind of useless as a person. Like, she is like olive oil. She's almost like olive oil in the movie. In the Shining.
Seth
00:46:28.196 - 00:46:28.628
Yeah.
Marianna
00:46:28.724 - 00:46:31.684
But, yeah, all. All work.
Seth
00:46:31.852 - 00:46:33.360
All work. I love it.
Mariana
00:46:34.220 - 00:46:35.156
Here's the thing.
Seth
00:46:35.228 - 00:46:35.880
Oh.
Mariana
00:46:36.220 - 00:47:06.068
I think Jack Nicholson did such an incredible job in this movie. I think he was the perfect casting. I think he. He played. Starting from the beginning.
You could tell there was something a little off, but he was still a pretty normal guy. And then as the movie went on, not only do you start to see his true nature, but then you start to see him actually go insane.
And I think that evolution was fantastic. I think Shelley Duvall was fucking terrible. Like, so bad that they almost cancel each other out for me.
Seth
00:47:06.124 - 00:47:06.436
Really?
Mariana
00:47:06.508 - 00:47:12.240
Yes. What you're saying about her running around with the knife. I could not stop laughing with her just being.
Marianna
00:47:12.940 - 00:47:16.468
Jack, Go, Jack.
Mariana
00:47:16.564 - 00:47:26.180
It just. I just. I couldn't. I couldn't do it. It just. I'm sorry. So I'm actually as great as I think Jack Nicholson was. I have to go. No, play.
Marianna
00:47:26.300 - 00:47:29.040
Oh, I completely knew you were going to say that.
Mariana
00:47:31.340 - 00:47:36.250
She just. I just. It. It hurt to watch that. It hurt to watch that for me.
Seth
00:47:36.550 - 00:47:39.566
Yeah. And that's not an uncommon opinion. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marianna
00:47:39.598 - 00:47:40.430
Most people hated her.
Seth
00:47:40.470 - 00:47:43.370
Yeah. And I think Kubric hated her.
Marianna
00:47:43.670 - 00:47:49.614
Oh, yeah. No, I understand. I'm in the minority here, but I do think that it was just a perfect movie for me.
Seth
00:47:49.702 - 00:48:25.504
No, I. And I see where you're coming from. It's a. It's a common opinion, so it's not. It's not necessarily a hot take. Yeah. I think it works. Personally for me.
I never. It's weird. I had loved it always just loved what I saw.
And then I eventually found out later that people hated Shelley Duvall so much, I was like, oh, that's weird. I never really thought about it. I always. I always thought it played into the movie really well. I hate what she was. She was subjected to, but I.
I think. Yeah, I don't know. I just think it works.
I mean, like I said, it does suck when you find out later not only what she went through, but he wanted somebody that he could abuse. He wanted somebody that was degenerative in terms of the female, like, progressive arc.
Mariana
00:48:25.552 - 00:48:25.904
Yeah.
Seth
00:48:25.952 - 00:48:34.072
You know, and all that stuff. But I think. I mean, it plays in. I mean, I can't imagine her. I mean, what would it have been like if she was a strong.
Marianna
00:48:34.256 - 00:48:37.060
Well, that's my thing, is, who would you have wanted to play her?
Mariana
00:48:37.360 - 00:48:41.448
See, I don't know. I'm not familiar enough with the other actresses at that time.
Marianna
00:48:41.584 - 00:48:44.888
Celine Dion, like a random choice.
Mariana
00:48:44.984 - 00:48:58.456
I couldn't tell you how to replace her. All I know is I. There's. There's 70s acting, there's 70s overacting, and then there's Shelley Duvall in the Shining. Like, it was.
It was horrible for me.
Seth
00:48:58.528 - 00:49:00.248
Yeah. Hey, I get it.
Marianna
00:49:00.304 - 00:49:01.656
That first scene where she's, like, holding.
Mariana
00:49:01.688 - 00:49:04.616
The cigarette, though, that was the best acting. She did for the whole movie.
Marianna
00:49:04.648 - 00:49:10.312
That's my favorite scene that she does, and I just. I don't know how old. She holds the space really well for.
Mariana
00:49:10.336 - 00:49:11.400
Me in that moment.
Seth
00:49:11.480 - 00:49:11.960
If.
Mariana
00:49:12.080 - 00:49:27.500
If she was that in touch with.
With the emotions that she was trying to portray for the rest of the movie, if she was that in touch as she was in that first scene, I think she could have done a great job. But the fact that that's the only redeeming quality for me, it just.
Seth
00:49:27.540 - 00:49:32.348
It hurts when she's kind of like, just slowly flubbing over the abuse to the. To the doctor.
Mariana
00:49:32.444 - 00:49:53.146
I mean, it. Yeah. Eventually didn't even get like. Yeah, there was. That. That was so powerful.
And then you just watch the rest of it where I feel like she's not even trying anymore sometimes, which is sad. Cause I know. I know she was probably doing everything she could to give Kubrick what he wanted by then, but I just. I don't think it worked for me.
Seth
00:49:53.298 - 00:50:10.922
Yeah, I dig. I get it, man. I get it. All right. One to zero so far. It's all work. All work. All right, supporting cast, and I'll name a few of them.
Danny Lloyd as Danny Scatman. Carruthers as Halloran. Barry Nelson is Ullman. Philip Stone is Grady, who is awesome.
Mariana
00:50:10.986 - 00:50:11.322
Yeah.
Seth
00:50:11.386 - 00:50:16.572
Joe Turkel is Lloyd. And then Ann Jackson as the doctor who's just pretending like abuse didn't happen.
Mariana
00:50:16.666 - 00:50:17.420
Yeah.
Marianna
00:50:18.320 - 00:50:19.016
Yeah.
Seth
00:50:19.128 - 00:50:20.120
That's so 70s.
Mariana
00:50:20.200 - 00:50:22.104
Isn't she the mom and freaks and geeks?
Seth
00:50:22.152 - 00:50:22.728
I think so.
Mariana
00:50:22.784 - 00:50:23.208
Yeah.
Seth
00:50:23.304 - 00:50:23.980
Yeah.
Mariana
00:50:24.560 - 00:50:25.736
You go first. Yeah.
Marianna
00:50:25.848 - 00:50:26.840
I like the cast.
Mariana
00:50:26.920 - 00:50:27.176
Yeah.
Marianna
00:50:27.208 - 00:50:31.416
I don't have a whole lot to say about most of them. Except for Danny. I think he's great.
Mariana
00:50:31.488 - 00:50:32.008
Yeah.
Marianna
00:50:32.104 - 00:50:36.776
I mean, again, I like that he just kind of exists in this movie as a child forever.
Seth
00:50:36.888 - 00:50:37.224
Yeah.
Marianna
00:50:37.272 - 00:50:40.840
He's just like a little ghost kid that exists only in this movie.
Mariana
00:50:40.920 - 00:50:42.686
His facial expressions are my favorite. Favorite.
Marianna
00:50:42.718 - 00:50:42.974
Yeah.
Seth
00:50:43.022 - 00:50:44.990
He was absorbed into the hotel in real life.
Marianna
00:50:45.030 - 00:50:57.470
Yeah. That's what it feels like, honestly. But I just feel like I. I like the fact that it just kind of feels like you were actually at a hotel.
Like, nobody ever really. Nobody actually stood out. You know how, like, all actors today are gorgeous?
Mariana
00:50:57.550 - 00:50:58.702
Yeah, I like that.
Marianna
00:50:58.726 - 00:51:01.406
They all look regular. Yeah, it's not that.
Mariana
00:51:01.478 - 00:51:01.806
Something.
Marianna
00:51:01.878 - 00:51:12.890
I mean, like, Jack Nicholson is. Obviously, if you saw him in person, you'd be like, wow, that's Jack Nicholson. Okay, he's hot. But, like.
But, you know, in the movie, you're just like, oh, he looks. You know, he's the right character for this.
Mariana
00:51:12.930 - 00:51:13.290
Yeah.
Marianna
00:51:13.370 - 00:51:21.066
But, like, everybody Else, I'm just kind of like, they. It's not even that they're not terribly good looking. It's just that they're not so good looking. They take you out of, like, what you're doing.
Mariana
00:51:21.138 - 00:51:21.386
Yeah.
Marianna
00:51:21.418 - 00:51:22.522
You're like watching a movie.
Mariana
00:51:22.586 - 00:51:24.746
They don't stand out for those pretty reasons.
Marianna
00:51:24.778 - 00:51:25.130
Yeah.
Mariana
00:51:25.210 - 00:51:27.194
They look like actual real people.
Marianna
00:51:27.282 - 00:51:35.964
That's why I like the way that Stanley Kubrick casts things, because I feel like he doesn't let, like, the looks of the actors get in the way of the story.
Mariana
00:51:36.052 - 00:51:45.388
I mean, even with Eyes Wide Shut, as gorgeous as Nicole Kidman is and was, especially at the time, same with Tom Cruise, he somehow still made them look like normal people.
Seth
00:51:45.444 - 00:51:46.140
Yeah, like.
Mariana
00:51:46.180 - 00:51:53.564
Like, they. They actually looked in. In terms of the class. Classism that was going on in that movie. They looked beneath everybody else.
Marianna
00:51:53.612 - 00:51:53.980
Yeah.
Mariana
00:51:54.060 - 00:52:14.658
So, like, no, he. He does an incredible job. I'm assuming you're going. You're going all work. Yeah, I'm going all work on this one as well. Like. Yeah, I think.
I think all of the supporting cast, he did a great job. I do think as Danny got older, closer to the end of the movie, not as great, but not enough that it would make me hate it or hate his performance.
Seth
00:52:14.794 - 00:52:15.202
Yeah.
Mariana
00:52:15.266 - 00:52:28.886
Yeah. I think I especially love Grady. Like, yeah, he just. He's so weird and ethereal, but still, like, you're saying, very grounded in that.
He still feels like a real guy, but almost like a dream of a real guy.
Seth
00:52:28.998 - 00:52:29.382
Yeah.
Marianna
00:52:29.446 - 00:52:37.670
Like, they actually cast a ghost. Yeah, Literally, they were just interviewing ghosts. They're like, I got one. One of you got a lot. We got a job for one of you.
Seth
00:52:37.710 - 00:53:00.446
Yeah, yeah. Philip Stone, who plays Grady, is like my American Psycho guy. You know how, like, they're always like, is that Ivanka Trump? Yeah, for a while.
And actually one time I was where I was like, that is Philip Stone. But most of the time I was like, oh, that's not Phillips. But basically they were bald and white. I was like, that's Phillip Stone. But I love Danny.
I think until we get to this new era of child acting, I think it's one of the best child on screen portrayals ever.
Mariana
00:53:00.518 - 00:53:01.166
Agreed.
Seth
00:53:01.278 - 00:53:09.678
Scott McCreuthers is fantastic. I love Barry Nelson as Olman. You know, you got to be the guy to sell the job where the murders happen in a hotel. And he did a pretty good job.
Mariana
00:53:09.734 - 00:53:10.446
Yeah, I agree.
Marianna
00:53:10.518 - 00:53:11.294
I believed him.
Seth
00:53:11.382 - 00:53:21.294
And in the book, he is a major character in the book. He eats up a lot of the pages and everyone hates him. He's A hard ass. And everyone hates working for him. And this. He's just kind of a normal dude.
Mariana
00:53:21.342 - 00:53:21.566
Yeah.
Seth
00:53:21.598 - 00:53:28.462
And I. I think he does. He's kind of a talk show host, honestly. Philip Stone is Grady, which he's been in everything I've ever watched, apparently.
If you're bald.
Mariana
00:53:28.526 - 00:53:28.910
Nice.
Seth
00:53:28.990 - 00:53:36.526
Joe Turkel. And I like Joe Turkel's Lloyd. First of all, I just love this. Those are my favorite scenes in the movie of the scenes with Lloyd. White man's burden.
Marianna
00:53:36.558 - 00:53:37.198
I just.
Seth
00:53:37.334 - 00:53:47.672
I just love those scenes. And the reason that he loves. So you know how Scorsese has his, like, batch of mob guys he always worked with?
Well, Kubrick had his batch of, like, illustrious British guys.
Mariana
00:53:47.736 - 00:53:48.024
Yeah.
Seth
00:53:48.072 - 00:54:05.512
And Turkel was one of them because he says, he compares him to how from 2001, he's. Yeah, he's almost comes off as this very dependable, friendly, like, you know, consistency.
But, like, on the back end of it is this, you know, like, he's inviting. Like, he's. Can be the face of the pain that's going to come later.
Marianna
00:54:05.616 - 00:54:05.944
Yeah.
Seth
00:54:05.992 - 00:54:15.592
And so I love that because I totally saw that because I watched it this time with that lens. I was like, man, he's devious. This. He's so friendly and kind of like, yeah, like, you know, what does he say?
Mariana
00:54:15.616 - 00:54:15.800
Your.
Seth
00:54:15.840 - 00:54:17.000
Your money's no good here.
Mariana
00:54:17.040 - 00:54:17.944
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marianna
00:54:17.992 - 00:54:19.032
He's a perfect ghost.
Mariana
00:54:19.096 - 00:54:19.288
Yeah.
Seth
00:54:19.304 - 00:54:26.648
Yeah. He's such a good bag. How good are these bad ghosts, huh? But, yeah, anyway. Yeah, all work here.
Mariana
00:54:26.784 - 00:54:27.288
Hell yeah.
Seth
00:54:27.304 - 00:54:43.710
All right. Two to zero. All work writing. So we got Stephen King with the novel, but then Stanley Kubrick and the true American author, Diane Johnson, who.
Who Stanley Kubrick used to slap Stephen King in the face with in an interview. What do you all think of the writing?
Mariana
00:54:43.790 - 00:55:16.154
I definitely don't think it's his best, but it's not bad. But it. As far as the few, now, again, this. I've only seen a couple of Kubrick movies, but from what I have seen, this felt the most stale.
And I wonder if that has to do with the source material. Like, I know they changed a lot, but I'm sure they kept the spirit of the dialog from the book. And I just feel like it.
It just wasn't up to snuff for what I would expect from a Kubrick movie. But I am still going all. All work. I think it was good, just not his best.
Seth
00:55:16.242 - 00:55:17.658
Yeah, we think.
Marianna
00:55:17.794 - 00:55:28.554
I actually don't even feel like with the dialogue. I don't. You could mute the movie for me and Just play the music. And I think I know what was going on in every one of his movies.
Mariana
00:55:28.602 - 00:55:28.922
Yeah.
Marianna
00:55:28.986 - 00:55:43.608
I feel like the dialogue is very unimportant and I love that there's so sparse throughout. But you're right.
I mean, they, they almost sound like, not cartoons, especially Shelley Duvall, but like, it's just kind of unrealistic as why they're talking at all.
Mariana
00:55:43.664 - 00:55:43.944
Yeah.
Marianna
00:55:43.992 - 00:55:46.824
Sometimes you're just like, are you talking to yourself or.
Mariana
00:55:46.912 - 00:55:50.168
Well, like that whole first scene where Jack is screaming at her.
Marianna
00:55:50.224 - 00:55:50.552
Yeah.
Mariana
00:55:50.616 - 00:56:09.276
It's like you went from 0 to 100 so fast for no reason. Yeah, there wasn't really any, especially with the dialogue specifically. There was no real evolution into, Into. Oh, now he's crazy.
It was just like, what, what happened here? Why are we suddenly batshit and cra. Insane, like.
Seth
00:56:09.348 - 00:56:09.964
Yeah.
Mariana
00:56:10.092 - 00:56:12.028
But again, not bad enough that I would hate it.
Marianna
00:56:12.084 - 00:56:16.348
Yeah, yeah, agreed. I'm just kind of like, it just wasn't an aspect for me.
Mariana
00:56:16.404 - 00:56:16.684
Yeah.
Marianna
00:56:16.732 - 00:56:27.472
I feel like Kubrick didn't care that much about the script, to be totally honest, Ever. Yeah, I feel like he is so much more about the visual and the storyline, which oddly doesn't need words to carry it.
Mariana
00:56:27.556 - 00:56:27.864
Yeah.
Seth
00:56:27.912 - 00:56:28.184
Yeah.
Mariana
00:56:28.232 - 00:56:33.544
See, I think Eyes Wide Shut is probably the one where he gave the most shits about the words that were said.
Marianna
00:56:33.632 - 00:56:33.896
Yeah.
Mariana
00:56:33.928 - 00:56:49.544
That's the only one you can tell. That's the only one planned out as far as, like every single possible word.
Like, there is a decent amount of dialogue in that movie, but it, it's, everything is still very purposeful. This, the dialogue kind of was just a mechanism to get to the next scene.
Seth
00:56:49.672 - 00:57:10.842
Yeah, yeah.
I, I, I think what's interesting is they, they did run into the problem of they were like, there's, if you watch some, if you go out on YouTube, there's some special features of actually Stanley Kubrick's mother is on, was on set and she was talking to Jack Nicholson at Kubrick and he was talking about like, I don't even read scripts at night anymore because by the time I get in the next day, I don't have the newest script.
Mariana
00:57:10.906 - 00:57:11.482
Yeah.
Seth
00:57:11.626 - 00:57:30.382
And so they were, they were changing scripts every day.
And that's one of the reasons he filmed it chronologically is because he wanted to be able to make changes when he wanted to, which was apparently all the time. Yeah. And so at. Sometimes actors weren't even getting the most up to date scripts when they were filming.
But I think there's a lot of memorable lines here, like the whole Wendy with the bat scene.
Mariana
00:57:30.446 - 00:57:31.054
Yeah.
Seth
00:57:31.182 - 00:57:36.046
And, you know, I always look at it from the perspective as an adaptation. Did you read the book ever?
Marianna
00:57:36.118 - 00:57:36.782
No, I didn't.
Seth
00:57:36.846 - 00:57:37.166
Okay.
Marianna
00:57:37.198 - 00:57:37.886
I don't want to.
Seth
00:57:37.958 - 00:57:59.602
Yeah, when you read the book, they did. They did a favor to the world by getting rid of some of that cheesy dialogue. Especially Dick Halloran, who's written so cheesy.
Like, there's just a lot of cheese. Danny's horribly written. They did the world a favor by. By watering some of that stuff down. And so I think as an adaptation, it works.
And like you said, the visuals scream so loudly that, like, you know, and. And the.
Mariana
00:57:59.706 - 00:58:00.162
The.
Seth
00:58:00.266 - 00:58:01.890
The hotel is a character.
Mariana
00:58:01.970 - 00:58:02.402
Yeah.
Seth
00:58:02.466 - 00:58:05.362
So in a way, the hotel is speaking.
Mariana
00:58:05.426 - 00:58:05.762
Yeah.
Seth
00:58:05.826 - 00:58:15.858
I'm like, Like. And I love how the sound of the Shining is, like, when that shriek. You hear that shriek. Like. Like, whoa. That's.
It's almost like the hotel is speaking. Or that's the sound of shining is what that is.
Mariana
00:58:15.914 - 00:58:16.146
Yeah.
Seth
00:58:16.178 - 00:58:37.040
It's like, whoa. You know, And I. I don't know. Like, I. I just. I personally. Again, same with my perspective on Shelley Duvall. I just never really thought about it.
I just always thought it worked. I'm a little biased. All work. We're working here. Yeah, working. Working. Directing. Stanley Kubrick.
Mariana
00:58:37.540 - 00:58:43.052
I mean, is there anything to say? Yes, he did. He got the movie he wanted to make. It looks incredible.
Seth
00:58:43.116 - 00:58:43.452
Yeah.
Mariana
00:58:43.516 - 00:58:48.054
It's a classic for a reason. It's iconic for a reason, obviously. All work.
Marianna
00:58:48.222 - 00:59:18.928
Yeah, all work. He's the best. I. I don't know if I would have wanted to be on set or work with him because I used to do, like, set styling and production styling.
So, like, I can't even imagine what he was like when you're styling those calumet baking powder things. I think he would be very taxing to work with. I think everyone on the set was taxed, not just Shelley Duvall and actors.
Oh, yeah, they were taxed the most. But definitely all work. I just. Everything Stanley Kubrick created is just. It's really perfect.
Mariana
00:59:19.024 - 00:59:21.440
Yeah. The attention to detail is unprecedented.
Marianna
00:59:21.520 - 00:59:26.048
It really is. And I just. I love the fact that you can always tell he made it.
Mariana
00:59:26.104 - 00:59:26.528
Yeah.
Marianna
00:59:26.624 - 00:59:34.800
That's something about his films that I just. It's weird because it's so subtle and he's using things anybody could use, and it's the way he uses them.
Mariana
00:59:34.840 - 00:59:35.136
Yeah.
Marianna
00:59:35.168 - 00:59:46.218
He's basically a painter with sets. I. I don't even know how. I don't think I could, like, get this many people on board with an idea for this long.
Mariana
00:59:46.274 - 00:59:46.842
Yeah.
Marianna
00:59:46.986 - 00:59:51.818
Like, I'm just like, how did he get everybody to come show up to work for 400 days?
Mariana
00:59:51.874 - 00:59:52.154
Yeah.
Seth
00:59:52.202 - 00:59:52.922
Yeah. That's what.
Marianna
00:59:52.946 - 00:59:53.786
I really am amazed.
Seth
00:59:53.818 - 00:59:59.530
And when I found out that the ballroom was a set, I know that I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's beautiful.
Mariana
00:59:59.610 - 01:00:00.010
Yeah.
Marianna
01:00:00.090 - 01:00:01.642
All of it is a set. It's gorgeous.
Seth
01:00:01.706 - 01:00:02.042
Yeah.
Marianna
01:00:02.106 - 01:00:03.830
I wish that was a set you could visit.
Seth
01:00:04.370 - 01:00:17.114
Yeah. There is a new thing in la, I think. I don't know if they're still doing, but they did a Kubrick kind of, like, historic thing.
And, like, when you walk in, you hear the sound of the Shining. Like the very first song that plays. And they have the costumes from the twins.
Marianna
01:00:17.242 - 01:00:17.546
Yeah.
Seth
01:00:17.578 - 01:00:20.826
And they have. They have, like, the stick from space. Odd. Like, they have everything.
Marianna
01:00:20.898 - 01:00:21.146
Yeah.
Mariana
01:00:21.178 - 01:00:22.778
Was that at the Academy museum or was.
Seth
01:00:22.834 - 01:00:23.338
I think so.
Mariana
01:00:23.394 - 01:00:23.674
Okay.
Seth
01:00:23.722 - 01:00:24.218
I think so.
Mariana
01:00:24.274 - 01:00:25.002
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Marianna
01:00:25.066 - 01:00:25.786
Not a stick.
Mariana
01:00:25.898 - 01:00:28.070
The Academy museum is incredible, by the way.
Seth
01:00:29.010 - 01:00:32.330
It's been a long time. I haven't watched it in a while. Sorry. A bone.
Marianna
01:00:32.410 - 01:00:33.070
Sorry.
Seth
01:00:33.630 - 01:00:36.246
I'm glad you corrected me, though. I'm a idiot.
Mariana
01:00:36.278 - 01:00:37.050
I quit.
Seth
01:00:37.470 - 01:00:40.262
This is your show now. Enjoy. You did this to yourself.
Mariana
01:00:40.326 - 01:00:41.078
There we go.
Seth
01:00:41.214 - 01:00:43.610
You don't want the burden of making these spreadsheets.
Marianna
01:00:44.270 - 01:00:45.610
You're right, I don't.
Seth
01:00:46.510 - 01:00:49.878
I'm such a nerd with my production sheets. I'm like, you guys want to see it? You're like, sure.
Mariana
01:00:49.934 - 01:00:50.310
Not really.
Marianna
01:00:50.350 - 01:00:52.454
You didn't even send me the spreadsheet this time.
Seth
01:00:52.542 - 01:01:12.672
But, yeah, I go all work as well. I'm mesmerized by most of his films, but this one specifically, the framing with the rooms, the red bathroom, the carpet, it's just all.
It's just so visually stimulating. And, like, the. The choice, for example, to hear Danny's Wheels on the ground, that was a choice they made, like.
Mariana
01:01:12.696 - 01:01:13.984
Oh, yeah, because that was Foley.
Seth
01:01:14.112 - 01:01:14.464
Yeah.
Mariana
01:01:14.512 - 01:01:14.864
Yeah.
Seth
01:01:14.912 - 01:01:20.912
And they didn't know. Like, they didn't think about that when they were filming because they knew they wanted it low to the ground.
But then they're hearing the sound, like, wow, that's haunting.
Mariana
01:01:20.976 - 01:01:21.408
Yeah.
Seth
01:01:21.504 - 01:01:34.818
And there's just so many choices made.
And I love this idea of even though it sounds exhausting and it sounds like it ruins some people's lives, but the fact that he was pushing people to the limits and using those later takes is wild to me.
Mariana
01:01:34.874 - 01:01:35.106
Yeah.
Seth
01:01:35.138 - 01:01:45.682
You know, and a lot of people. And it's funny that King is mad.
Was so mad that Jack Nicholson get cast, because if you watch a lot of the takes he did not every take was 1,000% madman.
Mariana
01:01:45.746 - 01:01:46.082
Yeah.
Seth
01:01:46.146 - 01:01:47.810
Like, he was doing a wide range.
Mariana
01:01:47.890 - 01:01:48.146
Yeah.
Seth
01:01:48.178 - 01:01:49.650
Because he is a very ranged actor.
Mariana
01:01:49.730 - 01:01:50.306
100%.
Marianna
01:01:50.378 - 01:01:50.850
He's great.
Seth
01:01:50.890 - 01:02:00.028
But those were the ones Kubrick took. And so, like, there were. There were takes of Nicholson doing more calm, more chill, more relatable. Yeah, But Kubrick didn't want those.
Mariana
01:02:00.084 - 01:02:00.588
Yeah.
Seth
01:02:00.684 - 01:02:08.764
So he was pushing people to the limit to get what he wanted. And he did the same with the lighting. He did the same. And the. I guess. I guess perfection has a cost.
Mariana
01:02:08.852 - 01:02:09.916
Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
Marianna
01:02:09.948 - 01:02:10.972
It does.
Seth
01:02:11.156 - 01:02:13.020
I'll watch this movie any day of the week.
Mariana
01:02:13.060 - 01:02:13.420
Yeah.
Seth
01:02:13.500 - 01:02:17.360
So hail Kubrick. It was a bone.
Marianna
01:02:18.180 - 01:02:19.372
It was a bone.
Seth
01:02:19.436 - 01:02:26.040
It was a bone. Dammit. Now she's got a bone to pick with me. She's going to break my bones over the bone comment.
Mariana
01:02:26.480 - 01:02:27.224
Boner.
Seth
01:02:27.352 - 01:02:53.768
Bone dry. Bone dry. All right, it's getting all worked up on here. Work, work, work. What's in front of us? Cinematography, production design, sound, costumes.
The score was done by Wendy Carlos, which is a great little Excerpt on the 4K. I recommend of her. She shows a bunch of outtakes of music that didn't make it.
Oh, she actually sent music to Kubrick from reading the book because that was. They asked her to gauge the music by reading the book.
Mariana
01:02:53.824 - 01:02:54.272
Yeah.
Seth
01:02:54.376 - 01:03:03.488
It sounds so cheesy and horrible. She read the book and made the cheesiest sounding score ever. It's like Stephen King can't. He permeates the cheese.
Mariana
01:03:03.584 - 01:03:13.024
What if that's the reason why Kubrick ended up picking her was because he's like, you perfectly represented this shitty book through cheesy music. I think you'll be able to do it correctly for my version.
Seth
01:03:13.072 - 01:03:14.784
Yeah. And then I'm gonna destroy your soul.
Mariana
01:03:14.832 - 01:03:15.460
Yeah.
Seth
01:03:16.520 - 01:03:20.596
Yeah. She's one person that did not get ruined. She was like, I loved working with Stanley Kubrick.
Mariana
01:03:20.628 - 01:03:21.240
Yeah.
Seth
01:03:22.460 - 01:03:31.828
Cinematography. John Alcott, who is no longer with us. But RIP rip. Amazing. Garrett Brown, inventor of the Steadicam. So there's just notables here.
Mariana
01:03:31.964 - 01:04:13.808
So my only complaint with the cinematography, and we've discussed this, I'm pretty sure everyone, even Kubrick, probably agrees with me. Those helicopter shots sucked. Yeah, they were. So it's.
It's like, I get what you were trying to do, but how in the hell were you not able to stabilize these cameras? Because I've seen helicopter shots from that time period, and they're amazing.
And Lord of the Rings, I think, kind of like perfected the helicopter shot. Those sweeping shots. These were so bad.
That intro sequence was almost impossible for me to watch because it was just nothing but shaking around outside of that flawless. Great. All work 100%. Except for that. So 98%.
Seth
01:04:13.914 - 01:04:19.680
I mean, first blood two years later, the first Rambo movie would have great helicopter shots. I mean, just.
Mariana
01:04:20.220 - 01:04:26.708
It sucks. It's the one part, it's the biggest blemish on this film that those shots just didn't look the way the rest of it did.
Seth
01:04:26.764 - 01:04:30.036
And it's not. It's not enough to be canceled out by the Steadicam work you think it was.
Mariana
01:04:30.108 - 01:04:37.268
Oh, the Steadicam work completely made up for it. Again, it's 2% of the shots in the movie that just look like shit. That's not gonna make the rest of the movie look bad.
Seth
01:04:37.404 - 01:04:38.660
Zoe, working or playing here?
Mariana
01:04:38.700 - 01:04:41.360
Oh, we're working. No, I said I'll work.
Seth
01:04:41.740 - 01:04:52.650
I'm sorry. I must have missed it because I was looking up the. Dave, First Blood came out as a comparison helicopters. I. I got the laptop over here. No, Cool. You.
What do you think?
Mariana
01:04:53.270 - 01:04:53.870
You.
Marianna
01:04:53.990 - 01:04:59.070
I know. That is so aggressive. I'm so sorry I'm abused you.
Seth
01:04:59.190 - 01:05:01.550
This is our 150 take of this.
Marianna
01:05:01.670 - 01:05:28.732
You know what's funny? I didn't actually see a difference in that first shot. I kind of like how it was shot because.
So if you, if you've ever gone to Estes park, the, the road going to Estes park is also very windy in the same exact manner. But it's definitely not a sprawling like in Oregon, which I think is the beginning shots.
But I like the fact that he, like, turns the camera so that the, the road is like. I, I don't know how to explain it.
Mariana
01:05:28.756 - 01:05:32.588
But see, again, I agree with you. That's where I'm like, the concept was there.
Marianna
01:05:32.644 - 01:05:32.956
Yeah.
Mariana
01:05:32.988 - 01:05:39.272
But the camera wasn't stabilized, so it was just bouncing while it was doing stuff. So that's, that's me. Me. That's all me.
Marianna
01:05:39.376 - 01:05:46.820
I guess it just didn't bother me at all. Fair. I, I, I was having this fight with my husband earlier today.
Seth
01:05:47.360 - 01:05:47.880
Yes.
Marianna
01:05:47.960 - 01:06:25.960
When we were. When I was trying to watch that horrible documentary about the Shining.
And, you know, I get the fact that, like, some of this stuff is, like, stupid, that people make up, that they see things in the movie that might not be there.
But I also feel like Kubrick is so intentional about everything else that I would be very hard pressed to believe that he wasn't completely okay with the opening shots, because he was. He was so okay with waiting three months to get the right thing. So now I'm kind of wondering why he would want it to be not as stable as possible.
Or if it maybe physically wasn't impossible. My thing is, is then why didn't he build a tiny set and just like.
Mariana
01:06:26.000 - 01:06:26.344
Yeah.
Marianna
01:06:26.392 - 01:06:53.106
Move the camera around or do it some other way. So I'd love to read more about, like, what he was doing. I have a whole book on how he made 2001. One Odyssey. So I just. I don't know if I.
It didn't take me out of it. And I kind of love that sweeping beginning shot just because I love windy roads going to the mountains.
And, like, even though I know everybody dies at the end, like, it looks like a nice vacation or like an introvert.
Mariana
01:06:53.298 - 01:06:57.154
Well, I feel like you were telling me something about those helicopter shots.
Seth
01:06:57.202 - 01:07:34.082
Yeah, well, first of all, was that book called It's a Bone. It was a phone. That's the name of this. The Making of a Space Odyssey. It's a boat. But, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So they created. So for the.
They created a rig. So. And actually, Kubrick invented it because before he made movies, he was a photographer. That was his thing.
And he created a wheelchair so he could sit on the back of the camera. So of the Steadicam. So as they're, like, moving the Steadicam around, he's riding. So he's always over the back of the cameraman. Yeah, the whole time.
But he also doesn't fly. So the only shot he wasn't sitting in for and wasn't, like, on the back of the camera for was the helicopter shot. Because he doesn't fly.
Marianna
01:07:34.146 - 01:07:36.338
Yeah. But I would assume that he would watch it.
Seth
01:07:36.394 - 01:07:36.834
Oh, yeah.
Marianna
01:07:36.882 - 01:07:37.474
Over again.
Seth
01:07:37.562 - 01:07:38.178
Oh, yeah.
Marianna
01:07:38.274 - 01:07:44.910
So I don't know. I mean, again, he's one of those people where I'm just like. I just feel like he had creative control over everything.
Mariana
01:07:45.450 - 01:07:56.498
But, see, there's. There's shots later in the movie with the same sweeping thing that are more stabilized than those. So I don't know.
For part of me feels like it was one of those where he's like, it does what I want it to do.
Seth
01:07:56.554 - 01:07:57.090
I can't.
Mariana
01:07:57.170 - 01:08:12.930
I can't stabilize it. So it is what it is. And then later it's like, okay, we got a good one, so I'll keep that one in. But I don't know. I've. I've been.
I've been on enough sets and seen enough anal directors. Just randomly pick the moment where you're like, this should be better. And they're like, ah, it's good enough.
Marianna
01:08:13.050 - 01:08:15.346
Yeah, same, same. Been on a lot of sets.
Mariana
01:08:15.378 - 01:08:15.730
Yeah.
Marianna
01:08:15.810 - 01:08:29.875
Seen a lot of directors and. But my thing Is about. It is.
I, I think he does these little detail things, like when he takes the chair away in that one scene in the background, I think he's trying to mentally throw you off just a little bit.
Mariana
01:08:29.947 - 01:08:30.627
It's possible.
Marianna
01:08:30.763 - 01:08:31.251
Movie.
Mariana
01:08:31.315 - 01:08:31.747
Yeah.
Marianna
01:08:31.843 - 01:08:37.987
I just, I, I like to think it's all intentional. But of course, you know, I get it. There is a schedule at the end of the day.
Mariana
01:08:38.043 - 01:08:38.323
Yeah.
Marianna
01:08:38.371 - 01:08:40.019
People do have to eat, you know.
Seth
01:08:40.139 - 01:08:40.755
Yeah.
Marianna
01:08:40.867 - 01:08:46.147
But I just feel like he is trying to throw you off your, like, your foot the whole time.
Mariana
01:08:46.203 - 01:08:46.627
Yeah.
Marianna
01:08:46.723 - 01:08:47.331
So I don't know.
Seth
01:08:47.355 - 01:08:48.439
Yeah. He's.
Mariana
01:08:48.779 - 01:08:59.092
And like I said, it wasn't big enough to make me hate the rest of the movie. I like, the rest of the shots are incredible. So it's like. Yeah. It's just for me, the one thing that I had to complain about. But yeah. Still all work.
Seth
01:08:59.196 - 01:09:03.220
There's so many artisans that do a good job generating like mystique.
Mariana
01:09:03.300 - 01:09:03.604
Yeah.
Seth
01:09:03.652 - 01:09:10.916
In post, like after they die. And like, he's one of the, like Andy Warhol's one of them. Kubrick. Like these people that die. Like, I don't know if I understood that guy.
Mariana
01:09:10.948 - 01:09:11.348
Yeah.
Seth
01:09:11.444 - 01:09:13.220
You know, he's just a complete enigma.
Marianna
01:09:13.300 - 01:09:13.908
Yeah.
Seth
01:09:14.004 - 01:09:17.220
They create enough mystique to where you're questioning stuff you're reading about them.
Mariana
01:09:17.260 - 01:09:17.700
Yeah.
Seth
01:09:17.780 - 01:09:27.268
Like, because I didn't have time, but I was going to read some of the Kubrick. There's some really great biographies. But everyone, everyone on Reddit and stuff is like, it's hard to nail down what's the definitive one.
Mariana
01:09:27.324 - 01:09:27.652
Yeah.
Seth
01:09:27.716 - 01:09:30.964
Because it just depends on what rabbit trail you went down with Kubrick.
Mariana
01:09:31.012 - 01:09:31.284
Yeah.
Seth
01:09:31.332 - 01:09:39.012
To figure out what was true and what was it. And it's like some people really bought into the mystique, you know, and some people, like, would go another way.
So it's hard to say what's definitive.
Mariana
01:09:39.076 - 01:09:39.556
Yeah.
Seth
01:09:39.668 - 01:09:39.956
Yeah.
Marianna
01:09:39.988 - 01:09:46.036
Well, I'm just really glad he didn't have like a tick tock and like, we didn't know more about him because that's the other reason why it works.
Mariana
01:09:46.068 - 01:09:46.276
Yeah.
Marianna
01:09:46.308 - 01:09:48.941
Because I'm like, I don't want to know what he likes to eat.
Mariana
01:09:49.005 - 01:09:49.649
Yeah.
Seth
01:09:50.709 - 01:10:01.529
Yeah. What would be the equivalent to Shelly Duvall today?
Like, he was like Ariana Grande, you know, like, like here's a clip of me screaming at Ariana Grande because we're on our 150th take and she's not doing.
Mariana
01:10:03.349 - 01:10:05.341
She can't say the one line.
Seth
01:10:05.525 - 01:10:09.405
LOL. You imagine Kubrick saying LOL.
Marianna
01:10:09.597 - 01:10:10.141
No.
Seth
01:10:10.245 - 01:10:10.525
Yeah.
Mariana
01:10:10.557 - 01:10:12.013
It's. It's the holding space.
Seth
01:10:12.101 - 01:10:40.790
This Next category. I named it after. After Apocalypse Now. I called it this because one of the biggest arguments about this movie is is it a horror movie or not? And.
And the reason it's a big argument because those who. Who think it's horror, some criticize it heavily. Specifically, I have a quote from David Cronenberg here criticizing the Shining.
He basically said in his critique, he directed it as if he didn't understand the horror genre or he hated the horror genre. Genre.
Marianna
01:10:40.950 - 01:10:42.726
That's great take.
Seth
01:10:42.798 - 01:10:44.518
Yeah, that's what Cronenberg said, so.
Marianna
01:10:44.574 - 01:10:45.654
God, I love Cronenberg.
Seth
01:10:45.702 - 01:10:46.310
Me too.
Mariana
01:10:46.430 - 01:10:47.190
And love it.
Seth
01:10:47.230 - 01:10:49.078
And he has the cred in this area.
Mariana
01:10:49.134 - 01:10:49.606
He does.
Marianna
01:10:49.678 - 01:10:52.358
Yes, he does. But he's a completely different kind of horror director.
Seth
01:10:52.414 - 01:10:53.798
Totally different body.
Marianna
01:10:53.854 - 01:10:56.630
Horror is not the same as any other kind of horror.
Mariana
01:10:56.790 - 01:10:58.262
It's not psychological horror.
Seth
01:10:58.326 - 01:11:00.102
The Fly and this don't intersect.
Mariana
01:11:00.166 - 01:11:47.542
No. Look, I. I feel like you have these directors like Kubrick, like. Like Christopher Nolan, who like taking genres and doing their own thing.
For Christopher Nolan, it's time for. For Kubrick, it's a different thing for every movie. But he puts his own spin on it. He takes these ideas and makes a genre film, but makes it his own.
And so I think this was horror by Stanley Kubrick. I don't think it should or can be compared to most other horror movies. I do think it is a horror movie.
The first time I watched it, genuinely terrified the whole way through. But it's very psychological horror. It has nothing to do with gore. Yeah. There's the one scene of the woman in the bathtub. But, like, it's.
It's not a gory movie. It is just straight mental terror.
Seth
01:11:47.606 - 01:11:49.254
Only one person gets killed in the movie.
Mariana
01:11:49.302 - 01:11:50.054
Yeah. Yeah.
Seth
01:11:50.102 - 01:11:50.406
One.
Mariana
01:11:50.478 - 01:11:55.734
One guy. Yeah. So, no, for me, it's. It's all work because it is 100 a horror movie.
Seth
01:11:55.782 - 01:11:56.726
Yeah. Yeah.
Marianna
01:11:56.758 - 01:12:00.882
I don't know how I feel like now. If it was made now, they would call it like a psychological thriller.
Mariana
01:12:00.946 - 01:12:01.378
Yeah.
Marianna
01:12:01.474 - 01:12:19.154
But at the same time, I watch a lot of thrillers and a lot of horror, but I mostly watch horror in my life. Honestly, it's my favorite category. I would definitely say it's a horror movie because it just. They build the tension so well. And it's not.
It's not thrill. It's not a thrilling thing. You're just like. You're like, I can't breathe.
Mariana
01:12:19.202 - 01:12:19.426
Yeah.
Marianna
01:12:19.458 - 01:12:20.162
I can't.
Mariana
01:12:20.306 - 01:12:21.346
It's stressful.
Marianna
01:12:21.458 - 01:12:27.662
It's so stressful. He's so good at creating stress. And then at the end of it, you're just like, thank God.
Mariana
01:12:27.726 - 01:12:28.370
Yeah.
Marianna
01:12:30.630 - 01:12:43.422
But yeah, I think it's definitely a horror movie. And I, and when people say it's not, I'm kind of want to be like you, just trying to find something wrong with you. Just trying to be difficult.
You know, I, I, Some people just, they critique too much.
Mariana
01:12:43.606 - 01:12:46.190
Movie fans. Be, be difficult. What.
Marianna
01:12:46.310 - 01:12:51.610
I know. That's why I don't normally talk to anybody. I'm like, I'm like, I locked it by.
Seth
01:12:53.440 - 01:13:03.512
What's the. I'm trying to think of. I was thinking.
I love something you said and we've talked about this because you are such a horror fan, but I feel like horror has become the most creative genre lately.
Mariana
01:13:03.576 - 01:13:03.960
Yeah.
Seth
01:13:04.040 - 01:13:13.672
I feel like when I'm. Because, you know, you look at them like you see what's come out in the, like the theaters and I'm just so disappointed most of the time.
There's a handful of movies I want to see now, but most of the ones that interest me are horror.
Mariana
01:13:13.736 - 01:13:13.976
Yeah.
Seth
01:13:14.008 - 01:13:19.336
With a smile. And we have all these really interesting. I just feel like that's where. And they're doing it for low budgets.
Mariana
01:13:19.368 - 01:13:19.846
Yeah.
Seth
01:13:19.968 - 01:13:25.498
And I just feel like that's where the creative nexus is in film. In a film. In a, In a world where we're doing reboots all the time.
Mariana
01:13:25.554 - 01:13:29.002
Yeah. Let me tell you why that's the case, in my opinion.
Seth
01:13:29.066 - 01:13:29.546
Yeah, please.
Mariana
01:13:29.618 - 01:14:08.934
I've had a lot of people who agree with this. Horror is the one genre that forgives mistakes when you're trying to swing for the fences.
If you have a cool concept and you do it 95% perfectly, they will forgive those 5% of mistakes. Because it's horror.
Because there are supposed to be more moments in horror where it, it is a little outside of, of what you would normally think of from a movie. And, and because it allows for those mistakes.
I feel like more and more filmmakers have been trying to do the crazy thing with horror because it just allows for that. So that's why I think there's so many good ones, is because people are actually trying their best with them.
Marianna
01:14:09.022 - 01:14:13.446
And it's also the only genre you can make for a very low budget and make an amazing.
Mariana
01:14:13.558 - 01:14:14.070
Yes.
Marianna
01:14:14.150 - 01:14:21.008
Like, they're my favorite. Horrors are all low budget. Honestly. One person, one room. Those are my favorite.
Mariana
01:14:21.104 - 01:14:21.472
Yeah.
Marianna
01:14:21.536 - 01:14:23.072
Well, I don't know how it works.
Mariana
01:14:23.136 - 01:14:36.208
Yeah, no. Yeah. It's like, it's like we talked about with Upgrade.
He purposefully chose a lower budget because he felt like having too much money would end up ruining the movie because he wanted it to feel low scale, but still high concept.
Marianna
01:14:36.304 - 01:14:36.576
Yeah.
Seth
01:14:36.608 - 01:14:36.912
Yeah.
Marianna
01:14:36.976 - 01:14:42.160
One of the best horror movies ever was one of the Duplass brothers, Mark Duplass. He made Creep.
Mariana
01:14:42.320 - 01:14:44.480
Oh, I've heard of that. When I haven't seen it.
Marianna
01:14:44.520 - 01:14:46.432
Just him in, like, a video camera.
Mariana
01:14:46.496 - 01:14:46.910
Yeah.
Marianna
01:14:47.000 - 01:14:50.866
In the woods. It's one of the scariest movies I've ever seen in my life.
Mariana
01:14:50.938 - 01:14:51.474
Nice.
Seth
01:14:51.602 - 01:14:51.954
Yeah.
Marianna
01:14:52.002 - 01:14:57.698
And now and then there's Creep 2, and then the Creep tapes. And it's just amazing how easy it is.
Mariana
01:14:57.834 - 01:14:58.530
Yeah.
Marianna
01:14:58.690 - 01:14:59.282
Easy.
Mariana
01:14:59.346 - 01:14:59.826
Yeah.
Marianna
01:14:59.938 - 01:15:01.122
With a great concept.
Mariana
01:15:01.186 - 01:15:01.554
Yeah.
Marianna
01:15:01.602 - 01:15:04.786
Because you can create something that's so scary.
Mariana
01:15:04.898 - 01:15:05.282
Yeah.
Seth
01:15:05.346 - 01:15:05.826
Yeah.
Marianna
01:15:05.938 - 01:15:13.714
Because honestly, it's so easy to get scared, too, honestly. Because any time in your life, you could just be sitting in your car and then it can be scary.
Mariana
01:15:13.842 - 01:15:14.322
Right.
Marianna
01:15:14.426 - 01:15:21.742
All of a sudden, somebody just runs up behind your car. Car or a truck just appears and rams your car. Like, anything could be scary.
Mariana
01:15:21.806 - 01:15:22.142
Yeah.
Seth
01:15:22.206 - 01:15:26.590
Yeah, I agree. And I think. I think. I love the term genre bending.
Marianna
01:15:26.670 - 01:15:26.974
Yeah.
Seth
01:15:27.022 - 01:15:38.110
Because I think that applies heavily here. And I think, like, I think about the Witch. Like, Eggers is doing this to me now. Like, when I first heard he was redoing Nosferatu, I was like, yeah.
But then I, like, started seeing the trailer, so I was like, all right, I'm. I'm in.
Mariana
01:15:38.150 - 01:15:38.558
Yeah.
Seth
01:15:38.654 - 01:15:44.734
Like, that guy has blown my mind. Because, like, the Witch is a great movie because, like, you can watch that whole thing and be like. Like, was that because of Ergot?
Mariana
01:15:44.782 - 01:15:45.438
Yeah.
Seth
01:15:45.614 - 01:16:23.520
Like, is that. Is that. Is that the whole thing was Ergot? Maybe. But the whole purpose of horror, like, in its most basic form is to generate discomfort in some way.
And, I mean, I don't know about. If you guys thought about the Shining this way, but one of the most horrific things about it is if. If the. If the hotel is a. The.
It shines and it's predatory. It is. It's violating someone who has struggled with abuse, alcoholism, and it's exploiting that person to accomplish.
Because it wants Danny, because Danny has more Shining than anybody. And they want Danny's power. They want to absorb Danny in the hotel. They. As in the entities that.
Mariana
01:16:23.560 - 01:16:23.824
Yeah.
Seth
01:16:23.872 - 01:16:30.864
Because it's an Indian burial ground and all that. But what's more horrific than that than an entity knowing that he's easily exploitable?
Mariana
01:16:30.912 - 01:16:31.328
Yeah.
Seth
01:16:31.424 - 01:16:34.032
Just with a. With a drink. And we don't even know if he really drank.
Mariana
01:16:34.096 - 01:16:34.336
Yeah.
Seth
01:16:34.368 - 01:16:52.394
Yeah. You're still like, did he actually drink or did they just does the hotel making him feel like he's drunk? But, like, that's horrific. To me. Yeah.
You know, and so that, to me, is genuinely horrific. So I guess it's in the eye of the beholder. But I don't necessarily agree with Cronenberg.
I think just because he didn't do it the way you do it, which I respect Cronenberg.
Mariana
01:16:52.442 - 01:16:52.618
Yeah.
Seth
01:16:52.634 - 01:16:55.738
I respect the. Out of him. But just because he didn't do it your way.
Mariana
01:16:55.794 - 01:16:56.250
Yeah.
Seth
01:16:56.330 - 01:17:00.298
You know, and thank God he didn't do it Stephen King's way. You know, who's.
Mariana
01:17:00.314 - 01:17:00.490
The.
Seth
01:17:00.530 - 01:17:12.876
Who's to say Horror is the most wide genre out there? And you can also put pockets of four. That's why we have sci fi horror with aliens. You know, we have body horror, like you said. We have so many.
There's a. There's a type of horror for everyone.
Mariana
01:17:12.948 - 01:17:13.340
Yeah.
Seth
01:17:13.420 - 01:17:13.756
So.
Marianna
01:17:13.828 - 01:17:14.892
And I like them all.
Mariana
01:17:14.996 - 01:17:15.760
Yeah.
Seth
01:17:16.100 - 01:17:22.988
Yeah. So anyway, I think we nailed that really well, but all work. Yeah, that was a. I thought that would be an interesting discussion to have.
Mariana
01:17:23.044 - 01:17:23.468
Yeah.
Seth
01:17:23.564 - 01:17:30.902
Last one. This category is called Can't Touch this. King went on to make his version.
Mariana
01:17:30.966 - 01:17:31.398
Yeah.
Seth
01:17:31.494 - 01:17:38.934
In 97 with Stephen Weber from Wings to play Jack Nicholson's role. Good move. Yeah. Might as well have gotten Jerry Seinfeld.
Mariana
01:17:38.982 - 01:17:39.254
Yeah.
Seth
01:17:39.302 - 01:17:40.070
Yeah, yeah.
Marianna
01:17:40.150 - 01:17:41.558
That'd be a better pick.
Seth
01:17:41.614 - 01:17:45.958
Yeah, it would be, actually. I could see it, but that'd be way better. I mean, he picked a.
Mariana
01:17:46.014 - 01:17:49.958
What is the deal with these ghosts, Lloyd?
Seth
01:17:50.054 - 01:17:51.238
What are you doing here?
Marianna
01:17:51.294 - 01:17:56.390
I just feel like he could have pulled like, a Robin Williams and been like, whoa, Jerry, sign. Greenfield has.
Seth
01:17:58.130 - 01:18:25.108
Man. Robin Williams would have been wild, though. You just said that. Now I want to see him in everything. Now he's dead because he rip.
There's so much stuff he could have done, seriously. But, yeah, I. It's just wild. And this is King and this category. And I've had a version of this category. It's kind of like a reboot category.
But, like, did King have justification? Did this film. Did he need to go and prove himself to remake it? Or was this too big? Was it too iconic?
Mariana
01:18:25.284 - 01:18:58.062
I think it was too iconic. I think when you have a director like Kubrick, who even at the time was pretty infamous with some of the movies that he'd put out by then. It's. It's.
It's very. Also, especially when you're doing it direct to tv, it's gonna be cheap no matter what.
And you can tell that so much thought was put into literally, simply where the camera was placed. There were certain shots that should have been perfectly symmetrical that he's like, eh, move it. That Way two inches.
Just to make you feel that uneasiness.
Seth
01:18:58.126 - 01:18:58.558
Yes.
Mariana
01:18:58.654 - 01:19:01.230
Just to make you feel like something's a little off.
Seth
01:19:01.270 - 01:19:03.454
Or use that specific camel camera lens.
Mariana
01:19:03.502 - 01:19:03.966
Exactly.
Seth
01:19:03.998 - 01:19:04.430
Yeah.
Mariana
01:19:04.510 - 01:19:31.358
And. And that's something that could never be replicated with tv. You don't have that much time to put that much forethought in.
Everything with TV shooting is just get coverage. Just make sure we've got a wide medium and a close up. And then whatever inserts we have to put in of inanimate objects to tell the story.
With film, and especially with Kubrick, he was able to put the amount of thought into it to make it such an iconic movie.
Seth
01:19:31.454 - 01:19:32.014
Yeah.
Mariana
01:19:32.142 - 01:19:36.238
So are we going no play. As far as it shouldn't.
Seth
01:19:36.334 - 01:19:40.494
Yeah, like he shouldn't have done it. Like it's as it stands today.
Mariana
01:19:40.582 - 01:19:40.894
Yeah.
Seth
01:19:40.942 - 01:19:45.208
Like the story. And obviously you guys haven't read it, but I think I've told you enough about the original. The book.
Marianna
01:19:45.294 - 01:19:46.116
I don't need to read it.
Seth
01:19:46.188 - 01:19:52.996
Yeah, it's not worth it. It's the worst. It's one of the worst King novels. I'm sorry, I get. I get raked over the coals for that. I don't know why I'm pointing the camera.
Mariana
01:19:53.108 - 01:19:54.612
Yeah, another Deftone situation.
Seth
01:19:54.676 - 01:19:56.280
Yeah. Shining.
Mariana
01:19:56.620 - 01:19:58.068
Yeah, it's shining.
Seth
01:19:58.244 - 01:20:02.916
Shining, you jerks. But yeah, I. It's. It's one of the worst.
Mariana
01:20:03.028 - 01:20:03.444
It's.
Seth
01:20:03.492 - 01:20:04.532
It's horrible.
Mariana
01:20:04.596 - 01:20:04.884
Yeah.
Seth
01:20:04.932 - 01:20:05.892
It's just so cheesy.
Marianna
01:20:05.956 - 01:20:14.258
All made for TV movies are. Except for this old French movie called World on a Wire. It's the only made for TV movie that's ever been good in the whole entire history.
Mariana
01:20:14.314 - 01:20:17.250
I heard that the made for TV Dune was actually really good.
Marianna
01:20:17.370 - 01:20:21.842
Oh, I didn't see that. The only Dune I like is Alejandro Jojorowski's Dune.
Mariana
01:20:21.906 - 01:20:24.162
I would love to have seen what he was gonna do with that.
Marianna
01:20:24.186 - 01:20:27.570
Yeah, no, but like, the documentary is the funniest movie I've ever seen.
Mariana
01:20:27.610 - 01:20:28.066
Oh, I've heard.
Marianna
01:20:28.098 - 01:20:36.744
No, I won't watch the new Dune. It looks terrible. I watched a little bit of it. I like the whole cast. I like the look of it. It's just. I think it's for stupid people.
Seth
01:20:36.882 - 01:20:38.380
I'm sorry. I hate it so much.
Marianna
01:20:38.420 - 01:20:38.860
I hate it.
Seth
01:20:38.900 - 01:20:39.372
So sorry.
Mariana
01:20:39.436 - 01:20:41.520
I thought it was so much better than Star Wars.
Seth
01:20:42.580 - 01:20:44.120
I hate Star wars too.
Mariana
01:20:44.580 - 01:20:45.900
Good to know we're all on the same.
Seth
01:20:46.020 - 01:20:47.372
You also. I thought you did like it.
Mariana
01:20:47.396 - 01:20:57.532
No, I think A New Hope is. Is the worst Star wars movie. Yes. I think the best one is the ace one, because I don't even consider it canon.
It's part of the, like, the fan fiction trilogy is what I call it.
Marianna
01:20:57.556 - 01:21:00.636
The only part of Star Wars I like are the Ewoks. And I know that that is a very.
Mariana
01:21:00.708 - 01:21:02.300
That's a very controversial statement.
Seth
01:21:02.420 - 01:21:03.530
I hate them all. All.
Marianna
01:21:03.570 - 01:21:07.434
They're the best. They're the only part that's redeeming. And then Han Solo.
Mariana
01:21:07.482 - 01:21:15.482
Yeah. Yeah. It's fun to watch sometimes. But no, I'm not gonna sit here and act like it's good sci fi. It's B grade sci fi with an A grade budget.
Seth
01:21:15.546 - 01:21:16.218
Yep.
Marianna
01:21:16.314 - 01:21:17.514
That's a perfect description.
Seth
01:21:17.562 - 01:21:18.810
And Lucas is a disaster.
Mariana
01:21:18.890 - 01:21:23.338
That's a whole great idea, man. And a fantastic producer. And he should never write or direct again.
Seth
01:21:23.394 - 01:21:23.722
Yes.
Marianna
01:21:23.786 - 01:21:24.506
Yeah.
Mariana
01:21:24.698 - 01:21:27.418
Love you, George. But this is.
Marianna
01:21:27.474 - 01:21:34.632
This is kind of. My point is, like, so you can be a creative person and make fun things, but they're not necessarily genius. And that's okay.
Mariana
01:21:34.696 - 01:21:34.936
Yeah.
Marianna
01:21:34.968 - 01:21:39.192
But that's how I feel with Stephen King, where I'm like, oh, man, he just bit off way more than he could chew.
Mariana
01:21:39.256 - 01:21:39.672
Yeah.
Marianna
01:21:39.736 - 01:21:57.412
And like, he didn't have the, the.
I don't know what it was that Kubrick had, but he made all these perfect decisions in production quality and timing and how it was done, the length of things. And, you know, he was just really demanding. Which you have to be basically borderline crazy.
Mariana
01:21:57.476 - 01:21:57.812
Yeah.
Marianna
01:21:57.876 - 01:22:07.812
To get all of this accomplished. And then I just don't think that Stanley or Stephen King had like the wherewithal or the outside. I think he was just doing too many drugs.
Mariana
01:22:07.876 - 01:22:08.116
Yeah.
Seth
01:22:08.148 - 01:22:08.404
Yeah.
Marianna
01:22:08.452 - 01:22:09.124
Honestly.
Seth
01:22:09.252 - 01:22:24.060
And Kubrick used to toy with him too. I didn't tell this in the earlier story, but sometimes he would randomly call Stephen King at 3 in the morning. And one time he called him during.
And this was after he rejected his screenplay and said that I'm getting a real American author. He called Stephen King at 3am and said, do you believe in God?
Marianna
01:22:24.400 - 01:22:26.552
Oh, my God, just.
Seth
01:22:26.576 - 01:22:49.744
And he also ran a fake ending by him.
There was this whole ending where Halloin where they were gonna kill Jack and then Hallon would take on the spirit and then kill everybody and then kill himself. He totally just made it up. And he just called Stephen King just to mess with him. Be like, hey, what do you think about this ending? This is so hor.
Like compared to Stephen King's. That is such a horrible derivative of. But I think he just said it to him just to piss him off.
Like, what about this really horrible ending for your book?
Mariana
01:22:49.792 - 01:22:51.664
Look, Stanley Kubrick, the OG troll.
Marianna
01:22:51.712 - 01:22:54.240
I was about to say that he's the original troll.
Mariana
01:22:54.400 - 01:22:55.328
Oh, my God.
Seth
01:22:55.424 - 01:22:56.384
Do you believe in God?
Marianna
01:22:56.432 - 01:23:01.024
I wish we said it at the same time. I was like, original troll, right?
Seth
01:23:01.112 - 01:23:04.640
Yeah. Except this is respectable trolling to do it over the phone.
Mariana
01:23:04.720 - 01:23:05.328
Oh, yeah.
Marianna
01:23:05.424 - 01:23:12.180
I love that he was like that because that's like how I would be, honestly, if I was a man. I would be just like Steven Stanley.
Seth
01:23:13.400 - 01:23:14.912
Stephen Lee Kubrick hotel.
Mariana
01:23:14.976 - 01:23:24.464
Can you imagine getting a phone call at three in the morning and it's Stanley Kubrick going, do you have Prince Albert in a can? You better let him out.
Seth
01:23:24.552 - 01:23:25.216
I love it.
Marianna
01:23:25.288 - 01:23:26.144
That's amazing.
Seth
01:23:26.272 - 01:23:26.848
I love it.
Marianna
01:23:26.904 - 01:23:28.080
That's my favorite fact.
Mariana
01:23:28.200 - 01:23:30.016
Yes. Yeah. That's fantastic.
Seth
01:23:30.128 - 01:23:41.792
Well, I'll round it out. I go all work too. And I think I've seen, I've seen the 97. I've read the book a couple times and I do. I actually think the stand was really well done.
That was like Sinise, what's his name? Gary Sinise. Is that right?
Mariana
01:23:41.816 - 01:23:42.064
Yeah.
Seth
01:23:42.112 - 01:24:06.762
Yeah. That was his big launching point. It actually is pretty good. Yeah. And Randall Flagg is a very interesting. In the Stephen King universe.
Randall Flagg is in all the universes. And he's a very interesting, he's very interesting character. In fact, he's in it somehow. They've worked him in there somehow.
Like, that's a fan theory, I think, but interesting. I, I, I just, I don't understand King's anger. Like, Benchley wasn't pissed at Spielberg.
Mariana
01:24:06.826 - 01:24:07.066
Yeah.
Seth
01:24:07.098 - 01:24:12.524
What he did to Jaws. And he was like, you know, I wouldn't have done it this way. But again, he's an author.
Mariana
01:24:12.612 - 01:24:13.068
Yeah.
Seth
01:24:13.164 - 01:24:21.292
And like the, the hedge maze, animals and all the things that he thought should have been in the movie he put on screen and it looked horrible.
Mariana
01:24:21.356 - 01:24:21.692
Yeah.
Seth
01:24:21.756 - 01:24:30.748
Cheap and dumb. And, and it's funny. In 1980, he's angry at Kubrick for, for doing things and making choices.
And they didn't really even have the technology to do a lot of it.
Mariana
01:24:30.804 - 01:24:31.372
Yeah.
Seth
01:24:31.516 - 01:24:43.470
And I, I just don't like why. Dig your heels in. And it really shows how egotistical King is to, to think, well, he's mad that it's no longer Stephen King's the show.
It's like, well, you wrote a book that launched it. Like, aren't you proud?
Mariana
01:24:43.550 - 01:24:43.854
Yeah.
Seth
01:24:43.902 - 01:24:45.822
And don't you have 300 books?
Mariana
01:24:45.886 - 01:24:46.222
Yeah.
Seth
01:24:46.286 - 01:24:50.686
And 50 TV properties, like, what you're doing? Okay. Bro.
Mariana
01:24:50.758 - 01:24:57.454
Be excited that you inspired one of the greatest filmmakers that's ever existed to make something that was really good.
Seth
01:24:57.542 - 01:24:57.902
Yeah.
Marianna
01:24:57.966 - 01:24:59.182
Yeah. He's so insecure.
Mariana
01:24:59.246 - 01:24:59.806
Yeah, yeah.
Seth
01:24:59.838 - 01:25:19.278
It's a visual medium and he made some of the most iconic images we've seen. And I don't have to go on, but I. This is totally all work because I just, just. I've lost so much respect.
I've read so many Stephen King books in my life and I, I have never read so many novels by a person that I think is mediocre. I don't know why I kept reading them, but I was like, I'll just keep going here.
Mariana
01:25:19.334 - 01:25:19.662
Yeah.
Seth
01:25:19.726 - 01:25:21.982
You know why? It's because they were like $5 at Walmart.
Marianna
01:25:22.046 - 01:25:35.010
Oh. Yeah. Well, that's most of my favorite movies I found that way.
Well, one thing I will say though is I've seen a lot of remakes of Stephen King stories like current, like Gerald's Game and things like that. His really simple ones are great.
Seth
01:25:35.110 - 01:25:35.530
Mm.
Marianna
01:25:35.610 - 01:25:46.314
But I feel like he's probably like plagiarizing somebody else, honestly. Yeah, probably so insecure. I just, I have trouble. I have struggled to believe that he's actually smart enough to like be.
Mariana
01:25:46.482 - 01:25:47.530
I mean, it was the code.
Marianna
01:25:47.610 - 01:25:47.930
Thank you.
Mariana
01:25:47.970 - 01:25:48.602
It was the coke.
Marianna
01:25:48.666 - 01:25:50.506
He was just all on too many drugs.
Mariana
01:25:50.538 - 01:25:50.794
Yeah.
Marianna
01:25:50.842 - 01:25:55.226
Maybe he was too successful. Maybe that was it. You know, they made a lot of money back then.
Mariana
01:25:55.298 - 01:25:55.690
Yeah.
Seth
01:25:55.770 - 01:25:57.418
Yeah. Oh, these writers.
Marianna
01:25:57.514 - 01:25:58.026
Too much.
Mariana
01:25:58.098 - 01:25:58.634
Oh, yeah.
Seth
01:25:58.682 - 01:26:04.362
I know people personally that have sold books for film rights.
Mariana
01:26:04.466 - 01:26:04.874
Yeah.
Seth
01:26:04.922 - 01:26:07.098
And still work a part time job.
Mariana
01:26:07.154 - 01:26:07.434
Yeah.
Seth
01:26:07.482 - 01:26:17.994
Today. Yeah. I'm not saying they're all like that, but there are movies on Netflix by that, by people I know personally that still work.
And these, they're not like, they're not blowing their money on coke.
Mariana
01:26:18.042 - 01:26:18.346
No.
Seth
01:26:18.418 - 01:26:23.066
There are movies on Netflix. They're paying rent and they're still, they're still like working a day job.
Mariana
01:26:23.138 - 01:26:23.434
Yeah.
Marianna
01:26:23.482 - 01:26:23.914
Oh, yeah.
Seth
01:26:23.962 - 01:26:25.418
It's just a different game now, man.
Mariana
01:26:25.474 - 01:26:26.346
Yeah, absolutely.
Marianna
01:26:26.378 - 01:26:28.074
Well, and then the robots are coming.
Seth
01:26:28.162 - 01:26:35.722
Yeah, yeah, yeah. This book was by like a 16 digit number. It's just like a barcode. That's the barcode of the robot who wrote it.
Marianna
01:26:35.746 - 01:26:43.110
You know, I guess once like, you know, they're sentient, then I guess they can read each other's books. But I don't necessarily want to read an AI book yet.
Seth
01:26:43.810 - 01:27:00.124
I just got a hilarious image, probably an AI generated image of a bunch of robots sitting around enjoying each other's books that they've written. Yeah. And they're not excited about the content. Like, I wrote this in 1.4 seconds. Oh, yeah. Well, I, I painted this in 1.9 seconds.
Mariana
01:27:00.172 - 01:27:00.636
Yeah.
Seth
01:27:00.748 - 01:27:18.300
We've got off track no, it's great. I got the Shining. But hey, this was fantastic. 7 0. I loved your opinions, though. I loved something totally. I understand some of the.
The contrarian thoughts there. Awesome. Well, I. This was fun. I'm glad I finally got to cover a movie in my top 10. I'm Kyle.
Marianna
01:27:18.380 - 01:27:19.932
I'm Seth and Mariana.
Seth
01:27:19.996 - 01:27:20.540
Love y'all.
Mariana
01:27:20.620 - 01:27:24.500
See you next time, Movie Wars.